FMIC

[S3 Rav]

adam have you got any pics with prices of your mates intercoolers then?

 

[MAD_Adamski]

not got any of a S3 spec one or that yet as i've been so busy not got them to make it yet BUT,,, heres some of one they made for a mates 300+hp fiesta rst last week and a few of my cossie setup to show there work...

like i said none of a audi spec one but they made that fiesta one up in a few days a S3 one is BASIC a TDI on is actually worse due to the pipework setup if i wanna go single pass i'll have to prob loop a pipe over the top from the right hand side hard to explain but the S3 one would be easy to make... They could make alloy hoses too but that would move price up i'd suggest people make there own as TBH the forge ones will flow bad anyway cause of the design..... IF i can get 1 person to commit to buy the first one and i'll commit to buy the first TDI one then the rest would come down in price easily i should imagine i could get the first one made for £300-350 at a guess ...

like i said tho i'll prob ge abused and people say ' oh its to much the ebay one is better ' BUT i'm just trying to help people I NEVER make any money giving AH work they are just good mates and look after me and give me and my mates discount so i try to help AH update there stuff and help others...

For those who dont know the company lets just say there so busy 100% of the time they dont NEED to advertise! that says it all IMO...

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[MAD_Adamski]

Routing and bends make no difference to the power so why place more relevence on them? Other than aestetics, I couldn't see any benefit in changing the pipework. End tank design is fine; you have a pressurised system and the air should follow the path of least resistance, ensuring the whole FMIC is pressure equalised.

How would you improve the Forge one, and what exactly would you expect? Not sure I understand your comments about it being all bling.




Edit: Just noticed that I basically just repeated Glen's comments

in answer to this yes the forge one is designed quite well, AND end tank design and bends etc do not effect power BUT they do effect flow! Flow is essential for the cooler working to its best... the forge one could be improved yes i can see where it has 1or2 flow issues straight off thas not too knock it tho as it is a good design just COULD be improved very easily :icon_thumright:

 

[Ess_Three]

in answer to this yes the forge one is designed quite well, AND end tank design and bends etc do not effect power BUT they do effect flow! Flow is essential for the cooler working to its best... the forge one could be improved yes i can see where it has 1or2 flow issues straight off thas not too knock it tho as it is a good design just COULD be improved very easily :icon_thumright:

Did you read any of the above thread though?

Maybe the design can...but on a K04'd S3...it doesn't seem to make a bit of difference.

The big jump is getting more efficient ICs in the first place...from then on, the gains over an 'oh so perfect' one and a cheapo effors seem to be down to a degree or so at best.

So people have to work out for themselves...is it worth spending more to have a better flowing IC, easier fitting by way of a full kit, or better back up, over a DIY effort with a core off eBay?

In my experience, it's probably not if you are sticking to bolt-ons on a K04.

 

[vetch]

What would I get for my £300-£350 if I were to be the guinea pig? I'd want the whole kit for that money??

 

[<tuffty/>]

what about a group buy? surely we could rustle up at least 5 people interested in getting an IC built then the cost could be spread and all would benefit?

<tuffty/>

 

[MAD_Adamski]

esses sorry mate i dnt really know anything on S3 turbo's etc but anyway the cores my friend uses would be best for the job over some ebay ones...

As for price and wanting whole kit As i've said i'm trying to help if you want the whole kit for 300-350 go buy the ebay one! not trying to be rude about it but your buying the best if i get it for you not some cheap core....

a lad i got a cooler made for made 30 BHP extra on the RR just by changing to a AH spec one as i brought the ACT's down so much... the forge one is prob alot as the silicons aren't cheap and they make pipes...

AH dont like to ge involved in ''KITS'' they would supply a cooler and pipe work if you want but not hoses....

like i said i'm only tying to help if people would rather go buy a ebay jobby or pay £700 for a forge go for it, but i sure aint doing either!

 

[vetch]

Hoses are easy to source, if I was paying £350, I would want more than just the IC, I would want piping specific to the S3. And a group buy is a good idea. Im up for it, but I would like to know what I will be getting for my money.

 

[1animal1]

id be up for a group buy.... i acknoledge the quality of the forge item although i think its using a sledge hammer to crack a nut with the money they are asking..... i was going to attempt myself with an ebay item, mikalor clips and an ebay 3" (i rthink it was) pipe kit with 3-4" reduces to clamp onto 4inch FMIC.....

i would pay extra if i knew it was going to fit with no issues.... Paul count me in fella if your doing... any other kit also considered chaps

 

[Dani_B19]

Id be interested in agroup buy but like vtech id want the full kit ready to take the smic out an the fmic, in fact isnt paul seeing about making akit later in the summer.

 

[Lenny Benford]

What you want to do is fit this http://www.snowperformance.net/products.php?p_cat=158 with your FMIC, if you want extra cooling in the summer months, fitting one on my car within the next few weeks i will try to post up some before and after IC temps at some point.

 

[MAD_Adamski]

i see your points but i think your being unrealistic with the price reguarding the whole kit. the conversion is simple by the looks of the S3 cooler in centre and 4 hoses and 2 alloy pipes as said i'm sure i could supply the cooler and 'possibly' the alloy pipes too as alloy bends are not cheap unless you do what forge do and cut and weld which again ruins flow! But AH do not supply hoses...

i'm not going out my way to make this happen i'm trying to help.... But if people are going to moan about hoses and price i'll just get myself one done as dont want the hassle...

 

[<tuffty/>]

I'm not too fussed about pipes and hoses at this time. I was planning on hooking mine up to the OEM hoses where they join the current SMICs so minimal pipe work required. I will upgrade the hoses as funds allow but for me its more about getting an IC that will fit and do the job with minimal amount of modding as I want a stealth fitment.

I offered up the FMIC I have and while I think it will fit with a bit of work I am concerned about the amount of messing about I may have to do with the bumper to get it to fit so I may be looking at a different core to do the job.

If you can get AH to build one at a good price then I may be up for it but not sure I would want to pay more than 200/250 for it tbh.

<tuffty/>

 

[1animal1]

adamski your help is welcomed, what sort of price are you looking though?..... after reading yet another FMIC thread im unconvinced that you need superslick pipework to do this conversion effectively.... as long as i can reduce my inlet temps to a decent degree im happy, im not going to go spending another £100-£200 to get it down another 2-3 degrees

 

[vetch]

I'd like to echo the comments made above, we aren't running 600bhp skylines or such like. As explained by Ess-Three and others, I want to get my inlet temps down to the point where I'm getting consistent power in all driving conditions, for as long as possible.

Spending big on an IC would be a waste of money for the application its intended for, ie a close to standard S3. Well for me it would be.

It looks like we have at least 3 or 4 people who are genuinely interested in purchasing a FMIC, sooo... its over to Paul or Adam to see if they can help?

 

[MAD_Adamski]

i'm more than willing to call him up he may have even done a S3 one before but dnt know until i ask him!? But 1 thing i will say i know we all like a easy life BUT i personally feel the best fitment will be the same as the forge cutting the alloy front bar thingy as this will give AS mentioned the stealth fitment and no bumper fiddling i'm pretty sure... BUT the cooler on my cossie regular hard driving gave me ACT's of low 20's! in the heat in traffic i'm sure it went up to high 30's.... up santa pod the highest i ever saw mine go was when it was 20-30deg outside and i was queueing for a run and it went to high 50's... BUT i know alex (the owner) would not spec or produce a cooler that wouldnt do the goods... As said he is the only one people like prodrive + ralliart and even bigger names like in F1 approach as they know his products ALWAYS come up trumps .......

But i can happily call him tomorrow and see what he can do!!!


i know what spec i'll need for my TDi it'll be slightly different to you guys as mine will need a pipe running from the end tank over the top so i'll loose some depth but my Tdi will never be going near the 300HP figure so deph is not a major issue as long as we can use the 60mm core minimum...

i've seen the forge TDI one which runs twin pass which is ok similar idea to mine BUT twin pass is nowhere near as good as single so i'm sure even with the different design mine should perform better....

 

[Dani_B19]

Im shortly goin tobe upgrading the tip on my car and whyll im at it im thinking about upgrading the upper boost hoses swell but when i come to get a fmic will these be useable or will they just be no good due to the new pipe work of the fmic?

Dan

 

[james0808]

id be up for a group buy.... i acknoledge the quality of the forge item although i think its using a sledge hammer to crack a nut with the money they are asking..... i was going to attempt myself with an ebay item, mikalor clips and an ebay 3" (i rthink it was) pipe kit with 3-4" reduces to clamp onto 4inch FMIC.....

Thats got to be the worst kit anyone could make,especially on a K04 S3.

adamski your help is welcomed, what sort of price are you looking though?..... after reading yet another FMIC thread im unconvinced that you need superslick pipework to do this conversion effectively.... as long as i can reduce my inlet temps to a decent degree im happy, im not going to go spending another £100-£200 to get it down another 2-3 degrees

Its not just about inlet temps though,with some good end tanks and pipes you will have a faster spooling turbo producing more torque,which equates to a faster car.

 

[1animal1]

james you said yourself the ebay pipe kits were crap in that the pipe joiners were flimsy....my plan was to buy decent ones....as for the solid metal bends in these kits, i cant see why they would cause any issues.... connect them via silicone joins using mikalor clips which from what Glen has said are one of the best on the market....

the pipe work is 3" already so really no point in increasing to 4" till you hit the FMIC otherwise your increasing surface area unessesarily and in areas that arent going to be cooled... (assuming the fmic is 4" pipework which the ones ive looked at are)

cant really see what your getting at, you may aswell slate most on this post as this has been the debated choice because of cost vs benefit.....

more torque yes? faster car with an FMIC? think you've just left yourself wide open there kidda

 

[james0808]

james you said yourself the ebay pipe kits were crap in that the pipe joiners were flimsy....my plan was to buy decent ones....as for the solid metal bends in these kits, i cant see why they would cause any issues.... connect them via silicone joins using mikalor clips which from what Glen has said are one of the best on the market....

the pipe work is 3" already so really no point in increasing to 4" till you hit the FMIC otherwise your increasing surface area unessesarily and in areas that arent going to be cooled... (assuming the fmic is 4" pipework which the ones ive looked at are)

cant really see what your getting at, you may aswell slate most on this post as this has been the debated choice because of cost vs benefit.....

more torque yes? faster car with an FMIC? think you've just left yourself wide open there kidda

The idea is not to go to big in the pipework at all. 3" is ridiculous on a S3 and as for 4",are you going for 1000bhp or something?

More torque and a faster spool doesnt mean a faster car?My car is alot faster now with 375lb/ft than it was with only 300lb/ft,simple common sence,so why am i left wide open then einstein?

 

[MAD_Adamski]

ok guys just got of the phone to my mate at AH, just from the pictures he recognises the core is a chinese core and will not perform as good as his cores! he said as i confirmed this shhould be easy to make and he is more than willing to make some up for about half the price! undure yet on EXACT figures until he spec's it but it is basic and ehe guarentee's the buying WILL be happy so at a guess i think the first cooler will be £350!? then from there if you can get either a group buy or something i may be able to get you anywhere from 50-75 quid knocked off hopefully :thumbsup:...

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[1animal1]

The idea is not to go to big in the pipework at all. 3" is ridiculous on a S3 and as for 4",are you going for 1000bhp or something?

More torque and a faster spool doesnt mean a faster car?My car is alot faster now with 375lb/ft than it was with only 300lb/ft,simple common sence,so why am i left wide open then einstein?

I prob have the sizes wrong, was ages ago when i checked...although my intention was to run the same size pipes through to the FMIC then increase to mate up with the chosen fmic which was the same proportions as the forge 'einstein'

And as for your car being more powerful....your talking total and utter tripe, AND we have been here before on a previous thread i recall.... your simply maintaining the power you have for longer..... comon dont tell me your really that thick...arent you supposed to be a mechanic

 

[<tuffty/>]

ok guys just got of the phone to my mate at AH, just from the pictures he recognises the core is a chinese core and will not perform as good as his cores! he said as i confirmed this shhould be easy to make and he is more than willing to make some up for about half the price! undure yet on EXACT figures until he spec's it but it is basic and ehe guarentee's the buying WILL be happy so at a guess i think the first cooler will be £350!? then from there if you can get either a group buy or something i may be able to get you anywhere from 50-75 quid knocked off hopefully :thumbsup:...

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£275 seems a nice price, are they using your car to get the fitting and sizes right? I would suspect the crash bar will still need to be trimmed but for me I would want to make sure I can keep the the fogs an minimal trimming of the bumper (if at all) will secure it for me.... pipes and hoses can come later.

As I mentioned before, the ideal fitment for me would be that you pick up from where the OEM hoses fit into the SMICs and down to the FMIC with minimal extra pipes/hoses retaining OEM look of the front of the car. I am not inot showing off my mods tbh....

If they can anodise it black too that would be perfect

<tuffty/>

 

[ash_pearce]

hi jacking slightly here but when choosing the size of your intercooling piping what are people basing there decisions on? ie larger piping will surely add lag and smaller piping will boost quicker?

Trying to gather some 'good' info before buying anything.

thanks

 

[<tuffty/>]

I am planning on sticking to the same size as OEM, can't see any reason to go larger or smaller tbh.

<tuffty/>

 

[ash_pearce]

fair point its a good bet that audi did there homework to produce a happy medium anyway.

 

[james0808]

I prob have the sizes wrong, was ages ago when i checked...although my intention was to run the same size pipes through to the FMIC then increase to mate up with the chosen fmic which was the same proportions as the forge 'einstein'

And as for your car being more powerful....your talking total and utter tripe, AND we have been here before on a previous thread i recall.... your simply maintaining the power you have for longer..... comon dont tell me your really that thick...arent you supposed to be a mechanic

We are talking torque not power which are two different things.
Let me make it simple so even you can understand,lower inlet temps from a better intercooler will allow for more ignition advance making more torque.

Just out of curiosity what are you talking about "my car is more powerful?"

 

[1animal1]

i made a comment based on what my plans were and obviously got the sizes of the pipework wrong.... i dont confess to be a mechanic and never have, the majority of my knowledge is based upon opinions of people on here and people i know - factual knowledge where possible.....

now i may have gotten something wrong in my statement, to be fair i really dont care that your getting severely anal on the whole thing....

torque would make your car more powerful surely? or am i choosing the wrong word??

 

[james0808]

Not really sure what word you mean.
If you are going to make your own kit up i would go with something like a 2" hotside pipe,2.5" cold side and 2.5" inlet/outlet.With a decent core you will still get a fast spool and should see a nice gain in your torque curve.

 

[MAD_Adamski]

OK GUYS HERE'S THE REPLY!!!!

Hi Adam,
Looking at the intercooler and the core size we can do the first one for £350.00 then when we have patterns ready, should go down to about £300.00.

Should be OK for 500 BHP with our cores.

All the best, Alex


MY INPUT :-

THE PIPES OFF IT WILL BE OEM AS THIS WORKS BEST FACT.


As i said in my earlier posts the crash bar will need trimming IMO for the best fitment personally would recommend this as sometimes mods like will allow the best fitment with not much difference to the car really.....

Also as said the cooler will be supply price only no hoses or pipes...


TO fit the cooler you'll need prob couple of bolts and washers and nuts and some rubber to allow it slight movement i 'think' 2 45deg pipes and 4 hoses which will cost you under £50 for all that!!!!

I OWN A TDI NOT A S3 altho i am sure alex will get it right first time as he has lots of pics now....

SO its time for people to put there money where their mouth is then

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[vetch]

I'll have one for £300, it would be unfair to have one person pay £350 and everyone else pay less. So, heres the list of interested parties - this list is for people who have the money now. Once we have final numbers, we can work out the cost.

1.Vetch (Stu)

 

[MAD_Adamski]

if we can get 10 that would be great, i'll be the 10th with my TDI cooler :icon_thumright:

 

[badger5]

Very true,but with good end tank design its possible to diffuse(slow)the air so it can spread more across the whole core and then the nozzle(outlet) will speed it up again,instead of hitting a brick wall like this.

Lots of air scrabbling around for the next easiest route,not good.
Here is a pic of a good end tank design off a nissan r33gtr

A bit different to the forge effort.



In reality...It does.

this picture would be the outlet on the inlet tho right?
I had Forge make me an S3 sized core, but 80mm thick core and 63mm end pipes for an A3 BT build I am doing for a customer. (GT2871R)
The inlet to the core has a deflector plate to distribute the airflow to the top of the core, like my racecars core does.
Yours is a picture of the outlet or they decided not to fit this on the smaller piped S3 one I guess

The deeper cored one Forge made for my customer A3 quattro build

turbo build which is goign to be blowing thru this..

and here with the 007 inlet manifold and R32 t'body

I sat Pauls (tuftyman) core next to the Forge one, and its same depth, but the Ebay one is 600x300 size core, 5/8ths bigger in size than the Forge one, and comes with cast end tanks and 75mm pipe ends.

 

[james0808]

OK GUYS HERE'S THE REPLY!!!!

Hi Adam,
Looking at the intercooler and the core size we can do the first one for £350.00 then when we have patterns ready, should go down to about £300.00.

Should be OK for 500 BHP with our cores.[/B]

Sounds good but not many S3 owners are aiming for 500 bhp,cant they do a smaller/cheaper option suitable for 300 - 350bhp to cover 99% of the owners.

MY INPUT :-

THE PIPES OFF IT WILL BE OEM AS THIS WORKS BEST FACT.

Never heard any one think that old soft rubber pipes are best.
Why are oem the best then,what is so special about them?
When i put a fmic on my A4 tdi the oem pipes were soft as sh!t.
Has onyone got a picture of the boost pipes on an S3?

 

[1animal1]

Badger,..... what is your view on the forge versus the ebay item that Paul has.....? sorry if you've pointed that out already..... in english for a poor uneducated northerner plz

MAD do you have any pictures of what the core is likely to look like....if im paying £300 at the side of £100 i'd like to know what the difference is likely to be before i commit.... also pipes will cost more than £50 surely...it isnt a simple fit on the S3 unless your willing to loose the fogs which most aren't prepared to do, including me...

also any price on having it anodised black.....

 

[james0808]

Pipes,clamps and couplers will cost around £200 for decent ones,could be less if you go 2.5" from turbo to intercooler and from intercooler to throttle as you might get away with one pipe kit.

 

[MAD_Adamski]

Sounds good but not many S3 owners are aiming for 500 bhp,cant they do a smaller/cheaper option suitable for 300 - 350bhp to cover 99% of the owners.



Never heard any one think that old soft rubber pipes are best.
Why are oem the best then,what is so special about them?
When i put a fmic on my A4 tdi the oem pipes were soft as sh!t.
Has onyone got a picture of the boost pipes on an S3?

Not being rude james but if you clearly knew what you were talking about you wouldn't have posted a reply.... let me put things clear....

BY OEM PIPES I MEANT AS HAVE SAID IN EVERY POST WE ARE ''NOT'' SUPPLYING HOSES THE ''PIPES'' ON THE COOLER WILL BE OEM SIZE AS THIS WORKS BEST FLOW WISE FACT! PEOPLE WHO GO 3'' ARE SIMPLY DAFT AND KNOW NOTHING ABOUT FLOW...

OK RIGHT AS FOR MAKING IT SMALLER WHY? IF YOU READ CLEARLY AND UNDERSTOOD WHAT ALEX IS SAYING HE IS SAYING IT WILL COPE WITH KEEPING THE ACT'S LOW UPTO ''500BHP'' THEN IT WILL NOT PERFORM AS BEST... ITS THE CORE AND DESIGN THAT MAKES THIS POSSIBLE... SO OK LETS MAKE THINGS SMALLER AS THAT WILL CUT DOWN THE PERFORMANCE AND GIVE THE AIR A SMALLER SPACE TO TRAVEL THROUGH AND MAKE THE COOLER WORK HARDER THEREFORE IT WILL ONLY PERFORM TO SAY 300-350BHP.....

THE CORES ARE PICKED BY ALEX AND WILL BE VERY SIMILER TO MY COSSIE CORE AND THE ONE PICTURED ON MY MATES FIESTA SO THEY WILL WHAT WILL BE USED...

I'LL SLAP IT ON THE TABLE HERE I HAVE GOT YOU THE BEST COOLER YOU CAN BUY FOR HALF THE PRICE HERE AND PEOPLE ARE STILL MOANING... HE GUARENTEE'S IT'LL WORK WAY BETTER THAN ANY EBAY CRAP OR THE FORGE ITEM... NOW I HAVE GOT DISCOUNT FOR LOADS OF COSSIE OWNERS WHO HAVE BOUGHT COOLERS ETC AND SPEND £300-350...
SO MY POINT IS I HAVE GOT THIS HALF PRICE SO IF COSSIE OWNERS ARE WILLING TO SPEND DOES THAT MAKE S3 OWNERS TIGHT???

Its like this i'm doing people a favour take it or leave it as tbh as said i'm losing my patience with ungrateful people get them something half the price and they still moan.... offers there take it or leave it....

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[MAD_Adamski]

Also just so everyone knows alex said the ebay one is a crap core and will barely support a remapped S3... BUT hey what does he know!?

 

[1animal1]

thats fair comment Mad and i assure you im not tight...but i dont go spending three times the money on something without checking it out first, now take this as a moan or not but in order to sell an item you simply cannot quote 'Alex says'.... this isnt logic, that is stupidity as none of us know Alex, im sure hes brilliant at his job, but in these circles he is not known.... this means you need to do something else to get our trust on this item, i asked to see a clip of the core...am i being unreasonable?

 

[<tuffty/>]

For £275/£300 and able to retain the fogs, I'm in

<tuffty/>