Ideas NHN/tech/expert/someone had the same pleeeease? TDi 170 cured/not/cured/not!
- Thread starter Cossie_boy
- Start date
i refer back to post 12!
timing................................. just a touch out.
has it had a timing belt fitted recently or due a replacement?
No chaz its due next year, thing is i cant see it being that as so intermittent?
but an update, just as i thought it was safe to go back in the water...i mean car, it done it again in 3rd high revs
Now this could be something and nothing, as I thought the over 3k hesitation had gone and i was just dealing with the inital pull away hiccup under 2k in first and second, i went to a German specialist who was recommended to me by my old boss in the trade, nice guy and I got him to just drive it down the road with their computer plugged in, but i didnt say what the syptoms were, sure enough he spotted the initial 1/2 second gear low revs hesitation, but more interestingly that it still holds back as you initate the turbo, the computer i had on my lap showed it was requesting boost but it was not delivering for a split second or so, he said the car must be mapped, which was correct, as its asking for more fuel than needed, ok i didnt fully understand all the numbers but got what me meant
then we got back and were sitting in the car, there was a 0.00 figure showing, when suddenly on its own the revs when from the normal 900 to a 1000 and this 0.00 went to something like 3.28 for example which he said was strange as he hadnt touched anything
It showed on this system there had been 2 sucessful ECU remaps, which was correct.
He then quite thoroughly went all over under the bonnet moving pipes and checking things over, noticed there was some black sooty marks on the back of bulkhead i believe near exhaust manifold which could have indicated a leak
Now he done all this FOC as was favour and i wish i had taken it there first now, grrrr, as last specialist did not know what more to check or change but its obviously still got the fault
He is sending the readings and details off i believe to somone, could actually be at Jabbasport to check something so shall near Monday or Tuesday anymore
On the way home, i had to go and put fuel in and after this in 3rd it hesitated like a biatch! so made me think when he was moving pipes around did he disturb the thing causing this intermitten fault, got home, then went on a small journey, on the way there felt okish, and on way back 100% perfect and like a dream, this is weird!
One thing I read on a thread i now cant find, im sure someone said if they tick over a 1000 rpm, they drop to 900 rpm when dpf regenirates or vice versa and they can become lumpy? mine seems to tick over at 900 rpm but then did go upto 1000 rpm whilst in traffic and not moving.
blimey, war and peace dot com!
but an update, just as i thought it was safe to go back in the water...i mean car, it done it again in 3rd high revs
Now this could be something and nothing, as I thought the over 3k hesitation had gone and i was just dealing with the inital pull away hiccup under 2k in first and second, i went to a German specialist who was recommended to me by my old boss in the trade, nice guy and I got him to just drive it down the road with their computer plugged in, but i didnt say what the syptoms were, sure enough he spotted the initial 1/2 second gear low revs hesitation, but more interestingly that it still holds back as you initate the turbo, the computer i had on my lap showed it was requesting boost but it was not delivering for a split second or so, he said the car must be mapped, which was correct, as its asking for more fuel than needed, ok i didnt fully understand all the numbers but got what me meant
then we got back and were sitting in the car, there was a 0.00 figure showing, when suddenly on its own the revs when from the normal 900 to a 1000 and this 0.00 went to something like 3.28 for example which he said was strange as he hadnt touched anything
It showed on this system there had been 2 sucessful ECU remaps, which was correct.
He then quite thoroughly went all over under the bonnet moving pipes and checking things over, noticed there was some black sooty marks on the back of bulkhead i believe near exhaust manifold which could have indicated a leak
Now he done all this FOC as was favour and i wish i had taken it there first now, grrrr, as last specialist did not know what more to check or change but its obviously still got the fault
He is sending the readings and details off i believe to somone, could actually be at Jabbasport to check something so shall near Monday or Tuesday anymore
On the way home, i had to go and put fuel in and after this in 3rd it hesitated like a biatch! so made me think when he was moving pipes around did he disturb the thing causing this intermitten fault, got home, then went on a small journey, on the way there felt okish, and on way back 100% perfect and like a dream, this is weird!
One thing I read on a thread i now cant find, im sure someone said if they tick over a 1000 rpm, they drop to 900 rpm when dpf regenirates or vice versa and they can become lumpy? mine seems to tick over at 900 rpm but then did go upto 1000 rpm whilst in traffic and not moving.
blimey, war and peace dot com!
Yes, it's a bit of a saga this one. Hope this is cured now. I would run the car for a couple of weeks just to make sure all is ok. At least you have found one of the original mappers, Jabba. They will have no hesitation in putting the OE map back on for you if you wanted to.
Your telling me Soot, lol, but unfortunately its not 
Still hesitating, just waiting on what these guys come up with, then to plead my case to cargaint...again!
Mrlaupo, i didnt get a print out but they done some thing where their machine, like a plastic etch-a-sketch but costing 30k did some scan for about 10 minutes which I believe is what is being sent off
At the end of the day its had this fault since I got it, they had their one chance to put it right but did as much as they could, referred to audi specialist, who have bascically also done as as much as they can, so these guys I saw Saturday, for my own sanity, have to be the third and final chance, so I am very much counting on their moto of...we fix problems other people cannot!
If it cannot be fixed, it has to go back :/
Still hesitating, just waiting on what these guys come up with, then to plead my case to cargaint...again!
Mrlaupo, i didnt get a print out but they done some thing where their machine, like a plastic etch-a-sketch but costing 30k did some scan for about 10 minutes which I believe is what is being sent off
At the end of the day its had this fault since I got it, they had their one chance to put it right but did as much as they could, referred to audi specialist, who have bascically also done as as much as they can, so these guys I saw Saturday, for my own sanity, have to be the third and final chance, so I am very much counting on their moto of...we fix problems other people cannot!
If it cannot be fixed, it has to go back :/
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Just did a google image search, I didnt notice the words VCDS at the top on the one he had but was more watching the numbers
There were 3 lines, something like
Fuel requested - 12.3145
Fuel given - 11.4584
Then another number at the bottom which went to 0.00 when we stopped
He said it was asking for more fuel than needed which indicated a map, and there should not be more than 1200 difference, so its like almost over fueling, i guess like carbs in the old days which would choke up then clear and go
If this makes any sense to anyone!
Funnily enough my Westfield is suffering from this, it has twin Dellorto's.
As for yer A3 problem I can't think of anything else to help you other than what has been said before, at least you found someone that is on the ball and can help you.
Cool, I had a Lotus Sunbeam with twin DCOEs n that's what I was referring to funny enough, lol
Lets hope do mate!
Lets hope do mate!
Something you wished you had now http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Talbot_Sunbeam_Lotus_-_Race_Retro_2008_01.jpg
Riiiiiiiiight then...
The car is now with a german specialist place, they have tested everything, done there checks and apart from what I said before about it seems to be asking for me fuel than needed, due to map? it all looks ok in their opinion but they can obviously feel the hesitation, he mentioned blanking off a vacum pipe that goes into the rocker cover and said id need to drive and feel if any better as i am best know
Currently waiting to find out if they can get standard map to go back to scratch...I wondered if the car just does this with any map?
BUT THEN...i get an email from the previous owner today stating the car was actually fine when it was new and this fault developed later, so its good that it elimiates searching for factory faulty parts, THEN as reading through the history again tonight I found in 2009 when a year old and with 12k it had the wrong fuel put in and driven with, hadnt really taken much notice before but im thinking about the lift pump in the tank maybe or seals? this is clutching at straws I know, and this wrong fuel also happened about 2 years later although was not started up that time. There is something about fuel seals I believe being replaced, any thoughts?
This really is last chance saloon as despite all the new bits if it isnt sorted it has to go back
The car is now with a german specialist place, they have tested everything, done there checks and apart from what I said before about it seems to be asking for me fuel than needed, due to map? it all looks ok in their opinion but they can obviously feel the hesitation, he mentioned blanking off a vacum pipe that goes into the rocker cover and said id need to drive and feel if any better as i am best know
Currently waiting to find out if they can get standard map to go back to scratch...I wondered if the car just does this with any map?
BUT THEN...i get an email from the previous owner today stating the car was actually fine when it was new and this fault developed later, so its good that it elimiates searching for factory faulty parts, THEN as reading through the history again tonight I found in 2009 when a year old and with 12k it had the wrong fuel put in and driven with, hadnt really taken much notice before but im thinking about the lift pump in the tank maybe or seals? this is clutching at straws I know, and this wrong fuel also happened about 2 years later although was not started up that time. There is something about fuel seals I believe being replaced, any thoughts?
This really is last chance saloon as despite all the new bits if it isnt sorted it has to go back
Just take the car to audi to have the ecu flashed again, you cant guarantee any flash that goes on by indy's will be untouched, only an actual audi dealer can guarantee its stock flash, cant really state this anymore times & atm mate seems you're ******* in the wind a little.
I'm not saying the audi flash will fix the car, but at least you can start from scratch & discount another thing.
I'm not saying the audi flash will fix the car, but at least you can start from scratch & discount another thing.
Thanks and yes I can only agree, problem is my hands are tied as cg paying for all these and deciding what is done where
How much do you think that would cost?
How much do you think that would cost?
So I could just call Audi and ask for them to update the ecu or reset it? or do would they understand flash?
Just so I understand this fully, is there a way of testing or telling if the ECU itself has a fault?
I am struggling to follow, if the ecu was somehow faulty, someone maps it with an upgrade file, doesnt fix the fault? audi then reflash back to standard, does this fix the initial fault of the ecu, or could it be that the file either standard or upgraded has the fault on?
The computer thing they had showed two sucessful remaps, i was wondering could the first one have been when they did the update after the injectors were done? or not!
so many questions in my head, such confusion, cant sleep for it!
I am struggling to follow, if the ecu was somehow faulty, someone maps it with an upgrade file, doesnt fix the fault? audi then reflash back to standard, does this fix the initial fault of the ecu, or could it be that the file either standard or upgraded has the fault on?
The computer thing they had showed two sucessful remaps, i was wondering could the first one have been when they did the update after the injectors were done? or not!
so many questions in my head, such confusion, cant sleep for it!
Ok I think that's my only option then, would they be able to keep the mapped file n let me have it just in case it makes no difference?
When I called they said should be under an hour
It would be mad if that just cured it n all this was down to the maps!
When I called they said should be under an hour
It would be mad if that just cured it n all this was down to the maps!
Technician doesnt get an actual file mate, its all done live over the german link, they dont have a file to give out, so no they wont.
That's interesting as the place who did the renal made it sound like they removed what was on the car n sent it off, was told it was not standard, so put their own on there, then said to me they had my original file n were spose to email it to me, which I have not received
Just be frustrating if they flash it then is no better
Just be frustrating if they flash it then is no better
Thats a remapper mate & you need to understand the differences between a remapper & vag, they dont operate anywhere near the same, this is why a clean file on ecu guaranteed is only possible from audi.
Well you have no choice, the good thing is, you can have a stock clean map, then leave stock & work from there onwards, as I said it may not fix the problem, buts its a good base to start from.
Well you have no choice, the good thing is, you can have a stock clean map, then leave stock & work from there onwards, as I said it may not fix the problem, buts its a good base to start from.
Thanks again mate, im learning
But, just called to book into Audi...
They won't do it as too much risk of...blowing up?! The ecu which they would then be responsible for, great
But, just called to book into Audi...
They won't do it as too much risk of...blowing up?! The ecu which they would then be responsible for, great
Thanks again mate, im learning
But, just called to book into Audi...
They won't do it as too much risk of...blowing up?! The ecu which they would then be responsible for, great
Utter rubbish! When the injector work was done on your car they should have flashed/loaded the ECU with a brand new map that had been specifically designed to work with the new injectors. This 'Map' will have been designed & applied by AUDI/VAG & would be slightly modified from the one it left the factory with & would have overwritten anything loaded previously.
They could tell your car had been remapped as the ECU shows a 'flash count' which displays how many time a new map has been loaded into the ECU, on top of this a simple scan will display the name given to the map (which would have been set by the re-mapper) & blatantly wouldn't match the name given to the Audi/VAG map.
Absolute utter ****** that dealer I tell yer, what complete idiots, feck it give me your info & there number & I will ring them for you if need be, jokers!!!!
Cheers Max, would the map they did at time of injectors have shown up at the current place its at as a...sucessful remap...on their vcds or what ever system they had?
NHN, thanks for the offer, I have a feeling they just don't want to get involved as feel its a
problem car :/
By the way, can they see a date remaps have been done?
problem car :/
By the way, can they see a date remaps have been done?
Yep, on the ECU info it will show how many times a map has been applied to the ECU, what date, & the name given to that particular map. If the map hadn't applied properly I'm sure the car wouldn't run, having said that I was told the new map had been applied to mine & it had blatantly hadnt loaded.
ok thanks mate, so would the injector ecu update show as a remap?
I now have to let cg have it back to try n fix, although l don't think they can, then if not they are gonna send to London Audi, im not sure f to point the finger to the ecu or just let them do their thing as I'm not paying :/
I now have to let cg have it back to try n fix, although l don't think they can, then if not they are gonna send to London Audi, im not sure f to point the finger to the ecu or just let them do their thing as I'm not paying :/
Got the car back today from the place that couldnt find anything wrong...
He had tried to do something with a vacum pipe that I believe is to the left of the actuator to see if made any difference, believe it connects to tandem through inside of rocker?
Its worse, badly, and not sure if imagining it but when popped bonnet to look it felt very very hot, temp on 90 as normal but id only driven 10 minutes
When I start car it sits at 900 rpm, as soon as I drive off and come to stop it goes upto just over 1000 rpm which I could noticibly hear, it used to randomly tick over either at 900 or 1000 and had a feeling this was connected to when it ran ok and when it didnt
Make any sense or ring any bells?
I tell ya im getting pretty sick of this fooker especially when you take it to someone and it comes away worse 
He had tried to do something with a vacum pipe that I believe is to the left of the actuator to see if made any difference, believe it connects to tandem through inside of rocker?
Its worse, badly, and not sure if imagining it but when popped bonnet to look it felt very very hot, temp on 90 as normal but id only driven 10 minutes
When I start car it sits at 900 rpm, as soon as I drive off and come to stop it goes upto just over 1000 rpm which I could noticibly hear, it used to randomly tick over either at 900 or 1000 and had a feeling this was connected to when it ran ok and when it didnt
Make any sense or ring any bells?
I tell ya im getting pretty sick of this fooker
especially when you take it to someone and it comes away worse Got the car back today from the place that couldnt find anything wrong...
He had tried to do something with a vacum pipe that I believe is to the left of the actuator to see if made any difference, believe it connects to tandem through inside of rocker?
Its worse, badly, and not sure if imagining it but when popped bonnet to look it felt very very hot, temp on 90 as normal but id only driven 10 minutes
When I start car it sits at 900 rpm, as soon as I drive off and come to stop it goes upto just over 1000 rpm which I could noticibly hear, it used to randomly tick over either at 900 or 1000 and had a feeling this was connected to when it ran ok and when it didnt
Make any sense or ring any bells?
I tell ya im getting pretty sick of this fooker
ok if the car has a remap on it (bad map)
and at high rpm and or in the building boost range with 100% throttle ther is a max boost limiter of 27psi on this ecu most pd170 are tuned to 26psi this is neer the limit as your car builds boost so qwick with the gtb1749 turbo it will overboost hit the 27 psi boost limiter
then the ecu cuts boost then request boost then overboost then cuts boost then requests boost then overboost etc etc etc ...
some times in 6th gear it can do it a lot of times mayb 5 or more in 3rd or 4th gear it will stuter around 3 times untill the ecu sorts itself out
the above is just on a badly mapped pd170
if you are geting low end stuter without much throtle this could be your duel mass flywheel or the ASV closing 5% and asking for egr gasses to encorage to the exhaust gases to flow in
the low end stuter is a common problem with the pd170 ther was a place that said to get an egr blanking plate that had a small hole in it and this cured ther problems
i think you hav a bad remap on the car and its causing what i said at the top
Thanks mate! thats actually made me a feel a lot better reading that
The place that done the map the other week, claimed it had already been mapped badly previously, which I can understand what you are saying as it was pull - hold back - pull - hold back etc..
It seems to do this more intermitnetly now, but i can feel it do it pretty much from take off but much more mild, like i can feel it but i bet a lot of people couldnt
What is the ASV?
The place that done the map the other week, claimed it had already been mapped badly previously, which I can understand what you are saying as it was pull - hold back - pull - hold back etc..
It seems to do this more intermitnetly now, but i can feel it do it pretty much from take off but much more mild, like i can feel it but i bet a lot of people couldnt
What is the ASV?
ASV anti shuder valve its the big flap in the intake below the egr
at certain point in low rpm range this will close a little to restrict airflow and the egr will open and the swirl flaps will close and this help the engine to burn the exhaust gases that it is asking for
you can pull the plug from the ASV and this will keep it in its 100% open position but you will notice on shutdown the engine shudders
also if you look to the left of the intake manifold ther is a vacume pipe goin to a small actuator type thing you can disonect this vacume pipe and plug it this will keep the swril flaps 100% open
then you can go on a test drive just to see if anything has changed if not reconect it all and that has proved it is nothing to do in that area causing your problem
at certain point in low rpm range this will close a little to restrict airflow and the egr will open and the swirl flaps will close and this help the engine to burn the exhaust gases that it is asking for
you can pull the plug from the ASV and this will keep it in its 100% open position but you will notice on shutdown the engine shudders
also if you look to the left of the intake manifold ther is a vacume pipe goin to a small actuator type thing you can disonect this vacume pipe and plug it this will keep the swril flaps 100% open
then you can go on a test drive just to see if anything has changed if not reconect it all and that has proved it is nothing to do in that area causing your problem
no should not it dose not on my car if it does it should go out when all is reconected
were about are you from i hav vagcom
bit far away from me
you have to think how much is the issue annoying if it was annoying you as much as mine is you would pull the plugs without thinking about it hahaa
Yeah saw the video mate, looks mental!
Its going back to place I got it Friday and if they cant sort it they are spose to send it to audi, so prob best to leave it as is and let them do it, although me being me ill probably have to do what you said first!
Its going back to place I got it Friday and if they cant sort it they are spose to send it to audi, so prob best to leave it as is and let them do it, although me being me ill probably have to do what you said first!
Cannot sleep...again!
Am just going over in my mind and this thing with the idle speed, it usually sits at 900 rpm and today it is going upto 1000 rpm and running possibly worse than it ever has
I cannot find the damn thread but seem to recall somone saying when the DPF regenerates their revs went up and their car ran a bit lumpy?
So with it being so very hot tonight after a short journey i am thinking could mine be constantly regenerating and this is causing this bad running and explains why so hot?
This is going to be the 6th time its been to a garage to find this fault and am just thinking can I bare the sinking feeling of it going back and yet again driving the same either straight away or a few days later, then you read all these main dealer horror stories, if it got sent to audi and they couldnt feel the symptoms I think id go insane!
Any comments appreciated
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Am just going over in my mind and this thing with the idle speed, it usually sits at 900 rpm and today it is going upto 1000 rpm and running possibly worse than it ever has
I cannot find the damn thread but seem to recall somone saying when the DPF regenerates their revs went up and their car ran a bit lumpy?
So with it being so very hot tonight after a short journey i am thinking could mine be constantly regenerating and this is causing this bad running and explains why so hot?
This is going to be the 6th time its been to a garage to find this fault and am just thinking can I bare the sinking feeling of it going back and yet again driving the same either straight away or a few days later, then you read all these main dealer horror stories, if it got sent to audi and they couldnt feel the symptoms I think id go insane!
Any comments appreciated
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Got the car back today from the place that couldnt find anything wrong...
He had tried to do something with a vacum pipe that I believe is to the left of the actuator to see if made any difference, believe it connects to tandem through inside of rocker?
Its worse, badly, and not sure if imagining it but when popped bonnet to look it felt very very hot, temp on 90 as normal but id only driven 10 minutes
When I start car it sits at 900 rpm, as soon as I drive off and come to stop it goes upto just over 1000 rpm which I could noticibly hear, it used to randomly tick over either at 900 or 1000 and had a feeling this was connected to when it ran ok and when it didnt
Make any sense or ring any bells?
I tell ya im getting pretty sick of this fooker
The engine should be idling around 800-820rpm (i've even set as low as 720rpm before), if its around 900-1000rpm & it feels lumpy it's probably the engine doing a passive DPF regen, this would also explain why the engine felt even hotter too as more fuel is pumped in after TDC to increase the burn & heat going through the DPF.
