How do you tell if its 170 TDI?

[beerglass]

My normal car is a TDI 2.0 140 s-line 2006 . Today Ive been loaned a 3-door, same car but has the 18" BBS CH style rims.

But it seems to be alittle bit quickier than mine. The rear pipes look the same and under the bonnet looks the same.

Its a 06 plate like mine. How can you tell if its a 170 or 140?
Also the Bose upgrade is loads better than the standard in mine....gutted I didnt buy that option now

 

[Amchlolor]

Look at the plate under the bonnet.
140bhp is 104kw
170bhp is 127kw

A kw is 0.746 of a bhp.

 

[touring50]

Give-away indication of 170 over 140 is the 170 will have twin chromed straight exhaust pipes , due to it having a DPF (diesel particulate filter) stops soot basically (hope it lasts a long time because I'm sure it's expensive)
Some cars do seem quicker than others think its luck of the draw and how they are run in. Friend who works for Audi/VW says the demo cars are thrashed from 0 miles and loosen up very quickly. Its OK until later on in life when things will wear out quicker.

 

[coupe-se]

Some cars do seem quicker than others think its luck of the draw and how they are run in. Friend who works for Audi/VW says the demo cars are thrashed from 0 miles and loosen up very quickly. Its OK until later on in life when things will wear out quicker.

That isn't neccesarily the case.

There is a school of thought amongst some engineers that say that engines driven hard from day 1 actually achieve better seals on the rings as what honing there is on the cylinder walls soon wears away.

Heres a quote from one chap ............


"Nowadays, the piston ring seal is really what the break in process is all about. Contrary to popular belief, piston rings don't seal the combustion pressure by spring tension. Ring tension is necessary only to "scrape" the oil to prevent it from entering the combustion chamber.

If you think about it, the ring exerts maybe 5-10 lbs of spring tension against the cylinder wall ...
How can such a small amount of spring tension seal against thousands of
PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch) of combustion pressure ??
Of course it can't.

How Do Rings Seal Against Tremendous Combustion Pressure ??

From the actual gas pressure itself !! It passes over the top of the ring, and gets behind it to force it outward against the cylinder wall. The problem is that new rings are far from perfect and they must be worn in quite a bit in order to completely seal all the way around the bore. If the gas pressure is strong enough during the engine's first miles of operation (open that throttle !!!), then the entire ring will wear into
the cylinder surface, to seal the combustion pressure as well as possible.


The Problem With "Easy Break In" ...
The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to wear. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run.

There's a very small window of opportunity to get the rings to seal really well.

If the rings aren't forced against the walls soon enough, they'll use up the roughness before they fully seat. Once that happens there is no solution but to re hone the cylinders, install new rings and start over again."

Iv'e never been too bothered about running in any engine on any of the new cars Iv'e owned and never had one that uses oil or has been a problem. My good friend has an STI Impreza has driven it hard from day 1 and ALWAYS drives it hard (harder than I ever would!!). His car has done around 70k now with no mechanical faults and uses no oil between 12k services.

Modern manufacturing techniques are so advanced and clean that running in regimes really are not needed anymore.

 

[marriedblonde]

Trouble is with school of thought no one actually gets any grades...

 

[beerglass]

its a 140 but boy is it quicker than mine...
really feels quick

 

[wilko]

A hire car or test drive car always seems faster, smoother, lighter, etc, etc... they always do.

 

[steve184]

170 has oil filler cap in different position than 140 for some reason

 

[touring50]

That isn't neccesarily the case.

There is a school of thought amongst some engineers that say that engines driven hard from day 1 actually achieve better seals on the rings as what honing there is on the cylinder walls soon wears away.

Now you tell me , just spent first thousand miles being gentle and responsible . Have to try and make amends. Weather pretty annoying at the moment though not good for getaway traction.

 

[southpaw66]

Can't agree more with coupe-se. Wait 'til the oil is warm (20-30min) then give it some stick!

The day I picked up my car I did 250 miles of A-road blasting round essex, suffolk and norfolk, now at about 1300 miles not used a drop of oil. I try to give it a little blast every day (even taking different routes home) to really bed it in - nothing worse for running in than cruising at 1500rpm.
Honest John has some advice (http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/faq.htm?id=32)

What's the best way to run-in a diesel engine?

For the first 1,000 miles do not exceed 3,000rpm, but make sure you reach 3,000rpm regularly. For the next 1,000 miles (to 2,000 miles) do not exceed 3,500rpm, but make sure you reach 3,500rpm regularly. For the next 1,000 miles (to 3,000 miles) do not exceed 4,000rpm, but make sure you reach 4,000rpm regularly. For the next 1,000 miles (to 4,000 miles) do not exceed 4,500rpm, but make sure you reach 4,500rpm at least a couple of times a week. After that, no limit, but make sure you continue to hit 4,500rpm through the gears several times a week. The benefit of this is it helps to self clean the injectors, it blows any accumulated soot out of the exhaust system and it helps to free off the piston rings, making the engine more efficient and less likely to use engine oil.

 

[Ess_Three]

I agree with the 'warm it up, then use it to the full' run in procedure.

I've watched Porsche dyno test an engine straight off the production line (as they do all the flat 6s) to make sure it makes the numbers - then it goes into a car.
So if it's good enough to be run at 10 mins on the limiter before it's even fitted...it's good enough to be used when I collect the car.

I've done the same with my last 3 new cars...warm them up, then show them the rev limiter...
They always make better numbers than the makers claim too.

 

[beerglass]

I agree with the running in statment as well.
I have riden moto cross for 15 years and each time I get a new bike ride it like I stole it out of the box.

On a different forum all about 4-stoke motocross bikes Honda were getting a grilling about there new Honda CRF250 bike.
It was drinking oil and was so bad that some people couldnt finish a 3 hour enduro race before the oil had gone from the engine.
Alot of these people had run the bikes in very carefully and the rings had not made a good seal. Myself and a few other fellow riders all rode them hard from new and never had any real oil problems. In some cases its best to re hone the head and start again.

But Ive had my car from new and its done 13K now. The hire car has done 6K.
I have driven my car fairly hard from new and its no where like this hire car.
This is now the second hire car i've had which I felt was much quicker. The first was a 2.0 tdi SE and decided it was the wheels making me think the car was pulling harder because of the 16" rims.
But my current hire car is the same s-line spec but does have the CH style rims and 3doors. It just revs and revs and even sounds different.
The traction control light is happy coming on as well. ( ok its wet out there )

Whats going on

 

[Amchlolor]

Motorcycle engine tuners all agree that ragging the **** off an engine from new produces the best BHP,without exception.

Doesn't do much for engine longevity though,but I'm not a high mileage driver,so who gives a fig !

One thing I would throw into the ring (sic) is that Audi's engine tolerances evidently vary wildly,as can be seen from the fact some burn oil like two-strokes and some are oil-tight.
Wildly carying engine tolerances = wildly varying power output.

 

[marriedblonde]

Your all missing one vital point though, when you get a new car your not only running the engine in but the tyres, brakes etc...

Personally I always take it easy, I don't mean nanny, for the first 500 miles as this give the brakes etc a chance to bed in. I've used a litre and a half of oil in 37K miles which I think is acceptable.

J.

 

[beerglass]

Your all missing one vital point though, when you get a new car your not only running the engine in but the tyres, brakes etc...

Personally I always take it easy, I don't mean nanny, for the first 500 miles as this give the brakes etc a chance to bed in. I've used a litre and a half of oil in 37K miles which I think is acceptable.

J.

Brakes what are those?

 

[southpaw66]

I always forget how bad new brakes are. The sales guy said to me as I drove away - be careful with the brakes. So I'm like yeah, yeah.... First time braking from > 70mph (ahem) about 5mins from dealer; aaargh!!! no brakes!!!! Lucky I had left extra room...

Didn't really have any bite for at least 500miles. Tyres probably about 250miles (1st day for me). But usually I only give it gas when it's safe to do so; I've tended to blast up to whatever speed (within the legal, of course) then coast, rather than blasting between corners (rev - brake - rev - brake)... well maybe once or twice...

 

[Vertigo1]

There's two types of "ragging" when talking about engines - revving it and loading it.

Are those advocating the "rag it from new" approach talking about loading the engine (i.e. hard acceleration) but not to max revs or taking it all the way up to the limiter?

southpaw66, the Honest Jon quote you provided says to limit the revs and raise them gradually yet you say you're a proponent of ragging it from new. Are you saying you should load the engine but not rev it too much or that HJ is incorrect and you should rev it too?

/me confoosed.

 

[Amchlolor]

I just drive my cars 'normally',from new.
I don't make any conscious decision to do anything.
I just drive them as I do now.
Could be gentle town driving,could be revving it to within an inch of it's life on a country road.
500 miles to bed in brakes is (IMO) utter nonsense,as is 250 miles to bed in tyres.
Neither need any more than 50 miles to get to perfect working order.

I don't see any need to change my 'style' either,as there is nothing in any of my cars' behaviour/maintenance routines to suggest it's done any harm.
Brake and tyre wear are normal.
Engine wear has never been a problem either,apart from on my current POC,which I don't think is anything to do with running in.
I've just got an oil-burner,and that's that.

 

[Ess_Three]

I've always found 25-50 miles is enough to get the greasy coating off the tyres...but a couple of decent heat cycles to really set them.

Brakes take the sum total of a long quiet stretch of road and a procedure like the Stoptech bed in procedure...no more than 2-3 miles and a few minutes has them bedded in properly.

I'm wary of loosening bolts, wheels, etc....so I'll pay attention to odd noises for the first couple of hundred miles of so...

But the rev limiter is there for a reason...I hit it 5 or 6 times on the way home from the dealer.
But, as I said, my engine had already done 10 mins at full power...so why mollycoddle it?

This 'drive like you are taking your Granny to Church' for 1500 miles crap...life is too short.
If I break it, it'll get fixed under warranty. That's why I buy a new car... :icon_thumright:

 

[southpaw66]

southpaw66, the Honest Jon quote you provided says to limit the revs and raise them gradually yet you say you're a proponent of ragging it from new. Are you saying you should load the engine but not rev it too much or that HJ is incorrect and you should rev it too?

/me confoosed.

Loading and revving but not to the limiter, but difficult to not hit limiter in 1st as it comes so quickly when at full commitment! I think the difference is driving continuously at max revs in every gear (which I don't do) and giving a good welly full every journey when the oppurtunity arises - maybe at least 5 mins in every hour.

I think the important part about honest john's quote is the recommendation to regularly reach higher revs when running in, the exact revs would in reality be different for each engine.

 

[BrianM]

People always forget about the tyres and brakes from new syndrome...when you have new m/bike tyres fitted they always warn you to take it easy for a couple of hundred miles and for good reason. I saw a guy get on his 750 sportsbike and totally ignore the tyre fitter and dropped the clutch for a quick getaway and promptly swopped ends in the middle of the main road..very amusing for the bystanders. As regards running in, I have purchased several ex demos, current Sportback ex demo and never noticed any degradation in performance or reliability, if anything they seem quicker and I tend to do around 25 -30k per year and keep for 75k! 3yr warranties are pertfect.

 

[marriedblonde]

No audi's that only cover you for 60K for 3 years...