focus st vs s3 anyone else raced one?!!

[Prawn]

A stage 2 S3 is going to be a good match for a Focus RS. After all none have ever made the 300bhp they were claimed to have. Majority make anywhere between 265-280.They arent these not to be f`d with beasts everyone thinks they are.

Interestingly, I made that same realisation a while back.

Back when the RS was new and the old A3 was in it's ko3S prime, I had a race against an RS in southend one saturday night, and much to my surprise I didn't get anywhere near as utterly ruined as I expected to.....

up top 80mph or so it only pulled about a car's length. beyond that it pulled ahead happily, but I expected much, MUCH more from it.

I'd heard that most make 280ish on a decent rollers, didn't realise some even went below that figure!

 

[Oranoco]

The lack of power issue was resolved a fair while ago by Ford with a revised map. I have seen many stock cars make very close to their claimed book figures, typically 285-295 and a couple nudging over the 300. A couple of minor tweeks sees real figures of 350. My friends company now offers a 425 conversion that is selling very well. They are a quick car with loads of torque, you would need a special stage 2 S3 to keep with an honest stock RS. As for Clio comment, it's a lighter car and a superb chassis (I've driven one), it's not a case of the RS not being that quick, more a case of the Clio being so damned capable through the twisty stuff.

 

[Dane]

Guess I need some bigger downpipes then if a 425 bhp kit flies out. On a less expensive note destroyed an st like it was standing still on weds morning, big old exhaust and map at least, but you'd kinda hope that would happen lol.

 

[Jason.s]

Yeah but the RS isnt a lazy lard **** on the handling front either is it and neither was the MK1. Its not like the VXR`s that have big power and ****e handling. Ford did a reasonable job on both from what i understand.

Fair enough that its been revised now but prior to that they were making poor power and the people on the MPS owners club were loving it lol. Surrey rolling road had never seen one make over 280 and even mountune said the same.

 

[Jimgrim77]

A stage 2 S3 is going to be a good match for a Focus RS. After all none have ever made the 300bhp they were claimed to have. Majority make anywhere between 265-280. Anyone ever see the Autocar video of a Clio 200 racing an RS on the Millbrook Alpine circuit? Focus could only get away up hill and even then it wasnt romping it. Clio was all over the RS throughout the whole course. They arent these not to be f`d with beasts everyone thinks they are.

Ha!...I remember that and agree with you.

I have to say I wasn't really aware of the focus' capabilities. Its the torque i was surprised at and should make make any standard s3 8l driver think twice and save face.

 

[N4THW]

mates got one, sounds awesome, pops a lot and i like the interior myself.. niiice. pic of it below with my mates cars, don't see how its chavvy at all (Sadly the a3 wasn't there lol)






* on the note of sleepers * the last 3 cars in the pic below r qucik. rs turbo engine in the escort, 2ltr stripped out in the others

 

[Dane]

mates got one, sounds awesome, pops a lot and i like the interior myself.. niiice. pic of it below with my mates cars, don't see how its chavvy at all (Sadly the a3 wasn't there lol)



* on the note of sleepers * the last 3 cars in the pic below r qucik. rs turbo engine in the escort, 2ltr stripped out in the others

ah ha so you know Cal and Callum O'boyle then?

 

[N4THW]

ah ha so you know Cal and Callum O'boyle then?

yeah mate out with them most weekends - small world lol. how do you know em'?

 

[Dane]

yeah mate out with them most weekends - small world lol. how do you know em'?

Friends of friends mate.

 

[Prawn]

Just been messing about looking at power:weight ratios,

911 C4S - 242bhp/ton
My A3 - 265bhp/ton

Sweet! I'm going Porsche hunting!

 

[Westy]

Just been messing about looking at power:weight ratios,

911 C4S - 242bhp/ton
My A3 - 265bhp/ton

Sweet! I'm going Porsche hunting!

Stock S3 100bhp/ton lol

 

[Jimgrim77]

Just been messing about looking at power:weight ratios,

911 C4S - 242bhp/ton
My A3 - 265bhp/ton

Sweet! I'm going Porsche hunting!

sh*t!...using that calculation i'm onto a hiding to nothing at only 230bhp per ton!

Might need a rethink...

 

[Oranoco]

911 C4S - 242bhp/ton
My A3 - 265bhp/ton

Exactly the same as my old Escort mate that will make for a very quick A3

 

[aragorn]

Some more figures for comparison to put things into perspective:

Stock B5 RS4: 223hp/ton
Stock B7 RS4: 241hp/ton
Stock R8 V8: 266hp/ton

Aston Martin DB9: 260hp/ton

Nissan R35 GT-R: 271hp/ton

 

[Dane]

Aragorn are b5 rs4's around 1700kgs? if so 274bhp/tonne

Without 3 inch dp's, further eyebrows

 

[Prawn]

Some more figures for comparison to put things into perspective:

Stock B5 RS4: 223hp/ton
Stock B7 RS4: 241hp/ton
Stock R8 V8: 266hp/ton

Aston Martin DB9: 260hp/ton

Nissan R35 GT-R: 271hp/ton

These sort of figures make me giggle like a school kit just thinking about it!

At the 329bhp that Niki mapped my car to, i'll have 299bhp/ton! remove the aircon and stereo and it goes to over 300/ton.

Quite scary really, I wonder how that'll transfer to the real world

 

[Dane]

These sort of figures make me giggle like a school kit just thinking about it!

At the 329bhp that Niki mapped my car to, i'll have 299bhp/ton! remove the aircon and stereo and it goes to over 300/ton.

Quite scary really, I wonder how that'll transfer to the real world

Its going to be mental mate!

 

[aragorn]

Dane: yeh ~1700kg. The exact weight of your car as it left the factory is on the service sticker.

 

[Jimgrim77]

These sort of figures make me giggle like a school kit just thinking about it!

At the 329bhp that Niki mapped my car to, i'll have 299bhp/ton! remove the aircon and stereo and it goes to over 300/ton.

Quite scary really, I wonder how that'll transfer to the real world

Hopefully not into a hedge!!

These figures are making me feel even worse very inept. It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

 

[Hammy999]

The 996 C4s is down at 218 bhp per ton so guess that would be no contest for yours. However make sure you get the right one remember all Porsches look the same !!!!

 

[superkarl]

Some more figures for comparison to put things into perspective:

Stock B5 RS4: 223hp/ton
Stock B7 RS4: 241hp/ton
Stock R8 V8: 266hp/ton

Aston Martin DB9: 260hp/ton

Nissan R35 GT-R: 271hp/ton

this isnt the be all and end all though guys, as we all know the GTR will pretty much destroy anything on the roads today, despite its power to weight.
its all a comn=bination of power and torque delivery, how useable it is, and how well it can transmit it to the road.
even if my s3 had 300/ton, i wouldnt be stupid enough to go hunting gtr's thinking i was going to win

 

[Westy]

After saying I hadn't seen many RSs around I saw 3 mk2s today! I wasn't goin to bother trying it on with any of them as I was lugging round a freshly refurbed cylinder head in the boot

 

[Jason.s]

They are quite a few round Bedford and a couple of modded ST's. I won't be touching them though with only 200

 

[Oranoco]

Have just got back from a track day at Bedford Autodrome. Went out in aspin with my mate and his 425bhp RS, it puts it down very very well indeed without drama, it could almost be 4x4. Grip grip grip and when you think it's on the edge it just grips some more. A truely epic car.

I did my bit for the Audi fraternity though and gave my A4 an absolute kicking all day. Apart from the 312mm brake conversion not being up to the job the car was faultless. Once I've sorted myself out I'll upload some pics.

 

[Prawn]

Right, where can I find an RS that's up for a blast? I need to test this thing out!

 

[StaceyS3]

I keep searching for rs's saw one today and he just wouldn't play have seen the same one a couple of times and never been interested whi h is a shame as would love a play with one

 

[brasiliangringo]

A vxr or whatever its called has no sex appeal imo. It may be quicker a line, but I'd rather take my time in a leather recaro clad s3 interior. Get in to a vauxhall after owning an audi and you will want to get straight back out again!

 

[Oranoco]

Oi, my company car is currently a Vauxhall and.........












I cannot argue with you at all. lol. I've been in nicer festival portaloos

 

[Mr C]

First of all, sorry for the revival. I came across this thread fairly randomly and have spent quite a while reading through. Sad I know.

I'm not going to address all the badge snob comments etc; frankly I couldn't give two ****s about a badge. A good car is a good car, and i'd even tootle about in a Lada if it was half decent.

As you might have guessed I'm an ST driver, I've done a fair bit to it (mods in my signature) and I'm currently running 325bhp and 402lb ft. 0-60 time isn't amazing, however it's good enough for a fwd. 5.7, could prob go faster, but the st's driveshafts are made out of chocolate and I can't be ***** landing up with an 800 pound bill because I wanted the biggest ****. Mid range is where it's at with the st's though. 402lb ft means 50-100 goes in an instant.

Anyway, I thought I'd clear a few things up that I've read in the thread

What's the wheel spin like on one of these with a remap? I've seen a few FWD cars with over 300bhp and they spin in 3rd and sometimes 4th!!

With good tyres wheelspin is not a problem for me in the dry. Any gear I can just plant my foot and it grips.

The wet is a different story. Planting my foot at low rpm in any gear, including 6th, and my wheels spin, mainly because I have 402lb ft at 2500rpm. I have to be very progressive with the throttle in the wet, and whereas you guys can probably accelerate fully straight away, it takes me a second or two to apply full throttle. Once it grips it's fine though.

I was sat here reading this post and thought you might be interested.

The reason for decimation was most likely this:-

This is a new standard Focus ST which has been remapped. Volvo 2.5 litre engines coupled with turbo = a bucket load of torque and enough bhp to wipe the floor with most S3 8Ls.

Even with the figures that i'm pushing out, i'd be thinking twice...a mapped ST is a worthy adversary despite it giant frame.

Definitely agree with the mapped st comment, however the graph you have picked is fairly shocking for an ST. It makes **** all torque before 4000rpm, when the st's strength is its low down torque. Here's an example graph of the map i'm running, and most st remaps are similar in shape, just not power lol.


image hosting

I'd heard that most make 280ish on a decent rollers, didn't realise some even went below that figure!

. After all none have ever made the 300bhp they were claimed to have. Majority make anywhere between 265-280.

The first rs's had software problems, and like you say, didn't make full power. This was all sorted by a software update, and standard rs's now make the claimed power. Just remember that there are not many standard ones about anymore, with several pushing 500+

Just been messing about looking at power:weight ratios,

911 C4S - 242bhp/ton
My A3 - 265bhp/ton

Sweet! I'm going Porsche hunting!

I've done this before too mate. Mines 250/ton, but quite a bit of torque too, 305/ton. Cl63 is 248/ton, bentley conti is 244/ton, aston martin v8 vantage 233/ton etc etc. I do get a perverse pleasure in toying with porsche, bmw, merc etc drivers who insist on sitting on my ****, flashing their lights.

Not my video, but this is a 400bhp st taking on an r8 v10. When the r8 starts accelerating first he gets decimated, but watch what happens when they both start at the same time.



400bhp bhp st vs Lamborghini Gallardo

 

[superkarl]

you were BORRRREEDDD!

im guessing yours isnt a standard turbo at 325hp?
or a happy dyno which we can expect. dyno lottery and all that.
epic epic torque delivery, just impressive, so soon, prob why they eat clutches though.
my girlfriend has an ST, we had a play the other day (play in our cars) and its fun. im hoping to take hers to a safe 'stage 2' level and see about 270-280hp, not going stupid with boost. progress is slow though because i spend all my cash on my car lol. so far she has an induction kit comprised of many silicone replacement hoses and a huge jetex, and a decat. Downpipe next, then FMIC, then maybe convince her to get it to a good tuner.

thanks for the thread revival btw. no one desputes a quick car.
some people on here wuld like to think the S3 is the only quick thing on the road though.

 

[s33nyboy12]

I just want to add I had focus st 265 bhp awesome, loved it sooo much and more fun than s3 IMO,

Just a shame about the wheel spin, all the time. Slightest damp..... Spin spin spin. Quattro equals no spin

I did however keep up with an s3 8p to a ridiculous speed (70mph) ..."........

 

[s33nyboy12]

Have to laugh superkarl as I think last to discuss these two cars were me and you.

I'm still a fan of both! And jealous you have both

 

[superkarl]

Have to laugh superkarl as I think last to discuss these two cars were me and you.

I'm still a fan of both! And jealous you have both

haha. im a lover of all cars. yeh i dislike some, but all cars have plus points, well, most.
i dont own the ST. but i do get to drive it, which i dont mind. no doubt the engine has potential!

 

[s33nyboy12]

Yeh the engine is awesome, I have a friend got a Volvo s60 r awd running 400 bhp same engine and the noise is amazing!! But with the obvious advantage AWD lol....... I think Audi recently switched to 2.5 5 cylinder engine in rs3 and ttrs ?.????

 

[Mr C]

you were BORRRREEDDD!

im guessing yours isnt a standard turbo at 325hp?
or a happy dyno which we can expect. dyno lottery and all that.
epic epic torque delivery, just impressive, so soon, prob why they eat clutches though.
my girlfriend has an ST, we had a play the other day (play in our cars) and its fun. im hoping to take hers to a safe 'stage 2' level and see about 270-280hp, not going stupid with boost. progress is slow though because i spend all my cash on my car lol. so far she has an induction kit comprised of many silicone replacement hoses and a huge jetex, and a decat. Downpipe next, then FMIC, then maybe convince her to get it to a good tuner.

thanks for the thread revival btw. no one desputes a quick car.
some people on here wuld like to think the S3 is the only quick thing on the road though.

No lol, not quite standard. Full mongoose turbo back, Ds Cais, radtec intercooler, radtec radiator, oil cooler, collins stage 2 map, bilstein b16's, whiteline rear arb, full poly bushes.... errr, probably missed a few. How do I make a sig btw?

No mate, standard turbo. Up until 8 months ago 300bhp was around the limit for the standard turbo, however the latest maps are derived from rs maps and allow tweaks which aren't available on a traditional st map. 340ish is around the limit now, and a bigger turbo is needed to go higher. The stoc has quite a few members running 420+, and doing 7 minute 50 laps of the nurburgring, but they're either running rs engines, or have bigger turbos.

Boost is kept to a very reasonable level of 1.0-1.1 bar on my map, which is lower than the older st maps and I still make more power.

I'd take your mrs to collins in congleton if i were you mate. One of the best (if not the best) st tuners in the country, and isnt "that" far for you.

Just a shame about the wheel spin, all the time. Slightest damp..... Spin spin spin. Quattro equals no spin

While it's definitely true that a powerful st can be a handful in the wet, good tyres and a good choice of map can make a massive difference. As long as you're careful with the throttle wheelspin shouldn't be a problem, but obviously it's much easier with the audi.

Wouldn't say no spin though, I just don't think you're trying hard enough.

 

[s33nyboy12]

Handful in the wet....... Handful in corners! Knightmare in wet corners!

Also my best mate owns a tyre company (dustcap notts) so I was privileged enough to try every set of tyres on front...... Goodyear assym 2 was best IMO. Potenzas 2nd, conti sport 3 ok, falkens were rubbish, parada 2 even worse.

And yes when I try hard enough as you put it I can spin the wheels , but that's at my choice not the lack of traction in st......

Before I got rid of mine I was pricing up Quaiffe LSD and rs clutch plus wider rs front wheels to better the traction
Power = pointless if you can't put it down to Tarmac!

 

[Mr C]

Handful in the wet....... Handful in corners! Knightmare in wet corners!

Yes in the wet you have to be careful, but progressive throttle pressure eliminates spin completely mate. Like I said before, map choice also makes a massive difference.

But handful in corners? Sorry mate but that simply isn't the case. Saying that i've not driven a standard st in a while, and mine has had quite a bit thrown at it suspension wise.

Also my best mate owns a tyre company (dustcap notts) so I was privileged enough to try every set of tyres on front...... Goodyear assym 2 was best IMO. Potenzas 2nd, conti sport 3 ok, falkens were rubbish, parada 2 even worse.

Tyres are a very subjective thing though and in reality the differences between top spec tyres is not as great as you'd think. Obviously no name ditch finders dont come close to the top ones. I have eagle f1's as they seem the best to me.

And yes when I try hard enough as you put it I can spin the wheels , but that's at my choice not the lack of traction in st......

Thats the point though. YOu can choose to spin the wheels when you jam your foot down. It's exactly the same in the ST. If I slam my foot it spins, but being progressive means no spin.

The only difference for me is that in the dry i can floor it from 2000rpm with no issues, but when its wet I have to be gradual until 3800 rpm, by which time im at full throttle.

Before I got rid of mine I was pricing up Quaiffe LSD and rs clutch plus wider rs front wheels to better the traction
Power = pointless if you can't put it down to Tarmac!

I have the rs clutch and quaife mate. The diff made a massive difference for "on the edge" driving. Much easier to put power down mid corner.

You're right, power is pointless if you cant apply it, but I can apply it fine. No traction issues in the dry, and have to be a bit more careful in the wet.

 

[s33nyboy12]

I'm still and always will be a massive fan of the focus st, but I just think it's a shame they need £6k chucking at them to get them to new s3 drivability levels ........ It sounds like you've spent a lot on some good worthwhile mods. But I just don't like having to hesitate my right foot, I like planting it and bang witchcraft happens and I'm gone like the wind........!

I'm lucky to have owned 24 cars and driven god knows how many others and have to say any modded s3 or st is a far cry from a good standard impreza 330s , evo 320, and e46 m3 my personal favourite.

As you said your 0-60 s 5.7 , a new s3 with a remap is approx 5.2. I'd love to hear a voice clip of yours though the 5cyl is a beautiful note especially on over run popping and banging.

 

[Gops]

There's a remapped st at the place I work. We had a play and tbh there wasnt pulling between us both only until quite higher when he pulled slightly but then stopped and I pulled slightly, now he had plenty of room to keep going but I guess like you said its the variance in the maps. I do love the sound, wish the s3 sounded meaty like that! And 340bhp from a stock turbo! Jeez I wish I could get that, these old cars now, alot to get more power from it!