Sold the A3!!!

Track is closed until 5 today.

Tis all foggy.

I'm OLD, older than most people on here I expect. Apart from Ess, I know hes older than me :)

1animal1 - With perfect traction, the open diff and the haldex upgrade does make the car AWD. However the minute traction is lost on the front, it becomes 3 wheel drive, like a fancy reliant robin ;)

With a normal Haldex, the car is FWD until it loses traction then it sends power to the rear, so either RWD (to a degree) to 3 wheel drive again.

So i didnt contradict myself, you just need to understand how the haldex, or upgraded haldex's work.

So far, I've seen all of three English cars here, about 20 English motorbikes and everything else is German.
 
Track is closed until 5 today.

Tis all foggy.

Not so good Dave.
Hope it clears soon.

I'm OLD, older than most people on here I expect. Apart from Ess, I know hes older than me :)

I prefer the term 'more mature'
No, that's not true though... :p


So far, I've seen all of three English cars here, about 20 English motorbikes and everything else is German.

Enjoy it...
I assume you've taken the M3?
 
Did you keep looking?

Went through twice but its crazy busy.

I'm obvious as well, its rather bright is the blue and i was the only bright blue M3 there.
 
Not 'quite' as obvious as your yellow Porsche, but striking (and disgusting) nonetheless!

Got some new found respect for Falken 452s also, performed VERY well considering they are a budget tyre.
 
Oh goodie, the thread's not locked yet.

Dave, like most, I wouldn't disagree that the M3 is the more entertaining to drive but you'll be one of the few on here that feel it's a better car than the S3. Reason being that the main thing that's overlooked in all of these "my car's better than your's" threads is the desirability factor. Its that thing that actually makes us want a particular car and part with our money and buy the thing in the first place. We could run through all the scenarios in which one car is better than the other, but at the end of the day there will be very few S3 owners on here that would want to swap keys. No disrespect, as I like M3s, but what I'm saying is that its a car that most S3 owners could have if they wanted, especially a £5k one, but they don't. Harking on about how much better it is than an S3 is going to fall on deaf ears. Just IMO.
 
Chris - you're 100% correct.

The Audi thing is brand snobbery, I kinda fell into Audi's as it presented itself to me instead of a VW GTI, but there is a LOT of badge snobbery involved with owning an Audi, be it your own personal position or peer acceptance.

I myself hated the BMW image, and really didnt ever want one, however, driving one changed all that and I disregarded the image thing.

However, if you are in any way biased because of image, the S3 is a nicer car to own. If you want to drive the ultimate driving machine, then I suppose you'd have the BMW and sell crack in your spare time :)
 
I think you mis-understood me. When I say desirability, I mean the overall package. Both cars have their merits - the S3 has a better interior, better all weather handling, nicer to look at; and the M3 is better to drive, better feedback through the steering wheel, better balanced, etc.

However, most people want various different things from thier cars and in general the S3 ticks more boxes. Most people live with their cars day to day so all out performance isn't the only consideration.

For example, Glen might say his Porsche is better than an RS4....
 
Just back from the pub..hic!
I'm with Dave hes still the man,doing the Ring and tinterneting along the way.....hats off I salute you whether the Audi is better than the Beemer I believe beauty beholder jobby..hic
 
i agree with everyone and everything..... easier that way:hi:

How you doing for times Dave........
 
Got some new found respect for Falken 452s also, performed VERY well considering they are a budget tyre.

How do you find them in the wet? I'm running a set of Falken Ze512 at the moment and I can't wait to wear them out and replace with something else. Great in the dry, but shockingly bad in the wet.
 
I replaced my old 330ci tyres with 452's and for a cheap-ish tyre they was excellent both dry and wet,loads better than the pirelli's that was on there.
 
have also got 452's on and really cant fault them for the money!
 
1animal1 - With perfect traction, the open diff and the haldex upgrade does make the car AWD. However the minute traction is lost on the front, it becomes 3 wheel drive, like a fancy reliant robin ;)

With a normal Haldex, the car is FWD until it loses traction then it sends power to the rear, so either RWD (to a degree) to 3 wheel drive again.

So i didnt contradict myself, you just need to understand how the haldex, or upgraded haldex's work.
According to the Haldex company, near 100% torque transfer is capable to the rear axle when, for instance, the front wheels are on Ice. The power is transferred when a rotational speed difference between the front and rear axle is detected, should this speed difference be constant (If the wheels are different dimensions, weight distribution) then the rear wheels will be driven nearly constantly, so not technically FWD until traction is lost. Also Haldex have said that at a constant speed typically 10 - 15% of power is transferred to the rear wheels.

:blackrs4: beep beep
 
Well your all wrong my S3 is the bestest car ever it can do a loop the loop @ 83 MPH in the wet and still maintain 55 MPG !!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I thought the haldex was on the rear axle.
How does it disengage power to the front wheels?
 
so not technically FWD until traction is lost.

Yes it is FWD until traction is lost and then the haldex does send power/torque to the rear but will still be wasting power spinning the front wheels.
Yes it is possible to send alot more torque to the rear if the front wheels are spinning on ice but how long will it take for the rear wheels to be on the ice too.
 
james, i understand what you are picking up on here, although i do still think your missing the point...... the power will go to the back when traction is lost at the front....what are the chances of all four wheels losing traction, especially as the more wheels spinning means more of the cars weight bearing down on it..... the original haldaex convo about it being more affective than 2wd with LSD is stil flawed and always will be (assuming thats what your getting at)
 
According to the Haldex company, near 100% torque transfer is capable to the rear axle when, for instance, the front wheels are on Ice. The power is transferred when a rotational speed difference between the front and rear axle is detected, should this speed difference be constant (If the wheels are different dimensions, weight distribution) then the rear wheels will be driven nearly constantly, so not technically FWD until traction is lost. Also Haldex have said that at a constant speed typically 10 - 15% of power is transferred to the rear wheels.

My point is that a statement which says
"The power is transferred when a rotational speed difference between the front and rear axle is detected"

and then goes onto say
"so not technically FWD until traction is lost"

What else can it be???
 
actually...several things as the thread has gone from pillar to post so many times lol
 
I think we need to understand that the power doesn't just transfer the power to the back when traction is lost at the front. when theres is a difference of 15 degrees in rotational speeds between the front and rear axle, then the Haldex will kick in, as it's programmed to think that it's slipping. The Haldex also works on throttle position also, with the Haldex engaging by the position of your DBW throttle, so full throttle = 100% Haldex engagement, so 50:50 drive between front and rear axles. Uprated Haldex controller has the benefit of locking the Haldex fully on part to maximum throttle, which basically means it will do the Haldex thing first before the power is transmitted to the transmission, but that's another thread.

Hope that clears it all up, now where is Dave, hope he hasn't ended up in a ditch somewhere, being RWD and all..... :racer:
 
cheers jojo, needed someone who knew what they were on about..... i was thinking the same about him lol
 
My point is that a statement which says
"The power is transferred when a rotational speed difference between the front and rear axle is detected"

and then goes onto say
"so not technically FWD until traction is lost"

What else can it be???

Well since power is almost constantly put out to the back wheels I wouldnt call it FWD until traction is lost. Saying that indicates that the haldex ONLY comes on when traction is lost, thats not true, the haldex engages when there is a rotational speed difference... For instance if you have slightly different sized wheels on the two axles or an uneven weight distribution (say more weight over the front wheels). As I said above Haldex have said that 10 - 15% is transferred typicall during cruising and has been designed for this purpose, indicating that the haldex works almost constantly and not just when traction is lost, as it was designed also to lower temperature of driveline components.
 
Saying that indicates that the haldex ONLY comes on when traction is lost, thats not true, the haldex engages when there is a rotational speed difference...

I'm sorry, but the 15% speed difference only occurs when the front wheels are spinning!

Theres no two ways about it, I love the S3, but you cannot deny that it is essentially front wheel drive until the front wheels start slipping, at which point the back wheels get power.

Go drive one to find out, it's just like a FWD!
 
I've driven a few prawn, when your cruising I find it difficult to believe you'd be able to identify the back wheels being powered when your steadily cruising at 70mph. That 10 - 15% I quote is on an email i read from the Haldex company themselves. I feel like i'm telling the people the world isnt flat :superman:
 
So in a normal fast getaway from the traffic lights or a junction in the dry or wet which wheels get the power when you first put your foot down?
 
So in a normal fast getaway from the traffic lights or a junction in the dry or wet which wheels get the power when you first put your foot down?

If you plant the throttle down to max when pulling off, like launching the car, then you will get power to all 4 wheels with a 50:50 split between front and rear axles, as the haldex would be engaged 100%. If you do a brisk pulloff with say 50-75% throttle, then I would have though it would use the 15degree rotation difference as a sign of slippage, then the Haldex will engage, so a slight delay(hardly noticeable) before the rear wheels gets drive.
 
doing the Ring and tinterneting along the way.....

Gotta say thats kinda sad, when I go to Germany (or any trip/holiday) I stay away from computers

The very fact Dave has been coming on to defend the car makes him just as sad and blinkered as he see's 99% of Audi drivers

Anyway Dave, enjoy your car, not my cuppa tea but if I do see you at the Ring or at a TrackDay here in England Ill be sure to give you a wave as you go past me
 
Theres no two ways about it, I love the S3, but you cannot deny that it is essentially front wheel drive until the front wheels start slipping, at which point the back wheels get power.

Go drive one to find out, it's just like a FWD!

Cant agree with that more, throw it round a roundabout properly and with a sniff of liftoff the car becomes just as unsettled as a french hatchback
 
So in a normal fast getaway from the traffic lights or a junction in the dry or wet which wheels get the power when you first put your foot down?

As jojo has said and I said earlier, when you plant your foot weight is shifted and the difference causes the haldex to transfer more of the power than if you were cruising normally. You wont notice when the 4 wheels get more or less power, but thats the whole point, if you did notice it could make you drive differently and could cause accidents.
Yes Grathies the car handles worse than a fat hooker but I was trying to clarify some of the misunderstandings about haldex as everyone instantly says "Its crap" without knowing how it works, just think its silly to jump on the bandwagon without finding out how something works first.
 
I have driven quite a few S3's and in every one i have been able to spin the front wheels on a fast getaway(although only for a very short period)before the rears got involved,which to me is "crap".
Give me permanent 4wd anyday.
 
I'm sorry, but the 15% speed difference only occurs when the front wheels are spinning!

Theres no two ways about it, I love the S3, but you cannot deny that it is essentially front wheel drive until the front wheels start slipping, at which point the back wheels get power.

Go drive one to find out, it's just like a FWD!

Not true at all.

I got my S3 when I still had my K03sport golf running fwd about 230hp.

Totally different car in every situation, the golf could light its front up all the time, lift of oversteer as it has a beam rear axle and big arb, the s3 drove nothing like it. S3 was ballistic out of junctions, wet or dry, just drop the clutch. Handled totally differently due in no small part to the independant rear suspension.

ANY 4wd car will drive like a 2wd car until an wheel slips. Drive an old landrover up the road at 30mph in the dry, it feels like any 2wd car at same speed.
So ANY 4wd car only comes into its own when traction of some form is lost, that is the whole point of it.

Having 4wd of any sort allows more torque and power to be transmitted to the road without losing traction, as it is split ebtween two axles.

If anyone actually cares if an s3 or tqs or r32 /4mo is 4wd, or 4wd when traction is lost, well it IS 4wd. You can tell this by putting one on a two post ramp and starting it up, putting it in gear and letting out the clutch..........you will see all 4 wheels turning, ie being driven, all at the same speed all at the same rate, not "slip" or loss of traction.

The difference in the split betwen the axles is not power, or speed, (generally although the haldex alters its clutch effect when these parameters do kick in), the main difference is the torque transmitted to the rear axle is generally lower than the front, and in crusie, no slip driving, (not accelerating) it is pretty mcuh 10% rear torque, 90% front.

As you accelerate, and the engine power and more importantly torque incrase, the torque transfered to the rear increases. The haldex controller makes the rate of transfer of this torque vary depending on many many factors including traction, wheel speed difference, rate of torque increase, total torque being produced by the motor, and trottle position / rate of change of throttle position. The haldex perfomance controller merely increases the amount of time that more of the torque than the stock 10% is transfered to the rear. It still takes all the inputs, but transfers more torque in more situations.

I have not bothered with a haldex controller as I find the stock system perfectly adequate on my car. Mind you I have a far higher torque figure to stock, the throttle potentiometer has been recalibrated during the remap, and this has reduced whgat was a discernable "shunt" as torque was trasfered tl the abck end before the engine mods.

But anyone who thinks it does not work is wrong. The system does work, it's extremely clever and bearing in mind 99% of drivers never managed to unstick a car on big fat modern tyres, the benefits of lower drag and transmission losses in most situations far outweigh an extremely short "delay" that 99% of people would never even notice nor care about!
My car runs 330hp, 350ftlb, with sorted suspension and decent tyres and is in a different league traction and handlingwise to my 230hp, 240lbft FWD golf. The S3 is extremely planted, hadly ever gets outs of shape, and accelleration and traction from the apex of a roundabout in wet or dry just takes the pxxs out of 99% of the machinery out there on the roads!

FWD is fun enough my golf was ahoot to drive and great fun and very quick on track, but it was loose, and most corners on track were just one big 100mph slide. Traction off chicanes and hairpins was poor, compared to the S3 which still slides but nowhere near as much and wil give on the mereest of chirps of the tyres when side stepping the clutch at 4500 revs in first! !!

So toally different systems, but even if the haldex knockers who say its fwd until traction is lost are correct (and they aint!), why does that cause any problems!! ??

An Evo is 0wd when it is parked up in a car park..........the argument is about as relevent!
 

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