2.0TDI 190 or 2.0TFSI 190....

[ChrisS1]

Hi all,

So a few weeks ago I ordered my new fleet car:

A4 Avant 2.0TDI ultra 190PS S-Tronic
S-Line
Daytona Grey
Privacy Glass
Tech Pack
Light & Vision Pack
Alcantara
Hill Hold
Deletion of rear badges (no cost)
54 litre fuel tank and 24litre Adblue tank (no cost)

We are not taking delivery until 30th June.

I (naively) assumed I would be better off (as a company car driver) going for the diesel, so didn't even consider the TFSI. However, I was chatting to a colleague and have since done some BIK calculations and it seems from a tax point of view, I would actually be a bit better off going for the TFSI version as the list price is lower.

However, not having test driven the TFSI, I'd appreciate your opinions. I do around 25-30k miles per year and spend a lot of time on the motorway. I see the 0-62 time of the TFSI is slightly quicker, but wondering what the difference in torque is like (320Nm vs 400Nm) in reality.

I also have to consider the downside for the company, which is increased fuel consumption, and I'm guessing increased servicing costs of the TFSI.

The other consideration is that the ROTR price of the car I have already ordered is just over £40k, so might be hit by the new VED banding (meaning a possible increase in the lease price at the time we do the finance agreement), whereas the ROTR price of the TFSI version falls below the £40k threshold).

The spec of the TFSI would be the following (which results in a monthly lease payment within £3 of the TDI already on order):

A4 Avant 2.0TFSI 190PS S-Tronic
S-Line
Daytona Grey
Privacy Glass
Tech Pack
Matrix LED headlights
Virtual Cockpit
Alcantara
Hill Hold
Deletion of rear badges (no cost)


Opinions please!

Many thanks, Chris

 

[cuke2u]

Diesel for a motorway is usually the considered way to go and and with your mileage per year. 80Nm will give you just a bit extra shove, but not that it bothered me as 320 is more than enough. I have driven both and the diesel engine had a low down humming noise to it that was constantly present in comparing it with my car, plus the steering wheel and the pedals had a slight vibration.
The petrol is a class act, quiet and extremely refined and very nippy..

 

[Jcbmally]

Diesel for a motorway is usually the considered way to go and and with your mileage per year. 80Nm will give you just a bit extra shove, but not that it bothered me as 320 is more than enough. I have driven both and the diesel engine had a low down humming noise to it that was constantly present in comparing it with my car, plus the steering wheel and the pedals had a slight vibration.
The petrol is a class act, quiet and extremely refined and very nippy..

What is you average mpg out of the TFSI ?

 

[cuke2u]

Not really a comparison to your driving conditions as I only, well mostly, drive mine on urban trips, but on a run I have seen over 40mpg. Around 30mpg around town which I'm happy with..

 

[ChrisS1]

Thanks cuke2u
I think I need to try to arrange a test drive asap.
My boss is convinced diesels are going to get hammered more and more every budget, so is happy for us to go petrol if we want to. MPG could be worrying as I'm getting mid 50s at the moment in my Golf.

 

[cuke2u]

It'll be mpg that settles it I think but there are other hidden costs that contribute towards the running of a diesel. Personally I have driven both a diesel and petrol engine versions of cars I've owned since 2008 and found the mpg difference very small in comparison.
And to compare like for like, without wishing to start a mpg war. I easily got 50-60mpg from my A3 1.4 petrol engine saloon, which compares to your golf..

 

[ChrisS1]

Well the dealer can't lay his hands on a TFSI for me to test drive and certainly won't be changing the order without driving one.

Has anybody else done a back to back test drive with the two versions?

 

[basegreen]

I did and much preferred the torque of the Diesel.

 

[mjcourtney]

I drove the 2.0TFSI and the 2.0TDI 190 within a week of each other (both s-tronics). General impressions were that the diesel was almost as refined as the TFSI. The TDI had more of a turbo lag than the TFSI but generally they felt very similar in terms of performance. I tend to spend most weekends towing a fully loaded Ifor Williams P6E trailer, so I made the decision to go for the TDI for the extra torque.

Having said all that, I placed my order back in September last year but given the Diesel Gate scandal and the change in attitudes towards diesels i'm not so sure I'd make the same decision if I was ordering now. The dealer was confident the diesel would have the stronger residuals, but I would maybe now start to doubt that. Time will tell!

 

[The Saints]

I have the manual 2.0 TFSI and just approaching 3000 miles. The MPG has settled, for a mixed 40 mile commute (stop/start and motorway) I average around 32-34 MPG. When traveling on mainly A-roads and Motorway I get 42-44MPG.

I have found that Auto mode in drive select is actually more efficient than efficiency mode, probabaly because the throttle response in Efficency is dulled so much I'm actually heavier footed.

 

[cuke2u]

Well the dealer can't lay his hands on a TFSI for me to test drive and certainly won't be changing the order without driving one.

Has anybody else done a back to back test drive with the two versions?

Yes, that is why I have stated that the diesel is not quite as refined as the petrol and the power delivery of the petrol, not torque, makes for a more responsive and dynamic drive. When I went from the diesel back to my car I was spinning up the front wheels when using the same throttle movement...

 

[ChrisS1]

I drove the 2.0TFSI and the 2.0TDI 190 within a week of each other (both s-tronics). General impressions were that the diesel was almost as refined as the TFSI. The TDI had more of a turbo lag than the TFSI but generally they felt very similar in terms of performance. I tend to spend most weekends towing a fully loaded Ifor Williams P6E trailer, so I made the decision to go for the TDI for the extra torque.

Having said all that, I placed my order back in September last year but given the Diesel Gate scandal and the change in attitudes towards diesels i'm not so sure I'd make the same decision if I was ordering now. The dealer was confident the diesel would have the stronger residuals, but I would maybe now start to doubt that. Time will tell!

Thanks mjcourtney,

I won't be towing anything, but will spend a lot of time on the motorway, although I am used to the torque of a diesel, I do love having a thrash in the wife's S1, and she says she will never go back to a diesel (S1 is a pocket rocket and an unfair comparison probably).

Residuals are not an issued for us as we're taking it on contract hire. The only impact residuals have is on the monthly lease amount, and in this case there is only £4 per month difference in favour of the TDI (which would suggest that the TDI residuals are indeed still stronger, but not sure how long that will last as I think diesels will get hit in the next budget).

 

[ChrisS1]

I have the manual 2.0 TFSI and just approaching 3000 miles. The MPG has settled, for a mixed 40 mile commute (stop/start and motorway) I average around 32-34 MPG. When traveling on mainly A-roads and Motorway I get 42-44MPG.

I have found that Auto mode in drive select is actually more efficient than efficiency mode, probabaly because the throttle response in Efficency is dulled so much I'm actually heavier footed.

Thanks,

According to the 'official figures' the S-Tronic is slightly more efficient than the manual, so taking that into account I might be looking at mid to high 40s, which is a big drop from the mid 50s I am currently getting in the Golf, and I would expect more from the A4 2.0TDI 190ps S-Tronic than my 2013 Golf 2.0TDI 150ps manual.

Although the company fuels the car (I pay back 15p per mile for private use), MPG is still important as wouldn't like to inflict a massive fuel bill increase on the company!

This is a real dilemma!

 

[ChrisS1]

Yes, that is why I have stated that the diesel is not quite as refined as the petrol and the power delivery of the petrol, not torque, makes for a more responsive and dynamic drive. When I went from the diesel back to my car I was spinning up the front wheels when using the same throttle movement...

Thanks cuke2u,
I think this is one of those arguments that polarises opinion! I was speaking to my wife about it last night. She switched from a A1 2.0TDI 140ps (which would pull like a train) for a S1 2.0TFSi Quattro and said she will never go back to diesel (I argued that it is in no way a fair comparison, but she was having none of it and I of course submitted and did as I was told!).

Trying my best to arrange a test drive but the dealer is having trouble tracking one down in their fleet for me to test. I might suggest testing the new A5, if they have a TDI and TFSI I can drive back to back.

 

[cuke2u]

Thanks cuke2u,
I think this is one of those arguments that polarises opinion! I was speaking to my wife about it last night. She switched from a A1 2.0TDI 140ps (which would pull like a train) for a S1 2.0TFSi Quattro and said she will never go back to diesel (I argued that it is in no way a fair comparison, but she was having none of it and I of course submitted and did as I was told!).

Trying my best to arrange a test drive but the dealer is having trouble tracking one down in their fleet for me to test. I might suggest testing the new A5, if they have a TDI and TFSI I can drive back to back.

Well you did ask for our opinions and I am the same as your wife being one of those who will never go back to having a diesel and I had one that was remapped that had phenomenal torque. The refinement of these lovely petrol engines Audi are making are just too good..

 

[PhxViper]

Get the TFSI, If the company are paying the majority of the fuel bill then your laughing.

I only get low 30's in mine, but I am very much a short city driver. When I do the longer 100 mile trips on the M1 the car shows 45 ish.

Plus with the TFSI you get the exhaust pipes either side, and that is just cool...

 

[ChrisS1]

Get the TFSI, If the company are paying the majority of the fuel bill then your laughing.

I only get low 30's in mine, but I am very much a short city driver. When I do the longer 100 mile trips on the M1 the car shows 45 ish.

Plus with the TFSI you get the exhaust pipes either side, and that is just cool...

Haha, good point, it does look much better with the pipes on either side!

 

[duckduck]

TFSI all the way!

 

[ChrisS1]

Ok the dealer has tracked down a 2.0TFSI S-Tronic saloon I can test drive on Monday, so will see how it compares!

 

[cuke2u]

Make sure you drive it in sport mode

 

[holly35]

I drove them both,TFSI won hands down for me.
Super smooth and quiet also economical.The diesel just didnt match the petrol .I also feel a dark cloud looming for all diesel cars.Of course despite all the press in the UK and grumblings from the Govt about fumes etc i can see it simply causing diesel owners to be hammered by tax ,both on cars and fuel.
Its always the way it goes....screw the motorist even more.

 

[wideboybloke]

TFSI owner here too and I agree with all the comments from other TFSI owners. It is quick, quiet and very refined. I am very much a petrol fan and would never consider diesel at any price, but in January I had a TDI 150 as a loaner for a week and I must say it was very impressive, both in terms of power and refinement once up to cruising speed. With your projected annual mileage, diesel would deliver a significant saving in fuel costs, but I would also be worried about where diesel is going with all the current talk about pollution and speculation about diesel scrappage schemes - even if it were a company vehicle.

I measure my fuel consumption each time I fill up and over 4,500 miles my mpg figure varies between 36 and 38. The long term memory on the DIS shows 36.8, which is consistent. The most economical figure I have achieved according to the DIS while driving is 45 mpg and that is on a steady motorway cruise.

 

[A4B9]

I think all this talk of scrapping diesels and charging to enter city centres only applies to older vehicles so it's irrelevant on a new car. VED has only been changed recently and it's not even if effect yet so I can't see that changing for a very long time

 

[Bellasdad]

I've had my 2.0 Tfsi s tronic for just over a month now after owning diesels for the past good few years. I can honestly say it's superb in every respect and I'm already averaging 40 mpg after only putting 700 miles on the clock and I'm sure this figure will improve even more over time. The car is so quiet and refined it's a joy to drive and the acceleration is amazing when the need arises. I've started leaving it in the auto set up rather than comfort, it makes for a quicker getaway from roundabouts and junctions.

 

[Simonb1975]

I think all this talk of scrapping diesels and charging to enter city centres only applies to older vehicles so it's irrelevant on a new car. VED has only been changed recently and it's not even if effect yet so I can't see that changing for a very long time

Although if I was to say take a TDI on a 4 year pcp, I would like to consider what may happen in the coming years.
If the Government want to get people buying petrols instead the incentives will most probably be making diesel more expensive to own/run.

Only theories at the moment but if your putting your hard earned cash down, it must be a factor. Obviously if your doing 25K+ then it's still pretty much a no brainer.

I'm using our diesel Mondeo at the moment and only covering 8-10K per year. It's far move comfy than my S3 and the Torque on offer makes those little spurts of acceleration unnoticeable. I would of considered a diesel replacement but not now. As above the mileage doesn't warrant it and 'other' factors for me make it less desirable

 

[A4B9]

but are they going to incentivise petrol? The issues of c02 and climate change that petrol cause are still as applicable today as they were 10 years ago when they wanted us to buy "cleaner" diesel

 

[Simonb1975]

but are they going to incentivise petrol? The issues of c02 and climate change that petrol cause are still as applicable today as they were 10 years ago when they wanted us to buy "cleaner" diesel

No, personally I think the incentive will just be by making the other option more expensive. We are a long way from getting rid of petrol/diesel anyway.

 

[wideboybloke]

I think the incentives will go into electric. The problem so far has been battery capacity, but last year Renault introduced a version of the Zoe that can cover something like 200 miles (I can't recall the exact range) so progress towards fossil fuel ranges is being made. Like everything, battery technology will eventually evolve to the point where the choice becomes unarguable.

 

[Rob_F]

Another vote for the petrol. I've got a fuel card so like you MPG means nothing. Currently getting low 40s on my hour commute (mix of city and lovely twisty A roads). Always had a diesel previously but the BIK for the TFSI S-tronic was the deciding factor. BIK on the automatic was lower than the manual.


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[ChrisS1]

Thank you all for the information. I'm test driving it this afternoon. I'll make a decision then. My wife says I'm stupid if I want the diesel instead of the petrol, so that may be the deciding factor

If I go for the petrol and can average mid 40s on a decent run then I can live with that (we have a pick up and a crossover on the fleet with much lower MPGs so the A4 shouldn't ring any alarm bells!)

 

[wideboybloke]

I predict that whatever fuel consumption you achieve, the refinement of the tfsi will compensate for any loss of expectation. I don't cover a high annual mileage, so I'm happy to meet the extra fuel cost for the enjoyment I get from having stuck with petrol.

 

[ChrisS1]

And our survey says.......

Just had a very quick test drive in a saloon 2.0TFSI 190 S-Tronic and was very impressed. It was certainly no slouch and has a nice growl under heavy acceleration. I wasn't able to take it on a dual carriageway so it was difficult to compare what difference the 80 less Nm of torque makes.

I have decided to switch my order to the TFSI and I know I won't be disappointed. Even if it turns out to be a bit of a compromise on the motorway, I figure it will still be an improvement on the Golf I have now (which has 300Nm of torque) and overall it makes sense for me (from a BIK) point of view due to the lower list price of the TFSI vs the TDI.

A bonus point is the improved aesthetics of the rear end with the split pipes. Nice touch (although by no means a deciding factor!)

The order has been amended and the week 12 build slot is unaffected. I had to remove the light & vision pack as it's no longer available, but I have specced the Matrix Lights and Virtual Cockpit as separate options (I'm not fussed about the additional LED light pack). The contract hire will cost about £4 per month more.

The car should arrive at the dealership in April, but we're not taking delivery until the end of June. Roll on June!

Thanks for everybody's input!

 

[holly35]

Youve made the right choice although you will regret not adding the colour led light package.Of all the options available its a very low cost addition which has a bigger visual impact than virtually any other option,

 

[ChrisS1]

Youve made the right choice although you will regret not adding the colour led light package.Of all the options available its a very low cost addition which has a bigger visual impact than virtually any other option,

Thanks Holly35,
The car drives great and can't wait to get it now. It's going to be a long few months!

I'm really not fussed about the extended LED light package, I would have left it on white anyway (my brother in law has a similar thing in his BMW and can't help but think it makes the car look Japanese, or like a 19 year old has had a £100 Halfords voucher for his birthday and has gone wild installing after-market lights).
Each to their own though!

 

[cuke2u]

It's a matter of opinion but for me the extended led package is one of the coolest things. Maybe I am just showing my 'chavvy' upbringing ;-)

 

[BigAardvaark]

Ditto Cuke, I like it but the kids ****** love it! "Can we change colours, can we change colours?!!"

 

[ChrisS1]

Well as my dear old Nan says.... Wouldn't life be boring if we all liked the same things!

 

[BigAardvaark]

With an awfully long queue!

 

[duckduck]

Lol. The extended lights are cool to play with. I set mine to change with drive select. However, i really do not notice them when I'm driving. if buying again I wouldnt bother speccing them but would spend the money on some other option. The only "must have" for me is the tour pack with the ACC.

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[cuke2u]

Mmm, I can see a 'must haves' thread starting'.