Injectors/water meth

[Emmsy]

Morning everyone.

I'm hoping this hasn't been asked before as I could not really find anything, but was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction towards a good set of 630cc injectors please and to the best place to go for them, pretty new to all this and with work struggle to find the time to sit for hours.

Plus do people have any experience with the Devils own water/meth kit and what are your thoughts on them.

Cheers

Taylor

 

[<tuffty/>]

Why 630cc? what turbo/power level are you trying to fuel?

Let me justify the question a little by adding that most 630cc injectors are sh*te and there are better ways to approach fuelling..

<tuffty/>

 

[Emmsy]

Morning

The turbo I have is an aet 380 so going to go for 380/400.

I was just going of regards from my tuner reference the injectors I just got a list of things to empty the bank account on

 

[scotty_24]

I use D03 post intercooler and D01 at the throttle body, with a Devils own 6-30 PSI Base kit with solenoid and dual port upgrade.
Devils own are fairly well thought of, their controllers are known to be iffy.
Always run a solenoid and dont rely on a mechanical check valve, these have been known to fail and syphon meth at idle / vacuum.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Ok... I suspect your tuner is referring to the 630cc Bosch injectors that were being banded about a while back... have seen a mixed bag with those as some appear to be copies and don't flow as much or are not flow matched... surely your tuner would know where to buy them from if they recommend using them as most tuners prefers injectors they know they can map well rather than a just a particular flow rate as not all injectors act the same way particularly at idle and cruise where linearisation tends to drop off.

I used genuine Bosch 550cc and a 4bar FPR back when I ran a GT3071 for 400hp... never skipped a beat... you will need to fit a deatschwerks pump or inline pump to support fueling though...

Do NOT buy Seimens Deka 630's though... they are an actual pile of p00p...

<tuffty/>

 

[Emmsy]

I think I'll go back to him then and might say about the 550cc if you have had no problems with it, I have got the inline fuel pump seen people's threads on here and went for the da31, I was going to get the inline splice kit that badger 5 do to incorporate it into the line unless people have different ideas on that front.
Thanks for the advice on the meth kit think I'll defo go for the solenoid option on that one as well

Taylor

 

[<tuffty/>]

I think I'll go back to him then and might say about the 550cc if you have had no problems with it,

Don't forget it will need a 4bar FPR to up the flow rate... 550's at 4bar is around the 630cc mark flow wise

I have got the inline fuel pump seen people's threads on here and went for the da31, I was going to get the inline splice kit that badger 5 do to incorporate it into the line unless people have different ideas on that front.

Inline using Bill's line adaptors is fine... mine is still in this configuration and working well...

Don't forget to wire the pump from a decent 12v source through a relay... pigging backing the inline off the feed to the intank puts a little too much strain on the wiring... relay can be switched form the intank feed though

<tuffty/>

 

[scotty_24]

 

[scotty_24]

Thats how my DA31 with Badger5 in line fittings is wired up, wiring diagram courtesy of Prawn

 

[Emmsy]

Cheers tuffty some pretty important info there, ha ha you can't go wrong with that picture so basic but straight to the point, although where are people inline slicing the pumps to there cars if you don't mind.

Sorry about all the questions would just rather get it right than have to re visit it at a later date

Cheers

Taylor

 

[<tuffty/>]

Cheers tuffty some pretty important info there, ha ha you can't go wrong with that picture so basic but straight to the point, although where are people inline slicing the pumps to there cars if you don't mind.

Sorry about all the questions would just rather get it right than have to re visit it at a later date

Cheers

Taylor

Have you read my thread at all? a lot of this is covered off there... its fairly big and you will have to wade through the rambling but lots of pics...

Page 4/5 or something has initial info on the pump fitting... but note my thread is an evolution so stuff I did in the early has been changed to overcomes issues that arose over time... page 7 is where the pump gets changed to the DA31 and where the push fit ends came from... later on (from page 53) I rewired using a relay etc and picked up the switching in a different place from the fuse box...

May take you a day or two to go through but should give you some ideas...

<tuffty/>

 

[Emmsy]

Perfect cheers tuffty, luckily it's the weekend for me now and as I work in an alcohol free country it will give me something to do for the weekend

Cheers

Taylor

 

[Madmax199]

Why 630cc? what turbo/power level are you trying to fuel?

Let me justify the question a little by adding that most 630cc injectors are sh*te and there are better ways to approach fuelling..

<tuffty/>

Although I totally agree that Deka/Siemens are a pile of p00p as you put it, I wouldn't say that most 630 injectors are crap. Many good options out there, genuine Bosch EV14, Genesis 2, and the Genesis 2 double foggers are all very good and capable (I have tried them all on E85 from 3 bar up to 4.5 bar rail pressure).

Depending on the tuner, he may want the extra headroom provided by the 630s. Many tuners are against running higher than 3 bar rail pressure because there are some cons to running higher (strain on fuel pump, and limiting pressure left for boost before going static of OEM rail flow).

Personally, and it's only a matter of opinion and personal experience. From stock, the next smart injectors upgrade should always be 630. The 440 and 550 to me are odd sizes that don't make too much sense (kinda like tyre sizes, there are some odd in-between sizes that don't make too much sense). The 630 are small enough to give stock-like idle characteristics and good low-load control -- but also good enough to provide enough fueling for a wide range of hardware and power goals (and doing so at low duty cycle). Not saying 440s 550s don't have their place, but I'm not against the tuner recommending to jump right onto the 630s.

 

[Erikn89nl]

"lots of stuff"

I really appreciate the insights from a different 'culture', it's great to have input from an environment with an alternate perception of what's "good" or "best".
I've really enjoyed your recent input to this forum, and I hope you'll continue to share your views and (solid) reasoning behind them

 

[scotty_24]

I really appreciate the insights from a different 'culture', it's great to have input from an environment with an alternate perception of what's "good" or "best".
I've really enjoyed your recent input to this forum, and I hope you'll continue to share your views and (solid) reasoning behind them

Second that, great positive input

 

[<tuffty/>]

Although I totally agree that Deka/Siemens are a pile of p00p as you put it, I wouldn't say that most 630 injectors are ****. Many good options out there, genuine Bosch EV14, Genesis 2, and the Genesis 2 double foggers are all very good and capable (I have tried them all on E85 from 3 bar up to 4.5 bar rail pressure).

Depending on the tuner, he may want the extra headroom provided by the 630s. Many tuners are against running higher than 3 bar rail pressure because there are some cons to running higher (strain on fuel pump, and limiting pressure left for boost before going static of OEM rail flow).

Personally, and it's only a matter of opinion and personal experience. From stock, the next smart injectors upgrade should always be 630. The 440 and 550 to me are odd sizes that don't make too much sense (kinda like tyre sizes, there are some odd in-between sizes that don't make too much sense). The 630 are small enough to give stock-like idle characteristics and good low-load control -- but also good enough to provide enough fueling for a wide range of hardware and power goals (and doing so at low duty cycle). Not saying 440s 550s don't have their place, but I'm not against the tuner recommending to jump right onto the 630s.

Wasn't much in the way of options when I was running dekas and Bosch EV14's were proven and easily available hence going down that route.. there is also the discussion over atomisation with running higher pressure too...

That said I would rather be running 3bar than 4bar ultimately but not really sure where to go next injector wise... (currently 750cc Bosch EV14 @4bar) but thats not really a discussion for this thread

<tuffty/>

 

[Madmax199]

Wasn't much in the way of options when I was running dekas and Bosch EV14's were proven and easily available hence going down that route.. there is also the discussion over atomisation with running higher pressure too...

That said I would rather be running 3bar than 4bar ultimately but not really sure where to go next injector wise... (currently 750cc Bosch EV14 @4bar) but thats not really a discussion for this thread

<tuffty/>

I have seen and skimmed over the last page of your build thread. I'll play catch up today, and if you want you can post about injector options so we can discuss it. I also have experience with 1,000s and now some 1,200s that I run in my car (also played with both low and high impedance types to feel the difference). From what I've learned through my journey with injectors on this platform the sensible and natural progression should be stock --> 630 --> 850 --> 1,200. Yes the in-betweeners have their place, but I could have saved tons of money and headache if I knew this when I started playing with the 1.8t (I'm sure you're in the same boat).

 

[<tuffty/>]

I have seen and skimmed over the last page of your build thread. I'll play catch up today, and if you want you can post about injector options so we can discuss it. I also have experience with 1,000s and now some 1,200s that I run in my car (also played with both low and high impedance types to feel the difference). From what I've learned through my journey with injectors on this platform the sensible and natural progression should be stock --> 630 --> 850 --> 1,200. Yes the in-betweeners have their place, but I could have saved tons of money and headache if I knew this when I started playing with the 1.8t (I'm sure you're in the same boat).

Latest 'phase' of evolution on mine starts from page 53 dude...

<tuffty/>

 

[Madmax199]

I really appreciate the insights from a different 'culture', it's great to have input from an environment with an alternate perception of what's "good" or "best".
I've really enjoyed your recent input to this forum, and I hope you'll continue to share your views and (solid) reasoning behind them

Second that, great positive input

Thank you gentlemen! I have actually jumped ship from the UK TT forum and will continue to actively post. It's funny, the very thing that you guys appreciate are what many individuals had issues with on the TT forum. A different approach, a new outlook, as well as experience of what works and could be proven was not welcomed. Some people I guess are very set in their ways. Cheers!

 

[<tuffty/>]

Thank you gentlemen! I have actually jumped ship from the UK TT forum and will continue to actively post. It's funny, the very thing that you guys appreciate are what many individuals had issues with on the TT forum. A different approach, a new outlook, as well as experience of what works and could be proven was not welcomed. Some people I guess are very set in their ways. Cheers!

TTOC? say no more

Your car isn't shiny enough for them

<tuffty/>

 

[Erikn89nl]

It's funny, the very thing that you guys appreciate are what many individuals had issues with ...

Yeah, I was worried the internet would pull a stunt like that, so I figured I'd voice my appreciation keep up the good work!