phil miller
Registered User
In the boot drivers side is the CCM, ive had one before doing just this and it had water ingress, replaced it and it was bang on
Mysterious battery drain - 1.4A with car locked!
- Thread starter bentwenty
- Start date
I've finally had a chance to have a go at it, I pulled all the fuses suggested, these were the results;
Baseline current draw is anything from 1.18 to 1.24 with everything connected and the car locked.
The only fuses that make any difference were
Fuse 16 dropped it to just over 0.4 (slowly over a 20s period after locking)
Fuse 15 dropped it to about 1.08 immediately.
Fuse 27 dropped it to 1.16 immediately.
Combined they would drop it down to a normal ish current.
I am getting sick of jumping it every morning, so I have it booked into my trusted VAG indie for Thursday (dropping it off Wednesday evening).
Unless we can solve it before then, I will present them with all of my findings and see what they can done.
I don't like doing it as I'm on a tight budget, and don't like giving up on things (and enjoy the learning involved with faults like this), but unfortunately my life is a bit too busy to get to the bottom of it!
Baseline current draw is anything from 1.18 to 1.24 with everything connected and the car locked.
The only fuses that make any difference were
Fuse 16 dropped it to just over 0.4 (slowly over a 20s period after locking)
Fuse 15 dropped it to about 1.08 immediately.
Fuse 27 dropped it to 1.16 immediately.
Combined they would drop it down to a normal ish current.
I am getting sick of jumping it every morning, so I have it booked into my trusted VAG indie for Thursday (dropping it off Wednesday evening).
Unless we can solve it before then, I will present them with all of my findings and see what they can done.
I don't like doing it as I'm on a tight budget, and don't like giving up on things (and enjoy the learning involved with faults like this), but unfortunately my life is a bit too busy to get to the bottom of it!
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pluves1
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I've read that sometimes the cable can draw power even though laptop is not connected. So if you're trying to rule out things I'd be disconnecting the cable to see if that makes a difference. I take it you're not disconnecting this when doing the tests so as its something that's not normally on the car I'd be disconnecting it when testing for power drain.
I didn't know that, thanks. I know normally it should be disabled when the car is locked, which I have been doing for the tests.
The car is with a garage now and I have a courtesy car as I need a car for work. I don't like the feeling of giving up!
I popped down to the garage last night, they asked me to disconnect all my modifications so they had a blank slate to diagnose. It was heartbreaking snipping all they wires that I spent hours putting in, but I did it.
They seem to think there is some current draw or some occurrence that is preventing the car from going fully to sleep.
They also noticed that the back light behind the hazard light switch and the back light behind the coming home light switch are both on all the time.
I have a feeling it's going to take a while to get to get tot he bottom of this!
They seem to think there is some current draw or some occurrence that is preventing the car from going fully to sleep.
They also noticed that the back light behind the hazard light switch and the back light behind the coming home light switch are both on all the time.
I have a feeling it's going to take a while to get to get tot he bottom of this!
I thought I'd read about this problem before ... http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/please-help-strange-battery-drain.63387/
FINALLY! I know whats wrong, and it's a good'un! And the solution is not clear to me right now, so any help would be much appreciated!
The garage have found (after a week), that unplugging my climate control module stops the current draw. I am trying to work out if the unit I fitted is faulty (it functions perfectly), or is simply incompatible.
I retrofitted the climate control module a month or two ago (exactly when the problem started occurring) to add heated seat functionality, full details here http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...s-without-a-kufatec-loom.232852/#post-2350355
The upshot is my original unit was 8P0 820 043 B 5PR (2003 double DIN without heated seats), I fitted 8P0 820 043 AB 5PR (2006 single DIN with heated seats) it is wider so I filed off some plastic to make it fit.
The parts department at Audi couldn't confirm if it is faulty or simply incompatible, the closest they could find to an equivalent new revision was 8P0 820 043 AF 5PR, but this is a single DIN, and they weren't sure if it is compatible (it was also £550+VAT!!!!!!!!).
What I need to know if there is version of 8P0 820 043 B 5PR with heated seats that is compatible, and then get my hand on one. OR if the one I have is faulty, and therefore replace it with a compatible version.
If the one I have is compatible and faulty, there is a reasonable chance that between myself and my colleagues, we can fix it (I am an electronics engineer).
Otherwise I need to know the pin out for my existing unit, so I can put a 12V realy in the power feed so it turn off with the ignition, I am very close to doing this option, but I I can replace the unit properly, I would like to try.
Many thanks as always!
Ben
The garage have found (after a week), that unplugging my climate control module stops the current draw. I am trying to work out if the unit I fitted is faulty (it functions perfectly), or is simply incompatible.
I retrofitted the climate control module a month or two ago (exactly when the problem started occurring) to add heated seat functionality, full details here http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...s-without-a-kufatec-loom.232852/#post-2350355
The upshot is my original unit was 8P0 820 043 B 5PR (2003 double DIN without heated seats), I fitted 8P0 820 043 AB 5PR (2006 single DIN with heated seats) it is wider so I filed off some plastic to make it fit.
The parts department at Audi couldn't confirm if it is faulty or simply incompatible, the closest they could find to an equivalent new revision was 8P0 820 043 AF 5PR, but this is a single DIN, and they weren't sure if it is compatible (it was also £550+VAT!!!!!!!!).
What I need to know if there is version of 8P0 820 043 B 5PR with heated seats that is compatible, and then get my hand on one. OR if the one I have is faulty, and therefore replace it with a compatible version.
If the one I have is compatible and faulty, there is a reasonable chance that between myself and my colleagues, we can fix it (I am an electronics engineer).
Otherwise I need to know the pin out for my existing unit, so I can put a 12V realy in the power feed so it turn off with the ignition, I am very close to doing this option, but I I can replace the unit properly, I would like to try.
Many thanks as always!
Ben
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Anyone local to Gloucester that wouldn't mind me testing my unit in their car?
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Perfect, thanks! How do the references on that drawing tie in with the pin assignments on the connectors on the back?
According to that document, I want my relay to interrupt '30', what connector and pin is that? From memory the connectors are A, B, C & D.
Ben
30 is battery (+).
Outside the control module you see many wires connections. Near everyone there is a corresponding letter and number of the connector and pin.
For example from line 30 power goes to F4/F6 fuse, then to F16 fuse, and then to connector B pin 12.
Outside the control module you see many wires connections. Near everyone there is a corresponding letter and number of the connector and pin.
For example from line 30 power goes to F4/F6 fuse, then to F16 fuse, and then to connector B pin 12.
Perfect, thanks! The assignment con b pin 12 is what I was after, were you able to find that out from that drawing? The module only has connector and pin assignments on it.
Ben
RIght back at the beginning of this I thought you said you had taken out the mods you made to put the seats in. Reading that thread it seems it wasn't straight forward and a module from a later car it's complicating matters.
Looking at ETKA if I read it correctly the part number for the correct AC panel is 8L0820043J.
Is that correct ?.
There are likely to me functional differences between the part you have and the one above.
There are several on Ebay but they all appear to be in Europe.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-A3-S...481092822?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item4189949ed6
Karl.
Looking at ETKA if I read it correctly the part number for the correct AC panel is 8L0820043J.
Is that correct ?.
There are likely to me functional differences between the part you have and the one above.
There are several on Ebay but they all appear to be in Europe.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-A3-S...481092822?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item4189949ed6
Karl.
RIght back at the beginning of this I thought you said you had taken out the mods you made to put the seats in. Reading that thread it seems it wasn't straight forward and a module from a later car it's complicating matters.
Looking at ETKA if I read it correctly the part number for the correct AC panel is 8L0820043J.
Is that correct ?.
There are likely to me functional differences between the part you have and the one above.
There are several on Ebay but they all appear to be in Europe.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-A3-S...481092822?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item4189949ed6
Karl.
I thought I had, I didn't consider the climate control unit to be a mod, so I discounted it in my mind.
That part number you gave can't be correct, I have an 8P. I can understand the confusion as its registered on an 03 plate, so is one of the very first produced.
Thinking about it, it seems pretty likely that the unit I have is faulty rather than incompatible, the part number for the original one is 8P0 820 043 B 5PR, the one that is causing the issues is 8P0 820 043 AB 5PR. Audi were pretty confident that the extra A in the part number simply denotes the heated seats, meaning they are roughly equivalent.
For your reference, this is what the two units look like side by side.
I have unplugged con D (which has the power connectors), I will see if it's dead tomorrow, and also measure the current with/without it.
I will then either install the relay, or try and fix this one.
Ben
My bad about the parts number as you say your car is an early 8p.
I don't think Audi are correct in there assumption that the extra A means it has heated seats. The module you are trying to fit is physically bigger and a different format from a later car.
There are loads of AC module part numbers 220mm , 230mm single double DIN.
http://www.partsbase.org/audi/audi-...itioning-system-climatronic/#p-aud-8p0820043b
I think the part you wanted was 8P0820043C or G, At least it looks to be the same size with heated seats on, and has very similar options.
Karl.
I don't think Audi are correct in there assumption that the extra A means it has heated seats. The module you are trying to fit is physically bigger and a different format from a later car.
There are loads of AC module part numbers 220mm , 230mm single double DIN.
http://www.partsbase.org/audi/audi-...itioning-system-climatronic/#p-aud-8p0820043b
I think the part you wanted was 8P0820043C or G, At least it looks to be the same size with heated seats on, and has very similar options.
Karl.
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If you look at the option codes associated with the unit
http://vag-codes.info/files/options/vag-option-codes.pdf
Apart from the seat heat options 4A0 means no heating 4A3, 4A4 is heating, the rest are related to nav or not and the kind of radio in the car. The original you have seems specific to the Symphony radio. You can get issues by mixing modules designed to work with other specific modules. Don't know if this is related to your problem but you would have been better off with a C or G part number in the first place.It could just be in this case the symphony is a narrower radio hence it's a physical size constraint.
Are the other radio systems in the A3 wider than the symphony ? is that why they have 220-230mm width units ?
Karl
http://vag-codes.info/files/options/vag-option-codes.pdf
Apart from the seat heat options 4A0 means no heating 4A3, 4A4 is heating, the rest are related to nav or not and the kind of radio in the car. The original you have seems specific to the Symphony radio. You can get issues by mixing modules designed to work with other specific modules. Don't know if this is related to your problem but you would have been better off with a C or G part number in the first place.It could just be in this case the symphony is a narrower radio hence it's a physical size constraint.
Are the other radio systems in the A3 wider than the symphony ? is that why they have 220-230mm width units ?
Karl
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That's quite alright, easily done with this car!
The parts guy at Audi wasn't sure that that was the case with the P/N but we agreed that it would make logical sense.
I got around the physical dimension issue by filing the edges off it... I guess the differences were more than that!
I have found a G revision on the bay http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=390878672221,
I haven't seen any of the C revision.
Is it worth my while buying it at £68? Is there a reasonable chance it will fix my issue.
I am also aware that there may be other underlying issues that I am not aware of with this one fitted.
I will still fit the relay tomorrow as a stop gap, and probably buy the one linked above as a (hopefully) permanent solution. Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Ben
Yes, I have the symphony 2 double DIN, there, all the single DIN units are wider as far as I know.
Looks like that G revision may be the one to get.
TBH I suspect the problem is the wiring to the seats from the AC module may not be correct, It could however also be the module.
Does the battery still go flat when the seats are disconnected? Could you not refit the original module.
There are too many possibilities.
If you look back at the fuses supplied by that one you identified earlier fuse 16 looks to be the main power feed for the module and there was a good drop in current when that was disconnected.
Is there a fault code on the air quality sensor G238 ? is this at all related ?
Put the original unit back and see if all the codes are clear and if the car is taking less current.
Karl.
Does the battery still go flat when the seats are disconnected? Could you not refit the original module.
There are too many possibilities.
If you look back at the fuses supplied by that one you identified earlier fuse 16 looks to be the main power feed for the module and there was a good drop in current when that was disconnected.
Is there a fault code on the air quality sensor G238 ? is this at all related ?
Put the original unit back and see if all the codes are clear and if the car is taking less current.
Karl.
I have ruled out the wiring by snipping all the heated seat wiring I added at the climate control end (at the request of the garage), and unplugging it at the seat end, it still drains the battery with the climate control module plugged in.
I have had the air quality sensor error since I got the car over a year ago. It existed with both the original on and new new one. I have been told that it is something of nothing and not to worry, but is that the case?
Unfortunately don't have the old one, but the garage have proved that disconnecting the module drops the current draw to a normal level, I will prove this tomorrow.
I am very close to buying the unit I linked on eBay, but I don't want to waste my money on it if it is likely to cause the same issue.
Ben
If the fault was pre existing and not causing an issue then as you say don't worry about that.
It's a pity you don't have the original.
I have attached the wiring diagram for the AC. It may be worth trying to see if you can track down the issue assuming it's not the AC unit.
Karl.
It's a pity you don't have the original.
I have attached the wiring diagram for the AC. It may be worth trying to see if you can track down the issue assuming it's not the AC unit.
Karl.
hollows wife
Registered User
i told you to resolder the board near the canbus chip , this should restore comms . we have seen a few like this and it seems to be poor soldering . once the solder is re-flowed it corrects it , if youre an electronics engineer it should be no problems to you .
I will have a look tomorrow, thanks
I'll have a look at the boards for dry joints and anything generally amiss.
TBH, I think it would be very unlike VAG to make a revision of the unit so functionally similar that it in fact works fully, but has that one flaw.
In my mind it is more likely that it is faulty in some way.
However I can't rule out all the possibilities until I have explored them fully.
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just as a note, i have the G rev climate unit which is a double bin heated seats climate unit from a 2005/2006 car which works perfectly for my retrofitted heated seats.
I can't see any signs of dry or corroded joints. All the components seem fine as well. I suspect the fault, if there is one, is more along the lines of the unit not going to sleep fully, for whatever reason.
I wasn't expecting to see component damage as the would probably affect the functionality of the unit.
I left connector d only unplugged last night, and the car started first turn this morning, so I'm pretty confident that the relay on the power line with fix it until I get the correct revision.
I wasn't expecting to see component damage as the would probably affect the functionality of the unit.
I left connector d only unplugged last night, and the car started first turn this morning, so I'm pretty confident that the relay on the power line with fix it until I get the correct revision.
I now know that with con D pin 12 disconnected, the current draw drops to .368A, slightly higher than normal but acceptable I think.
I can't see any other wiring anomalies, I have removed the heated seat wiring, but I will be putting it back in and wiring in the relay.
It's worth noting that with the CC unit connected, the current draw is a fairly constant 1.112A, but with it disconnected, it starts at 1.112, then when the alarm arms (led starts blinking), it drops to .448, then after a minute it drops to .368.
It seems like it's not going to sleep.
I still have not been able to work out if it is normal for the backlights in the hazard and CH/LH light switches to stay on at all times.
I can't see any other wiring anomalies, I have removed the heated seat wiring, but I will be putting it back in and wiring in the relay.
It's worth noting that with the CC unit connected, the current draw is a fairly constant 1.112A, but with it disconnected, it starts at 1.112, then when the alarm arms (led starts blinking), it drops to .448, then after a minute it drops to .368.
It seems like it's not going to sleep.
I still have not been able to work out if it is normal for the backlights in the hazard and CH/LH light switches to stay on at all times.
Same on mine, hazards stay on for quite a long time, also never stayed long enough to see when they turn off
Sorry didn't answer instantly, but yes, everything I said is in the document. Just zoom in to see letters and numbers.
For the moment, I have fitted a 12V relay on con D pin 12, I don't like it as its a bodge, so I will be buying a revision G climate control unit.
I imagine the CH/LH light switch probably accounts for the higher current draw, does anyone know what is considered normal when it's locked and gone to sleep?
I imagine the CH/LH light switch probably accounts for the higher current draw, does anyone know what is considered normal when it's locked and gone to sleep?
