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Warranty Claim Rejected

jm-darcy May 19, 2020

  1. jm-darcy

    jm-darcy Registered User

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    Evening all,

    My 2014 S3 PFL, unmodified car threw an engine management light, which has pointed to a failure in the swirl flaps within the inlet manifold.

    I took it into Audi in Bristol who confirmed the diagnosis made by my local specialist. The remedy is to replace the entire inlet manifold. Having taken out a named component extended warranty last year, I assumed I was in a good position. Turns out that is not the case.

    The claim has been rejected as the inlet manifold is not listed within the named components.

    Within the booklet under the section of what is included it writes:

    "Engine: All internal components; timing belt and tensioner; turbocharger; supercharger; all solid-state sensors and control units (including immobiliser ECU) of the engine management system including supply relays; ignition switch; petrol or diesel injection lift pumps; fuel injectors and fuel pipes; starter motor; starter motor relay; alternator; water pump; thermostat; and engine mountings."


    On the face of it, inlet manifold is not listed, but admittedly, I feel incredibly miffed that an integral part of the engine assembly is not included. It is not like it is an ancillary - I guess I see it as integral to the 'engine' as the cylinder head or the sump - neither of which are listed. Both are also bolted to the block.

    I wondered on your thoughts and perhaps experience? I bought the warranty in good faith to protect against such failures - believing that it would cover the bigger ticket items (engine, gearbox, steering, water pump), but not to fix such things as electric accessories or any comfort-related equipment. Absolutely devastated that they are not seemingly willing to accept. Audi want £778 to replace the inlet manifold.
     
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  3. Jcbmally

    Jcbmally Started with nothing & still have most of it left.

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    And that's where their argument will go back to, "not listed in the policy wording mate". Have you tried an indi garage for a price ? Some ASN members have negotiated with Audi for a fairer price on warranty items but it looks like you will still have to pay. Try contacting Audi HQ explaining your issue about the warranty and you never know, you may get lucky. Hope you get something sorted mate.
     
  4. Fatbloke

    Fatbloke Registered User

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    Audi are not interested. They are one of the worst customer services I have dealt with. They are on a par with vauxhall and that's saying something.
     
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  5. Neil C

    Neil C Registered User

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    I agree about Audis lack of interest. The repeated problems owners are having with the unprotected air con condenser design fault is a prime example of it.
     
  6. Damo S

    Damo S Registered User

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    I too would agree and argue that it is an integral part of the engine, such as the exhaust manifold, cylinder head, intake manifold. no mention of the gearbox either, or drive train? Looks like a bit of a pants warranty to me.

    You could try another line of attack. Without mentioning you have any kind of fault contact Audi HQ and ask them to clarify exactly what the warranty should cover in respect to the "engine" because it seems very vague. Mention the wording you have and ask them what that should include. If they agree to the supposedly missed "bolt on" parts would be covered then get it in writing. If they wont do that then I hate to say it mate but you will just have to get it fixed off your own back. As mentioned above, try an independent garage instead as they would be much cheaper (not 120 quid an hour labour).

    These extended / approved warranties are not really worth the paper they are printed on, and Audi will do more or less anything to avoid paying out. They don't care in the slightest. scum.
     
    Jcbmally likes this.
  7. S32B

    S32B Registered User

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    Gutted for you mate I can imagine how annoyed you are, I've recently seen how much they charge you to think you have peace of mind and that you're covered, then this happens :gun2: Try your indy for a quote, when I was in mine last year a guy was getting his turbo fixed, Audi had wanted over £1,000 to do it, the indy fixed it for under £200!!!

    Take a look here: https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/inlet-manifold-swirl-flaps.259968/

    For advice call Martin here https://www.unit20.com/tuning

    If it's any help:

    Managing Director of Audi UK is Andrew Doyle
    andrew.doyle@audi.co.uk
    Tel - 01908 601303

    Copy your email to - executive.office@audi.co.uk

    My car is due to go back in September, I've tried to order a replacement but can't until places open up again in June, which makes it tight on if I get the car in time. So with that in mind I'm looking at options! One was to buy my car and extended the warranty. I got the quote:

    All component cover, Less than 10,000 miles per year
    £0 excess £862.44
    £100 excess £725.16
    £250 excess £565.88

    Named component cover, Less than 10,000 miles per year
    £0 excess £619.95
    £100 excess £510.70
    £250 excess = £401.45

    As you say I did think 'is it worth the paper it's written on?' Sadly the OP has answered this question, he may as well have saved the warranty cost and used that to pay towards the "£778 to replace the inlet manifold". After reading his post that option has gone out of the window. If I keep the car I'll just take my chances and use my local indy.

    You're right there mate, like I say I'm looking at options. A mate of mine has an SQ2, he sent me the details of a pre reg one 3 days back with the tech pack and 10 mile on the clock. The cheapest coast2coast quote via a pcp was £34,000, I looked on AutoTrader and used 19 plates with a few thousand miles are going from £28k upwards, this pre reg one was up for £27,500! I had no intention to get another Audi, but at that price even if I sold it after 2 years it wouldn't cost much.

    I contacted them via their live chat and then someone called me on the phone and took my details, couldn't have been more helpful. Got a nice email a few hours later asking how they could help etc. so I told them about the SQ2 for £27,500 that was it never heard back from them again! The next day I went onto their website and the add had been removed, I tried phoning the number they called me on and no answer, I sent the guy who emailed me another email asking about it and I've had nothing back! The only thing I can think of is that it wa a pricing error, as they had other SQ2's selling for more money that were older and with miles on. But if that was the case, why not just have the common courtesy to let me know or at least blag it and say it's been sold
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
    Damo S and Jcbmally like this.
  8. Ormesome

    Ormesome Registered User

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    You can not calculate it like that as the extended warranty prices are not calculated properly unless you are in the final month of your existing warranty. The price you have been quoted is probably 50% higher than it will be if you get a quote in the final month. I started a thread ages ago about this and showed what I found. Basically, if you are out of warranty or not within the final month of your existing warranty then the website gives you a quote of almost double. Not sure why, but it’s a fact that it does. Link to thread is below (which you @S32B commented on!)

    https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/audi-extended-warranty-wtf.307569/

    Also, gonna be a bit of a d*** here but this is a classic story of reading the T&Cs. All component cover costs probably max £100 more with no excess compared to limited cover, forget exactly but around that. We all know that warranty companies try to get out of every claim and Audi is no different. It’s not in the book, it won’t be covered, simple as. Sorry OP, feel your pain, best bet is Audi contribution so push for something via the emails and numbers others have given you or look for an indie close to home.
     
  9. S32B

    S32B Registered User

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    lol I see what you are saying, but no way I was remembering a post from over 2 years back :D To get my quote I used a reg of a car from Auto Trader with the same spec as mine, if I do keep it I'll try them the last month :)
     
    Ormesome likes this.
  10. rafletcher

    rafletcher Registered User

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    Out of interest what is the actual fault? I had a C6 3.0 TDI, and that was well known for inlet flap issues. Audi solution was to replace the inlet manifold at £600 each. Actual problem was a worn linkage so that on start up the motion was checked and found to be “out of range” hence EML. Eventually someone came up with a kit change the linkage only, which got rid of the slop and stopped the error. I think it was about £10 a side!
     
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  11. The_Ironist

    The_Ironist Registered User

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    Definitely makes a difference. If you used one from autotrader it may have been out of warranty and they charge way more once it’s out.

    My S3 has just come inside the last month and I’m being quoted £446 for all component under 10k with no excess. Or £372 with £100 excess.

    Crazy that it’s almost as much as the insurance to replace the whole car...how does that work?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
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  13. Sparks43

    Sparks43 3rd Gear

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    Statistically, you're more likely to make a warranty claim for something that's broken than write the whole car off - Also that cost would be less than having to have anything repaired by Audi I would have thought
     
  14. HertS3

    HertS3 Registered User

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    Correct! I feel bad for OP, warranty does work sometimes (coming from me with my ongoing Ombudsman complaint against an Audi dealer about refusing to replace my rear differential is something lol), I have had two payouts already under warranty so I would say it's worth having, it's a gamble at the end of the day. You either put that money (and much more probably) aside in case you have issues, or you pay a known amount and get it covered (I got all components).
    It's an insurance policy, and as such you have to read the terms and conditions carefully.
    @The_Ironist when I got the car I was paying nearly £70 a month for the warranty as there had been a break from the manufacturer's warranty, luckily (or not) the claim I had that year paid more than that so it more than paid for itself. Once that year of warranty had run, the price halved luckily, similar to what you are being quoted.
     
    Ormesome likes this.
  15. Damo S

    Damo S Registered User

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    Jeez is that still going on? Unbelievable!
     
  16. HertS3

    HertS3 Registered User

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    Yep, the Ombudsman take months to look at things
     
  17. S32B

    S32B Registered User

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    That's interesting, around £400 for the year would do me and it gives me the option back if I can't get sorted before this car goes back. If you pay monthly for the warranty can you cancel it or do you have to pay the full 12 months? I use an indy using genuine parts, wonder if they would try and throw that against me if a claim was made?!?!

    Mate sent me a link yesterday to a cooper s works for just under £17k on a 19 plate...something like that would probably do me if I can't get the ST in time https://www.sytner.co.uk/car-search...hatchback-2-0-cooper-s-sport-ii-3dr-nav-pack/ plus it's £4k cheaper than the ST!
     
  18. HertS3

    HertS3 Registered User

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    I believe that you can stop paying the monthly instalments as long as you haven't claimed, if you have a claim they'll make you pay the full premium if you cancel early (hence I carried on paying the old owner back until her policy expired as we knew we'd have to pay the full amount anyway so might as well get the cover for the rest of the 12 months!)
     
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  19. wab172uk

    wab172uk Now in an X3 M40i

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    Have you always had the car serviced there? I would argue the it should be covered by the warranty, but if they insist it's not, I'd be asking nicely for Audi to be contributing to the cost as a good will gesture. At least 50%.

    You could say that you have been waiting for the new A3 to come out so you could look at replacing your current car. If Audi want to turn their back on you now, then you will look at another manufacturer for you new car. All smoke and mirrors, but if it helps with any contribution, then you have nothing to lose.
     
    Damo S likes this.
  20. jm-darcy

    jm-darcy Registered User

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    Hey everyone. OP here. Thanks for all the replies and conversation.

    What a week! I must have spent three or so hours on the phone to the dealership and to Audi Warranty. Blood pressure has been through the roof!

    I'll summarise what I have been through as best I can.I have had such mixed messages over the week from Audi and Audi Warranty that I am completely confused myself.

    Audi originally told me that they believed it was a potentiometer fault (which would be covered by warranty). This is located in the inlet manifold and would necessitate the £800 manifold change.

    Audi warranty rejected the claim as they had been told by the dealership technicians that the fault lay in the inlet manifold (not itself covered by warranty), and not with the potentiometer itself.

    After numerous and very heated calls to the two parties, I asked the two 'companies' (!) to talk to each other since although 'the car' was reporting one fault, the technicians had performed other diligent tests and diagnosed something else.

    Again, Audi Warranty rejected the claim as the data they were being sent was pointing to hardware issue with inlet manifold and not sensors.

    I had incredibly long talks with the dealership who seemed to allude to the fact that the diagnosis had in fact flagged that the ECU was faulty (which would have been covered by warranty), however the technicians had done their own tests and believed this was wrong, and that the fault lay in the potentiometer.

    I have to admit, I lost it with both parties - warranty would cover the ECU or the potentiometer, and I was being told that it was being diagnosed as one of those, however the 'computer' was saying no. I have no real idea what was being said between the parties, but whatever it was, it felt that it was absolutely anything that gave the opportunity to reject the warranty claim.

    After further desperate calls with the dealer, unbeknown to me, they offered to replace the manifold for the excess I would have had to have paid on the warranty (£250).

    I am very confused, but ultimately happy. My presumption is that I will be paying the Audi dealer, not the warranty company.

    The cynic in me is worried that they will clear faults, 'code' out the problem and not actually change anything and charge me £250 for the privilege. I had noticed a rougher idle and indeed worse MPG since the EML came on, but perhaps I was imagining it.

    I am wondering whether I am in my right to ask for evidence of the manifold change. After all a manifold is £350 and then 3-hours labour to change. Why would they do this for £250, it doesn't even cover the part?!

    Regarding the warranty - I had let the original manufacturer's warranty lapse for 2 years after the original warranty expired. As the car neared 30k, and having read so many cases of the waterpump housing leaking on here, I decided I would take the plunge. My intent was to mitigate against the major engine, gearbox and steering faults I see posted on here.

    So yes,the premium was quite punchy for this 'first' year, however I am hoping that the price will reduce next year in-line with other peoples' comments. I figured over 3 years, ~£1000 expense in warranty was a reasonable outlay for the peace of mind. After all, a waterpump leak repair seems to be typically that amount.
     
    wab172uk and s3mad_dude like this.
  21. s3mad_dude

    s3mad_dude Noggies ruuuule!

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    I’m glad you’re getting somewhere with this claim, however, I’m so glad I didn’t renew my warranty. For this exact reason I will take my chances and keep the money aside just in case. As with all insurances, it’s a total gamble. Let us know when the work is carried out but £250 is decent for a manifold change that’s for sure.
     
  22. S32B

    S32B Registered User

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    Glad things are getting sorted for you mate :)

    Makes you think are we all just overly paranoid about our cars going wrong and this is where the warranty guys cash in? Most of us on here are probably in cars under 5 years old and the majority will be fine and have no problems at all! Years back we'd just jump into a used car 5+ years old and drive it all over the country and not even think "What if it breaks down". Think I paid £700 for my first car in 1989 and went everywhere with my mates in it, it didn't let me down once in the 12 months I had it.
     
  23. The_Ironist

    The_Ironist Registered User

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    I guess due to the cost of repairs sky rocketing as cars have become more advanced. More to go wrong and more costly to repair when it does.
     
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  24. jm-darcy

    jm-darcy Registered User

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    Do you think I am in my right to ask for evidence that the change has actually happened rather than the car configured to ignore it?

    Perhaps I am just being paranoid.

    My local dealer suggested it as a fix when I took it to them, so I guess it is feasible. I am still not 100% clear what the issue actually is.
     
  25. eribaMotters

    eribaMotters Registered User

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    Would any replaced parts be held for collection by Audi UK for inspection as a claim has been made?

    Colin
     
  26. jm-darcy

    jm-darcy Registered User

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    I get the impression that Audi warranty isn't paying for it. Fixing it for the value of the excess I would have had to pay on the warranty is seemingly a good will gesture by the dealer.
     
  27. S32B

    S32B Registered User

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    Yeah I appreciate that, just makes you think we live in a throw away society that things aren't made to last and it's cheaper to bin and buy new.

    Normally if the dealership do anything they claim it back from Audi! or charge you for parts & labour. I'd speak to an indy and see what they say.
     
  28. Matt Titanium

    Matt Titanium Registered User

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    You could either ask for the tech to take Audicam footage whilst it is all apart, or for the old manifold back so you can have your own independent report as to exactly what has failed. But by "paying the excess" for the job they could come up with an excuse that somebody else needs it for the "claim" and not let you have it so you can't take it further.
    The manifold probably won't cost the dealership £250, so in theory they won't be out of pocket.
     
  29. Damo S

    Damo S Registered User

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    I would have thought a new manifold will be nice and shiny compared with the rest of the engine.
    besides, it will detail what work they have done on the invoice. If they didn't do that work its fraud and I doubt the stealers would want to open themselves up to being done.
     
  30. jm-darcy

    jm-darcy Registered User

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    OP here - By way of an update, I picked up the car today. It took a few days longer than expected as injector seals were sent elsewhere accidentally, but inlet manifold changed and we're up and running.

    Admittedly, I am chuffed to pieces. £250 out of pocket which was the amount of my excess, but Bristol Audi did the rest out of kind.

    £250 is a great deal of money, but I was staring down the barrel of the cost of the extended warranty cover that didn't cover the fault plus the ~£800 bill for the repair itself. To have had it fixed for the price of the excess on the warranty (despite not using it), was as good as I could possibly expect. I was looking at the same price (slightly more) to have it done at my local indy.

    I was also advised that had it been carried out under warranty and it broke again, the warranty would not cover it a second time. Since Audi did it without warranty cover, Audi itself will cover the work with a 2-year warranty - I am a little confused as to why this is, but I have a little additional peace of mind.

    To those on the forum thinking about warranty - Personally I would not be without it given the complexity of these things. I would definitely read the small print to ensure that you are happy with named components over full cover. If the part is not implicitly listed, you can guarantee that it will not be covered. I wrongfully assumed an engine would include the major parts bolted to it - evidently not.

    Hat's off to Bristol Audi with the whole Covid situation too. They had that covered really well.

    Cheers for all the input.
     
    Damo S, S32B, wab172uk and 3 others like this.
  31. Jcbmally

    Jcbmally Started with nothing & still have most of it left.

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    Glad you got it sorted mate. Like you said it could have been a lot worse.
     
    jm-darcy likes this.
  32. wab172uk

    wab172uk Now in an X3 M40i

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    Glad you got it all sorted mate. Even if you are £250 out of pocket. But if that's what you would have had to pay anyway for the excess, then happy days.

    A lot of aggro and stress for you, but at least it all fixed now.
     
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  34. S32B

    S32B Registered User

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    Glad it's sorted mate, a lot off your mind and nice weather for the weekend, have a few beers and relax :)
     
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