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Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

Prawn Dec 29, 2010

  1. SHUk

    SHUk Once Bitten Forever Smitten =]

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    Makes me think what my 200k plus agu engine might have waiting in the wings to surprise me with.

    This sounds like what I would be all over! Keep it up geez. Redundancy is your friend best to be safer than sorry... =]
     
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  3. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    0.5mm warp.
    ****** previously, stressed, unbolt - stress relieved banana
     
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  4. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    You never know, they're ****** tough things!

    My old agu came out at 216k having never had the head off, and was making over 300bhp without any issues! I still wouldnt fancy using any parts from it in new build though.

    Continuing the theme of hopefully being past the worst of it, this arrived yesterday!

    [​IMG]

    Shiney!

    :racer:
     
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  5. Rainbird

    Rainbird Well-Known Member

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    Would I be right in thinking you'll be paying Dan another visit for VSR treatment once this is all bolted up together, rather than relying on everything being component balanced only?
     
  6. antwan64og

    antwan64og Well-Known Member

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    Off topic but Does Emerald do slew rate traction control or anything?

    DTA now offer a PNP connector for the AGU if you ever did fancy upping the stakes.....

    You need to spend all your money now before the baby starts Nursery!!!
     
  7. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    I don't even have the turbo at the moment mate, it's with Dan.

    He will be supplying the new bearing housing, metal cage, and ceramic ball bearings, and installing the whole lot and balancing. It'll be a new turbo to all intents and purposes :)

    More of an even side step than a step up I think there Ant. My k6 doesn't do traction control no, although the k6+ does and it's a fairly simple swap.

    Alex ( @sparrow) has developed the plug n play agu loom for his dta ecus and I believe it's a great product, it just wasn't available when I was in need of a new setup or I may well have considered it.

    Having gone down the emerald route and liking it as much as I do, I won't be changing away from it any time soon!
     
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  8. bigal 1

    bigal 1 Well-Known Member

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    Nursery is free, with a bit of luck.
     
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  9. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Assuming you hurry up and actually move up here any time soon :laugh:
     
    SHUk likes this.
  10. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    Ah Nick we were deciding to do Cadwell again or Donny in October, and weve all chosen Donny as we've never drove it!

    ******.

    Could have finally tried to chase you ;)
     
  11. snowy

    snowy Active Member

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    Would it need the ABS controller and its wheel speed sensors for that to work ?
     
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  13. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    It would indeed, hence why I've left all that in still should I ever go down that route :)
     
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  14. SHUk

    SHUk Once Bitten Forever Smitten =]

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    Prawn! Things are looking good... =]

    How'd you find using the emerald ecu? Did you install it yourself? Was it easy to setup with basic computer knowledge?

    Thanks
     
  15. bigal 1

    bigal 1 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Shuk, installed by Nicholas and fairly easy to set up. A really good move to go to Emerald. Different maps can be added in an instant and tweaking is so easy.

    Nicholas is so busy at the moment with work and Oliver that he has no time to post.

    The engine and head are coming together with the machining now done by Bill, just have to build the bottom end next weekend and then assemble the head. Gearbox is being returned next week with the new Darkside differential , so things are on the move again.

    Hoping to have it ready for October so we can complete a couple of test days on track for appraisal.

    Watch this space.
     
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  16. SHUk

    SHUk Once Bitten Forever Smitten =]

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    And the anticipation builds... =]
     
  17. Rainbird

    Rainbird Well-Known Member

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  18. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Excellent find Rainbird! It won't help those who casually come across the thread when searching, but for anyone who wants to read back on a certain part it works a charm! Nice one :racer:

    Big day planned tomorrow.

    I'll be putting GL10 2DG into the Satnav, and hopefully returning home around 12 hours later with a freshly built 1840cc bottom end!

    Hopefully this will be combined with much tea and chatting as is usually the case :)
     
  19. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Some YTS fella turned up at Bill's and made a mess...

    [​IMG]

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    ...and some odd faces...
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    <tuffty/>
     
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  20. Rainbird

    Rainbird Well-Known Member

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    I'm 83% sure that look is how he ended up with Oliver. Such a stud.
     
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  21. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Its a real Joey how you doin' moment...

    <tuffty/>
     
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  22. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    So, after what felt like a lifetime of planning, staring at parts, and spending large sums of money, everything finally came together yesterday and some really decent progress was made!


    I must start by saying a HUGE thank you to Bill and Tuffty. Much like I found myself saying this time 5 years ago, without those 2 none of this would have been possible. Thanks to Bill for supplying all the parts, machine work, knowledge, and work shop space and time, and thanks to Tuffty for putting up with all my questions, showing me what’s what, and never being more than a few feet away whilst I fumbled my way through my first complete rebuild of a 1.8T yesterday!


    Preperation started on Saturday, with a trip to the Coop to stock up on snacks and supplies. A load of sweet goods for Tuffty. Then it was back to the kitchen to make something for Bill.


    Gops had previously set the bar pretty high by bringing Bill his Mum / Sisters (unsure which!?) home made Pakoras, so I decided to carry on the home made spicy theme, and made Bill a load of Chicken Tandoori :laugh:


    With treats packed, and what few engine parts I still had at home, I set off on Sunday morning, heading for Stonehouse!


    [​IMG]


    On arrival, obviously, tea was made a drunk, and we had a bit of a catch up, before I couldn’t help but wander over to the shiney blue thing sat on an engine stand, with a high end pile of parts beneath it!


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    First up was to unbox the pistons. 82.5mm 9.5:1 Wossners :racer:


    [​IMG]


    My first job was to check all the ring gaps.

    Rings inserted into the bore:

    [​IMG]


    And checked with the feeler gauges:


    [​IMG]


    Thankfully, due to quality parts and experienced machine work, None of them needed any alteration at all!

    All were checked top, middle, and bottom of the bores.

    Top rings were measured at 0.5mm, Second rings were all between 0.5 and 0.55mm. That’s 20thou for the top rings, and 22 thou for the second ring in old money for those used to working in inches. Much bigger gaps than you’d use with stock rings for a road car, but still ever so slightly tighter than Wossner specs for a race engine. I imagine this engine will see considerable road mileage over the next few years, and it’s not going to be run in and straight onto a track, so I think this was a good choice.

    [​IMG]


    Next up was preparing the block for the crank shaft to go in

    We blew out all the galleries, and I wiped all the surfaces over with some brake cleaner to make sure everything was ultra clean:


    [​IMG]


    Oil Squirters were the first thing to go in, with a touch of locktite on the end of the threads:


    [​IMG]


    Next up were the main studs. Considering the power goals, I’d decided to go with ARP main studs, instead of the standard bolts:


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    These were wound into the block and nipped up by hand:


    [​IMG]


    I got the crank from the parts pile, freshly acid cleaned and balanced, it looked like brand new!


    [​IMG]





    You can see here the hefty dowels in the end of the crank to locate the flywheel. These are a bit of an insurance policy really against the flywheel coming lose and fretting against the crank. They also take any chance of sheer loading off the bolts.



    [​IMG]





    You can see here material removed the the crank, it also had one or two shallow holes drilled in place as part of the balancing process:



    [​IMG]





    We decided to fit a brand new trigger wheel to the crank, as it looked like it had been removed during the machining process. Few people know that these are actually a 1 time use part, and once removed they can’t be refitted.



    You can see in this pic how the serrated bolts had chewed the taper inside the trigger:

    [​IMG]



    Trigger off, and I ran a tap through the threads to clean things up:



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    New trigger on:



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    Bolts just 11lbft if I remember correctly, but then 90 degrees after that to get them to bite:



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    Next up I fitted the King racing main bearing shells into the block:



    [​IMG]



    And into the caps too. Note: the 4th cap has a grooved shell just like the shells in the block. All the others are flat



    [​IMG]



    New thrust bearings were stuck to the cap with assembly lube and lubed up:



    [​IMG]





    And also into the block:



    [​IMG]



    The crank was given a final blow through all the galleries with the airline to make sure it’s completely clear inside:



    [​IMG]



    Then, after plenty of assembly lube, the crank was dropped into the block!



    [​IMG]



    Bearing caps were fitted, arp studs lubed with the arp moly grease, then torqued down to 60lbft:



    [​IMG]
     
  23. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    It was around this time that Andrew appeared. Andrew is a customer of Bills, and a long time lurker on here (Hello!) . The dark colourd S3 with orange roll cage and more than a few familiar looking parts would suggest he’s read a page or two of this thread too :racer: very nice to meet you yesterday Andrew, and I hope the thread continues to be useful to you! Best of luck with the S3 and it’s winter plans :)


    Back to the engine, and next up was fitting the pistons to the rods:


    [​IMG]


    Like the standard pistons, they use a little ring clip to hold the pins in place. These were a bit tricky to rotate into place, so I filed the edges very slightly to aid them spinning round 180 from where you install them:


    [​IMG]


    4x shiney wossners on 4 shiney IE rods!


    [​IMG]


    Next up PT showed me how to get the rings onto the pistons without risk of damaging them:


    [​IMG]



    Then I fitted the next 3 pistons rings:


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    I fitted the King Racing shells to the rods, then it was time to install the pistons!


    Wrapped up in the piston ring compressor tool and offered into place:


    [​IMG]


    The first one Tuffty did again, just to show me the best practise, then I did the rest.


    It was quite a tricky process, as you can’t always tell if it’s gone in right. I had to have a second attempt at one as it just didn’t want to go down. We refitted the ring compressor and went again, and all was good:


    [​IMG]


    2 in, 2 to go!


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    And this is the money shot I’ve been waiting for!


    [​IMG]



    With that done, we flipped the engine over and torqued up the big ends.


    These were torqued to 55lbft, torqued and released twice, before being torqued for a 3rd and final time. This is just to make sure everything is seating 100% correctly.

    After that I installed a new oil pump chain tensioner. Only a small part, but something that’s often overlooked:


    [​IMG]


    Then it was time for a brand new OE oil pump:


    [​IMG]


    The oil pump was fitted, with a brand new chain, and the windage tray went on too


    [​IMG]


    Next up was the end seal on the crank. The housing had been cleaned up, and a brand new seal fitted:


    [​IMG]


    Sealant skilfully applied by PT:


    [​IMG]


    And on it went:


    [​IMG]


    Almost done now!


    [​IMG]


    Next up was the IE Billet crank pulley. This is ****** expensive for a little lump of steel, but it’s well worth it as PT found out if you ever get an over rev situation. It’s the little things like this that should ensure the engine is done properly and not just thrown together. Excuse the blurry pic:


    [​IMG]


    The ARP Bolt was lubed under the head, and run on with the gun to seat the pulley, then removed, thread locked, and reinstalled.


    The Homemade looking tool was then bolted up to the pulley to allow tightening of the bolt:


    [​IMG]



    This was torqued to 78lbft, then marked with the paint pen in preparation for the famous ¼ turn that’s so difficult to do:


    [​IMG]


    The torque wrench was then replaced with a huge 3 drive breaker bar. Alex and tuffty held the crank tool on one side, whilst Bill used all his worldly experience to persuade the bar to turn through a full 90 degrees, picking Tuffty and Alex up off the ground in the process :laugh:


    [​IMG]


    Success!


    [​IMG]



    With that done, we removed the engine from the stand, and fitted the other crank seal:


    [​IMG]

    Then it was time to offer the sump up.


    Tuffty had told me about this before, but I’d not seen it for myself. When using ARP main studs, a small section of the sump needs grinding out to gain clearance. You can see here the sump is sitting proud of the block:


    [​IMG]


    A quick play with the grinder and these were removed:


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    The sump then went into the parts washer to remove any swarf:


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    All shiney and ready for installation:


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    Sealant applied:


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    And on it goes!


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    All bolted down:


    [​IMG]


    And that’s the bottom end built and ready to go!


    What a cracking day. It was really nice to do most of it myself this time. Still with advice from Tuffty and Bill, but all the assembly work was done by me this time, so I can proudly say that I built this engine myself. It also means I can’t blame Tuffty when it goes wrong :laugh:


    Before leaving, there was of course more tea, but also time to collect my head.


    Fresh from the machine shop, pressure tested, skimmed, and with new guides, plus 19 valves lapped in. Sadly one exhaust valve was bent, as I think I’ve covered before. So I’ll be lapping that one in myself! My evenings and any spare time will soon be spent assembling the head ready to go onto the block :racer:


    [​IMG]



    Also, to assist in dialling in the NA cams perfectly, I’ve purchased a Cat Cams Vernier pulley from Bill. I was going to buy a brand new one, but Bill had recently removed this one from his Ibiza when swapping cams, so he offered it to me at a great price to save me a few vital pennies!


    [​IMG]


    So, another cracking day at Badger 5 as had. Great advise, good company, and all the knowledge you could ever need to build an engine :) As I said at the start of the first post, I can't thank Bill and Tuffty enough!


    I cannot wait to get things moving again now! The ball is firmly back in my court now, to get the head assembled and on the block, then I can fit the manifold and start sorting out lines, hoses, etc too.


    I’ve got loads of annual leave left to take before Christmas, so once I’ve got a few things sorted out I’ll be booking a few chunks of time off and hopefully it won’t be too long before it looks like a car again!


    Watch this space!
     
  24. bigal 1

    bigal 1 Well-Known Member

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    WOW. I see a second career in race engine building. Well done, and thanks to Bill and Tuffty as well. Its going to be stupendous .
     
  25. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Well-Known Member

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    I call dibs as first customer!
     
  26. Rainbird

    Rainbird Well-Known Member

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    I found that there was something quite therapeutic about methodically going through and stripping down, checking and rebuilding an engine. Sense of satisfaction at the end of it all too (though I'd imagine that soon wears off it you're doing it frequently like Bill & PT)

    Nice that you now know every last detail with this engine :)
     
  27. Golfyste

    Golfyste Member

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    Awesome stuff dude!!
    Looks great and it's great to see some decent progress! Happy for you man
     
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  28. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    I don't get to build them that often but I still enjoy doing it when I get the chance... even building 20v heads doesn't phase me although inlet valve collets are the work of the devil :)

    <tuffty/>
     
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  29. Rainbird

    Rainbird Well-Known Member

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    In that case I know where to come when I need some head work.

    Phrasing, Rainbird. Phrasing.
     
  30. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    :)

    <tuffty/>
     
  31. AndrewM-S3

    AndrewM-S3 New Member

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    Hello! Arm twisted......
     
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  32. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Hows the Fiat? ;)

    <tuffty/>
     
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  34. AndrewM-S3

    AndrewM-S3 New Member

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    Still a Fiat until 31st August. Hopefully might be different from 7th September...... ;)
     
  35. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Then you will just be the bloke that never gets let out of junctions :)

    <tuffty/>
     
  36. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    :sign welcome:
    He's finally joined!

    Welcome to the elite group of about 4 people that actually still post on ASN Andrew :racer:

    Best of luck getting the little red Fiat fixed! Thanks for the link to the roof vent too, that'll be added to the list of things we'd like to do once it's running again!
     
  37. antwan64og

    antwan64og Well-Known Member

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    Nice to see it done!

    Is the fluid damper or ATI damper not recommended for VAG's, It seems to save a few BMWs with the long 6 cyl crank harmonics?

    Prawn, how deep are you into this budget track car? Hit £50k yet, lol.

    Excuse the noob question but no plastiguage?
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  38. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Fluidampr is fine for a 20v... OE damper is fine for most conditions (road cars etc, I still run an OE damper on mine) but fluidampr is a good idea if spending a lot of time at high revs though but another 300-400 quid on the build

    Just don't fit the stupid alloy bling things from neuspeed etc

    <tuffty/>
     
  39. Rainbird

    Rainbird Well-Known Member

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    The first rule of 1.8t club is we never talk ab...
     
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  40. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Fluidampr, nice to have certainly, but as this has been fully balanced, and as it ran for 4 years previously at very high revs and an almost totally stock unbalanced bottom end, I don't see it as an essential thing at the moment.

    Plastiguage, again, you could argue it would have been worth while, but it was a known good crank with immaculate journals, from an engine I've known the history of for many years and used with huge success. 99% end up within spec, so I'm not too concerned there.

    With regards cost, I think Rainbird summed it up nicely here:



    But to satisfy your curiosity, certainly more than half that, and certainly less than all of that :laugh:

    It's safe to say I've done pretty well on the bargains and favours over the years thanks to some very supportive people, and a bit of luck thrown in for good measure :racer:
     
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  41. antwan64og

    antwan64og Well-Known Member

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    Lol, I don't even know why I asked about plastigauge. I didn't even use a torque wrench on the last motor I built and that's still a beast.
    I'll be cannabalising anything I can when the scrapyard motor gets rebuilt.

    I'm just glad to see the N/A cams back in the "Prawnstar"
     
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  42. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Haha. Tuffty said he's never yet seen a 20vt crank fail a plastiguage, and given mine was in such great condition it seemed pointless.

    I did use a Torque wrench though :laugh:

    Back to what I know! My trusty long serving AGU block. Large port head. And NA Cams. Cat Cams pulley should help dial those in perfectly, and I expect the Gt30 will wake it up somewhat too :racer:
     
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  43. GRELA

    GRELA Member

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    looks good, dunno if anyone mentioned it here but i've come past some thread that it's more beneficial to actually giving an oil pump pulley bolt a tack of weld as they can come loose, it did on my mates cupra couple weeks ago, so far that the bolt cracked the sump open :whistle2:
     

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