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Not another Nogaro!!!

IanPG Jun 16, 2016

  1. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    I suspect he means wheel horse power (or kilowatts in this case)

    500hp at the flywheel is a biggish ask (dyno lottery applies) for a 3076 gtx or otherwise without cams... std cams are a restriction... without going through the thread again I can't recall if this engine has cams but they were a big enough restriction on my stroker/GT3582 to limit it to around 470hp... I gained 100hp for no other change other than cams...

    <tuffty/>
     
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  3. IanPG

    IanPG Well-Known Member Silver Supporter Team Nogaro Blue Audi S3

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    Yeah no cams @<tuffty/>

    Just dropped in N/A ones... wild. Hahahahaha
     
  4. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    N/A's should help tbh... have seen mixed results with them but generally they should help get you over std 1.8t cams

    <tuffty/>
     
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  5. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Are you talking whp or bhp when you say 400-450 Ian?
     
  6. IanPG

    IanPG Well-Known Member Silver Supporter Team Nogaro Blue Audi S3

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    They’re measuring ATW in AWD mode so let’s talk wheel...

    065F5008-DA10-450B-9D1E-745DD7958B2B.jpeg


    Still a base map
     
  7. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    ~265whp then.

    Odd looking dyno though, shows nearly 11000 rpm! Still a fair way to go on that I'd think.
     
  8. IanPG

    IanPG Well-Known Member Silver Supporter Team Nogaro Blue Audi S3

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    they were saying something about the rpm not calibrated right

    ... and yes... hopefully still plenty of ponies to round up - once i can keep the boost in where it needs to be!
     
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  9. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    I suppose in Australia every other cars a ut and 4wd so they map like that. Will it be less or more? Surely there must be so much loss how will they calculate the crank hp?
     
  10. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Depends on the type of dyno to how it calculates transmission loss.

    The issue is that most of the time the haldex has a fit and you can’t get smooth enough runs and torque/power readings.
     
  11. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't they be better off pulling the haldex fuse?
     
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  13. IanPG

    IanPG Well-Known Member Silver Supporter Team Nogaro Blue Audi S3

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    How would a blue Haldex controller affect this?
     
  14. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    With their special 4 WD dyno does the front wheels drive the back wheel rollers as a blue controller is not "always on" is? My last 2 MOTs don't involve a rolling road for anything as I think the Haldex gets confused if the front wheels and the back wheels are rotating at a similar speed?
     
  15. IanPG

    IanPG Well-Known Member Silver Supporter Team Nogaro Blue Audi S3

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    I believe blue controller is 50/50 at 50% or over of throttle.

    I’m not sure how a dyno works though where front wheels would drive the rear rollers...
     
  16. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Not exactly no...

    PDF on how the haldex works... its for a std controller but all the blue one does is react more affectively/aggressively to the input signals (more proactive than reactive)
    http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_206.pdf

    Haldex of any kind doesn't play well on AWD dynos unless both front and rear rollers are connected and driven by each other...

    Bill runs haldex cars all the time with the haldex disconnected (fuse or plug depending on setup)... only thing you tend get is wheel spin on the more powerful stuff depending on strapping and grip levels...

    Decent (warm) tyres help as does a bit of spray glue but that may not give true figures without coast down loss measurement which a lot of dynos don't do...

    It will be quick enough if built and tuned well... the figure you get will just be what it will be...

    <tuffty/>
     
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  17. IanPG

    IanPG Well-Known Member Silver Supporter Team Nogaro Blue Audi S3

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    Good read there @<tuffty/>

    I do really like this photo. Looking back the car has gone through a hell of a lot. LOL

    I’m excited (and nervous) that’s its now at this stage of the build process.

    B78A9AB8-F700-462C-BF90-963DB1B38524.jpeg
     
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  18. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    beautiful car - I am so jealous - if it is all good and there is nothing more you want to do, then what.... ?
     
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  19. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Probably not hear from him until it breaks...

    I'll expect a post next week...

    <tuffty/>
     
  20. IanPG

    IanPG Well-Known Member Silver Supporter Team Nogaro Blue Audi S3

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    :bye:

    Dont jinx it. please! LOL

    I still have some things to install. A wee oil leak to fix.

    In a couple weeks I should doing a driver training day. That should be fun. Should be a sign of things to come!
     
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  21. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    On a separate note Ian, did you get ME7Logger working via your ODB2 port without a wiring loom update? I get errors connecting, but the tool works fine on a bench kit. It's apparently a common fault on some ME7 car's needing a modification to create a K-Line wiring update from ODB2 to ECU?

    I do love your Scottish (a wee oil leak) are you really just up north of us English guys and post via a VPN?
     
  22. IanPG

    IanPG Well-Known Member Silver Supporter Team Nogaro Blue Audi S3

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    Yeah i love pulling data from me7logger i do this thing though to get it there and i can't use my ross tech. i need to use the cheap blue cable

    SO with cheap blueie (install drivers, set com ports etc etc.)
    Install nefmoto and get it working
    Instal me7logger and do the whole make an .ecu file, set com ports, set you variables etc. etc.

    to get it working i do

    - ign on
    - open nefmoto and connect it AT ONE OF THE SLOWER SPEEDS
    - disconnect and leave nefmoto open
    - open me7logger and connect
    - it should start logging and the ".........." will keep getting longer
    - start the engine
    - you're now gathering data

    Hahahaha i have been up to your highlands but i am genuinely down under :D
     
  23. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I will have a go at that.
    I assume everything works fine on a bench setup?
    I do remember you saying something about this some time ago actually.
     
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  24. Pedrosousa

    Pedrosousa Member

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    To use me7logger I run the car with the dash off.
    I start the car, then remove the two 5amp fuses and finally I connect the session...

    With imo off you can turn the car on with the fuses removed

    Enviado do meu SM-G950F através de Tapatalk
     
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  25. IanPG

    IanPG Well-Known Member Silver Supporter Team Nogaro Blue Audi S3

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    Another hitch - fuel pressure is dropping once on full chat

    Coasting
    1B9A3F41-EC9D-40EF-B534-7012D657A2F6.jpeg

    Foot down
    08784E2A-6670-4BFC-A0EA-92ED8BACEB59.jpeg

    The dip
    C2838FE4-57D0-4635-B9E5-A6CB3ABE520E.jpeg
     
  26. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    is it dropping with boost though... don't forget fuel pressure is fpr rating + boost... although if thats saying 3 bar thats not so good...

    <tuffty/>
     
  27. IanPG

    IanPG Well-Known Member Silver Supporter Team Nogaro Blue Audi S3

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    CORRect. As boost is really coming on the pressure drops.

    They upgraded thenin tank to a dw65 and currently running a da-31 in line. Going to experiment with Bosch 044 today
     
  28. Stuart B

    Stuart B Well-Known Member

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    Thanks someone did reply on nefmoto suggesting to remove the cluster fuse - I was also recommended to set the connection type to slow-init and top speed - as that wasn't on ME7Logger I have managed to get the VisualME7Logger application working on my bench ECU - so will give that a try tomorrow. I only want to see if the timing goes retarded when pushing on and that my AFR goes down to 12 or whatever. I have driven to 6800 and no hoses popped off so I am confident that the piping is secure(ish)

    Anyway back to your thread Ian - sorry for the hijacking.
     
  29. IanPG

    IanPG Well-Known Member Silver Supporter Team Nogaro Blue Audi S3

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    unlike mine!!! the hose to the TB is slightly too large and it keeps popping off once boost is high.
     
  30. IanPG

    IanPG Well-Known Member Silver Supporter Team Nogaro Blue Audi S3

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    There’s still something not right and fuel pressure reading is dropping when the turbo comes on full chat (very hard apparently) and options go
    (They already upgraded the in tank to a DW65v)
    - change the in line DA-31 for a Bosch 044 (was told the positive ring terminal was hanging on by a thread)
    - install a surge tank/swirl pot
    - look into upgrading lines + surge + additional in line. Although reading through other setups this shouldn’t need to be done.

    Or does it due to do 1000cc injectors???

    Trying to find other setups that are similar to help guide me but not many about tbh
     
  31. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Bill and tuffty have done plenty, and I'm fairly sure they tend to use a new stock in tank and a da31 or 044.im sure that'd what tuffty uses in standard lines on his gt35 still.

    Unless the parts are faulty I just can't see why they're not doing the job
     
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  32. IanPG

    IanPG Well-Known Member Silver Supporter Team Nogaro Blue Audi S3

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    Yeah I agree... however our fuel is c r a pp y quality compared to yours. Maybe that’s playing a role?

    I’m thinking I need to re visit my fuel pump wiring as I don’t recall making sure I used a thick gauge wire. They also found the in-line DA-31 wasn’t working..l it was priming... but not running... which I think was a bit weird...

    I do have a joiner brass piece from the connection at the engine bay quick connect hose > hose feed to 034 fuel rail. Could that be restricting?
    Other than that it’s all stock lines still....
     
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  34. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    validate fuel pressure off the line into the rail with a known working gauge

    <tuffty/>
     
  35. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Pump not working will act as a restriction... make sure fuelling system is full operative and validate with known working fuel pressure gauge...

    No requirement for a surge tank at the power levels you are running although it is a nice to have for peace of mind...

    This all on pump fuel? not E85?

    <tuffty/>
     
  36. IanPG

    IanPG Well-Known Member Silver Supporter Team Nogaro Blue Audi S3

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    Surge tank for sure down the lines as I would like to track her...

    And yes. All just on our shell v-power 98. No e85 at all

    Copy that and making sure both pumps are working right.

    It sucks because I wanna be in there helping to fix things but 1 full time work and 2 it’s at their workshop so I wouldn’t want to be in their way while I try and rectify these things...
     
  37. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    I've tracked mine for almost 7 years now and never found the need for a surge tank!
     
  38. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    inline pump needs to be wired from a decent feed through a relay thats triggered by the OE pump feed

    It can run off OE wiring and I have done this but in hindsight I wouldn't do it again and wired mine through a relay...

    If fitting a swirl pot inside the car use PTFE lined hose... normal rubber hose sweats and will stink the car out with fuel

    <tuffty/>
     
  39. IanPG

    IanPG Well-Known Member Silver Supporter Team Nogaro Blue Audi S3

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    With a big turbo and 1000cc injectors? There was chat of maybe the in line sucking the in tank’s reserve dry when the turbo hits full chat....
     
  40. IanPG

    IanPG Well-Known Member Silver Supporter Team Nogaro Blue Audi S3

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    Yeah I wired the da-31 in line pump into a relay. Notify else runs off of the relay. I got the signal from this point (Reading leads me to understanding this is for the fuel pump)
    D547DCFB-7687-41F0-B128-7D8CD4581D91.jpeg
    But they found the +ve at the pump literally fell off. So what they did was use new wire at the pump and splice into my wiring that then goes to the relay. So I’m thinking I need to look at my wiring that goes from their new wiring to the 12v at the relay
     
  41. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    That point goes dead on crank IIRC (and/or the yellow... can't remember off hand)... +VE should be from the larger red (30) terminal though and fused obvs...

    Trigger for the relay should be the fused side of the OE pump fuse in the box if the relay is under the dash or picked up from the OE pump under the rear seat

    <tuffty/>
     
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  42. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    No, but well over 265whp, and I'm fairly sure a friend of Bills racing a TT with 500bhp runs the same setup without issues.
     
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  43. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator Audi S3

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    Not had this issue on any of the builds done at Bills... 1000cc, 500+ hp, no swirl pot... you have another issue IMO...

    <tuffty/>
     
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