More problems with our S3!

[GNJ_Motorsport]

Well I bought my Audi S3 as a demo car for the business at shows and a nice car for me and I'm starting to wish I'd kept my Astra VXR and modded that further to be honest.

It is at stage 2 at the moment, REVO tuned. I started to get a really bad misfire so fitted new plugs and that solved that issue. The car has only very rarely felt like it is running properly in the 4 months I've had it. It feels nowhere near as quick as I think it should do for a stage 2 S3.

The latest problem started last week, when I put my foot down it pulls ok in 1st, 2nd and 3rd but when I get into 4th the revs start to surge and the car doesn't pull properly. I immediately thought clutch slip but it seems to only do it in 4th and doesn't feel like cars I have drove before suffering from clutch slip. It also pulls fine if I put my foot to the floor from low revs in 6th so it doesn't seem like the clutch.

Could it be a fuelling issue?

Just wondered if anyone has experienced a similar problem before we investigate further.

 

[crunchie]

This is why I ain't REVOd mine, too many horror stories of mis-fires.
They seem to have changed them slightly so its harder to map them.
I'd consider getting a custom map tho.
Had 3 REVOd cars before, never an issue with any of them.
Good luck getting to the bottom of your issues tho mate.

 

[S3RYE]

sounds like clutch mate, at the early stages mine only slipped in 4th,5th and 6th.

 

[warren_S5]

If I'm honest I was Stage 2 didn't feel like an enormous step change after the near 50bhp of stage 1. To be fair it can't be as it's tweaking the remains of what's available, but S2+ really perked the car up (I'm reading into this that you're S2 from your post rather than 2+). The additional mods to get to 2+ make the car come alive.

The S3 never feels quick in the way a 2wd car does. My S2 Leon felt quicker than the S3 despite having similar BHP on paper. The 2wd Leon was a handful, whereas the S3 feels somewhat subdued, overly controlled, and it's only when you're forced to chuck the anchors on you realise how devastatingly quick it is. It masks its speed well.

The clutch started to dull performance after about 5k miles at S2+, and where peak was on tap I felt like I had a slight flat spot. Turned out not to be the case. Good Sachs clutch makes it feel perky again, but I don't think it ever feels 2wd quick due to the nature of the beast.

 

[benppl]

Tbh, if you had left it standard you wouldn't be having problems!

Even if a vxr could outpace an m16 bullet I still couldn't own one, stop worrying about that...

 

[GNJ_Motorsport]

sounds like clutch mate, at the early stages mine only slipped in 4th,5th and 6th.

I'm sure its the clutch but I can't seem to feel any slip in 5th or 6th when in theory it should do.

If I'm honest I was Stage 2 didn't feel like an enormous step change after the near 50bhp of stage 1. To be fair it can't be as it's tweaking the remains of what's available, but S2+ really perked the car up (I'm reading into this that you're S2 from your post rather than 2+). The additional mods to get to 2+ make the car come alive.

The S3 never feels quick in the way a 2wd car does. My S2 Leon felt quicker than the S3 despite having similar BHP on paper. The 2wd Leon was a handful, whereas the S3 feels somewhat subdued, overly controlled, and it's only when you're forced to chuck the anchors on you realise how devastatingly quick it is. It masks its speed well.

The clutch started to dull performance after about 5k miles at S2+, and where peak was on tap I felt like I had a slight flat spot. Turned out not to be the case. Good Sachs clutch makes it feel perky again, but I don't think it ever feels 2wd quick due to the nature of the beast.

My car is stage 2 yes. I will be going to stage 2+ and uprating the clutch to a sachs one in the spring. I just thought the clutch would be ok at stage 2.

Tbh, if you had left it standard you wouldn't be having problems!

Even if a vxr could outpace an m16 bullet I still couldn't own one, stop worrying about that...

The S3 standard isn't something I'd be interested in mate. It simply isn't exciting to drive in my opinion. I know what you mean about modding it causing problems and in that sense I'm not complaining I'm just after some answers from people who have had similar issues before I start investigating the problem.

This is why I ain't REVOd mine, too many horror stories of mis-fires.
They seem to have changed them slightly so its harder to map them.
I'd consider getting a custom map tho.
Had 3 REVOd cars before, never an issue with any of them.
Good luck getting to the bottom of your issues tho mate.

The car had a misfire. I solved that with new plugs which seems to solve most of the REVO misfire problems people have. This is something completely different altogether.

The car feels fine in 1st, 2nd and 3rd if maybe not as quick as I expected. I know what people mean about it being subdued due to the quattro system keeping everything in check but it seems a little sluggish to me. I'll just have to see if a new clutch, fuel pump, FMIC & 2+ map solves the issue in the spring or earlier if I'm forced to. I may even scrap the REVO and get a Shark map on there.

 

[JamesS4cab]

You could always sell it and buy my Ibis White 2+ S3 which is running extremely strong at approx 380bhp and would make an impecable show car.

At 2+ it should feel like its on fire. I ran a 4.8 0-60 on and 13.2 1/4 mile at my first ever go at the 1/4 at Gti and its incredible. With another few attempts, I would say i would get into the 4.5's.

Just a thought.........

 

[paddy]

Be fair to the S3, you have clutch slip because you are at stg2 on a std clutch TBH

I dont know about 4wd but in days gone by people would pull the hand brake or stand on the foot brake and try and pull away to see if the clutch slipped.

 

[GNJ_Motorsport]

You could always sell it and buy my Ibis White 2+ S3 which is running extremely strong at approx 380bhp and would make an impecable show car.

At 2+ it should feel like its on fire. I ran a 4.8 0-60 on and 13.2 1/4 mile at my first ever go at the 1/4 at Gti and its incredible. With another few attempts, I would say i would get into the 4.5's.

Just a thought.........

Thanks mate but I'm not looking to change the car and buying a ready modified car is missing the point a bit. It is at stage 2 at the moment. Its quick don't get me wrong but it just doesn't feel right.

Be fair to the S3, you have clutch slip because you are at stg2 on a std clutch TBH

I dont know about 4wd but in days gone by people would pull the hand brake or stand on the foot brake and try and pull away to see if the clutch slipped.

I know what you mean Paddy, I haven't slated the car for not having the clutch to handle stage 2. Just a bit fed up of it as I've had it 4 months and probably had 3 weeks of trouble free motoring out of it. I've modified every car I've had and never had so many niggles.

I was aware that the clutch would need doing anyway as I want to go to 2+ but I want to make sure the problem I'm getting now is definitely the clutch. It seems the only answer really, just strange it only seems really noticeable in 4th.

 

[warren_S5]

Whilst I'm not defending Audi, for years they've had no small cars capable of big power figures like the Jap manufacturers who have had 276PS cars since I was playing Gran Turismo 1.

As a result it seems they took the Golf GTi 200PS platform and did what they believed was need to support a 261PS car, and there wasn't a lot of excess build in. I'm hoping the learnings of building the RS3 will teach them the S3 should be a downscales RS rather than an upscaled GTi in Mk3 A3 guise. The S4/5/6 cars always tended to share a down specced RS engine rather than an up specced S-Line unit for other current vehicles.

I feel for you as I've suffered some of the issues you're having now with my 8P2, but at least you guys are a motorsport company, when I faced it I felt alone (West Berkshire is light on good Audi independent tuning houses).

Persevere with it, and I'm sure it will come good mate, best of luck.

 

[Silky-S3]

Am I the only guy with a S3 that performs spot on and goes like stink?

 

[warren_S5]

Am I the only guy with a S3 that performs spot on and goes like stink?

No, Paddy's does now it's been sorted (says with fingers crossed!)

 

[Silky-S3]

No, Paddy's does now it's been sorted (says with fingers crossed!)

and yours?!?!

 

[warren_S5]

and yours?!?!

Milk float until it gets some mods. Hoping to get to Kev this week.....

 

[Silky-S3]

Milk float until it gets some mods. Hoping to get to Kev this week.....

lol, cool. Going straight to S2+?

 

[warren_S5]

lol, cool. Going straight to S2+?

Was going to, but have promised to do a case study on MY2012 S1 to see if we can get some enlightenment with some of these more recent issues, then jumping straight to S2+ in April / May

 

[Silky-S3]

Nice one, taking one for the team!

 

[warren_S5]

Nice one, taking one for the team!

Right in the tight brown

 

[paddy]

Am I the only guy with a S3 that performs spot on and goes like stink?

Over the moon with mine, it would be nice to go quicker but TBH i have never needed to

 

[S3Alex]

Am I the only guy with a S3 that performs spot on and goes like stink?

As I said to paddy on another thread.....no.

 

[GNJ_Motorsport]

Whilst I'm not defending Audi, for years they've had no small cars capable of big power figures like the Jap manufacturers who have had 276PS cars since I was playing Gran Turismo 1.

As a result it seems they took the Golf GTi 200PS platform and did what they believed was need to support a 261PS car, and there wasn't a lot of excess build in. I'm hoping the learnings of building the RS3 will teach them the S3 should be a downscales RS rather than an upscaled GTi in Mk3 A3 guise. The S4/5/6 cars always tended to share a down specced RS engine rather than an up specced S-Line unit for other current vehicles.

I feel for you as I've suffered some of the issues you're having now with my 8P2, but at least you guys are a motorsport company, when I faced it I felt alone (West Berkshire is light on good Audi independent tuning houses).

Persevere with it, and I'm sure it will come good mate, best of luck.

I agree with you completely mate. Some parts on the S3, like the clutch, could have been done better without a great deal extra cost. I suppose Audi didn't think about us trying to put 350+bhp and loads of torque through them.

I know what you mean about us being a tuning/performance company, I have a lot of good advice on tap. My mechanic who will be working on peoples cars when we move into a workshop is very good and he thinks its the clutch, although he hasn't driven it yet. However, I think a lot of companies similar to ourselves are too pig headed when dealing with problems and think they know everything. You can't beat a bit of advice from people who have owned and tuned these cars and had the exact issues I'm getting.

I reckon its the clutch, but I'm going to be upgrading the fuel pump anyway so I'll source that first and see if its a fuelling issue. Can't see it though as the revs seem to surge (Milltek roars as well!) and the car bogs down. Clutch is very pricey as you know and I don't really want to part with the cash until spring when I get the S2+ map so I'll see how it goes. Not a big fan of driving quickly in winter even with 4WD anyway

 

[dave_garnz]

mate its the clutch, in my last s3 had clutch slip like feck when it was running revo. ordered a sachs clutch which i never fitted. still got it in the boxes. bell me tomorrow if ur interested, i got it direct from sachs trade so only after my money back 07545096887

 

[WAFTER]

Me no understand. Why mess about trying to make it faster or better? Buy something faster and better in the first place.

 

[S3Alex]

I reckon its the clutch, but I'm going to be upgrading the fuel pump anyway so I'll source that first and see if its a fuelling issue. Can't see it though as the revs seem to surge (Milltek roars as well!) and the car bogs down. Clutch is very pricey as you know and I don't really want to part with the cash until spring when I get the S2+ map so I'll see how it goes. Not a big fan of driving quickly in winter even with 4WD anyway

What you're describing is almost certainly the clutch....the OEM one is made of either cheese or chocolate,and the best buy for Stg2+ is the Sachs,after which you'd probably be looking at Spec,Southbend ormaybe Clutchmaster.

Me no understand. Why mess about trying to make it faster or better? Buy something faster and better in the first place.

Depends on what you want or need......for the money,I've got something that's pretty fast at 350bhp/tonne(or around 500+bhp)and there isn't much aside from a Porsche Turbo in the(used) price range that could match it.....also has 4/5 seats and a decent boot.

 

[warren_S5]

Add to S3Alex's point, whilst it can be a real powerhouse if done properly, with Haldex it's actually safe, and very drivable in a range of conditions. Out the box its just strangled.

In the big snow last winter wiith part worn 19" summer tyres and S2+ (360bhp) my wife drove 120mile round trip to see her Dad in hospital and said it was outstandingly good and felt safe to drive (only limitation was ground clearance where snow was very deep). How many cars that do 0-60 in 5s, only cost £30k and have over 350bhp could you happily give to someone who drives less than 5 times a year and be absolutely comfortable they will be safel? A very versatile platform.

 

[Cheese]

Keep an eye on this thread:
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/new-a3...re-we-go-hesitation-issues-2.html#post1442852

I will keep it updated. I am off to get diagnostics done today...

 

[Shadowman]

Is the standard clutch safe enough with stage 1 ( 305 - 320 bhp depending on map ), or will it need changing ?

 

[dave_garnz]

stage 1 Sachs performance clutch. Everything apart from the release bearing I paid the best part of £500 trade. Brand new in boxes. Looking for £400. 07545 096887

 

[S.]

Is the standard clutch safe enough with stage 1 ( 305 - 320 bhp depending on map ), or will it need changing ?

sooner or later it will need changing, depending on your driving style. i'm on stage 2 on standard clutch for about 20 tkm's for now and it was slipping many times.

stage 1 Sachs performance clutch. Everything apart from the release bearing I paid the best part of £500 trade. Brand new in boxes. Looking for £400. 07545 096887

with the LUK DMF????

 

[Gavin0478]

are the dsg guys having the same issues as that would highlight if it was clutch related?

 

[RedDejavu]

no DSG can cope with up to 380Nm easily and 550Nm once mapped.

 

[Gavin0478]

are they getting the misfires aswell tho as the suspected clutch slip.

 

[Spin140]

Some of the associated clutch issues discussed and past experience has lead me to aim for a conservative stage 1 this time but with an uprated fuel pump, intake and exhaust thrown in for good measure. I say aim because having experienced stage 2+ in all its ferocity its a hard thing to resist as it really does bring the car alive, clutch costs put me off but in the grand scheme of things its acceptable.

I too am having stage 1 in the next week or so and would also be willing to share my experience with you all, hopefully no hesitation issues my end. Love Warrens statement about Milk float as standard and have to agree LOL
The mark 6 GTI I have just traded was running pretty close to 285bhp but felt much, much quicker than the S3 but I believe alot of this is down to the drama provided by FWD and loss of traction, persevere with the S3 it will be well worth it in the end.

 

[GNJ_Motorsport]

stage 1 Sachs performance clutch. Everything apart from the release bearing I paid the best part of £500 trade. Brand new in boxes. Looking for £400. 07545 096887

Sorry mate not been ignoring you. I am in the process of getting a trade deal with Sachs to supply these so I'll hang fire for now probably. I'll let you know if I change my mind. Did you get a new OE dual mass flywheel as well?

I'm pretty sure from driving it today that its the clutch. It never really occured to me to think about the previous owner and he had it at stage 2 for a while and he did a track day in it (He is an enthusiast, not suggesting it's been ragged) so I reckon it is almost certainly knackered!

Sachs clutch, dmf, stage 2+ map, autotech fuel pump internals and H&R ARB's will be going on in April/May time. Now just time to save so get buying some parts lads

 

[S3Alex]

no DSG can cope with up to 380Nm easily and 550Nm once mapped.

That's roughly equivalent to the torque limit of a Sachs clutch for the manual,but when you go above that,both cars will need something serious....HGP can deal with the DSG box,and for the manual,you need something like a Spec or similar paddle clutch.

 

[Gavin0478]

i know a little off topic and will depend on what mods you are also running but what are the ball park figures for stage 1, 1+, 2, 2+, mapping
just asking as pretty certain in the new year gonna go for a s3 dsg but if it cant take stage 2/2+ id rather save on purchase and put it to a detter clutch etc.

 

[warren_S5]

i know a little off topic and will depend on what mods you are also running but what are the ball park figures for stage 1, 1+, 2, 2+, mapping
just asking as pretty certain in the new year gonna go for a s3 dsg but if it cant take stage 2/2+ id rather save on purchase and put it to a detter clutch etc.

stage 1 : 300-310bhp
stage 1+ : Doesn't really exist unless you are classing this as map + CAI so maybe 310-320bhp
stage 2: 330-340bhp
stage 2+: 360bhp+

Very vague guide there and don't give a clear picture of how the power bands change across the rev range. 2+ feels more powerful than the gap in BHP between 2 and 2+, but it's the nature of it's delivery across the range that are so impressive.

Don't know what torques are per spec.

 

[Cheese]

no DSG can cope with up to 380Nm easily and 550Nm once mapped.

That's roughly equivalent to the torque limit of a Sachs clutch for the manual,but when you go above that,both cars will need something serious....HGP can deal with the DSG box,and for the manual,you need something like a Spec or similar paddle clutch.

My tuner recommended going with an OEM DMF rather than the uprated SMF from Sachs to maintain factory characteristics - apparently a SMF is noisier, like a diesel, and not as pleasant to drive.


According to the Sachs website the uprated clutch can cope with '480+Nm':
S3 quattro (195 kW ; 11/2006) - Sachs-Performance


Looking around at reported torque gains on Stage 2+, and assuming they are 'at the flywheel' estimates - they come out at 470Nm - 510Nm, which exceeds the transmittable torque figure on the Sachs website...