Karls 3.0 TDI build thread

desertstorm

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Don't update this thread much these days as I don't do much to the car spend all my time tatting with the TT. The car has been uber reliable but did have an issue with it the other week after I noticed wet patches on the drive. Turned out to be diesel leaking from the extra diesel pump I fitted to help keep the fuel pressure up.
On the CAPA with the CP3 pump there is an in tank pump delivering fuel to the injection pump. On the CCWA the intank pump delivers fuel to a 5 bar electric pump that then passes the fuel onto the injection pump.
The extra pump I fitted was a generic Ebay item thats been on there a few years and now seems to be leaking from the crimped joint on the end of the body. So initially I removed the extra pump to see how the car went. Drives fine 99% of the time but found it very occasionally went into limp mode with low fuel pressure, not the best when you are half way past somebody overtaking them.
Doing some logging on VCDS. The actual pressure cannot follow the specified closely at high RPM and large injection amounts. I actually had it go into limp mode when I was doing a logging run. It seems if actual lags specified by 200 bar it will go into limp mode.
Normal injection pressure on a CAPA is 1600 Bar. Mine is mapped to 1800 Bar. This log without the extra pump.

fuel pressure no pump.JPG


Decided to buy a secondhand pump off a 2.0 TDI B8 with the CP4 pump, the same pump as used on CCWA engines. Cheap enough at £30 and it fits perfectly as it's designed to fit where the filter is.
8K0906095B

DSC_3497.JPG

Done some testing tonight and normal service is resumed :) . No limp mode even when running car to the red line through the gears :) .
Actual pressure doesn't always meet specified but it's a lot closer so won't go into limp mode now.

Fuel pressure with pump.JPG
 
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Natebrand1987

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they have prob missed some lesser known maps and failed to understand their functions.

a stock capa can do 105iq at 1800bar no problem with these maps adjusted.

i had the same issue on mine until i started testing them , and found good results ....

now i can inject 130iq at 1900bar on any cp3 build if smoke isnt an issue for the customer.

i logged 60-100 in 3.8seconds the other day in 4th only .... i need a dyno
 

desertstorm

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TBH never had an issue really with lack of fuel when the car was mapped. The car is mapped conservatively as I asked for no more than 750Nm and didn't want it smoking too much, a grey haze is as bad as I want it really.
Took it to Rockingham GTI international today and picked up another fastest diesel trophy, 4th in 4 years. They are running an 1/8th mile track and fastest time I managed was 4.77s 0-60 with a 8.347 1/8th mile time.

DSC_3713.JPG

DSC_3715.JPG
 
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desertstorm

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Cheers Bobby,
Went back to Rockingham on the Sunday in the TT but kept an eye on what was going on with the diesels. Darkside ran an SQ5 that looked very trick with air ride suspension.

DSC_3716.JPG

DSC_3717.JPG

Ran a faster 0-60 than me but pretty much all the cars were running faster times on Sunday morning than they had done on Saturday as a lot of rubber had gone down. Didn't help me only running in the afternoon as at around 2pm it was it's hottest. And he has a nice auto box to change gears quickly.

DSC_3718.JPG

It was a little slower than me overall probably due to the extra weight and less aerodynamic shape.

DSC_3719.JPG

The guy in third place was in a 1.6TDI that was Darkside tuned running 230 odd bhp.
 
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desertstorm

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I should really make time for these events.
Didn’t Ryan run the yellow Asora?
He did run the Arosa but I think the DC class is for production diesel cars, not 1/4 mile special cars. I did see it run a low 3 second 0-60 but he was saying it doesn't run well on surfaces that have poor grip. When it's at the pod with it's super sticky surface it can use all the power.
He did run it on the portable dyno they had at the show ,

DSC_3723.JPG

I think it made around 500bhp but they were having issues with the dyno. They only had a 16A supply and the dyno was having problems providing enough load on the electromagnetic brake that the dyno uses.
 

TimberVD

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Don't update this thread much these days as I don't do much to the car spend all my time tatting with the TT. The car has been uber reliable but did have an issue with it the other week after I noticed wet patches on the drive. Turned out to be diesel leaking from the extra diesel pump I fitted to help keep the fuel pressure up.
On the CAPA with the CP3 pump there is an in tank pump delivering fuel to the injection pump. On the CCWA the intank pump delivers fuel to a 5 bar electric pump that then passes the fuel onto the injection pump.
The extra pump I fitted was a generic Ebay item thats been on there a few years and now seems to be leaking from the crimped joint on the end of the body. So initially I removed the extra pump to see how the car went. Drives fine 99% of the time but found it very occasionally went into limp mode with low fuel pressure, not the best when you are half way past somebody overtaking them.
Doing some logging on VCDS. The actual pressure cannot follow the specified closely at high RPM and large injection amounts. I actually had it go into limp mode when I was doing a logging run. It seems if actual lags specified by 200 bar it will go into limp mode.
Normal injection pressure on a CAPA is 1600 Bar. Mine is mapped to 1800 Bar. This log without the extra pump.

View attachment 153649

Decided to buy a secondhand pump off a 2.0 TDI B8 with the CP4 pump, the same pump as used on CCWA engines. Cheap enough at £30 and it fits perfectly as it's designed to fit where the filter is.
8K0906095B



Done some testing tonight and normal service is resumed :) . No limp mode even when running car to the red line through the gears :) .
Actual pressure doesn't always meet specified but it's a lot closer so won't go into limp mode now.

Just out of curiosity Karl, how did you hook up the pump? Is the electrical connector there even on CAPA engined cars? If not, where did you take the feed from?
 

Tosh26

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desertstorm

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Hi, Yes all you need is the calipers . They bolt straight on. Any 345mm disc for the S4 will work. The brake pads are the same profile as several models of the Subaru Imprezza and EVO so I used the Red stuff pads from Car Parts for less with the discount there are around £100.
93052012R
Try the parts request on here it's run by Crewe Audi now, but It was originally run by Mike who I use these days . He is the parts manager at Lister Seat in Worcester.
https://www.facebook.com/RPSPECIALISTS/
01905 346808
 

Tosh26

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Hi, Yes all you need is the calipers . They bolt straight on. Any 345mm disc for the S4 will work. The brake pads are the same profile as several models of the Subaru Imprezza and EVO so I used the Red stuff pads from Car Parts for less with the discount there are around £100.
93052012R
Try the parts request on here it's run by Crewe Audi now, but It was originally run by Mike who I use these days . He is the parts manager at Lister Seat in Worcester.
https://www.facebook.com/RPSPECIALISTS/
01905 346808

That’s great thanks for the help. I’ve got mtec drilled and grooved on at the minute but managed to warp them? Got picked up on the mot. So was thinking if I need new disc’s I might as well upgrade lol was thinking of going black diamond with yellow stuff pads but do you think the red stuff will be better?


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Tosh26

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I had Yellow stuff pads on my Passat and they were quite dusty and didn't really work much better than the red stuff pads. Red stuff are ECE90 so work like OE pads when cold. I have red stuff all round on my A4 and use them on the rear of my TT track car.

That sounds good enough for me then thanks I’ve got brembo pads on at the min they was really dusty to begin with till then bedded in but not too bad now.


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Tosh26

Registered User
Just having a look at the pads for the sti and the ones for the q5. The q5’s are 131.7 x 77.4 x 15.7mm and the Sti’s are 131 x 75 x 15mm does the difference in size make any difference? Or will they still fit? Will it make them noisy with them being slightly smaller??

Thanks


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Tosh26

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That’s great only thing is I’ve already got drilled and grooved on the back so might look a bit odd but I could always get the back discs to match at a later date lol thanks Tony


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barkclark

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Hi Karl.
I have ordered the smoother 059129629A TIP off ebay, of which you say looks to possibly gain 5/6 bhp at 2k over the original. Further still, did creating the bigger and smoother custom intake / turbo damper removal yield any gains on its own?
I also removed the airbox butterfly flap about 2 years ago and felt the difference everyone else reported. You also discovered airflow increased about 10% lower down with it. Did tests reveal if any bhp was gained from that mod?

Cheers

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barkclark

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I never did any back to back tests on a dyno to see if power was increased but airflow improvements mean more power. I don't actually think the bigger smooth intake makes any difference at lower RPM but is probably worth a few bhp right at the top end.
Smashing thanks for the reply

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chisharpe

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Small mod in anticipation of the hybrid and a remap. Looking around at several of the more powerful 3.0 TDI cars with the hybrids they have fitted larger intake pipes.
The standard one I think is good for 240bhp but with potentially 50% more power that will probably be having an effect.

The intake pipe is 78mm stainless, and instead of tapering down to 57mm and then feeding into the silencer at the front of the turbo where the crankcase breather is. I have used a 45 degree silicon reducer to go from 78mm to 57mm this makes the transition from the large pipe a lot more gradual and I can now hear a bit of induction roar as well.
The original intake silencer fitted to the car

IMG_3446_zpsjloeqcb3.jpg~original


How it looks with the reducer on the end of the pipe

IMG_3526_zpsu3luxj5l.jpg~original


The stainless pipe with the crankcase vent pipe welded on

IMG_3521_zpslf8vxaer.jpg~original


How it looks fitted

IMG_3627_zpsl6ssfecm.jpg~original


Decided to paint it black and try and make it look as OE as possible

IMG_3529_zpswa78fnd8.jpg~original


Karl.

Where did you get the metal pipe from Karl?
 

desertstorm

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On my car the intake is a 78mm stainless pipe with a 22mm pipe welded on for the connection. I use a Bi TDI MAF which is larger than the standard MAF.
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/karls-3-0-tdi-build-thread.204785/page-8#post-2469123
The bend was something like this.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/76mm-3-i...-Stainless-Steel-1-5D1-5mm-Wall/132105415790?
you don't really need to replace the intake unless your fit a larger turbo. Spend the money on a decent intercooler setup . Bobby is a top man for tuning these.
 

chisharpe

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On my car the intake is a 78mm stainless pipe with a 22mm pipe welded on for the connection. I use a Bi TDI MAF which is larger than the standard MAF.
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/karls-3-0-tdi-build-thread.204785/page-8#post-2469123
The bend was something like this.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/76mm-3-i...-Stainless-Steel-1-5D1-5mm-Wall/132105415790?
you don't really need to replace the intake unless your fit a larger turbo. Spend the money on a decent intercooler setup . Bobby is a top man for tuning these.

Thank you.

I’ve already got intercooler dpf delete and back boxes removed. Hybrid is something I’m considering at the moment. But surely a larger tip would help anyway just like it does on the tt?
 

bobby singh

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Thank you.

I’ve already got intercooler dpf delete and back boxes removed. Hybrid is something I’m considering at the moment. But surely a larger tip would help anyway just like it does on the tt?

If you are coming to me to get this work, then you don’t need to hunt for parts.
I keep all you need for 420 to 430hp in stock.

You should also note i only now tune my own hybrids. I’ve had bad experiences with poorly built units that cause nothing but pain for tuning.

I don’t want to pollute Karls thread - drop me a mail:

BobbySinghRacing@outlook.com

Cheers
 

SteWatson

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The connector isn't there on a CAPA car. I took the feed from an ignition switched supply off the fuse box on the drivers side. I used a relay that was powered from the in tank pump supply. So when ever the in tank pump is running the relay is switched on. This then feeds power to the extra pump.

Hi Karl,

Great thread, its helped me lot, i've pretty much copied your build to be honest. I've used Rick @ unicorn a few times we all take our cars to him.

I'm really struggling getting my head round the extra fuel pump, i've searched the internet and found information but not enough where i feel comfortable fitting it. Can you help? Pictures? Diagrams? Fitting? ha ha

This is my last hurdle then i can fit 4 bar and bitdi Maf and give my car to Rick.

Thanks

Steve
 

desertstorm

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Hi Steve,
The pump used on any of the CP4 cars can be used which is the 2.0 TDI cars and the later CP4 engines, I bought one similar to this with the foam spacers. Part number is 8K0906095B
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original...uel-Pump-Diesel-Pump-8K0906095B/173760545547?
The pump is located before the filter if you look at the layout of the fuel filter and pump on a later car you can see there is plenty of room for the pump to fit.
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/b8-2-o-tdi-fuel-filter-location.162412/
As for the wiring I tapped the fuse for the rear in tank pump ST2 SC3.


Fuel pump wiring CAPA.JPG


That is fuse 3 on ST2
FUEL PUMP FUSE LOCATION FUSE 3 ST2.JPG

Use a Fuse tap, something like this they are standard size fuses.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-Car-P...-Standard-Blade-Fuse-Holder-12V/293175756013?
The tapped line connects to a 30-40A relay and you need to pick up an ignition switched supply to feed the new pump.
Wiring is something like this.
relay wiring.JPG


What spec turbo so you have and what kind of power are you looking for?.
 

SteWatson

Registered User
Hi Steve,
The pump used on any of the CP4 cars can be used which is the 2.0 TDI cars and the later CP4 engines, I bought one similar to this with the foam spacers. Part number is 8K0906095B
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original...uel-Pump-Diesel-Pump-8K0906095B/173760545547?
The pump is located before the filter if you look at the layout of the fuel filter and pump on a later car you can see there is plenty of room for the pump to fit.
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/b8-2-o-tdi-fuel-filter-location.162412/
As for the wiring I tapped the fuse for the rear in tank pump ST2 SC3.


View attachment 189284

That is fuse 3 on ST2
View attachment 189285
Use a Fuse tap, something like this they are standard size fuses.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-Car-P...-Standard-Blade-Fuse-Holder-12V/293175756013?
The tapped line connects to a 30-40A relay and you need to pick up an ignition switched supply to feed the new pump.
Wiring is something like this.
View attachment 189286

What spec turbo so you have and what kind of power are you looking for?.


Hi Karl thanks for the information if I can’t figure it from that i’ll get someone to do it for me.

This is what the turbo said:
Upgraded to GT2267/71 updated 360deg large pad thrust bearing, GTX Billet extended tip compressor wheel. Someone claimed to make 404 using this turbo and to be honest I’m happy with it. We’ll what it really does on Ricks dyno

I’m looking for 370-380 bhp 700-750nm
I have the bitdi intercooler, 4bar map, bitdi MAF and larger intake pipe. And the inline pump you suggested

The only other things I’ve done is bitdi front brakes (356mm twin pot) H&R springs, stainless brake and clutch line, removed the delay valve and oil catch can. Only had her a few months though
 

SteWatson

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Dpf and exhaust
 

SteWatson

Registered User
Hi Karl, I’m really sorry if I’m spoiling what is a great thread. But.......

So the fuse tap plugs into fuse 3 of st2, so is this instead of ‘red fuel pump wire’ (86)?
Then another fused connection to live, like the positive under the bonnet? Or central locking etc. Or have I got this wrong. Once I’ve got this cracked I think the car is ready for Rick. Will just have to install the 4bar and maf before I go down on the day.

Thanks again and sorry for the hijack

Steve
 

SteWatson

Registered User
Yes the fuse tap into fuse 3 on ST2 and run that wire to the relay coil which is the "red fuel pump wire" on the diagram. And a fused 30 amp feed from the battery or the main distribution point under the bonnet.

Karl, thank you, I owe you a beer! Think we’re finally at a point where I understand. Relay should be here tomorrow. Order a new fuel filter to as figured I may as well swap it out while I’m down there. From google it says with the CAPA engine, I shouldn’t need to do anything to prime the pump etc using Vag-Com etc and should be good to go.

You’ve been great, I hope you take me up on that beer

Thanks Steve
 

desertstorm

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I would cycle the ignition a few times after changing the filter etc before you try and start it. Also forgot to say that the 4 bar MAP and MAF should not be installed before the car is mapped. You need to take the car to Ricks and swap the parts there. The BI TDi MAF is larger than the OE MAF do you have the correct size pipes?.
 

SteWatson

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I would cycle the ignition a few times after changing the filter etc before you try and start it. Also forgot to say that the 4 bar MAP and MAF should not be installed before the car is mapped. You need to take the car to Ricks and swap the parts there. The BI TDi MAF is larger than the OE MAF do you have the correct size pipes?.

Ok will do that, is there a specific way to do that on the Audi?
Ok I’ll do it at Ricks, the MAP sensor looks a little awkward to get to.
I’ve got the larger intake pipe from Darkside so should be good to go
 
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