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RS3 Saloon vs RS5

infernox Nov 12, 2018

  1. infernox

    infernox Well-Known Member Team Glacier Team Mythos Audi S3 Audi RS3 S tronic

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    I've been looking for an RS3 Saloon for a while now. I was pretty close to getting one but it got sold during negotiations. There's only 1-2 available that has everything I'm looking for now and the dealers are pretty reluctant to reduce the price to bring it to the monthlies I want. There is low supply of RS3 Saloons at the moment and still a fair amount of demand. The dealers pretty much said they'd only discount to the amount I want at the end of the month if the car is still available then. I don't want to spend any more on the car since at the end of the day, it is a depreciating asset and I'd rather not allocate more money to it. I also have my S3 until May so I'm not in a rush to get a new car.

    So I started looking for other cars and funnily enough, I can get an RS5 for pretty much the same deposit and the monthlies I want. There seems to be more supply than demand for the RS5, so much so that Audi offer a £5k deposit contribution on the car, and 4.9% APR. On Carwow, I'm getting a 15% discount (includes deposit contribution). The GFV on the RS5 is also quite a bit higher than the RS3 (which has gotten even lower this month), for example a 3 year PCP gives a GFV of £33k for the RS5, for the RS3 its £24k, 4 year PCP is £28.8k for RS5 and £22k for RS3. One of the main issues is, it's pretty much at the limit of size I'm looking for, I park in a multi-storey car park everyday and its quite tight there. The S3 has no problem and I know the RS3 would be fine too. Do I need the Dynamic Steering option for the RS5 in this case? I know the exhaust is quite weak on it, but I was looking to get a PCW exhaust mod for the RS3 if I got one, and there's a similar mod for the RS5. I'm not sure if the RS5 production has also stopped because of WTLP but I know the carwow dealer I asked said they'd carry on the discount onto their stock cars.
     
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  3. Evil Derboy

    Evil Derboy Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi RS5 Owners Group

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    I got a bigger discount and better APR on a stock car (unregistered). No such thing as GFV. Optional final payment is unique to the particular deal that you’re getting and takes into account apr, deposit and overall discount.

    PCW Has already done an RS5 with the RS Sports exhaust and it sounds much better.

    Dynamic steering won’t solve your parking woes and although I’ve never tried one with it, it’s almost universally loathed in reviews.

    Speak to Josh Rossi at Tamworth Audi.
     
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  4. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team V6 Audi RS4

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    I appreciate RS4 is slightly different but it is a much bigger / wider car than the 3. Every time I get the jitters going in and out of multi storey car parks! For a big unit it does go well though albeit from the factory lacking the sound / drama of the 3 imho. I have the PCW mod which does help it in the right direction and at last (yes you T800) I can confirm it sounds good!

    TX.

    Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk
     
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  5. Auto_QS

    Auto_QS New Member

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    My nerves are on edge when I'm bunging my old A3 into a single car parking spot wouldn't want to worry about an RS5 in a multi-storey car park.
     
  6. jaysrs4

    jaysrs4 Active Member

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    My mate has one - He had the PCW mod done when I did mine. It was far too droney, so he went back and Paul sprayed some PCW semen on it, now its far more spunky.

    On a power note, with my map it gaps his stock 4 pretty easily. Noticed it considerably on the motorway. Problem is you're at silly speeds so not easy to string it out.
     
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  7. dbm

    dbm Active Member

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    The challenge with an RS5 would be opening the doors. I used to have a TTS and getting in / out was a nightmare in any car park unless you could park next to a post or wall that meant you could guarantee enough space on your return...
     
  8. Gnasher

    Gnasher Member

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    At least with the TTS you could hold the lock/unlock button to roll the window down so you only had to sneak past the lower part of the door - in my Mk7 Golf GTI the frame's the worst bit to get around.
     
  9. infernox

    infernox Well-Known Member Team Glacier Team Mythos Audi S3 Audi RS3 S tronic

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    Is there an email for Josh Rossi? Tamworth Audi already sent me a list of their stock RS5 cars because they say you can't order a new RS5 due to WLTP. The main RS5 I was thinking about getting has sold now so that's annoying. The thing with the optional final payment is that they never raise it for you. I've been able to get APR % down to 5.9% on used RS3's but they don't budge on the optional final payment. I also got a higher optional final payment on a used RS5 then a new one (quote from Lincoln Audi).

    That's another thing I was worrying about. Overall I do think the RS3 saloon would be the better choice but the dealer I'm talking to says he'll only reduce the price by a few hundred because the margin is tight. I think it'll only be possible at the end of the month but he said they sell cars all month round so the end of the month doesn't matter.
     
  10. D0C

    D0C Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team Panther TTRS Audi RS3

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    @infernox you are in danger of becoming the next @AudiNutta ;)

    I think you need to just pick a car and take the plunge!
     
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  11. FBF01

    FBF01 Well-Known Member

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    RS5 for me and I own an RS3 fl...RS5 is a beautiful machine!!!!!!
     
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  13. q5man

    q5man Mythos Appreciator Team Mythos TFSI Owners Group Gold Supporter quattro Audi Q5

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    Agree, I think it is one of the best looking in the range
     
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  14. Evil Derboy

    Evil Derboy Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi RS5 Owners Group

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    Josh is the finance manager. His email is the same format as everyone else’s.

    Of course they won’t raise the final optional payment! Otherwise you could select a final optional payment of £60,000 on a £65k car, pay buttons for four years and then hand it back and walk away. PCP is structured so that you’re covering the depreciation cost during the finance period and then at the end the finance house can sell the asset for its current value at the end of the term - either to you or to someone else. Therefor the basis for the final optional payment has to reflect what they estimate the market value to be at the end of the term. You can gain more equity by putting more money in but you can’t put less money in. By taking away the GFV and making it an OFP they reduce the risk of them having to a hit on the car at the end.

    As for stock, I bought my car from Tamworth but it was actually MK Audi’s stock.

    If you can’t order from the factory at the moment the rules of supply and demand dictate that deals won’t be as lucrative. May be better to wait until factory orders are well underway again before seeking a deal even on a dealer-stock car.

    And as for the RS3 dealer telling you it doesn’t matter - we’ll he would say that, wouldn’t he? Wait till the end of the month and you’re gambling that if he hasn’t sold the car he’ll do. deal to hit his end of month target. He’s be the worst negotiator on the planet if he told you to come back at month-end and he’ll flog it to you cheaper. You just be prepared to genuinely walk away from a deal in order to negotiate a good one. Email a rake of dealers and give them your parameters (car, spec, what percentage discount you want on list, how you want to finance it) and wait to see what comes back. You’ll then be able to gauge the market and set some realistic targets to start negotiating with and whittling the dealers done to the one who’ll get you closest the to deal you want.

    I started off on Carwow and then from there started emailing back and forth with a number of dealers till I got the car and deal I wanted.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
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  15. infernox

    infernox Well-Known Member Team Glacier Team Mythos Audi S3 Audi RS3 S tronic

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    Haha I think I've passed him in some cases with how long I've been looking for to buy one. I'm forced to buy used though so I won't be following the car as it moves around the UK.

    Well in true infernox fashion, the RS5 I was interested in has now sold. I'm having a look at one tomorrow at my local Audi dealer to see if I could live with one. Maybe even test drive one and see where to go from there. I don't think I'll wait for a new one of either car though. I'm scared about how WLTP would effect both exhausts.

    I'll try emailing him tomorrow but I already got the list of stock RS5 cars from Tamworth Audi at carwow. There was 5 cars there but none of them fit what I'm looking for.

    Yes I understand how OFP works. I only mentioned it because you said this 'No such thing as GFV. Optional final payment is unique to the particular deal that you’re getting and takes into account apr, deposit and overall discount.', which to me implied it could be improved. From what I've seen, the apr, deposit and discount have no effect on the GFV/OFP. But I was told earlier this month that they reduced the RS3 Saloons OFP by £1,000 for 48 months PCP and £1,300 for 36 months PCP compared to October.

    The issue I have is, with production stopped on the RS3, there are only 1/2 cars left with the spec I'm looking for. I mentioned the end of the month deal because I was talking to him last month and he called me randomly on 30th October at 4pm saying he'll use the end of the month to my favour and do a deal which will blow the rest away, but he needs the full deposit amount before the month is over. I wasn't expecting it to be honest as we stopped communication a week before that, so I was unprepared but I followed it up the next day and it turned out he was busy all day with customers. I actually did what you mentioned earlier today and told him I'd be looking around and his tone instantly shifted. Started trying to convince me this was the only RS3 Saloon with this spec in 150 miles and when I was adamant at looking at other cars, he said 'what can we do to finalise the sale today' and 'it only takes £1000 to reserve the car to make sure someone else doesn't get it'.
     
  16. D0C

    D0C Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team Panther TTRS Audi RS3

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    @infernox I think leaping from the RS3 to RS5 is a big leap. They are extremely different cars. The RS3 (at risk of the ire of the forum) is getting on a bit now, even in FL form. The RS5 is next gen, but will surely not be as agile (I've not driven one).

    If you can afford it then I would say the RS5 is the car to have. Or save yourself a bucket load of cash, order a PFL RS3, decat and remap it and have an awesome car.
     
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  17. infernox

    infernox Well-Known Member Team Glacier Team Mythos Audi S3 Audi RS3 S tronic

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    The RS5 is out of the picture now. I had a look at it today but getting in and out of the back seats is too difficult in my opinion, once you're sitting in them they're fine if you're not over 6 foot (depending on where the front seats are). There will be times when I'll have adult rear passengers so it won't work for me. It does looks good though and the interior is better than the A3. I actually think the RS5 isn't next gen. The MMI interface is the same as the A3 and so is the virtual cockpit and steering wheel. I had a look at the new Q8 and it has the next gen MMI, VC and steering wheel. I'm not a fan of touchscreen only input though so in the future, a FL RS5 could be interesting as long as it doesn't update to the next gen MMI etc. The RS4 could have worked but that's even longer than the RS5 (although the RS3 Saloon and RS5 are both wider than the RS4).

    The PFL RS3 won't work for me either. It's a step backwards tech wise from the FL S3 as I do like the VC and would rather not retro-fit one. Also my car before this was an A3 8P sportback and I have an S3 sportback now so I wanted to get a different shape this time. Looking back I should have waited and got the PFL RS3 instead of my S3, although I'd have a tough job of replacing it.
     
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  18. q5man

    q5man Mythos Appreciator Team Mythos TFSI Owners Group Gold Supporter quattro Audi Q5

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    How about the RS5 Sportback, as has the 4 doors, and surely more rear legroom than RS3 in any form?

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. q5man

    q5man Mythos Appreciator Team Mythos TFSI Owners Group Gold Supporter quattro Audi Q5

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    Ignore me, not even available
    Yet in UK, and WLTP probably put paid to that for now.
     
  20. infernox

    infernox Well-Known Member Team Glacier Team Mythos Audi S3 Audi RS3 S tronic

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    Haha yeah plus I'm pretty sure that'll be even bigger than the RS4 which is too big for me due to me parking in Multi-storey car parks daily.
     
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  21. Evil Derboy

    Evil Derboy Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi RS5 Owners Group

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    I've got two child seats in the back of mine so they are rarely used for anything else than kidnapping random children.

    On the odd occasion that I have adults in the back it is a faff for them to get in and out but if that's important to you then you don't buy a coupe. Have to say I also agree that the RS5 isn't next gen in comparison to the RS3. Would say the two of them are very much on a par. Personally I'm not a fan of the pre-facelift RS3. The PFL headlights are a bit dull in my eyes. It's a nice sleeper, but the FL is a much nicer looking car I feel.
     
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  22. infernox

    infernox Well-Known Member Team Glacier Team Mythos Audi S3 Audi RS3 S tronic

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    Yeah that's the main issue, adults getting into the back. I thought it might be better with how big the car is but its pretty similar to smaller 3 door hatchbacks I've had before and I don't want to deal with it.

    In terms of RS3 vs RS5, tech wise they're pretty much on par. Same MMI software but the screens on the RS5 are a bit bigger, downside is the main centre screen doesn't retract. You can get heads-up display on the RS5 which isn't available on the RS3, not a big deal to me. You get parking system plus as standard on the RS5, guess it can be useful for tight spots to get the car to park for you. Electric seats are standard on the RS5 and they have massage functions too. You don't get the aluminium race inlays with the lights on the RS5 but then the RS5 does have the LED interior multi-colour lighting which is a notch above the RS3. 3 zone climate control on the RS5 vs 2 zone on the RS3 but it doesn't matter if adults don't want to get in the back of RS5 lol. Electric boot is a useful feature on the RS5, not a big thing for me though personally. B&O 3d sound on the RS5 will most likely sound better than the RS3 B&O. You can get more carbon packs on the RS5 if that's your thing. So the extra tech on the RS5 aren't game changers for me, nice to have though.

    Interior wise the RS5 is better than the RS3 overall. Better seats, more space, the LED lighting, Electric seats are standard (even lumbar support isn't standard on RS3) and better quality interior. I haven't driven either car yet so can't comment on that. Looks wise, I like both. Some angles the RS3 Saloon looks better and in others the RS5 does. I wish the RS3 saloon bonnet was longer. The RS5 boot is massive, I think they could have made it smaller and increase the space in the rear seats.
     
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  23. q5man

    q5man Mythos Appreciator Team Mythos TFSI Owners Group Gold Supporter quattro Audi Q5

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    Sounds like you should get an RS5 @infernox or at least drive one
     
  24. Evil Derboy

    Evil Derboy Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi RS5 Owners Group

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    RS5 comes with neither electric boot opening nor Park Assist (automatic parking) as standard. Not sure what the Parking System Plus that you’re referring to is but it’s not self-park.
     
  25. infernox

    infernox Well-Known Member Team Glacier Team Mythos Audi S3 Audi RS3 S tronic

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    Huh, like I said I need to fit adults in the back at times so it's not in the question any-more :icon thumright:

    I was just saying it from what the Audi configurator shows online. 'Parking System Plus' is just the parking sensors, I was wrong with the self parking, that's in 'Parking Assistance Pack Advanced'. The electric boot I'm referring to is 'Electric boot lid release' which is standard on the config, I think its that kicking motion under the rear bumper to open the boot.
     
  26. Evil Derboy

    Evil Derboy Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi RS5 Owners Group

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    Yeah it does have that. Comes with Blind Spot Assist as standard which is pretty good.
     
  27. q5man

    q5man Mythos Appreciator Team Mythos TFSI Owners Group Gold Supporter quattro Audi Q5

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    Was tongue in cheek, hit it did say it didn’t matter if the adults didn’t want to get in the back of RS5....**** ‘em I say
     
  28. Evil Derboy

    Evil Derboy Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi RS5 Owners Group

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    That’s my attitude. I bought the car for me, not folk that might want a lift.
     
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  29. D0C

    D0C Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team Panther TTRS Audi RS3

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    Is the RS5 interior not similar to the RS4? I assumed it was and if that's the case then the interior is a definite step up?
     
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  30. Evil Derboy

    Evil Derboy Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi RS5 Owners Group

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    Same interior. Definitely a step up in terms of design and aesthetics but no difference in tech.
     
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  31. infernox

    infernox Well-Known Member Team Glacier Team Mythos Audi S3 Audi RS3 S tronic

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    As an update to this thread, I did end up getting an RS3 Saloon this week. Got a used one near me, fairly low mileage and great condition. You can see the spec in my signature, loving it so far. The exhaust sound is definitely a big step up from the S3, which you could hardly hear other than the DSG Bangs on upshifts. Comfort wise, it feels pretty much the same but I do think it feels slightly softer over bumps or I feel them less in this car. The car does feel bigger being a saloon and also being wider than the S3. Looking back through the side mirrors while driving you notice less space between the car and the road lines. Still I've had no trouble in the multi-storey car park I use regularly but I've been driving slower through them. I've been getting people looking at my car while driving past them which was unusual to me as hardly anyone looked at the S3, even had some teenagers say 'look its an RS3' when driving past them. The cold starts are loud and attract attention but everyone I know has said the car looks great.

    In terms of driving differences to the S3, the S3 seems more suited to city driving so far. It changes gears more smoothly and I've noticed it had more low down torque. I remember reading on here from someone else who switched from an S3 to the RS3 that they thought the bigger 2.5L engine would have more low down torque due to displacement but you don't feel it. You do notice the bigger turbo while driving with the extra turbo lag. In terms of the smoothness the S3 had, the gearing is different in the RS3. On my way to work and back I've been noticing it, on the S3 is would shift gears sooner. You'd be in 3rd gear around 16 MPH, 4th gear at around 21/22 MPH, 5th gear at 26/27 MPH and 6th gear at 32/33 MPH. On the RS3, it shifts to 3rd around 18/19MPH, 4th gear was around 24/25 MPH, 5th gear is 29/30 MPH and 6th gear was around 36 MPH. It doesn't seem like much but it does feel less smooth when you're behind other cars. Manual mode feels better though as you don't mind the 1st to 2nd gear change limitation, you want to shift after 10MPH whereas you'd want to shift earlier at around 7/8 MPH but it wouldn't let you on the S3. I think I'll be driving in manual mode from now on. It could also be from however the owner before me drove it and the computers are slowly adapting to my driving style, I did notice it shifting a bit faster today compared to yesterday. On the motorway you do hear the engine noise quite a lot in Dynamic mode cruising at 80 MPH so decided to switch to comfort which totally took out the sound, never had to do that with the S3.

    Overall I'm loving the car and can't help but smile while driving it. It feels like I should have got this car to begin with and skipped the S3 but it wasn't available at that time. Driving it with the roof open especially is great. I still do miss the S3 though, was a great car.
     
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  32. q5man

    q5man Mythos Appreciator Team Mythos TFSI Owners Group Gold Supporter quattro Audi Q5

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    Nice one, any pics?
     
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  34. infernox

    infernox Well-Known Member Team Glacier Team Mythos Audi S3 Audi RS3 S tronic

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    I'll put some up later. Pretty much the same as the glacier white pictures I added months ago to the 'Post pics of Facelift RS3' thread.
     
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  35. keenu

    keenu Active Member Team Navarra Audi S3 saloon S tronic

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    As someone with a S3 saloon FL who is looking at getting an RS3 saloon it was interesting hearing your thoughts.
    I also heard that the S3 has more low down torque, this is due to the smaller turbo as it is quicker to spool up than the larger one in the RS3. So the S3 might feel faster during the early gears. My only other issue with the RS3 (apart from the price!) is the smaller boot (due to the battery in the back), I have a baby and need to put the pram in the back, so i need all the space i can get. So all in all, i might just wait for the next gen RS3 as my S3 saloon is still a great car and ticks all the boxes.
     
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  36. D0C

    D0C Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team Panther TTRS Audi RS3

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    The boot is barely any smaller. I certainly wouldn't let that stop you from getting an RS3. It's leagues ahead of the S3.
     
  37. teslaboy

    teslaboy Mythos black RS3 8v FL Audi S3 Audi RS3

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    I've gone from numerous S3s the the RS3 SB.
    Completely different drive, the RS is far more aggressive. Albeit i did have the S3 manual.
    As for the S3 having more low down torque, i dont see that at all, not even remotely.
    Regading the boot space issue, nothing to worry about in the SB. Not sure about the saloon though...
     
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  38. zaka7

    zaka7 Well-Known Member Team Nardo Audi RS3 Sportback S tronic

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    RS3 is another Level to the S3, I did love my S3, but it certainly didn't pull or drive anything like the RS. No doubting it is a great car. But you just can't compare them
     
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  39. infernox

    infernox Well-Known Member Team Glacier Team Mythos Audi S3 Audi RS3 S tronic

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    Going from a Saloon S3 to a Saloon RS3, you won't notice as many differences as me. Like I never knew the RS3 Saloon didn't have a rear wiper and I'm pretty sure the front doors are either smaller or more forward than the S3 Sportback. Having driven it a bit more now, the difference in low down torque isn't as much as I first thought. It actually feels like there's more of a dead zone with the accelerator pedal, like I have to press it down a bit more to get the same torque than the S3. As I'm getting more used to it, the low down torque and general progression feels better. So I was driving the RS3 like an S3 if that makes sense. For the difference in the gears, it only really sticks out at 30mph, other than that it feels fine. If you're on a 30mph speed limit road, it'll be in 4th gear. Go up to 32 MPH then it'll go into 5th. A bit annoying for me, there are times where you just set the cruise on 30mph and the S3 would be in 5th, sometimes even 6th but the RS3 will be in 4th. Even in manual mode it won't let you shift to 5th at 30mph. It does let you stay in 5th if you're going downhill but you don't need it then. It's just a minor annoyance though. One good thing over the S3 is that in Manual mode, shifting to 2nd after 10mph feels natural so that restriction doesn't bother me any-more.

    Can't talk for a Manual S3 FL as I've never driven it. At the multi-storey car park I go to, I used to have to go Manual mode in S gearbox and leave it in 1st gear when going up the ramps, otherwise it'd shift to 2nd and it'd have less torque. On the RS3 though, I tried the same and it had less torque in 1st gear doing that, I've found the best way was to leave it in D gearbox with it shifting to 2nd helping it go up the ramp smoothly. The steering does feel better on the RS3 but I can't explain why, still not much steering feel though compared to what the older cars had. The boot seems big enough for me but the best thing for you would be to try it out at your local Audi dealer. I thought it was nice that the boot opens by itself when you unlock it.

    I had some people take pictures of the car while I was driving today. Strange but good feeling, never had that in the S3. I like driving it with the pan roof open to hear the exhaust more. You definitely get some pops and bangs if you're in Neutral and revving at a stop, just get to around 3k rpm and then take your foot off. I've seen some vids where they go up to 4k or more revs but it doesn't sound as good. Here's some random pics I took of the car before buying it and after.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    There's also this video a detailer made which is quite helpful for when I'll need to clean my car.

     
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  40. q5man

    q5man Mythos Appreciator Team Mythos TFSI Owners Group Gold Supporter quattro Audi Q5

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    Very nice mate, glad you got one in the end and are enjoying
     
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  41. royalsteve68

    royalsteve68 Well-Known Member TeamMisano Team Ara Blue Audi S3 Audi RS3

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    I don’t understand these moron councils etc that design Carpark’s like that. Probably either tree huggers, cyclists, Vauxhall drivers. I now refuse to park in those sorts of Carpark’s, I take my business elsewhere. In reading, I refuse to go into car hating reading Carpark’s and now go to Bracknell instead where someone with a brain has designed the new carpark, even a q7 or Range Rover can park there and open doors no probs.
     
  42. D0C

    D0C Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team Panther TTRS Audi RS3

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  43. keenu

    keenu Active Member Team Navarra Audi S3 saloon S tronic

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    I think i would the have to check the boot space first. Length and width wise i know its the same but height wise i only have a few inches spare with the S3 saloon boot with the pram in the back. Going from a FL S3 saloon to FL RS3 saloon I am not sure its a big enough jump, of course its faster and sounds a lot better but interior wise it will be the same to me (my S3 is pretty well spec'ed). I am not sure if i can justify spending that much on a car I am already familiar with hence I might just wait for the new RS3 model when it comes out. My pcp on my car runs out in 2021 so hopefully it will be out around then!
     

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