Hope the RS5 hasn't ruined things for me...

[A4Ade]

Hi Folks - over from the A4(B7) forum...

I have been looking to replace my 2.0T S-line A4 with a facelift (2013) S5. I went to a local indy dealership that had a nice looking example on their website, but when I arrived I discovered it hadn't yet arrived on site. Not to leave me with a wasted journey the salesman suggested I try an RS5 they had. Oh boy. I won't try to describe it - you will either know what I mean, or you won't - I can't do it justice.

It's only priced a few grand above the S5 (so *could* be doable) but is a couple of years older, a 2011 pre-facelift. I have obviously thought about it, but with it being that bit older (no Audi warranty left), extra upfront and ongoing running costs etc. I am erring still towards the S5 - certainly I will need to try it when they get it in.

But the question is, will the RS5 have ruined the S5 for me? I have never driven the V6T (I'd never driven a V8 full stop before yesterday!) so I don't know what to expect. Of course it will be down on power and noise, but hopefully coming from my (remapped ~240 BHP) A4 I am still going to see a big difference. Only one way to find out of course, but interested to hear any opinions! There's always the Stage 1+ I suppose! (Brilliant threads, and useful info from @warren_S5 - thanks).

Cheers,
Ade

P.S. a minor thing, but a part of upgrading the car is to get a fresh feel inside too - so I was a little disappointed to find the RS5 doesn't have the flat bottom steering wheel of the S5, but instead the same one as I have in the A4!

 

[CraigI]

I had a 2013 S5 and now have a 2014 RS5.
Both good cars. Only one is a RS though and only one comes with that soundtrack.

 

[Shrek5]

FWIW I own an S5 and got to drive an RS4 (so similar engine etc) and no doubt the soundtrack of that 4.2V8 is better than the V6T but I was left ultimately underwhelmed by the RS4. The step up in the feel of performance from the V6T to V8 didn't amaze me - now the RS6's 4.0 V8 Twin Turbo, that's something else.

Based on that experience I would go for newer/better equipment than specifically an RS5. If it's performance that you want, that can be added to the S5 easily (at the expense of warranty of course). If you can afford a newer RS5 with the same spec as an S5 then your choice might be harder, although I'd personally still trouser the difference and go for the S5.

 

[A4Ade]

Thanks guys. The (lack of) soundtrack is probably what I'll notice most! But I am not sure that alone is enough to sway me... I am definitely hoping that the S5 drive will still be a big change from my A4. I'm no boy racer, but I like a car to shift when I put my foot down, and the RS5 did that like nothing I've ever driven. It's likely other refinements of the RS over the S would go unappreciated by me. A big part of the upgrade is in the change from 4 to 5 (which I get either way) and in the more modern interior spec (where the newer S5 wins). Just waiting for the dealer to call so I can go and drive it....!

 

[CraigI]

I've been through many a car (S5 included as mentioned) and the RS5 is the best overall package I've owned.
The sound I have mentioned, looks wise the RS is far more purposeful and staunch, just like a car of this kind should look.
I find the driving set up in the RS5 superior (as expected), but if you are a modder that's relatively easy to sort.
I'd also have the RS over the S for downshifting alone, such a growl it throws out.

The RS gives a sense of ocassion I didn't ever really get from the S.
If you get the S5 you'll likely still hanker after a RS5, so if the numbers stack up then do it - life is too short as is the opportunity to have a NA V8, a truly glorious engine.

 

[A4Ade]

Well, it looks like I have to agree with you! Drove the S5 today and, don't get me wrong it's a great car. But it just didn't put the same smile on my face. The power was there but often not when/where I wanted it. Maybe a better driver would eek more out of the S5 than me! But the RS just had the power - and lots of it - every time I asked for it.

So it might be a bit older, a little more expensive (and still have the old A4 steering wheel, grr) - not quite as sensible as the S5, but let's face it: I'm not doing this to be sensible...

One thing that would be vaguely useful to gauge is running costs. My rough calculations suggest that on a 10k annual mileage I'm looking at fuel, tax and insurance of about £1,000 more than for the S5. Any idea what else I should be factoring in? Servicing will be more I guess. Can you think
Of anything else I'm missing?

Cheers,
Ade

 

[Av4nt]

Soundtrack is always nice. But the V6T can be tuned up like a beast if you want more power and will probably give an RS5 a run for its money if you wentdown that route anyway. the noise is the only thing that wont be there but is that the be all...

 

[A4Ade]

Thanks for all the input - I won't bore you all like I've bored my mate going back and forth between the S and RS decision over the last two days! I'll just wrap up with the outcome: The S5. I decided to drive it again - it's the car I wanted originally after all - a facelift black edition (unlike the RS) and it's the car I had planned and budgeted for. I enjoyed the S5 even more the second time out as I am starting to get to grips with the s-tronic. @CraigI - you're probably right that a bit of me will hanker after an RS still, but right now it isn't a car I was confident I could live with day to day. @Shrek5 - difference indeed trousered... and saved for the day I decide to go Stage 1+

 

[Shrek5]

Pretty sure you won't be disappointed. Came across a RS4 Cab the other day and was surprised to find I kept up with it and started to close in between roundabouts. I'll grant that it was a 2007 vintage so don't know if it had carbon build up but they were definitely going for it - the exhaust gave that away, which I'll grant you sounded lovely. Pretty certain a remapped S5 would have walked all over it.

Have you seen @warren_S5's write up of Revo? Also got to drive it and added my tuppence worth too in the thread here.

 

[A4Ade]

Yep - read @warren_S5 's and your reviews (I'm not good at remembering to "like" so just remedied that!) - really interesting to read. I'm not a massive modder - everything I have done though has come from reading about it on the forums! I remapped my old A4 and I might consider it on the S5 somewhere down the line - just waiting to get my hands on the car and get some miles down in it's standard form before I think about anything else though

One thing I'd be interested in is if there are any easy VCDS mods than can be done - I'll have to take a nosey around the VCDS section and the Ross-Tech website...

 

[CraigI]

You'll be back here within a year of S5 ownership asking about changing to the RS.


You'll enjoy the S5 I don't doubt it, it's a good car, just not a great one.

 

[Shrek5]

You'll be back here within a year of S5 ownership asking about changing to the RS.


You'll enjoy the S5 I don't doubt it, it's a good car, just not a great one.

I'm not so sure. I know it wasn't an RS5 but I was not bowled over by the RS4 I drove. Considering the 15k+ difference(when new - not sure about like for like at say 2 years) I just felt it was a lot for an, admittedly lovely, exhaust noise - the performance wasn't as night and day as I was expecting. I know that the person I was with also felt the same way. Also being a passenger in a pre-facelift one a few times I haven't spotted anything that makes me think wow, I need this in my crummy S5.

Now the RS6... if it wasn't against eBay T&C's I'd have sold my first born by now and be driving one of those... (Please don't tell the wife I said that... )

 

[CraigI]

I'm not so sure. I know it wasn't an RS5 but I was not bowled over by the RS4 I drove. Considering the 15k+ difference(when new - not sure about like for like at say 2 years) I just felt it was a lot for an, admittedly lovely, exhaust noise - the performance wasn't as night and day as I was expecting. I know that the person I was with also felt the same way. Also being a passenger in a pre-facelift one a few times I haven't spotted anything that makes me think wow, I need this in my crummy S5.

Now the RS6... if it wasn't against eBay T&C's I'd have sold my first born by now and be driving one of those... (Please don't tell the wife I said that... )

I don't want to claim to be better qualified, but I'm speaking from experience of owning both a 2013 S5 and a 2014 RS5, so guess I am better qualified. Can't comment on the pre-facelift, never been in one.

In my opinion it's very much worth the extra money - here's why (taking consideration that I'm ageing gracefully and have absolutely no interest in modding any more) - better looking (properly flared arches/better wheel options/front grill/rear diffuser), better suspension set up (more planted and better turn in), powwwwwwwer (better delivery, more of), noise (both on acceleration and dropping down a gear), naturally aspirated, better interior (buckets create the perfect seating position for this kind of car, hugely superior to the supersports seats in the S5).

I do like the S5, it's a good package, but the RS is in a different league.

I actually had a RS6 on order but shifted to a RS5. RS6 is just too big.
Utterly brutal performance though, license loser that one. Had a very enjoyable weekend in one, then placed an order, but downgraded it.
I don't regret the move to RS5, thought I would, but it's a far better car than I ever expected.

 

[Shrek5]

- I don't think I particularly disagree with anything you are saying... and you definitely are better qualified than I am. Likewise I'm not into modding...

Better looking - without a doubt - and those V-spokes are the nicest in the range at the moment IMHO, but a non-car person doesn't see the differences, stood with my wife and she had to have each of the differences pointed out (except the colour of course! ). But anyway, I agree it looks better, but it's quite subtle and many won't see the differences.

Setup - I'll have to take your word for it, on the road I've yet to unsettle the S5 or find it lacking for grip. Not sure if the fact I have drive select narrows things at all or whether you are comparing drive select with drive select.

Powwwwweerrr - delivery, it didn't feel all that different to me, as mentioned to me it was disappointing (comparatively, in an RS4) but I accept living long term with both might reveal hidden talents

Noise - yeah fair and square the 4.2 V8 undoubtedly sounds the better.

Interior - bucket seats again I'll defer to you on that and don't doubt you, but the SS aren't shabby, but other than that what's different? I believe that the RS's have better sound deadening etc, but maybe I'm just lucky as I haven't noticed any out of place squeaks.

So in summary - agree with most of what you say, but on balance I couldn't justify the extra outlay (16k list price, much wider with the discount on the S5 I got) just for those. Maybe that just illustrates a lack of imagination and too analytical approach to buying on my part but, for me, those differences just don't stack up.

The S5 delivers everything, and more than, I can use on the road with the added bonus I can easily afford all of the options I wanted. An RS5 would likely have led to a compromise on the interior options. If you can afford and justify both that's cracking - and that was my point to the OP, if it came down to an older, pre-FL RS5 or new(er) S5 it's a no-brainer for me, especially if the interior options of the S5 were the same or better than the RS5.

Anyway, either way I appreciate that is just my thoughts on things and everyone's criteria are different... it would be boring if we all agreed and liked the same thing.

 

[Snake Pliskin]

if you ever crave more power in an S5, this video always makes me smile.

Stock, the S5 is only 0.5 seconds slower to 60mph than the RS5 - this would help bridge the gap

and the enhanced super-charger whine is amazing !

 

[Snake Pliskin]

if you ever crave more power in an S5, this video always makes me smile.

Stock, the S5 is only 0.5 seconds slower to 60mph than the RS5 - this would help bridge the gap

and the enhanced super-charger whine is amazing !

 

[A4Ade]

Remap is sweet.... but currently I'd settle for being able to drive it at all! Owned it for nearly 3 weeks, but driven it for a total of only 5 days It's back at the dealer's having some repair work done. To be fair, the issues are things I didn't spot before driving it away, and the dealer is being good (if a little slow) about fixing them. It's just frustrating!

 

[Shrek5]

Gah! Frustrating!

Although at least they are being fixed. Are they major issues or just a little slow to fix?

 

[s3_trev]

Is the s5 not much more economical to tune or something? I think I read something about that in Warren's thread, with figures of 500 bhp being mentioned!

And that supercharger wine....I think that would get annoying after like a week!

 

[s3_trev]

2015 RS5

 

[lee_fr200]

That supercharger would do my head in!

 

[Snake Pliskin]

just watched that RS vid ... is the RS 450 bhp ?

S5 is only 333bhp so if the RS5 really is 450bhp how come it's only half a second quicker to 62 mph than the S5 ?

RS without doubt wins in the sound department though - but £15k over the S is a hefty price to pay ... I would want a full second + more for that kind of money.

 

[CraigI]

RS5 is much better in many ways.
Well worth the premium if you have the disposable income to be able to do it.
If you don't, S5 is just fine.

 

[s3_trev]

Yeah the RS5 in the vid I posted, the dude is saying its 450 bhp, but that is the 2015 version so not sure if we are comparing the correct model RS5 to the same year S5 if you understand what I mean.

 

[A4Ade]

Gah! Frustrating!

Although at least they are being fixed. Are they major issues or just a little slow to fix?

Not major. Problem with drivers door / window mechanism. Just slow. Actually, it wasn't helped by the fact that I wanted the car last weekend to visit my brother, so insisted on taking it away and then bringing it back. So I guess I've interrupted their flow or something!

 

[A4Ade]

That supercharger would do my head in!

I think I agree

I'm curious, how much of the extra supercharger whine is the remap, and how much is down to the physical changes under the hood? I seem to recall warren_s5's review saying the Revo CAI was largely responsible for the extra noise.

So I guess you could get a big chunk of the extra horses without the whine if you went for just a remap?

Anyone done just that, and can comment?

 

[CraigI]

just watched that RS vid ... is the RS 450 bhp ?

S5 is only 333bhp so if the RS5 really is 450bhp how come it's only half a second quicker to 62 mph than the S5 ?

RS without doubt wins in the sound department though - but £15k over the S is a hefty price to pay ... I would want a full second + more for that kind of money.

If 0-60 and cost is your thing the S3 does the straight line sprint in the same time as the S5 and costs £13k less. It's an argument I will never understand, 0-60 is just marketing ********. Similar to the 'ring times. Good for pub bragging rights though if that's your thing.

The RS5 is about so much more than 0-60 as an upgrade from the S5.
Just like the S5 has much more going for it than 0-60 in comparison with the S3.

The S5 is absolutely worth the premium over a S3 as the RS5 is over the S5.

 

[Snake Pliskin]

If 0-60 and cost is your thing the S3 does the straight line sprint in the same time as the S5 and costs £13k less. It's an argument I will never understand, 0-60 is just marketing ********. Similar to the 'ring times. Good for pub bragging rights though if that's your thing.

The RS5 is about so much more than 0-60 as an upgrade from the S5.
Just like the S5 has much more going for it than 0-60 in comparison with the S3.

The S5 is absolutely worth the premium over a S3 as the RS5 is over the S5.

I do acknowledge and agree that the RS5 is a better car / package than the S5 I would just like a bit more performance to distinguish the power differential.

That said the RS3 is only 0.6 seconds faster to 62 than the S3 so perhaps that's the standard Audi scale from S to RS.

The 0 to 60 is a good measure of a cars raw straight line power and tbh that is more important to me than how fast a car goes round corners or a race track. I can exploit & enjoy acceleration on public roads - up to 70mph of course - noise is also a nice addition to be enjoyed so yeah the S5 makes a very satisfying sound under acceleration but the RS5 provides without doubt the best soundtrack ...... Heard an RS+ recently fitted with the optional sports exhaust and that was phenomenal !!!!

 

[THQuattro]

Luv the vid but it would have to be my weekend car.

 

[ricje]

I do acknowledge and agree that the RS5 is a better car / package than the S5 I would just like a bit more performance to distinguish the power differential.

That said the RS3 is only 0.6 seconds faster to 62 than the S3 so perhaps that's the standard Audi scale from S to RS.

The 0 to 60 is a good measure of a cars raw straight line power and tbh that is more important to me than how fast a car goes round corners or a race track. I can exploit & enjoy acceleration on public roads - up to 70mph of course - noise is also a nice addition to be enjoyed so yeah the S5 makes a very satisfying sound under acceleration but the RS5 provides without doubt the best soundtrack ...... Heard an RS+ recently fitted with the optional sports exhaust and that was phenomenal !!!!

 

[ricje]

Ruined it for me. At start of April was ready to trade in the trusty b7 RS4 (best car I've ever owned, never had an issue with it in 3 years. But with 78K on was time to move on) on a 2013 black s5 coupe. Tried the RS5 with sports exhaust and was sold. It's a different beast in terms of setup (and s5 did not have sports diff). So I went for a 2010 RS5! With twice as many miles (58K) for same price. Have not looked back. Noticeably quicker than the 4. And the noise...

 

[A4Ade]

Finally got the car back after nearly two weeks of it being with the dealer. Door rattles / window issues all sorted. Spent the weekend enjoying some of the Lancashire country roads :-D

I can honestly say I'm not wishing I'd bought the RS. I think the bottom line is how much of a step up the S5 is for me. Coming from a 2.0TFSI the S5 is so different and so much fun. The RS would be more so, sure, but I don't need it. Yet ;-)

I also hooked up to VCDS for a couple of minor mods. Activated memory seats (don't have the buttons but pretty neat that I can get the memory working off the keys as a free upgrade)! And reverse mirror tilt, and lap timer (why not).

A couple I'm thinking I'm going to take off again: beeps on lock / unlock. Can't decide if I want them. And I activated "driving school mode" cos I thought (for some reason) it'd be fun to have the speedo on the radio screen. Just means the better half can see exactly how fast I'm going. Will be turning that off again.

I also took the opportunity to check the launch control counter. Claims to be zero. Dunno if it's something that could have been reset? Tbh, having floored it from a standstill I can't imagine it launching much quicker anyway! I'm sure someone can put me right on that front!

 

[Shrek5]

A shame you had a shaky start but thankfully all sorted now. Glad you are happy with the purchase, I was out last night in my S5 and it still puts a big old smile on my face.

 

[ISS]

Hi guys

As Craig says the A5 and the RS5 are completely different motors. It's not about "just" the sound or anything as simple as that. It's the complete package I guess. There's a world of difference between a normally aspirated V8 lump and a turbo charged lump.Nothing at all wrong with the S5 I think it's a great motor. As an FYI I've had my 2011 RS5 since 2011. Since then I've only seen 5 other RS5 "in the flesh" out on the roads but loads of S5.

The biggest problem I have with Audi at the moment is that the valves on my sports exhaust have stuck closed, and even though it's under extended warranty they want me to pay £1300 plus VAT for a pair of new back boxes which I find rather annoying.

Jon

 

[RRichard]

I have a preface lift RS5 bought new, luckily I had also purchased the extended warranty on it too, just after the three years I had a problem with the mechtronic gearbox which resulted eventually in Audi having to replace the gearbox, this was not because of the mechtronics but because an oil seal was leaking and it could not be replaced, so the whole gearbox was changed. After this was done there seemed to be a low rumbling noice coming from the gearbox at low revs. The specialist looked at it and diagnosed a software upgrade and that fixed it. Even with the problems I have had I love the RS, would not swap it for anything, I drive it hard and it has never let me down. As afr as I can see the only difference in the face lift and non face lift is the steering wheel, wheels and MMI.