Water leak and car won't start

[mercules]

Guys, just seeing if anyone has any advice before I get it towed to the garage.

2013 S4

Basically over the last week where we had bad rain somehow both drivers and passengers floor was soaking wet. Water was dripping from the bottom of glove box and bonnet pull.

After doing some research it's common to come from the drain holes on the pan roof. I have not dropped the roof liner but water is definitely coming down the A pillar as I got my hand underneath and some of the small spongers were wet. I've got a solution just waiting on parts going to sleeve the drain pipes with slightly smaller reinforced flexible pipe. Dont really fancy the ache of dropping the headliner at the moment.

Now not coincidentally the car goes to turn over but doesn't start just chugging. I checked the battery anyway on multimeter and it's on its way out so I've replaced it with new AGM Varta Silver to same spec and car stil won't start (not surprised).

I've checked all fuses in situ with multimedia and I've scanned the car with ODBEleven showing no faults. There's no signs on the dashboard and air con mmi Bluetooth ect all work.

Car is now fully dry with cover over the roof.

Does anyone have any ideas on what else I can check before I spend some £ on a garage.

Appreciate responses in advance

Ben

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[***DK***]

Just a thought but have you also checked the rear boot left and right cubby holes for water. If the drain holes at the rear of the pan roof are blocked too then water tends to run down into those areas.l where there are alot of electrical bits. But I'd expect some faults if something was fried in there.

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[mercules]

Just a thought but have you also checked the rear boot left and right cubby holes for water. If the drain holes at the rear of the pan roof are blocked too then water tends to run down into those areas.l where there are alot of electrical bits. But I'd expect some faults if something was fried in there.

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Yea I did check the fuses in the boot it's all dry in there no sign of damp even and fuses are all working too. Literally is scratching head moment. Cheers

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[mercules]

Here's a video if it works //cloud.tapatalk.com/s/6119729a43657/VID_20210815_205345.mp4

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[***DK***]

Sure someone on here will have the answer. I'm stumped, looks like the immobilizer is cutting in or something.

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[mercules]

Thanks DK

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[spartacus68]

I take it you've checked the plenum chamber drainage holes behind the bulkhead? There's a fusebox on the driver's side. Leaves, pine needles and moss will block it unless you pull out the rubber grommets. I could only access the passenger side one, but that should be enough.

The panoramic roof is well documented. So either the drainage channels are blocked (run strimmer wire down them) and clean the channels with a little detergent and hot water. The fronts exit near the lower door hinges, the rears behind the plastic wheel arch liners.

If they are clear, them either the connecting tubes to the sunroof tray is leaking, or indeed the cassette itself. This isn't a job for a late afternoon or evening, you need plenty daylight, the right tools and patience.

Disconnect the battery and wait 30 mins. If you have trim tools, dig them out. If your roof liner is cream, then take your time, it's easy to mark, so wear nitrile gloves. The hardest part is the interior grab handles. In addition, getting the rubber door seal back on on the trim and roof liner.

More details here: https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/water-leak-passenger-side-a4-avant.315385/

And this: https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/very-wet-driver-footwell-any-common-suspects.363852/

You really need to get the car scanned with VCDS to see why the immobiliser is kicking in, assuming that's what's causing it. Have you tried changing the batteries in the remote key just is case?

 

[mercules]

Thanks Spartacus I've seen your thread the other day. It's draining out the bottom of the door ok I used a water bottle to test but I have not put anything down them yet but will do soon as some parts arrive.

The battery in the key I have not tried so will give that a go in the morning. Imagine if it was that (facepalm)


Cheers


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[mercules]

Update tried the spare key and whoooooo it's alive.

I've got some batts coming from Amazon but weird the key has enough juice to unlock lock etc the car but not start it.

Thanks DK and Spartacus now on to fixing the leaks. Fingers crossed it's not the cassette.....


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[***DK***]

Nice work! You'd really think a nice little message on the screen could tell you that needs changing.

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[mercules]

Nice work! You'd really think a nice little message on the screen could tell you that needs changing.

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Mate I wished, thing is I've seen a low key warning ages ago before I changed the battery. This time I've had no such message.

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[spartacus68]

Great news - at least you've got the car running. Now just to trace that leak. My car sprung a leak again last night after heavy rain, so the direction the car sits definitely helps. Considering reversing it in to the drive which is on a slight incline so water runs back via the drains. At this rate I'll be buying shares in Sikaflex marine sealant!

 

[mercules]

Sorry to hear yours has come back it's a joke that they didn't use a single pipe all the way through or create a channel that couldn't end up with water coming into the cabin it's not hard to plastic channel it towards the outside.

You got a cracked cassette?



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[spartacus68]

You got a cracked cassette?

Not sure it's cracked - the cassette uses plastic and metal sandwiched together with a mastic and is fundamentally flawed. They usually last until the day after the manufacturer's three year warranty expires. If you replace it outwith the warranty period at the main dealer, apart from the horrendous cost which I suspect will run into region of £2-3k once you take the part and labour into account, is the Webasto part hasn't been revised as far as I'm aware. I think the car would be dryer if I left the panoramic roof open and a bucket placed in both seats!

I fixed it after the winter after previously fibre-glassing the underside of the cassette (that was a mistake). I ripped the whole lot out and used Sikaflex 291 marine sealant above and below, greased the runners with VW's own grease (£45 a tube), yep - you read that right, and Captain Tolley for any hairline openings. Was dry as a bone for 4-5 months - but it's been a decent summer. Now the weather is changing I noticed a leak again. I also used the sealant on the where the drains attach, so I know that isn't the fault.

Short of driving around without a roof lining - as this is about the only way to pinpoint future leaks. I also had plastic sheeting under the passenger floor mat to avoid water seeping into the sound deadening insulation as you just store problems for the Autumn and windows that take forever to clear.

I'm considering a Volvo XC60 if I step away from Audi.

 

[mercules]

I can only imagine you are super ****** as if I did all that work to it and leak came back I would be!

I think lesson I've learnt is don't buy a car with pan roof if you are keeping it over 5yrs old. Seems common across VAG and pan roofs. It's just a ball ache to deal with.

If the drain pipe fix doesn't work for me I'll either drop the liner and keep hose on it to see where it's coming from as you may do also or I'll take the mods off and just chop the car into a dealer and take the L. I don't want to get rid of it as I've spent so much on mods and maintenance but I also don't want to keep spending time troubleshooting.

I like that Volvo the ride comfort being higher up really makes you appreciate those types of cars. The Yaris GR looks like a great midlife crisis car for a year or two...


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[quattrogone]

It's appalling that manufacturers are still producing cars with major flaws like this! Wasn't there once a thing called "fit for purpose" surely a roof is supposed to keep water out and not direct it in lol! Maybe they should recommend that customers only spec pano roofs if they live in countries with near zero rainfall....

 

[spartacus68]

If the drain pipe fix doesn't work for me I'll either drop the liner and keep hose on it to see where it's coming from as you may do also or I'll take the mods off and just chop the car into a dealer and take the L.

If you're feeling adventurous, then save this for a decent day after checking the forecast, get up early and have the tools ready to hit the ground running.

Trim tools are very useful, especially on the sun visor clips. Under them will be torx screws. Detaching the wiring is straight-forward for the vanity lights. Also the A pillar airbag trim, lift the airbag badge for a hidden torx screw on both sides. The panoramic sunroof control and lights are held in place with clips into the roof lining and one torx screw. Open the the little sunglasses pocket and you'll find a hidden torx there too.

The interior grab handles are a ball-ache. If you go hammering into them, then I can guarantee you'll break them and the soft-close function will be a distant memory on reassembly as they slap shut like a Vauxhall Astra from the 80s! Get yourself this RS Components tool.

Tool to remove grab handles

Hi all, just for info really, removing the grab handles official requires a special tool called "special hook #3370", which is the following (A VAS 6543): The problem is that Audi won't supply you with it (I asked Lincoln Audi, they told me it was for workshops only and they cannot sell it...

www.audi-sport.net

The metal clips with the plastic fasteners that the interior grab handles connect with are the devil's spawn! I can guarantee one will ping off or indeed drop into the metal behind the roof lining, so start with the grab handles on reassembly or you'll need to tear the whole lot out to retrieve it again.

Needle nose pliers are useful, a damp cloth for any marks on the roof lining, silicon spray if you're struggling with the rubber weather strip and getting it to re-enage on the metal seam. It's more daunting than difficult, but satisfying if you can fix it.

On the panoramic roof - in order to get the roof lining to drop sufficiently, pull or leverage on the roof lining trim and you'll hear the clips disengage.

I had an issue last year where I thought the sunroof motor was goosed, but it was just moisture. In the end I needed VCDS to re-learn the motor so it would open and shut. In addition - there is a gear cog on Ebay you can buy if it breaks - which can happen on roofs where there's been no maintenance or the roof runners haven't been lubricated.

Anyway - best of luck and post pictures!

 

[mercules]

Thanks Spartacus, really useful information so I'm not shooting blind.

Im off work from Friday for a week so planning on doing the tube fix first. I have some braided tube and push fit connetors and eyeing up some rubber washer/grommits for sizing to see if they would fit in the hole. I've temporarily covered the front half of the pan roof in case it rains where I suspect the leak is coming from.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5mm-to-2...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0



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[mercules]

It's appalling that manufacturers are still producing cars with major flaws like this! Wasn't there once a thing called "fit for purpose" surely a roof is supposed to keep water out and not direct it in lol! Maybe they should recommend that customers only spec pano roofs if they live in countries with near zero rainfall....

I agree, I actually thought yea it's an issue but it doesn't look like it happens to everyone so risk is low getting a pan roof and it leaking

First car with pan roof and it's really put me off. Its really nice when's suns out to peel it back but not worthy of coming to your car in the morning when you got to go somewhere to find soaking wet interior floor.

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