B9 For info if you are considering a B9 RS4
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Wow that's pretty bad, that rocker design is awful, how they let that slip, it's obvious just by looking at them the pins would fall out.
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Crikey, just the sort of car I would have been considering after the current chariot! Thought the 2.9 V6 would be a nice balance of power/economy....
Personally I’m taking all these videos from VAGTech with a significant pinch of salt.
I’m reading them in the same vain as Evolve’s YouTube content about rod bearings on E9x M3’s.
Yes it happens to some cars. Is every car a ticking time bomb like they make out? Well based on some of the vids where they’ve replaced the bearings (and many show the bearings with VERY little wear) I’m not convinced; I’d even be tempted to go a step further and say it’s been over egged to the point of the M156 head bolt issue - which affected a ridiculously small percentage of very very early cars and only a handful of actual failures were ever reported.
Make of that what you will - the way I’m looking at this is that engine is in a fair few models including the RS4, and if this was common place it would be all over the forums instead of this same one video being repeatedly re-posted… to me it looks like a(nother) company trying to profiteer, and if you search a little more you’ll find a video from an owner who left his car with the same firm showing them ragging his car from cold and his (rebuilt) engine supposedly let go soon after with said company apparently denying all responsibility…
I’m reading them in the same vain as Evolve’s YouTube content about rod bearings on E9x M3’s.
Yes it happens to some cars. Is every car a ticking time bomb like they make out? Well based on some of the vids where they’ve replaced the bearings (and many show the bearings with VERY little wear) I’m not convinced; I’d even be tempted to go a step further and say it’s been over egged to the point of the M156 head bolt issue - which affected a ridiculously small percentage of very very early cars and only a handful of actual failures were ever reported.
Make of that what you will - the way I’m looking at this is that engine is in a fair few models including the RS4, and if this was common place it would be all over the forums instead of this same one video being repeatedly re-posted… to me it looks like a(nother) company trying to profiteer, and if you search a little more you’ll find a video from an owner who left his car with the same firm showing them ragging his car from cold and his (rebuilt) engine supposedly let go soon after with said company apparently denying all responsibility…
The issue isn’t with bearing wear though.
It’s the fact on early cars the needle bearings can ‘drop’ out of the rocker arm at high temps.
He shows the revision in part design in the video which stops them dropping out and destroying the engine in the process.
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I’m aware what he’s claiming, and I’m also aware that the part would probably have to go through some pretty extreme heat cycles to fail in that way - bad or over aggressive tune for example, or perhaps his own garage’s test drive (joking of course)
The same bearings are fitted to the RS3, RSQ3, and other engines and how many failures have we seen reported that were only attributable to this part?
I’d be willing to bet it’s a small number.
034 motorsport over in the US have also been quoted saying they’ve had or are not aware of reports of failures; seems highly unlikely to me that they’d be that prevalent especially with many of the cars with these fitted now approaching the 80-90,000 mile mark.
The same hype is attributed to the M3’s but how many have actually failed due to rod bearings?
I’m aware what he’s claiming, and I’m also aware that the part would probably have to go through some pretty extreme heat cycles to fail in that way - bad or over aggressive tune for example, or perhaps his own garage’s test drive (joking of course)
The same bearings are fitted to the RS3, RSQ3, and other engines and how many failures have we seen reported that were only attributable to this part?
I’d be willing to bet it’s a small number.
034 motorsport over in the US have also been quoted saying they’ve had or are not aware of reports of failures; seems highly unlikely to me that they’d be that prevalent especially with many of the cars with these fitted now approaching the 80-90,000 mile mark.
The same hype is attributed to the M3’s but how many have actually failed due to rod bearings?
Lol I don’t care…….. certainly not to argue the toss over it anyway.
Video was posted as something of interest to potential owners researching the engine.
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The fact that there is a revised part says a lot, it is something I would do if I had one of the hot V cars as a precaution, it is not a difficult job compared to the consequences if you are unlucky. 2018 pre-OPF RS4 is a car I have been looking at for a long time.
AFAIK the RS3 uses a different design where the bearing is fully enclosed.
Carbon build up removal on the hot V engine is more of a concern to me, not as easy to do a walnut blast on. Obviously not needed on cars with dual injection but dual injection mostly died with the addition of the OPF. Another thing that is an actual problem but manufacturers stick their head in the sand.
Most of the problem is how they are driven, mechanical sympathy is not a common thing these days. The fact that most manufacturers think oil can protect the engine for 2 years does not help either.
I don't tend to have a problem with my cars either, BMW or VAG but I drive them with mechanical sympathy, use good oil and change it regularly.
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Yes and no; I still think it has to be taken with a pinch of salt - part numbers are often revised, this isn't necessarily an indicator that the engine is about to catastrophically fail, and with the 4's tending to do far higher miles than 3's more quickly (let's face it many people buy them as rapid motorway munchers hence the lack of many low miler models on the market) I suspect we'd know 6 years on if they were all exploding left right and centre.
If you read other threads on other RS4 forums people have said the part numbers on the Facelift RS3's match these - again it may have changed in future, but I'm not seeing huge reported numbers of failures which is why I feel this is just another money grab opportunity by a few less scrupulous firms; most cars will probably do well over 100k before .
Ultimately it tends to boil down to - would you trust the word of a garage who do this to a customer's car....?
Like yourself, the carbon build-up is the one that bothers me more, and tbh if the engine has to be pulled at the point of a carbon clean you'd probably just opt to have the rockers replaced if the hype was that concerning, *or* if more failures actually start to be reported.
I do also agree the direct injection is a stupid idea, and yes, mechanical sympathy and decent maintenance seems to be in short supply nowadays with more and more drivers overstretching themselves to afford (overpriced) fast cars, run them on a shoe string budget and then crying about it when they break because they skimped on the bread and butter servicing. Absolutely no chance I'd wait 2 years between servicing on any modern performance car!
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I agree.
The facelift cars do not suffer from this issue since most of the internals in the heads have all been revised.
I use millers 5w-40 NT+ and change it every 7k miles ! The 2 year service plan is ok on Porsche's since most of those cars are not driven daily.
Apparently the same bearing design with part numbers matching the prefl B9 are fitted to DAZA RS3's.
They tend to bend rods more than crapping lifters when they go though!
As for porkas - Taycan's are fairly likely to be daily-ed I'd have thought....I guess time will tell. Either way I can't see myself owning one of these without a warranty.
They definitely don't build em like they used to :|
Having looked into it, it seems they do.
It seems the ones that fail are also in the very early DAZA RS3, if you don't think they are causing a problem, look on the US RS3 faceache pages. I think much of this can be avoided with good fuel/oil/maintenance but next time there is work done on my engine I may get them changed for the revised item for what it would cost.
The revised item seems to be different as the RS3 one is fully enclosed but the RS4 item has only larger rollers. You have to look at the revision number on the part number also to see what is fitted to what
?????Okay VAGTech
For anyone else interested, it also happens on the RS3
Yes you’re right, it’s the (2021 on) Panamera, (earlier) Panamera S, and Cayenne S that use the same base engine as the RS4.The Taycan is electric
All those are arguably likely to be daily drivers, so thanks for your input
And yet having owned two RS3’s (one Prefl, one DAZA) in the last 7 years and being part of 4 or 5 enthusiast (and active) groups on face ache I’ve never heard of any complaints in the UK groups of cars going bang from rocker bearings.
Throwing rods out of the block due to tuners running excessive torque on standard engines yes, but on standard cars, or even stage 1/2 cars with reputable companies that are on 80,000+ miles, not a sausage.
There are folks on those groups who daily their cars and regularly launch them and beat on them day in day out, so I’d say nah…more scaremongering.
How many of those muppets would have a clue what caused a single cylinder failure that trashed the engine. How many stump up the cash for a proper diagnostic strip down?
The fact that VAG changed the design to one that does not come apart as easy tells me all I need to know. They wouldn't do that unless it was a problem causing them warranty expense.
It might be an age, mileage, abuse or maintenance issue, it might need all 4 to fail who knows. But until we do, if my cam bridge comes off, new rockers will go in.
You are welcome to think what you want, but if Audi agreed with you they would not have changed the design.
The fact that VAG changed the design to one that does not come apart as easy tells me all I need to know. They wouldn't do that unless it was a problem causing them warranty expense.
It might be an age, mileage, abuse or maintenance issue, it might need all 4 to fail who knows. But until we do, if my cam bridge comes off, new rockers will go in.
You are welcome to think what you want, but if Audi agreed with you they would not have changed the design.
