Aftermarket Cams & the never ending hunt for more power

Jenno007 said:
I agree with everything you said. One thing, IE offer cams with stock like idle which give massive power gains. I'm not sure who's would give more (bills or IE) and I don't think we will ever find out unless someone independent tests them. Just worth noting however.
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IE stock idle - LM actual *** off

anything from stock idle on them

ask me how I know - :p
 
badger5 said:
IE stock idle - LM actual *** off

anything from stock idle on them

ask me how I know - :p
Click to expand...



To me that sounds pretty similar to stock (obviously with a loud exhaust), but it's not too lumpy.

Given what you have been saying though, I have no doubt yours are more of a stock idle, but to me that is quite similar to stock.

Yours certainly make power as well!
 
Jenno007 said:
Has anyone heard the IE street/strip cams idle? They sound AWESOME. Not something I would want on my car due to the attention you'd get but if it was a pure track car or if you don't care about the attention they are wicked.



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stock idle claims are nonsense.
so much so they set off the misfire recognition
 
Jenno007 said:


To me that sounds pretty similar to stock (obviously with a loud exhaust), but it's not too lumpy.

Given what you have been saying though, I have no doubt yours are more of a stock idle, but to me that is quite similar to stock.

Yours certainly make power as well!
Click to expand...


I've used them.
stock idle is simply not true.
 
Fair enough you would know better than me :p


Have you secretly wanted to compare your cams?
 
Prawn said:
Whilst part of my loves the charismatic nature of a lairy lumpy idle like my Mini, I can't help but think that if Bills has mananged to engineer some cams that idle like stock and make more power, it's a more complete solution.

That said, I can certainly see the appeal of it sounding like a touring car on idle :racer: :laugh:

Today will be a very interesting day indeed.

What are cams going to bring to the hybrid game I wonder? Will they show that the turbo is on it's **** already and can't give any more? Or is the rule book about to be re-written again and a genuine 400bhp from a hybrid could be on the cards?

Who knows?! I'm ****** excited to find out though!
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remembering the 2bar incident on stroker 20v, >400bhp from hybrid has been done... not by design but n75 mess up, but it churned some serious bhp. I dont intend on touching lupos boost.. not map in any way.. We shall see.
Dialing them is a pia, but my cam pair was not supplied as a "pair" as I had to rob the inlet to swap out for a customer who "dropped" his intake cam breaking it in two! DOH!
 
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so is this something you are working on today Bill?
i dont understand half of what you guys are on about but im very excited lol
 
Bill, do you think cams will help a hybrid much? Given where the hybrids usually run out of puff, and where cams bring the engine to life (usually higher rpm)
 
Jenno007 said:
Bill, do you think cams will help a hybrid much? Given where the hybrids usually run out of puff, and where cams bring the engine to life (usually higher rpm)
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a question so good you had to ask twice
:whistle2:
 
well, testing yesterday on ickle lupo.

result was cams dont bring anything to a k04 hybrid.. it still 370bhp max type setup.. which is still impressive for a k04.. its still a k040-023 turbo remember, but there was nothing else for it to give up.
The cams are a bigger turbo suited item in conclusion. hybrids need not apply

Disapointing, but unless you try these things you dont know. Now we do.

the k04 hybrid is all outta puff where the cams would yield some extra performance, IF the setup had anything left to give. It does'nt.
 
For once I was right.

Hybrid owners should focus on the positives, at least you'll be saving some money :p
 
Any graph overlays showing boost response differences or power band shifting
 
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Bill. That's a matter of peak power. But what about over the entirety of the curve?

My thoughts on it were it would create more power upon positive inlet pressure perhaps spool a little bit slower and still max out as it was before upon reaching the limits of the turbo.
 
Samuealle said:
Bill. That's a matter of peak power. But what about over the entirety of the curve?

My thoughts on it were it would create more power upon positive inlet pressure perhaps spool a little bit slower and still max out as it was before upon reaching the limits of the turbo.
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and as i said, no gains.........
i did not say anything about peak power, you chose those words, not quoted mine.
 
bills turned into a grumpy honey badger!

oh well bill thanks for trying!!

you cant win them all :(
 
badger5 said:
and as i said, no gains.........
i did not say anything about peak power, you chose those words, not quoted mine.
Click to expand...

I was just trying to put some input in. I see no need for the animosity.
 
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Sounds like Bill was working all weekend, I'd be worse if I had to do that
 
just buy a bigger turbo paul!!!
i dont see me staying hybrid all that long to be honest.
 
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daz-20vt said:
bills turned into a grumpy honey badger!

oh well bill thanks for trying!!

you cant win them all :(
Click to expand...

I'm disappointed.. yes.. Tired yes..
grumpy at times, especially when people quote something I have'nt said, Yes
:p

Where the cams on a bigger turbo bring power to the party, its at the higher rpms, releasing bottled up flow, increasing the efficiency of the motor.. However on these little hybrids, the hotside remains the flow limiter, so if there was anything left in the unit, at the revs there would be gains, its already max'd out.
We have to remember this is still a k04... and not so long back lest we forget these things rarely made it into the low 300bhp region let alone nigh on 370bhp. I would have to conclude the k04-02x units have a max at the 370bhp region... Adding boost did not aid anything when I tried.. so we have reached the flow limit of the setup, and the restriction is as expected the hotside. No surprise of course, we knew it was at a limit, but the cams extra potential could not be realised through the flow limiting hotside of a k04.

Onward and upward.
No more k04 developments planned. They are what they are.
 
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ahh well
if the turbo is out of puff then no hardware will change that.
what about on a k04 064 turbo bill?
or ypu still of the same opinion?
 
cam wise no idea.. doubt much better.. Its a slightly higher flowing setup so might help, but if its at its max before.. same scenario may occur.
someone else can do that test.. I am not a fan of trying to fit an 064 into an 8L... Nothing reusable, and for the time/effort involved you may as well have fitted a bigger turbo imho
 
Bill thanks for trying, appreciate your hard work in the aid of helping us lads out!

Daz I know mate, I dont see me staying hybrid too long either. Get these seats fitted when they arrive, get some Federal RSR or Nankang NS2R and do a few track days first, then save over winter again for bigger and better things:racer:
 
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so this is prob an obvious question.
seeing that the turbo ran out of steam.
if you had a bigger frame turbo running 370 bhp these cams would then be viable upgrade as the turbo would pull through.
even though the power levels are the same
 
badger5 said:
I am not a fan of trying to fit an 064 into an 8L... Nothing reusable, and for the time/effort involved you may as well have fitted a bigger turbo imho
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Are there bigger turbos that can provide the same progressive curves that @Prawn got from his 064? If so, which one would you advise for a roadcar A3 AGU, aiming to get 350+ hp, taking into account it will have 6-speed conversion with LSD fitted?
 
I think it safe to say, that whilst the 064 is a great conversion in terms of spool / response / peak power it's very much a DIY orientated route, rather than a tuner route.

From talking to Tuffty the 064 conversion has many fiddly little things that when done at a tuners make the cost similar to that of a BT install, so it doesn't make much financial sense if you're not doing the work yourself.

Doing it DIY I still think it's a good conversion, providing you're able and knowledgeable, and I love the way mine drives.

If I were dropping my car off with a tuner for a turbo upgrade though, I'd go down the big turbo route definitely.
 
064 for someone doing it themselves, not having to pay someone else to make it fit/work is an option.. BUT no k04-02x parts are reusable, much work is required. If paying someone for this, those hours could be spent on building a bigger turbo setup with much more potential.

S3 064 install is'nt plonk in... I can assure you.

It has nice spool or an OE turbo, and for someone wanting mid 300's and possibly high 300's it does tick the box. It will produce more than an k04-02x unit by nature of its slightly larger hotside etc..

FWD install significantly easier than a quattro haldex car tho
 
Erikn89nl said:
Are there bigger turbos that can provide the same progressive curves that @Prawn got from his 064? If so, which one would you advise for a roadcar A3 AGU, aiming to get 350+ hp, taking into account it will have 6-speed conversion with LSD fitted?
Click to expand...
you have seen prawns 064 power curves?
 
badger5 said:
well, testing yesterday on ickle lupo.

result was cams dont bring anything to a k04 hybrid.. it still 370bhp max type setup.. which is still impressive for a k04.. its still a k040-023 turbo remember, but there was nothing else for it to give up.
The cams are a bigger turbo suited item in conclusion. hybrids need not apply

Disapointing, but unless you try these things you dont know. Now we do.

the k04 hybrid is all outta puff where the cams would yield some extra performance, IF the setup had anything left to give. It does'nt.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing
EGT stays the same?
 
Erikn89nl said:
No, I have heard him say they are very progressive.

But my question seems to have derailed the thread, sorry.
Click to expand...

Top graph was Sam Bryants Chinese GT2871r in T25 guise.

Middle graph is Prawns TFSI 064 on AGU.

Bottom graph is Tufftys project at the time was GT3071r in T3 guise from memory.

180A82B9-7E8E-49F6-AFFA-00A107AB4087_zpsmhhw1abf.jpg


: Sorry for the poor photo quality it was edited on my iphone :
 
Last edited:
Mine never went on Bills dyno in it's mapped state. only with the 064 running on the old 023 hybrid map where it made 347. Would be interesting to see what it does now, and how the curves look, but it'll still be peaking fairly early like a small turbo. Would love something that held power out to the top end, but that's a pipe dream away at the moment!
 
Oh ***, I just typed a long reply to this, then decided to pm it to Prawn, and now it's disappeared...
@Prawn, you've got incoming pm...
 
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