My Belated build thread

I've got a set of these to go on mine in due course. Partly for performance, but with an unhealthy dose of simply being a tart thrown in for good measure

Not convinced my 3D printed bell and bracket will be up to the task, but it does mean I can test fit it all before sending it off for machining out of something a bit more suitable :laugh:
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You sir! Are a legend…. Great minds and all that, be good to see how you get on with this. Please keep me updated


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Shall do! The speed the rest of the build is progressing at, should be about 2034.

Need to stick the back end in the air over the next couple of weeks to sort a few bits, so I'll try and get a test fit done then. I've a few tweaks I'd like to make to the bells for additional cooling/weight saving (not that the rears will remotely need the former of course) but if they bolt into place ok based on my crude number crunching, that's just semantics.

Equally, the CB auto brackets could be run with a 6mm spacer, but I prefer the idea of just doing it "right" first time.
 
Hi bud, yeah I’ve had both the 3” and 3.5” Zinram cat back exhaust systems. The 3” fitted well, little low from the centre section to the backbox, but ok. The 3.5” however they must use the same jig they make the 3” with because it was very low, to the point that Badger5 modified it a lot in order to make it fit perfectly. That said it’s still cheaper to buy the 3.5” and get it modified than to get someone to make it bespoke. Miltek is ok…… but has it’s limitations, don’t forget it’s only a 2.75” exhaust, if your going bigger than a hybrid k04 setup then you’ll want a 3” exhaust system as a minimum. If you don’t mind waiting 6–8 weeks for the exhaust to be made and delivered then deffo go with the 3” Zinram cat back, it’s currently £450 delivered!!

With regards to running with a catalytic convertor….. that’s on you really. I don’t run one, come MOT time then that’s something you’ll need to consider, it won’t pass without one unless you have a “friendly” MOTer. Sports cats are a way around this but bare in mind they are restrictive, so that’ll increase back pressure which will impede the power you’ll get out of your car.


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Thank you so much @S3AMJ
I'll go with 3" for the pipes definitely with stainless steel and I'll prepare straight pipe and cat before and after mot...
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as @hydro s3 mentioned I'll do v clamps and I can easily prepare for the mot.

@S3AMJ I'm trying to find info about LSD that you're going with? Is it the Quaife or Wavetrac?

What is the general opinion about those two differencials?
Cheers,
Djordje
 
Shall do! The speed the rest of the build is progressing at, should be about 2034.

Need to stick the back end in the air over the next couple of weeks to sort a few bits, so I'll try and get a test fit done then. I've a few tweaks I'd like to make to the bells for additional cooling/weight saving (not that the rears will remotely need the former of course) but if they bolt into place ok based on my crude number crunching, that's just semantics.

Equally, the CB auto brackets could be run with a 6mm spacer, but I prefer the idea of just doing it "right" first time.

I’m with you on that do it once do it right! I would invest moneys towards making this happen bud if you needed to make up numbers on a batch of adaptors and bells.

I have toyed with the idea of running CP9445 4 pot calipers on the rears, they are small enough to fit those 309x20 discs and have almost double the pad dimensions, would mean you’d get more heat into the brakes. The pistons are fairly small so shouldn’t effect the pedal travel much although I’ve not done the calculations because….. well it makes my brain hurt!


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Thank you so much @S3AMJ
I'll go with 3" for the pipes definitely with stainless steel and I'll prepare straight pipe and cat before and after mot...
View attachment 248401
as @hydro s3 mentioned I'll do v clamps and I can easily prepare for the mot.

@S3AMJ I'm trying to find info about LSD that you're going with? Is it the Quaife or Wavetrac?

What is the general opinion about those two differencials?
Cheers,
Djordje

Believe it or not…..: I’m not running any LSD’s in either my gearbox or rear diff. Personally I don’t think an S3 needs it. They don’t generally struggle for grip with good wide tyres on them, I know someone running both gearbox and rear diff and it makes them nervous sometimes!

Sooooo, save the money and put it elsewhere on the build they are not cheap bud.


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Believe it or not…..: I’m not running any LSD’s in either my gearbox or rear diff. Personally I don’t think an Oh needs it. They don’t generally struggle for grip with good wide tyres on them, I know someone running both gearbox and rear diff and it makes them nervous sometimes!

Sooooo, save the money and put it elsewhere on the build they are not cheap bud.


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for my beetle :D FWD, I'll need it lsd :D there is no way to keep 460bhp without one of these...Btw I'm in contact with people from monster performance and I'll go with full set dog box 1-6 you make me think about the whole situation and different kinds of weak points on the 02m transmission then I decided to do it properly... This car will not be sold and I have to spend how much is needed for a reliable and proper build :D
 
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for my beetle :D FWD, I'll need it lsd :D there is no way to keep 460bhp without one of these...Btw I'm in contact with people from monster performance and I'll go with full set dog box 1-6 you make me think about the whole situation and different kinds of weak points on the 02m transmission then I decided to do it properly... This car will not be sold and I have to spend how much is needed for a reliable and proper build :D

Yeah forgot your building a beetle….. an LSD will only help in your case. 1-6 monster set! Nice, this going to be a all out track car or a daily?


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My PTB-Racing twin plate organic/sintered clutch kit arrived today, pictures curtesy of Alex from B5. It looks like a machining master piece. Very excited to see how the pedal feels, what it’ll take and longevity. The owner of PTB-Racing (Kai) is a real pleasure to deal with, very prompt on emails and helpful. Also speaks good English which always helps, my German is not good!

Depending on how it all goes it could be potentially the new go to clutch setup for big turbo builds. I’ll of course update everyone on progress weather good or bad.

All we need now is my gearbox back from Martin after being repaired and the car is back on track to finally see what it is capable of.


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Saw-blade design... that's new to me...

Yeah I’ve not come across this design before either, I’m sure there is a good reason for it, possibly to aid with used compound to evacuate better and also to help airflow and keeping things cooler


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Yeah forgot your building a beetle….. an LSD will only help in your case. 1-6 monster set! Nice, this going to be a all out track car or a daily?


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Hey, @S3AMJ this should be daily, but definitely, I'll do a track day soon as I finish. Like an enthusiast for now :D but, you never know.

Btw clutch that you bought looks amazing, I can't wait to hear the first impression. When I saw it I wanted to buy the same one for me, but for my build g25550 dual-mass flywheel Luk with sintered Sachs is fine.

Cheers!
 
@S3AMJ do you think you will have any problem with intake(hydro locking of the pistons) there is a big filter but is it enough to keep all the water mist? Maybe is a silly question but I'm just wondering because I manage to create a successfully modified clone of my cold intake...
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@S3AMJ do you think you will have any problem with intake(hydro locking of the pistons) there is a big filter but is it enough to keep all the water mist? Maybe is a silly question but I'm just wondering because I manage to create a successfully modified clone of my cold intake...View attachment 248626

Looks pretty good….. but no, you won’t need to worry about hydro locking from water mist. I’ve got 6 water meth nozzles firing loads of water meth into my car without an issue.


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Car looks mega mate! Was good seeing you on Saturday also!
 
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Car looks mega mate! Was good seeing you on Saturday also!

Good to finally meet you as well mate! You sure that A4 TQS is just gonna be a restoration we haven’t twisted that arm of yours enough yet?


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Looks pretty good….. but no, you won’t need to worry about hydro locking from water mist. I’ve got 6 water meth nozzles firing loads of water meth into my car without an issue.


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:D haha,that's true :) Thank you man this is the first iteration. I'm covering it with fiberglass just to get the stiffness
btw,I spoke with Bill from badger5 about catch can...They are too busy now and they have a lot of priorities(cars) that's fine.I totally understand it and plus he mentioned that is hard to make it catch can just like that...Every catch can is made for the specific build as he said.In that case I'll do it my self ,but just wondering thir pipe into your catch can is attached to the block breather?
1642442668897


Thank you
 
:D haha,that's true :) Thank you man this is the first iteration. I'm covering it with fiberglass just to get the stiffness
btw,I spoke with Bill from badger5 about catch can...They are too busy now and they have a lot of priorities(cars) that's fine.I totally understand it and plus he mentioned that is hard to make it catch can just like that...Every catch can is made for the specific build as he said.In that case I'll do it my self ,but just wondering thir pipe into your catch can is attached to the block breather?
View attachment 248640

Thank you

Yeah Badger5 are mega busy. Bills right, anything that’s custom made is made specifically to the car. Your beetle will differ to mine and someone’s A3 will differ to that and so on. The amazing thing with companies like Badger5 is you have an idea, you pitch it to them and then they make something even better!

My build doesn’t retain any of the original breather pipe system. So like mentioned further up on my build thread, I went a little over the top with AN20 breather pipe coming from my block (crankcase) plenty of others run 19mm pipework which is sufficient. All the breather pipes need to go to the catch can and then either vented to atmosphere or return into the turbo intake pipe.


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Yeah Badger5 are mega busy. Bills right, anything that’s custom made is made specifically to the car. Your beetle will differ to mine and someone’s A3 will differ to that and so on. The amazing thing with companies like Badger5 is you have an idea, you pitch it to them and then they make something even better!

My build doesn’t retain any of the original breather pipe system. So like mentioned further up on my build thread, I went a little over the top with AN20 breather pipe coming from my block (crankcase) plenty of others run 19mm pipework which is sufficient. All the breather pipes need to go to the catch can and then either vented to atmosphere or return into the turbo intake pipe.


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I would be more than happy to bring the car to their shop and enjoy :D but is not possible...Especially because of this situation with covid...I agree, definitely.Every setup needs different changes.I just looking for information to avoid wasting time.I really appreciate all the comments you gave to me.Most of the people here on the forum save me a lot of time and money.

I just founded on the badger5 site...That's what I'm looking for.
1642455904534


I will also do the same,remove everything and keep the simple as possible but efficiend.Your setup looks very interesting and I'm going that way...I also order some valve cover...I hope end of this year beetle will be ready :)
Thank you once again
1642456092525
 
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I would be more than happy to bring the car to their shop and enjoy :D but is not possible...Especially because of this situation with covid...I agree, definitely.Every setup needs different changes.I just looking for information to avoid wasting time.I really appreciate all the comments you gave to me.Most of the people here on the forum save me a lot of time and money.

I just founded on the badger5 site...That's what I'm looking for.
View attachment 248649

I will also do the same,remove everything and keep the simple as possible but efficiend.Your setup looks very interesting and I'm going that way...I also order some valve cover...I hope end of this year beetle will be ready :)
Thank you once again
View attachment 248650

That breather adaptor is basically what I’ve used, minus the brass 19mm barbed fitting. I’ve got Badger5 to weld an AN20 fitting on to it.

Had to be said, that’s the best rocker cover in my opinion. I’ve been through a few to know now ha!

Create your own build thread and keep us all updated on your build, granted it’s a beetle but still many would read its progress.


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That breather adaptor is basically what I’ve used, minus the brass 19mm barbed fitting. I’ve got Badger5 to weld an AN20 fitting on to it.

Had to be said, that’s the best rocker cover in my opinion. I’ve been through a few to know now ha!

Create your own build thread and keep us all updated on your build, granted it’s a beetle but still many would read its progress.


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Oh, great!I just thought to weld it as well :) I'll keep brass for something else...
Yes I know that you had a long journey with the rocker cover, that's the reason why I take this one because is the last one, actually the best of all of them as you said.
I'll keep you updated on the thread I already created, related to checking the part list that I created... "a-couple-of-things-about-1-8t-engine-building"

Cheers
 
Well! It’s been quite a journey but finally it’s that time folks! Some who follow Badger5 on social media will have already seen, but the car performed exactly as expected. We also now know the limitations of the G30-770 turbo. Water/meth alone gained us 30bhp allowing Bill to add some timing. Now officially number 1 on the leaderboard…… for now!
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We achieved 642bhp and 516ft lbs torque! What’s maddening is when Bill overlaid my previous AET K04-380 hybrid build, the G30-770 spools identically the same! The onset is unreal on a turbo this size, considering the fact it’s basically a GT3071 sized turbo and 5-6 years ago you would be lucky to get north of 450bhp out of it. Despite Garrett claiming the G30-770 can achieve 770bhp the 200bhp increase between 2/3 generations of there turbos prove they are evolving in great succession. The turbo could achieve more with more exotic fuel (E84) but I’m very pleased with the results. The car is going to be quite the animal and it’s going to take me some time to LEARN to drive it.

Here are a couple dyno plots for people to have a gander.
72df79028323cfc75297c7ee0039c2f2.jpg

I’ve got 4 maps which look like this, wastegate pressure which isn’t on the graph is a whopping 429bhp which is crazy to think my hybrid build max power was 391bhp! I’ll more than likely be running the car in map 3 which is 540bhp on track days and have a push to pass button wired into the steering wheel allowing me to quickly switch momentarily into the aggressor map 1 (642bhp) for overtaking and going up long straights.
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I should hopefully be collecting the car in a couple weeks time. Still quite a few things to do to the car, like finishing plumbing in the fire suppression system, half cage, recaro bucket seats and harnesses.

Big shout out to Badger5 and everyone else involved in getting this build to where it is today!


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Properly epic result Ash, you have every right to be stoked with that. The B5 crew have smashed it out of the ballpark yet again!
 
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Properly epic result Ash, you have every right to be stoked with that. The B5 crew have smashed it out of the ballpark yet again!

Thanks Luke, lots of enjoyment to be had with this beastie! it’s an honour to be part of the B5 legacy. Nothing but greatness leaves the halls of Badger5


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Oh forgot to mention in my previous post the gains from the former hybrid build to now.

AET K04-380 - 391 bhp / 343 ft-lbs

G30-770 - 642 bhp / 516 ft-lbs

Gains
251 bhp
173 ft-lbs


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Excellent results mate well pleased for you. The wait is nearly over then down to Mexico for some 0-60 times. Hopefully get to see this beast at AITP this year.
 
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@S3AMJ

Oh man!What a resultsThis is crazy,251bhp more than previous setup.
I can't believe that spoole is almost the same as k04hybrid.

Would you keep this power?or your gain is maximum of the turbo?

Man what I car!btw record some video,would be great to see this beast on the road!

Enjoy!!!!

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Wicked...I trust there will be a live launch feed from Nasa when you first 'take off'!
 
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Excellent results mate well pleased for you. The wait is nearly over then down to Mexico for some 0-60 times. Hopefully get to see this beast at AITP this year.

Thanks man! Yeah hopefully there will be an AITP this year, there was a threat of it not happening. We need more S3 8L’s to attend this year if it goes ahead!


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@S3AMJ

Oh man!What a resultsThis is crazy,251bhp more than previous setup.
I can't believe that spoole is almost the same as k04hybrid.

Would you keep this power?or your gain is maximum of the turbo?

Man what I car!btw record some video,would be great to see this beast on the road!

Enjoy!!!!

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Yeah this is pretty much the limitations of the turbo, we are at max on the turbo speed. There is an Audi TT which belongs to Germain which is running the same turbo on a 2.1 stroker. The dyno graph plots are almost identical. This proves that the limiting factor is the turbo now, which is exactly what I was trying to achieve with this build. Go overkill on everything and see what the turbo can really do.

I’ve just uploaded some videos on YouTube, I’ll post them up on here shortly.


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Some videos of the car in the dyno cell at Badger5. Lots more videos to come this year. Sorry for the poor quality, hopefully you’ll get an idea of what the car sounds like.






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Fantastic results as ever from Bill and Alex. Don't get hung up on the 770bhp that Garret rate the turbo at. You could theoretically get 770bhp out of this if it was on a larger engine that was more efficient than the 1.8T (High compression with direct fuel injection etc etc) and running on E85. Maybe something like a 2.5 TFSI .
If you look at the compressor map you can see that the G30-770 doesn't do that well at high boost compared to some of the BW offerings but it's a great turbo in terms of size and packaging to fit in the limited space available on the S3. In the real world over 600bhp available from 6000rpm onwards is massive. The peak numbers are nice to talk about but it's the area under the curve that really matters.
G30 770 compressor map

If you look at a 750bhp rated turbo from BW something like the 8364 that has an almost vertical line at the right hand side of the map that extends upto around P2C ratio of 3.2 which is around 2 bar of boost and then carries on up a lot higher than the Garret turbos. It will support over 3 bar of boost and still give you over 70Lbs/min of air.
1642937482853

I strongly recommend you look at a CSF radiator though if you intend to take it on track. You have an intercooler which is optimised to reduce pressure drop by having more passageways across the intercooler so results in less flow through the rad. In my experience of track days with a standard rad and only 500bhp with a more free flowing intercooler and no air con rad you will struggle especially in the summer.
Really funny what some tuners are doing on these car with a G30-770 and a similar build to yours.Running 2.4 - 2.5 bar boost so the turbo is well outside it's design speed. It will live there for a while but it's not sustainable, but then a lot of people only see the numbers and don't think about how long it might last.

 
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Maybe a G30-770 could work well on a VR6 lol ;)

<tuffty/>
 
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Fantastic results as ever from Bill and Alex. Don't get hung up on the 770bhp that Garret rate the turbo at. You could theoretically get 770bhp out of this if it was on a larger engine that was more efficient than the 1.8T (High compression with direct fuel injection etc etc) and running on E85. Maybe something like a 2.5 TFSI .
If you look at the compressor map you can see that the G30-770 doesn't do that well at high boost compared to some of the BW offerings but it's a great turbo in terms of size and packaging to fit in the limited space available on the S3. In the real world over 600bhp available from 6000rpm onwards is massive. The peak numbers are nice to talk about but it's the area under the curve that really matters.
View attachment 248920

If you look at a 750bhp rated turbo from BW something like the 8364 that has an almost vertical line at the right hand side of the map that extends upto around P2C ratio of 3.2 which is around 2 bar of boost and then carries on up a lot higher than the Garret turbos. It will support over 3 bar of boost and still give you over 70Lbs/min of air.
View attachment 248921
I strongly recommend you look at a CSF radiator though if you intend to take it on track. You have an intercooler which is optimised to reduce pressure drop by having more passageways across the intercooler so results in less flow through the rad. In my experience of track days with a standard rad and only 500bhp with a more free flowing intercooler and no air con rad you will struggle especially in the summer.
Really funny what some tuners are doing on these car with a G30-770 and a similar build to yours.Running 2.4 - 2.5 bar boost so the turbo is well outside it's design speed. It will live there for a while but it's not sustainable, but then a lot of people only see the numbers and don't think about how long it might last.



Sorry bud let me rephrase….. we now know the limitations of a G30-770 on a 1.8t 20v platform with pump fuel and water/meth!

Granted the turbo will probably achieve a little more on a larger displacement engine and so on and so on.

I’ll see how I get on with the standard rad on track for now mate, it’s not something I’m massively concerned about based on what I’ve seen others running CSF rads on a day to day basis. I can change out the thermostat for a lower one beforehand. Don’t forget I still have AC as well so that would more than likely be running to help take some heat out with the fans on.

I’ve got plans in the pipeline later in the year to see what other limitations are

A lot of these cars you see on YouTube are just showing you willywaving figures as you know, what they don’t show you is the turbo sh1ting itself a couple weeks later.


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Maybe a G30-770 could work well on a VR6 lol ;)

Well mate, you know what I might end up doing later in the year sooooooo….. there could be one up for grabs. It would be instant power from idle for sure haha


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Well mate, you know what I might end up doing later in the year sooooooo….. there could be one up for grabs. It would be instant power from idle for sure haha


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@ Don't say that. @<tuffty/> @S3AMJ please stay focus on 2.0T,don't think about vr6 hahahahah

one year later....vr6 800hp!

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@ Don't say that. @ @S3AMJ please stay focus on 2.0T,don't think about vr6 hahahahah

one year later....vr6 800hp!

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I’ll be sticking with the 2.0 stroker dude. Just might test out a different turbo, I want to find out what the flow limitations are of the 2.0 stroker. Biggest power potential without to much lose onset.

I do have my other A3 which is a 3.2 Quattro DSG, long term that’ll end up having a serious build on it.


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I’ll see how I get on with the standard rad on track for now mate, it’s not something I’m massively concerned about based on what I’ve seen others running CSF rads on a day to day basis. I can change out the thermostat for a lower one beforehand. Don’t forget I still have AC as well so that would more than likely be running to help take some heat out with the fans on.

A lot of these cars you see on YouTube are just showing you willywaving figures as you know, what they don’t show you is the turbo sh1ting itself a couple weeks later.
Having the AC running on track will make no difference to the cooling of the engine with the fans running. Fans are there to cool the engine when the car is stationary or in slow moving traffic. Fans provide a similar amount of airflow to a car doing about 20-25mph after that having the fans on makes little or no difference to the cooling of the car, Especially when you are on a track running around at 80-130 mph .The power losses running the AC will also load the engine more, You will be revving the engine to around 7500+ rpm at that speed the AC would be taking a good few bhp, nominally an AC pump takes about 10bhp to run. Add the extra load on the alternator to run the fans as well.
There are indeed plenty of cars with willy waving figures on you tube , It would be good if there were more information on them other than blurred/ edited videos. And I agree with you that if you were to try and run that level of power overspeeding the turbo that much it's likely to end badly somewhere down the line.
 
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Having the AC running on track will make no difference to the cooling of the engine with the fans running. Fans are there to cool the engine when the car is stationary or in slow moving traffic. Fans provide a similar amount of airflow to a car doing about 20-25mph after that having the fans on makes little or no difference to the cooling of the car, Especially when you are on a track running around at 80-130 mph .The power losses running the AC will also load the engine more, You will be revving the engine to around 7500+ rpm at that speed the AC would be taking a good few bhp, nominally an AC pump takes about 10bhp to run. Add the extra load on the alternator to run the fans as well.
There are indeed plenty of cars with willy waving figures on you tube , It would be good if there were more information on them other than blurred/ edited videos. And I agree with you that if you were to try and run that level of power overspeeding the turbo that much it's likely to end badly somewhere down the line.

I’ll see how I get on, bare in mind I’m pretty Amateur when it comes to track days, the likelihood of me ragging my S3 to death on track this year is going to be fairly minimal. This year it will purely be about learning the basics and learning the car. The typical draggy 0-60, 100-200, 1/4 miles and so on. This car will never be a full blown all out track car as that’s not what I really want from it. Clubsport I guess you could say a road car that goes on track occasionally.


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Well everyone the car is finally home. First impressions…… wow! Just wow! Handles lovely, nice whine coming from the gearbox in the monster set gears, turbo whistling away, just a dream.

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Over the next few weeks I’ll rack up some miles to get all the learn values so we can make some adaptions to the VE table to make things smoother and efficient.

Now I’ve got the car back I’m in two minds about taking out the seat and putting in my recaro pole positions. I’ll keep them for the time being though until I make a decision.

The CAE shifter is mega positive, going to need to get some miles on it and the gearbox to get it all settled and changing a little more smoother.

I’ll also invest in a Draggy and get some base numbers together and see how things improve over time.


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