Brake Shudder

[S3VDO]

I went through two sets of Pagid Discs that both warped within months of each other and so I swapped them for Brembo ones. I've been getting brake shudder at motorway speeds and so I booked it into the garage. They've had all the wheels off, tested the run out, tested it on the road up to 50 mph and they say they can't see a problem. Obviously, they aren't warped but there's definitely an issue. Anybody any ideas?

 

[nluk100]

What pads are you running? Have you done any high speed stops since you fitted the new discs? Did you buy genuine Brembo discs as there are lots of fakes around.

 

[S3VDO]

Yep, they're definitely real ones. The Pagid ones before were **** - never again. Pads wise, I got them from the Audi dealer, OEM ones and fitted them new with the first set of discs. Could that be the issue? What would you recommend?

 

[Retroman]

I've never had a problem with Pagid brake discs/pads. Suspect you have a calliper problem. If they are sticking slightly the problem typically comes to a head at motorway speeds when heat/expansion builds up. I suspect this is your root cause.

 

[S3VDO]

Maybe it could be a calliper issue then? Not sure where to take it now, after the best garage I know close to me can't find a problem. Maybe the Pagid discs I had weren't genuine? I got them from Euro and both sets warped within a couple of months. I don't drive heavy either - unless it's related to a calliper issue? Current ones are fine though.

 

[nluk100]

^ as above, is one of your front discs hot after a run? (hotter than the other side?) Please do not touch the disc to find out btw! Just put your hand near it to feel any heat coming off it. Overheated discs tend to go a kind of pinkish red on the vented edge.

Has your suspension been checked out - nothing loose or worn? Buckled wheel? Lots of things can cause what feels like brake shudder.

 

[S3VDO]

Mmmm all good points to check. The suspension is fine I do know. Wheels are recently refurbed and fine as far as I know. I haven't seen any signs of overheating. Obviously, I could miss any of those things though. I could do with an expert checking it really.

 

[Retroman]

The chances of 2 or 3 sets of discs all warping in a relatively short time is very unlikely. If it were my car I would:-
1) replace the flexible brake hoses on the axle concerned. With age they can break down internally ( and cause symptoms similar to sticking calliper) and 2) Get a caliper axle repair kit and replace the internal piston seals and dust covers. I don't know the age of your car but I've done this sort of total brake refurb on my 1998 BMW Z3 and the difference was night and day

 

[S3VDO]

That's all complicated stuff! I'll have to get an expert to check all of that. It's a 2011 with a fairly low mileage of 38000. Sounds promising though.

 

[ch1z64]

That's all complicated stuff! I'll have to get an expert to check all of that. It's a 2011 with a fairly low mileage of 38000. Sounds promising though.

If you take your time you will be able to remove Caliper and just take the internals out off caliper not really that diffcult and i am sure you can find a video on you tube or a post on here

 

[45bvtc]

Maybe it could be a calliper issue then? Not sure where to take it now, after the best garage I know close to me can't find a problem. Maybe the Pagid discs I had weren't genuine? I got them from Euro and both sets warped within a couple of months. I don't drive heavy either - unless it's related to a calliper issue? Current ones are fine though.

Last time I had this issue on an 8P RS3 I found that while the outside face of the brake disc looked OK, running EBC Redstuff, when I checked the inside face of the brake disc looked awful, like so (same disc):

You'll not need me to tell you which is the inside or outside. Oh, and I'd just done 50 miles on 'em...

And both RH and LH front discs were the same; the inside faces just were not 'working' and that's where I was getting pick-up contamination and brake vibration...

My problem was/is not braking hard enough (in the RS3) - and as you've said "I don't drive heavy either" and that, I fear, is the problem.

Note: I don't have a 'similar' problem on my A1 or TT, both have 'smaller' brakes so I use 'em harder...

Back to the RS3; so I cleaned 'em up, re-fitted 'em, and gave 'em some excess work - all sorted.

Found a few other RS3s with the same/similar problem - big brakes just NOT being worked fully on UK congested roads...

Just run a finger on the inside face(s) of the brake disc(s), in a cold state of course, and check for a difference in surface texture.

Just a thought and £s cheap to resolve - hope this helps...

 

[paddy]

This is a problem i have been chasing for ages, my original discs started to judder at high speed, even at walking pace you could feel them go on/off/on if you lightly touched the pedal. I got the garage to change the discs but the mechanic said the originals were fine and he was right because the new discs did exactly the same and still do 20k miles later. what i have found is distance is a factor, they are worse the further you go but its not heat, i have emergency stopped them from 70mph a dozen times in a row and they are fine but drive normally for 30 miles and they will start to judder .
I am convinced there is slack somewhere in a bush or mounting that shows up as the joint warms up and grease is thinned but i dont think its disc warp.
another factor could be i get a high speed steering wobble that comes in at 82mph and has gone by 85mph but this again get worse with distance and i have had the wheels balanced and a new set of tyres and it made no odds. This wobble is again random and might be so bad i cant drive through it but back off to under 80mph and try again and it might not do it all.

 

[oldoiler]

Last time I had this issue on an 8P RS3 I found that while the outside face of the brake disc looked OK, running EBC Redstuff, when I checked the inside face of the brake disc looked awful, like so (same disc):

View attachment 151914

You'll not need me to tell you which is the inside or outside. Oh, and I'd just done 50 miles on 'em...

And both RH and LH front discs were the same; the inside faces just were not 'working' and that's where I was getting pick-up contamination and brake vibration...

My problem was/is not braking hard enough (in the RS3) - and as you've said "I don't drive heavy either" and that, I fear, is the problem.

Note: I don't have a 'similar' problem on my A1 or TT, both have 'smaller' brakes so I use 'em harder...

Back to the RS3; so I cleaned 'em up, re-fitted 'em, and gave 'em some excess work - all sorted.

Found a few other RS3s with the same/similar problem - big brakes just NOT being worked fully on UK congested roads...

Just run a finger on the inside face(s) of the brake disc(s), in a cold state of course, and check for a difference in surface texture.

Just a thought and £s cheap to resolve - hope this helps...

Soo true, today’s brakes need to be worked hard otherwise they glaze. Re your other comment regarding disc distortion had a similar problem and was told that this can happen after going through heavy rain/ puddle with hot discs- been driving for 5xxx years never had that quoted to me ?!?


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[prt57]

I echo your comments about Paris discs.
My son fitted a set to the front of his TTS and he had judder when braking from high speeds. ECP replaced them under warranty and he had another set. A month later the new set started to judder. This time a refund and he swopped to EBC grooved with red stuff pads.
I made him remove every bit of rust or contamination from the hubs as juddder can be caused if the discs don’t sit square on the hubs.
No more judder but the red stuff pads wore out really quickly. They were replaced with Brembo oem equivalent pads and still no judder.
I just fitted Brembo discs and pads to my Mk 4 GTI and once again no judder but I was meticulous with the hubs before fitting the discs.

 

[S3VDO]

Just to update anyone that's interested, I got this sorted. I'd replaced the front discs after having two sets of front Pagid discs warp on me within a matter of months and still had a judder at higher speeds i.e. motor way driving. After having all four wheels checked again the front Brembo discs were perfect but it transpired that the rear two Pagid discs were warped a little as well. It made sense that the rear discs were kicking in at higher speed breaking and causing the judder. I replaced the rear discs with Brembo's to match the front and, hey presto, it's been great ever since. My advice is, for what it's worth, avoid buying Pagid discs from Euro car parts. Three sets of new Pagid's (2x front and 1x rear all warped in no time - even with careful breaking in). After talking to several Audi specialist garages that I trust, they've all since told me they never touch Pagid any more - read into that what you will. Anyway, that's my experience.

 

[leshkin]

Just to update anyone that's interested, I got this sorted. I'd replaced the front discs after having two sets of front Pagid discs warp on me within a matter of months and still had a judder at higher speeds i.e. motor way driving. After having all four wheels checked again the front Brembo discs were perfect but it transpired that the rear two Pagid discs were warped a little as well. It made sense that the rear discs were kicking in at higher speed breaking and causing the judder. I replaced the rear discs with Brembo's to match the front and, hey presto, it's been great ever since. My advice is, for what it's worth, avoid buying Pagid discs from Euro car parts. Three sets of new Pagid's (2x front and 1x rear all warped in no time - even with careful breaking in). After talking to several Audi specialist garages that I trust, they've all since told me they never touch Pagid any more - read into that what you will. Anyway, that's my experience.

If the judder comes back, check the wheel, disk and hub mounting surfaces to ensure that they are clean and level, without any contamination. Any unevenness, like paint after a wheel refurb will cause disk to wear unevenly and 'warp'.