Tuning 101?

[Shady0808]

Hi all,
I'm looking into tuning my S3 for the first time. I've never tuned a car before and don't know a great deal about it. I get the basics like a remap, exhausts, better air intake and the different stages. There's so many different companies like AMD, APR and Revo to name a few.

Just thinking can we have a sticky thread detailing what tuning you can get done by which companies, what they consist of, what gains you can expect to get and how much you can expect to pay? Sorry if there is already a thread like this somewhere but I have searched and didn't find one that detailed like I suggested.

Thanks in advanced!

 

[voorhees]

https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/power-mods-specs-remapper-and-graphs.279013/

 

[Shady0808]

https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/power-mods-specs-remapper-and-graphs.279013/

I've seen that thread. Be better if it had prices?

 

[paddy]

Go off down to AMD as you are in Essex and get a stg1 put on it and see how you get on. You may find that apart from a CAI thats all you need to do, it will give you 300bhp which is a lot for a small car.

 

[prt57]

I have an APR stage 2+ map on my S3 and I am very happy with it as a generic map. My son had a RTech stage 2+ Custom map on a TTS and that did produce higher output figures as it is specific to the hardware of the car.
As a custom mapper you will not find better than RTech in my view. They mapped my 1.8t and it has not missed a beat in 52,000 miles since.

 

[Shady0808]

Go off down to AMD as you are in Essex and get a stg1 put on it and see how you get on. You may find that apart from a CAI thats all you need to do, it will give you 300bhp which is a lot for a small car.

Yea been thinking that. CAI? Cold Air Intake? Which one would I get? I was looking at getting the ENGINE CARBON CLEAN too. If I got the stage 1 would I need to replace any other parts?

I have an APR stage 2+ map on my S3 and I am very happy with it as a generic map. My son had a RTech stage 2+ Custom map on a TTS and that did produce higher output figures as it is specific to the hardware of the car.
As a custom mapper you will not find better than RTech in my view. They mapped my 1.8t and it has not missed a beat in 52,000 miles since.

Cool I'll check out RTech

 

[prt57]

Revo for the intake and RTech for the walnut clean and injector service before the remap - all part of a package.

 

[ch1z64]

Like you i am new to mapping but i took the plunge and the response off the car is amazing , so i would do the Carbon Clean ( depending on age , milage and how hard it has been driven ) and as far as i am lead to believe you can do a St1 with just Stock parts .
A good CAI ( ITG ) + if your looking at a exhaust upgrade , i think the lads on here will vouch for the lads @BCS Nige as they do an awesome powervalve turboback with sportcat so with that you would be able to go St2 .

 

[Shady0808]

Revo for the intake and RTech for the walnut clean and injector service before the remap - all part of a package.

I'll check that out, thanks mate.

Like you i am new to mapping but i took the plunge and the response off the car is amazing , so i would do the Carbon Clean ( depending on age , milage and how hard it has been driven ) and as far as i am lead to believe you can do a St1 with just Stock parts .
A good CAI ( ITG ) + if your looking at a exhaust upgrade , i think the lads on here will vouch for the lads @BCS Nige as they do an awesome powervalve turboback with sportcat so with that you would be able to go St2 .

Ok cool I'll look into this too. My car is 61 plate 2011 so 7 years this September, done 45k miles.

What's the deal with exhausts now too what with the MOT tests changed so that they are more restrictive on emissions?

 

[leshkin]

Have a look at this TFSI tuning guide for ideas on engine mods - http://r-techperformance.co.uk/2-0-tfsi-tuning/

Also don't forget that tuning is not exclusive to just engine - these cars benefit massively from a decent coilover set, uprated anti roll bars, bushes, etc Then there are brakes - braided lines, uprated pads/disks or maybe big brake kits with high performance brake fluid to tie it all together.

I always thought that (360-370bhp) Stg2+ with supporting chassis and brake mods is ideal for a S3 that is used on the road - anything more than that is just pushing the drive train further than it can handle and over time you will end up chewing through CV joints, transfer cases and maybe even gearboxes.

 

[Shady0808]

Have a look at this TFSI tuning guide for ideas on engine mods - http://r-techperformance.co.uk/2-0-tfsi-tuning/

Also don't forget that tuning is not exclusive to just engine - these cars benefit massively from a decent coilover set, uprated anti roll bars, bushes, etc Then there are brakes - braided lines, uprated pads/disks or maybe big brake kits with high performance brake fluid to tie it all together.

I always thought that (360-370bhp) Stg2+ with supporting chassis and brake mods is ideal for a S3 that is used on the road - anything more than that is just pushing the drive train further than it can handle and over time you will end up chewing through CV joints, transfer cases and gearboxes.

I have just been reading that. Closest RTech place to me is Nuneaton, 125 miles away, 2.5 hour drive :-( . They look like they know what they are talking about though. Yea I want to make sure if I get anything done then I have uprated parts to prevent excessive wear.

 

[S.]

Like you i am new to mapping but i took the plunge and the response off the car is amazing , so i would do the Carbon Clean ( depending on age , milage and how hard it has been driven ) and as far as i am lead to believe you can do a St1 with just Stock parts .
A good CAI ( ITG ) + if your looking at a exhaust upgrade , i think the lads on here will vouch for the lads @BCS Nige as they do an awesome powervalve turboback with sportcat so with that you would be able to go St2 .

In my opinion stage 2 is pointless. Gains over stage 1 are minimal for the price.
Get the stage 1 and enjoy it. CAI and exhaust are not needed for it. If you wish to upgrade you can do it later.

 

[leshkin]

I have just been reading that. Closest RTech place to me is Nuneaton, 125 miles away, 2.5 hour drive :-( . They look like they know what they are talking about though. Yea I want to make sure if I get anything done then I have uprated parts to prevent excessive wear.

Yup! Great guys and know their stuff, plus the results are second to none. I'm just west of London and it's still a fair drive, but it is worth it. They have people coming from all parts of the country, so 2.5 hour drive is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Shady0808]

In my opinion stage 2 is pointless. Gains over stage 1 are minimal for the price.
Get the stage 1 and enjoy it. CAI and exhaust are not needed for it. If you wish to upgrade you can do it later.

Yea I think I'll get a stage 1 and a CAI. Just a matter of what brand / company really.

Yup! Great guys and know their stuff, plus the results are second to none. I'm just west of London and it's still a fair drive, but it is worth it. They have people coming from all parts of the country, so 2.5 hour drive is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Ok cool. You think they could sort me out then if I was to do a day trip. Get all their recommended upgrades done for a stage 1 and have it done?

By the way just watched this, looks good and hope to get mine checked like that:

 

[paddy]

I agree with Sam
Just go to stg1 and see, i think you will find that's all you need. It will transform the car.
A generic AMD or REVO map will be fine. You don't need a custom map since your car has generic parts. Custom maps are fine if you are using a variety of upgraded parts that you are trying to get to work together but as your car is essentially std, a generic map will be fine. I ran REVO stg 1 for 65k miles with no issues. I now run a generic stg2+ and have 381BHP which is better than a lot of custom maps.
You don't need a CAI for stg1 or a walnut clean at 45k miles TBH
My guess is you will be cost conscious so AMD is your local shop, go and have a chat with them and remember its not really about peak figures on a chart, its about how it feels on the road.
If you go for a CAI its more about looks and noise at stg1. A revo will have fitting issues and it takes its air from inside the engine bay and will cost £300.
A VWR will fit, its quiet, it looks better and takes its air from outside the engine bay but cost twice as much. You pays your money and makes your choice

 

[prt57]

My son’s TTS had a Walnut clean at 42,000 miles. I thought that it would not need it but we saw the build up when the inlet manifold was removed and the build up was surprising. At the same time, the injectors were serviced. One was well below the other three regarding flow. After ultrasonic cleaning etc all four were running as new again. Dodgy injectors have been shown to cause piston problems. So I think it is worth having it checked out as many people who think they will just have a stage 1 tune eventually go further and you need to know that your hardware is up to it.

 

[paddy]

One other point about Generic maps.
I think all maps start as generic, there is probably no difference between a generic R-tech map that is then run up on the rollers and fine tuned to your car or say an APR map from QST that is then run up on the rollers and fine tuned to your car. My S3 had 7 runs on the Dyno with adjustments between each run when the APR was installed to create a good curve on the graph.
That said most revo centers will not have a dyno which is why i say revo is fine for stg1 but you you need to use a specialist with a dyno for stg2 and above.

 

[prt57]

One other point about Generic maps.
I think all maps start as generic, there is probably no difference between a generic R-tech map that is then run up on the rollers and fine tuned to your car or say an APR map from QST that is then run up on the rollers and fine tuned to your car. My S3 had 7 runs on the Dyno with adjustments between each run when the APR was installed to create a good curve on the graph.
That said most revo centers will not have a dyno which is why i say revo is fine for stg1 but you you need to use a specialist with a dyno for stg2 and above.

My understanding from when my S3 has its APR stage 1+ then 2+ maps at VRS Performance is that the person flashing the map selects the version of the map to be installed by the equivalent of ticking the hardware options installed on the car.
After flashing the software, my car went on the dyno to produce the graphs and then a road test to check all OK. I do not think it had any fine tuning so please can you tell us more.

 

[paddy]

I think you are now being pedantic because if the map is adjusted to suit the hardware on the car at the time its basically a custom map
to suit your set up whether you do it by box selection or manual adjust. Given the fact that adjusting one thing with probably affect a dozen others it make sense to have pre programed options on a map or a custom map would take days to get right. the fact that companies like APR have already spent those days/weeks/months/ setting up all possible options of hardware before hand implies that "custom" maps must have some sort of similar pre install.
Look at my sig ? its a pretty std mix of hardware that works fine with a "generic APR" map in fact its actually running a bog std factory cat back at the moment. More importantly its not the peak power its the steady climb through the rev range with no drop off over 5k, right up to 7k that is important, a lot of people here seem to be impressed by peak figures shown as a blip or peaking out at 5-6k.

 

[ab1702]

I think you are now being pedantic because if the map is adjusted to suit the hardware on the car at the time its basically a custom map
to suit your set up whether you do it by box selection or manual adjust. Given the fact that adjusting one thing with probably affect a dozen others it make sense to have pre programed options on a map or a custom map would take days to get right. the fact that companies like APR have already spent those days/weeks/months/ setting up all possible options of hardware before hand implies that "custom" maps must have some sort of similar pre install.
Look at my sig ? its a pretty std mix of hardware that works fine with a "generic APR" map in fact its actually running a bog std factory cat back at the moment. More importantly its not the peak power its the steady climb through the rev range with no drop off over 5k, right up to 7k that is important, a lot of people here seem to be impressed by peak figures shown as a blip or peaking out at 5-6k.

You’re absolutely right paddy. I had my 170tdi quattro mapped at a custom remappers and he could have done it without putting it on the dyno. I had a stage 1 installed as I have no mods.
Basically these guys spend their time to create the maps themselves in house and then they will save them for future use rather than paying to use revo or apr maps.

When someone like me turns up with a standard car and they have done the checks beforehand then they just flash the map to the car that they have previously created. Then it’s Upto the customer whether they choose to have it put on the dyno or not, I personally did as I wanted to see for myself the actual results. It had a few runs on the dyno so I’m guessing he must have tweaked a few things but I don’t know.
When someone turns up with mods or maybe has requests like they want torque capping etc then that’s when the live tuning on the dyno comes into it but they do start from a map that they already have saved that they have previously created themselves in house.
Like you said if they started from scratch every time and wrote a totally brand new map every time then I’m guessing they wouldn’t get much work done.

 

[Daveyonthemove]

Or you would pay a huge sum of cash for the development time.

 

[ch1z64]

My St1 map was done without a Dyno and you can defo tell it has been mapped the pick up is quicker , smoother and the response is excellent .

 

[leshkin]

Yea I think I'll get a stage 1 and a CAI. Just a matter of what brand / company really.


Ok cool. You think they could sort me out then if I was to do a day trip. Get all their recommended upgrades done for a stage 1 and have it done?

By the way just watched this, looks good and hope to get mine checked like that:

Niki and team at RTech are well known for their very thorough pre and post map checks. If you have a problem with the engine they will find it and might even be able to resolve it there and then.

It's probably more correct to refer to a "stage" as a package of hardware modifications that have been found to compliment eachother, plus an ECU map that is designed to make use of the air and fuel flow these mods offer together.

All of Niki's maps are all custom for individual car. He has base maps that are intended to offer safe running conditions for a common combination of modifications, but it's a start. Every car he maps (Stg1 or a big turbo) all start out with a base map that he then tweaks over the course of a tuning session on the dyno to make sure that the power delivery is smooth and progressive, and most importantly, safe. He might adjust the ignition timing or requested boost levels at various rpm to maximise power and limit stress on the components. In my case, my BCS Powervalve is resonated and had a cat on it at the time, so he reduced the boost at peak to limit heat build-up as he was not seeing more power with the extra boost. There is a lot of work that goes into in a good custom map and I've seen him mess about with fuel injection timing while monitoring things like long and short fuel trims to make sure my RS3 injectors were not fouling too much... Hell, he's the only tuner I've seen that got a stethoscope out to listen to the engine for any micro-detonations while on the car was on dyno!

Anyway, if you go to RTech, you won't be sorry. Best bang for buck tuning you can get and service is excellent too! He'll spend as much time as you need to go over what you want out of the car and then the same once the car is mapped... I wish we had more like him in the community.