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Karls 3.0 TDI build thread

desertstorm Dec 7, 2013

  1. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Don't update this thread much these days as I don't do much to the car spend all my time tatting with the TT. The car has been uber reliable but did have an issue with it the other week after I noticed wet patches on the drive. Turned out to be diesel leaking from the extra diesel pump I fitted to help keep the fuel pressure up.
    On the CAPA with the CP3 pump there is an in tank pump delivering fuel to the injection pump. On the CCWA the intank pump delivers fuel to a 5 bar electric pump that then passes the fuel onto the injection pump.
    The extra pump I fitted was a generic Ebay item thats been on there a few years and now seems to be leaking from the crimped joint on the end of the body. So initially I removed the extra pump to see how the car went. Drives fine 99% of the time but found it very occasionally went into limp mode with low fuel pressure, not the best when you are half way past somebody overtaking them.
    Doing some logging on VCDS. The actual pressure cannot follow the specified closely at high RPM and large injection amounts. I actually had it go into limp mode when I was doing a logging run. It seems if actual lags specified by 200 bar it will go into limp mode.
    Normal injection pressure on a CAPA is 1600 Bar. Mine is mapped to 1800 Bar. This log without the extra pump.

    fuel pressure no pump.JPG

    Decided to buy a secondhand pump off a 2.0 TDI B8 with the CP4 pump, the same pump as used on CCWA engines. Cheap enough at £30 and it fits perfectly as it's designed to fit where the filter is.
    8K0906095B

    DSC_3497.JPG

    Done some testing tonight and normal service is resumed :) . No limp mode even when running car to the red line through the gears :) .
    Actual pressure doesn't always meet specified but it's a lot closer so won't go into limp mode now.

    Fuel pressure with pump.JPG
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2018
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  3. Natebrand1987

    Natebrand1987 Registered User

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    they have prob missed some lesser known maps and failed to understand their functions.

    a stock capa can do 105iq at 1800bar no problem with these maps adjusted.

    i had the same issue on mine until i started testing them , and found good results ....

    now i can inject 130iq at 1900bar on any cp3 build if smoke isnt an issue for the customer.

    i logged 60-100 in 3.8seconds the other day in 4th only .... i need a dyno
     
  4. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    TBH never had an issue really with lack of fuel when the car was mapped. The car is mapped conservatively as I asked for no more than 750Nm and didn't want it smoking too much, a grey haze is as bad as I want it really.
    Took it to Rockingham GTI international today and picked up another fastest diesel trophy, 4th in 4 years. They are running an 1/8th mile track and fastest time I managed was 4.77s 0-60 with a 8.347 1/8th mile time.

    DSC_3713.JPG

    DSC_3715.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  5. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Well done Karl
     
  6. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Cheers Bobby,
    Went back to Rockingham on the Sunday in the TT but kept an eye on what was going on with the diesels. Darkside ran an SQ5 that looked very trick with air ride suspension.

    DSC_3716.JPG

    DSC_3717.JPG

    Ran a faster 0-60 than me but pretty much all the cars were running faster times on Sunday morning than they had done on Saturday as a lot of rubber had gone down. Didn't help me only running in the afternoon as at around 2pm it was it's hottest. And he has a nice auto box to change gears quickly.

    DSC_3718.JPG

    It was a little slower than me overall probably due to the extra weight and less aerodynamic shape.

    DSC_3719.JPG

    The guy in third place was in a 1.6TDI that was Darkside tuned running 230 odd bhp.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
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  7. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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    I should really make time for these events.
    Didn’t Ryan run the yellow Asora?
     
  8. DieselJake

    DieselJake Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    Nice one Karl, I need to go an event none of you guys or Darkside attend so I can get fastest diesel haha :icon thumright:
     
  9. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    He did run the Arosa but I think the DC class is for production diesel cars, not 1/4 mile special cars. I did see it run a low 3 second 0-60 but he was saying it doesn't run well on surfaces that have poor grip. When it's at the pod with it's super sticky surface it can use all the power.
    He did run it on the portable dyno they had at the show ,

    DSC_3723.JPG
    I think it made around 500bhp but they were having issues with the dyno. They only had a 16A supply and the dyno was having problems providing enough load on the electromagnetic brake that the dyno uses.
     
  10. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    On Sunday I was out in my TT on the National circuit. Can't believe how well it went, never got overtaken all the time I was on the track and overtook loads of people. Really surprised me.
    Heres a Harry's lap timer video of my fastest lap.
     
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  11. TimberVD

    TimberVD Registered User

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    Just out of curiosity Karl, how did you hook up the pump? Is the electrical connector there even on CAPA engined cars? If not, where did you take the feed from?
     
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  13. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    The connector isn't there on a CAPA car. I took the feed from an ignition switched supply off the fuse box on the drivers side. I used a relay that was powered from the in tank pump supply. So when ever the in tank pump is running the relay is switched on. This then feeds power to the extra pump.
     
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  14. Tosh26

    Tosh26 Registered User

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    I’m thinking about doing this brake mod also. Am I right in thinking all I need is these brake callipers from the parts request page on here and a set of 345mm disc’s off an s4 b8 (my car is a 3.0 tdi a4 on a 58 plate) and a set of brake pads for a Q5??

    Thanks in advance


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  15. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Hi, Yes all you need is the calipers . They bolt straight on. Any 345mm disc for the S4 will work. The brake pads are the same profile as several models of the Subaru Imprezza and EVO so I used the Red stuff pads from Car Parts for less with the discount there are around £100.
    93052012R
    Try the parts request on here it's run by Crewe Audi now, but It was originally run by Mike who I use these days . He is the parts manager at Lister Seat in Worcester.
    https://www.facebook.com/RPSPECIALISTS/
    01905 346808
     
  16. Tosh26

    Tosh26 Registered User

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    That’s great thanks for the help. I’ve got mtec drilled and grooved on at the minute but managed to warp them? Got picked up on the mot. So was thinking if I need new disc’s I might as well upgrade lol was thinking of going black diamond with yellow stuff pads but do you think the red stuff will be better?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  17. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    I had Yellow stuff pads on my Passat and they were quite dusty and didn't really work much better than the red stuff pads. Red stuff are ECE90 so work like OE pads when cold. I have red stuff all round on my A4 and use them on the rear of my TT track car.
     
  18. Tosh26

    Tosh26 Registered User

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    That sounds good enough for me then thanks I’ve got brembo pads on at the min they was really dusty to begin with till then bedded in but not too bad now.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  19. Tosh26

    Tosh26 Registered User

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    Just having a look at the pads for the sti and the ones for the q5. The q5’s are 131.7 x 77.4 x 15.7mm and the Sti’s are 131 x 75 x 15mm does the difference in size make any difference? Or will they still fit? Will it make them noisy with them being slightly smaller??

    Thanks


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  20. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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  21. Tosh26

    Tosh26 Registered User

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    That’s great I’ll get some ordered thanks for all the help


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  22. Tosh26

    Tosh26 Registered User

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    Sorry to be a pest lol I’ve just ordered the brembo callipers now I’m looking at the discs are these the right ones for my b8?

    Thanks Tony

    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  23. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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  24. Tosh26

    Tosh26 Registered User

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    That’s great only thing is I’ve already got drilled and grooved on the back so might look a bit odd but I could always get the back discs to match at a later date lol thanks Tony


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  25. barkclark

    barkclark Registered User

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    Hi Karl.
    I have ordered the smoother 059129629A TIP off ebay, of which you say looks to possibly gain 5/6 bhp at 2k over the original. Further still, did creating the bigger and smoother custom intake / turbo damper removal yield any gains on its own?
    I also removed the airbox butterfly flap about 2 years ago and felt the difference everyone else reported. You also discovered airflow increased about 10% lower down with it. Did tests reveal if any bhp was gained from that mod?

    Cheers

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
     
  26. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    I never did any back to back tests on a dyno to see if power was increased but airflow improvements mean more power. I don't actually think the bigger smooth intake makes any difference at lower RPM but is probably worth a few bhp right at the top end.
     
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  27. barkclark

    barkclark Registered User

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    Smashing thanks for the reply

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
     
  28. chisharpe

    chisharpe Registered User

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    Where did you get the metal pipe from Karl?
     
  29. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Its a 90deg bend in aluminium with a 22mm connection welded on for the breather.
     
  30. chisharpe

    chisharpe Registered User

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    Thank you bobby. I plan to see you very soon. will drop you an email when ready:icon thumright:
     
  31. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    On my car the intake is a 78mm stainless pipe with a 22mm pipe welded on for the connection. I use a Bi TDI MAF which is larger than the standard MAF.
    https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/karls-3-0-tdi-build-thread.204785/page-8#post-2469123
    The bend was something like this.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/76mm-3-i...-Stainless-Steel-1-5D1-5mm-Wall/132105415790?
    you don't really need to replace the intake unless your fit a larger turbo. Spend the money on a decent intercooler setup . Bobby is a top man for tuning these.
     
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  32. chisharpe

    chisharpe Registered User

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    Thank you.

    I’ve already got intercooler dpf delete and back boxes removed. Hybrid is something I’m considering at the moment. But surely a larger tip would help anyway just like it does on the tt?
     
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  34. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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    If you are coming to me to get this work, then you don’t need to hunt for parts.
    I keep all you need for 420 to 430hp in stock.

    You should also note i only now tune my own hybrids. I’ve had bad experiences with poorly built units that cause nothing but pain for tuning.

    I don’t want to pollute Karls thread - drop me a mail:

    BobbySinghRacing@outlook.com

    Cheers
     
    Horia likes this.
  35. SteWatson

    SteWatson Registered User

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    Hi Karl,

    Great thread, its helped me lot, i've pretty much copied your build to be honest. I've used Rick @ unicorn a few times we all take our cars to him.

    I'm really struggling getting my head round the extra fuel pump, i've searched the internet and found information but not enough where i feel comfortable fitting it. Can you help? Pictures? Diagrams? Fitting? ha ha

    This is my last hurdle then i can fit 4 bar and bitdi Maf and give my car to Rick.

    Thanks

    Steve
     
  36. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Hi Steve,
    The pump used on any of the CP4 cars can be used which is the 2.0 TDI cars and the later CP4 engines, I bought one similar to this with the foam spacers. Part number is 8K0906095B
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original...uel-Pump-Diesel-Pump-8K0906095B/173760545547?
    The pump is located before the filter if you look at the layout of the fuel filter and pump on a later car you can see there is plenty of room for the pump to fit.
    https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/b8-2-o-tdi-fuel-filter-location.162412/
    As for the wiring I tapped the fuse for the rear in tank pump ST2 SC3.


    Fuel pump wiring CAPA.JPG

    That is fuse 3 on ST2
    FUEL PUMP FUSE LOCATION FUSE 3 ST2.JPG
    Use a Fuse tap, something like this they are standard size fuses.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-Car-P...-Standard-Blade-Fuse-Holder-12V/293175756013?
    The tapped line connects to a 30-40A relay and you need to pick up an ignition switched supply to feed the new pump.
    Wiring is something like this.
    relay wiring.JPG

    What spec turbo so you have and what kind of power are you looking for?.
     
  37. SteWatson

    SteWatson Registered User

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    Hi Karl thanks for the information if I can’t figure it from that i’ll get someone to do it for me.

    This is what the turbo said:
    Upgraded to GT2267/71 updated 360deg large pad thrust bearing, GTX Billet extended tip compressor wheel. Someone claimed to make 404 using this turbo and to be honest I’m happy with it. We’ll what it really does on Ricks dyno

    I’m looking for 370-380 bhp 700-750nm
    I have the bitdi intercooler, 4bar map, bitdi MAF and larger intake pipe. And the inline pump you suggested

    The only other things I’ve done is bitdi front brakes (356mm twin pot) H&R springs, stainless brake and clutch line, removed the delay valve and oil catch can. Only had her a few months though
     
    desertstorm likes this.
  38. SteWatson

    SteWatson Registered User

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    Dpf and exhaust
     
  39. SteWatson

    SteWatson Registered User

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    Hi Karl, I’m really sorry if I’m spoiling what is a great thread. But.......

    So the fuse tap plugs into fuse 3 of st2, so is this instead of ‘red fuel pump wire’ (86)?
    Then another fused connection to live, like the positive under the bonnet? Or central locking etc. Or have I got this wrong. Once I’ve got this cracked I think the car is ready for Rick. Will just have to install the 4bar and maf before I go down on the day.

    Thanks again and sorry for the hijack

    Steve
     
  40. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Yes the fuse tap into fuse 3 on ST2 and run that wire to the relay coil which is the "red fuel pump wire" on the diagram. And a fused 30 amp feed from the battery or the main distribution point under the bonnet.
     
    SteWatson likes this.
  41. SteWatson

    SteWatson Registered User

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    Karl, thank you, I owe you a beer! Think we’re finally at a point where I understand. Relay should be here tomorrow. Order a new fuel filter to as figured I may as well swap it out while I’m down there. From google it says with the CAPA engine, I shouldn’t need to do anything to prime the pump etc using Vag-Com etc and should be good to go.

    You’ve been great, I hope you take me up on that beer

    Thanks Steve
     
  42. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    I would cycle the ignition a few times after changing the filter etc before you try and start it. Also forgot to say that the 4 bar MAP and MAF should not be installed before the car is mapped. You need to take the car to Ricks and swap the parts there. The BI TDi MAF is larger than the OE MAF do you have the correct size pipes?.
     
    Misikee likes this.
  43. SteWatson

    SteWatson Registered User

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    Ok will do that, is there a specific way to do that on the Audi?
    Ok I’ll do it at Ricks, the MAP sensor looks a little awkward to get to.
    I’ve got the larger intake pipe from Darkside so should be good to go
     

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