AndyMac
Retired from service
"theres bad drivers everywhere but very few of them are in HGV's"
So why do they cause so much death on our roads?
So why do they cause so much death on our roads?
"theres bad drivers everywhere but very few of them are in HGV's"
So why do they cause so much death on our roads?
Well if you drive so much then you can't be very observant, either that or you are very very tolerant of other road users.Well since October 07 Ive clocked up approx 65000 miles (in just my LWB Sprinter, I could probably easily add on another 15000 miles which I have done in my Vivaro and a Fabia VRS Ive just sold). Previous to that, from say Sept 07 back to Feb 04, I did on average another 50000 per annum in western Europe, Iraq, Kuwait and Cyprus. That was in RHD mk5 Golfs and 8p Audi A3's plus LHD Vivaro's, Pajeros and Discoverys. I hold full UK, German and Cyprus driving licenses in addition to all the MOD stuff I also had to have so while I wouldnt claim to be an expert driver, I know what I know.
Chances are either someones flashed them to let them go, theres someone trying to enter the A14 and they have moved over or they have seen a space and gone for it. Failing all three like my original post said theres the occasional crap lorry driver but the majority of bad drivers on the roads these days are in cars, they dont drive for a living and they are in a hurry.
(Also this is my personal rant to all the morons out there. Instead of ******* round with your mobile or your ipod, chatting to your mates or staring at your Sat Nav, learn to read the road. Look ahead to possible dangers. When I approach a slip road I always clock whats about to come onto the motorway, see if its the feds or a truck or a car towing a caravan then I look at the implications. Who is going to need to move over? Is there enough gaps? If Ive got room to move into the middle or fast lane will this make someone elses life a bit easier??? Or shall I just be a nob? Honestly *I think* its a no brainer but a large proportion of people out there have serious mental difficulties fathoming it out...)
When your sitting on the busy motorway in your A4 what can you see? **** all thats what, maybe two cars infront but thats it. If your in a van or a HGV, unless theres something really big infront of you, normally you can tell whats going on at least a mile infront just by the brakelights of the traffic ahead. So if your on a quiet bit of motorway and theres a truck up your **** then your going too slow, if your on a busy bit of motorway and theres a truck up your **** then hes keeping a steady speed and watching the traffic ahead or maybe your one of those idiots thats leaves a massive gap infront of you just so you dont have to change gear while the truck drivers attempting to not stall or have to rev the tits off his wagon.
The flipside of this is, knowing that it takes so long to get a HGV up to speed surely anyone intentionally or inconsiderately slowing them down should be treated with disdain or tailgated accordingly?
just try driving up the A34 any day of the week and see how long it takes for you to start swearing at inconsiderate HGV's trying to overtake each other on a dual carriageway going up a hill.
So why do they cause so much death on our roads?
Well if you drive so much then you can't be very observant, either that or you are very very tolerant of other road users.
Don't make out that truckers are angels, they're not.
Personal observations are fine, but there's a lot of people throwing a lot of 'facts' around. Where are they all coming from?
The only stuff I can find (but I've only given it about 15 minutes) that links accident to vehicle involvement is a report from Scotland.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/204167/0054362.pdf
On page 105 there is a table, which for 2006 (most recent available) quotes 172 HGV incidents (just in Scotland) where someone was killed or seriously injured, compared to 2842 for cars. It also gives million km driven per class (an I thought this country used miles?) as 2726 for HGVs and 34302 for cars. That gives an accident rate of 0.0631 incidents/million km for HGVs and 0.0828 incidents/million km for cars.
Doesn't take away from the observation that there could be some pretty simple improvements, but one thing that boils my balls is internet 'facts'.
In answer to your question my personal opinion is these are big vehicles and when something goes wrong that involves them it goes wrong bigtime so a bit of patience, caution and some common sense helps.
Let's add fuel to the debate....
Personal Rant/
Just yesterday whilst driving my mother's Honda Jazz Auto, I had to join onto the M6 with unexpected roadworks, I had one single lane and going uphill to reach my speed to join the motorway. I had to seriously do full throttle all the way up the hill just to get to 50mph and slot into the 50mph restricted moving traffic which happened to be between 2 HGV's. Now I had nowhere to go but to join the traffic, unless I wanted a one way trip into a load of bollards then down the hardshoulder, but the rear of the two HGV's had left me a 3 car length gap to get in! It was only with my experience and driving confidence that I would have joined the traffic @50MPH, I could see a lot of old and maybe inexperienced drivers braking hard at this point, then heading towards the bollards.
Anyways, once I had slotted in, I'm about a car length away from HGV infront, and the one in the rear thought it would be fun to accellerate upto my **** about a foot away in my rearview mirror. You can imagine how I'm feeling now with my whole frikin family on board, and if I was sandwiched, I doubt any of us could walk away unharmed!
I had no choice but to back off the throttle to around 45mph to build a bit of a gap between the HGV infront and myself for safety reasons, then the guy behind eventually backed off.
What was the purpose of the manouver by the HGV? I did nothing wrong, I tried my best to keep the traffic flowing in a low powered car, not too sure what other options I had at that moment in time?
Annoyed by this type of driving by a supposed professional driver when the conditions dictates you should be driving in a different manner.
I'm just annoyed at this particular HGV driver and not generalising them in anyway, it was poor driving from this individual from my point of view - To55er!
/Rant over
So its now the internets fault, really clutching at straws here aren't we?
1) Thanks for showing the data, now a lot of the stuff you have been saying has more credibility.
2) Did it come from the internet?
Personal observations are fine, but there's a lot of people throwing a lot of 'facts' around. Where are they all coming from?
The only stuff I can find (but I've only given it about 15 minutes) that links accident to vehicle involvement is a report from Scotland.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/204167/0054362.pdf
On page 105 there is a table, which for 2006 (most recent available) quotes 172 HGV incidents (just in Scotland) where someone was killed or seriously injured, compared to 2842 for cars. It also gives million km driven per class (an I thought this country used miles?) as 2726 for HGVs and 34302 for cars. That gives an accident rate of 0.0631 incidents/million km for HGVs and 0.0828 incidents/million km for cars.
Doesn't take away from the observation that there could be some pretty simple improvements, but one thing that boils my balls is internet 'facts'.
1) Thanks for showing the data, now a lot of the stuff you have been saying has more credibility.
2) Did it come from the internet?
There was a massive driver shortage in the UK a while back until our freinds across the english channel came over to help out.
There was a massive driver shortage in the UK a while back until our freinds across the english channel came over to help out.
That's all well and good, but when you consider that nobody drives a truck for pleasure/social reasons and that all truckers are 'professional drivers', that accident rate is simply shocking.
I wouldn't post "these are the facts" if it was based on heresay, apart from anything else I'd get flamed pretty quickly if I was making it up.
But yes I spend all day having to be friendly to largely idiots, so forgive me if I just cut to the chase on here, it's one way of blowing off steam.....
That was nice of them, now they can feck off back there cause they're one of the big offenders to as they just flaunt the laws & dont give a *****
Really you would find a 44 ton artic far more enjoyable than your Audi's !
Yeah of course I will, I'll go trade mine in right now so I can drive like a tosser aswell, not directed at you personally & you cant deny there are some real bad ones out there, but I've driven fair few miles around the country on all kinds roads & in some different vehicles, large vans, cars, smaller vans & the common thing for me to see if the total lack of respect lorry drivers have for other road users, yeah admittedly there are car drivers that dont make it easy for you at all, but thats no excuse to drive in the manner I see often, only just yesterday saw some stupid driving by few lorries, thank god I dont do so many miles anymore
I understand the way they have to drive given size but some are just blatantly bad & have the attitude of king of the road stay out of our way, of course I wouldnt argue with a truck but as Jojo experience shows which I've had happen to me many a time, they think its clever to be threatening, then when they actually drive over a car cause they're to close they're all sorry which doesnt help the poor family thats lost in the wreckage
Can't be doing with sugar coating everything for the benefit of those on here of a sensitive nature.
Yeah of course I will, I'll go trade mine in right now so I can drive like a tosser aswell
right, where is that sugar?
I know i'll just pop to sainsburys in my Scania R620 and get some...
I'm glad to say I have no idea what a "chewbacca defence" is. (grow up, it's a kids film)
Nothing to do with the debate really but since you raised it, experience is everything in driving, especially safety, that's why premiums get lower - durrrr!
The old timer could fall asleep at the wheel just as easily as the youngster could have been up all night popping pills etc etc.
"...and that is a real oversimplification" - its a generalisation I admit, but that's what we're dealing with here. HGV's kill twice as many people on the roads per mile, that's a fact, or is that oversimplifying again.
"Inconsiderate maybe, but is that in itself inherently dangerous?"
Well I'd like to recommend a spot on a motorway where an HGV will have an horrendous crash in the near future, but my crystal ball has just been "upgraded" with Vista so no longer works too well. My point was that in my experience (20 years, 20k miles per year) I will see an HGV driver behaving stupidly/inconsiderately/dangerously every day I'm on the road, so they're not these romantic "knights of the road" figures that some people seem to think. Yes, the same goes for bikes and cars, but the standard should be higher from professional drivers and I don't see it.
If you saw a police driver 2 inches off the bumper of an artic you'd be almost compelled to make a complaint. Yes everyone ***** up once in a while but it seems to be a little more than that with HGV's, and it's certainly got worse. Whether it's because of foreign drivers, cost cutting, congestion or all of the above, peak time lane restrictions on motorways would save lives, and that's pretty much a fact and well worth doing. Do it for a week, see what happens. I think there should be more trials. Have a day when all traffic lights are switched off, have a no motorway speed limit day - see what happens, doubt the powers that be would like the results.
with a leak lol