Knocking noise on cold start

S

S3 Ste

Registered User
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
23
Reaction score
5
Points
3
Location
NULL
Hi guys,

I have a strange issue with my Audi S3 8P1. When the car is first started from stone cold, the engine appears to make a random knocking / tapping sound which is difficult to locate. At first I thought it may be a tensioner problem, but this seems unlikely.

It only happens for about a minute then the sounds disappear. Also the car puts out a small puff of black smoke when started from cold or driving off from a cold start. I've had my local specialist check the car over and give it a diagnostic scan, but the only fault that showed was an air con fan sensor open-circuit. They never heard the sounds since they started the car, then drove it into a bay inside their garage. The noise never showed because it only happens the first minute of starting.

I had the car remapped a while back, however I removed the map one month later as the clutch started slipping. I replaced it with Sachs organic performance clutch and OEM DMF. The clutch now has just over 2000 miles of running in.

Has anybody experienced something similar to this before or have any ideas what it could be? I'm wondering if it could be oil pressure being a touch low until engine oil has warmed slightly? I plan to book the car into my local Audi garage when possible.

I have uploaded a video of the sound to YouTube:

Cheers
 
More then likely just the oil. Oil is thicker when its cold, once warmed up it flows better....Therefore the engine is slightly nosier on first start up in the morning. I always give mine at least 1 minute to allow the oil to get around the whole engine.

Also, put your ear near the left hand side of the engine/behind the hpfp and listen for the chain tensioner - Could be that too, but I reckon its just cold oil.
 
Thanks for the reply. I was concerned because I have never noticed the noise before; it only seemed noticeable in the last few weeks. I'm using Castrol Edge 5W30 fully syth, the car has just under 60k miles. Since the car is fine when warm, and oil and water temp are fine I didn't think it was anything serious, but better safe than sorry. :sunglasses:
 
Weather has been up and down in the mornings, I have noticed it on mine too. I check the engine oil temp here and there on startup on the computer, just to see how cold it is before driving off.
 
Glad to know other cars do it too. I've noticed once the oil is just reaching 30 degrees the noisesame stop.
 
S3 Ste said:
Audi S3 8P1.

I had the car remapped a while back, however I removed the map one month later as the clutch started slipping. I replaced it with Sachs organic performance clutch and OEM DMF.
Click to expand...

S3 Ste said:
I'm using Castrol Edge 5W30 fully syth
Click to expand...

What stage have you got your S3 mapped to (providing that you have put the map back on as you've now got an uprated clutch)? As your clutch slipped then I presume stage 2+, even though it can slip at stage 1/2 but only when redlining it in 1st before dumping the clutch I find on my 58K S3 (only done this a handful of times though).

Anyhow you should really be running a 5W40 oil when remapped and especially if at stage 2+ or above, viscosity etc. comes into it but the two recommended oils are Millers Nanodrive 5W40 or Motul 300V 5W40.
 
had my car a week, and they are not the quietest engine, a bit ticky/diesel sound when your looking at the motor.....some old posts about this...to do with the direct injection......not a fan of thin oils either......
 
  • Like
Reactions: S3 Ste and kash_v
HHS3 said:
What stage have you got your S3 mapped to (providing that you have put the map back on as you've now got an uprated clutch)? As your clutch slipped then I presume stage 2+, even though it can slip at stage 1/2 but only when redlining it in 1st before dumping the clutch I find on my 58K S3 (only done this a handful of times though).

Anyhow you should really be running a 5W40 oil when remapped and especially if at stage 2+ or above, viscosity etc. comes into it but the two recommended oils are Millers Nanodrive 5W40 or Motul 300V 5W40.
Click to expand...

I only had a bog standard stage 1 map and never do drag starts either. I guess it's just pot luck with these things... the map is still off for now but will go back on soon.
I think I'll take your advice and move to a slightly thicker oil.
 
S3 Ste said:
I only had a bog standard stage 1 map and never do drag starts either. I guess it's just pot luck with these things... the map is still off for now but will go back on soon.
I think I'll take your advice and move to a slightly thicker oil.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's down to just luck as you say with the clutch and how it's been treated throughout it's life. 60-80K seems to be the normal time for the stock clutch to begin to slip, especially if the cars been remapped to stage 1/2 and instantly on stage 2+.

It depends how hard you drive it but as soon as the oil has warmed up and you're giving it some, then your engine will definitely benefit from a thicker grade oil, even at stock.

A month or so ago I was still concerned with my engine even after changing the cam chain & tensioner, despite already knowing that the 2L TFSI sound very tappety/diesely, so for a piece of mind I went to Storm Developments who are a great bunch of whom confirmed that everything is fine. They had a thorough listen and said that it is a healthy sounding TFSI funnily enough, it's the high pressure direct injectors that make all the racket.
 
HHS3 said:
Yeah it's down to just luck as you say with the clutch and how it's been treated throughout it's life. 60-80K seems to be the normal time for the stock clutch to begin to slip, especially if the cars been remapped to stage 1/2 and instantly on stage 2+.

It depends how hard you drive it but as soon as the oil has warmed up and you're giving it some, then your engine will definitely benefit from a thicker grade oil, even at stock.

A month or so ago I was still concerned with my engine even after changing the cam chain & tensioner, despite already knowing that the 2L TFSI sound very tappety/diesely, so for a piece of mind I went to Storm Developments who are a great bunch of whom confirmed that everything is fine. They had a thorough listen and said that it is a healthy sounding TFSI funnily enough, it's the high pressure direct injectors that make all the racket.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, I feel less worried now :) The engine does sound a bit like a tractor though
 
S3 Ste said:
Thanks for the info, I feel less worried now :) The engine does sound a bit like a tractor though
Click to expand...

No worries mate and as you've already had a garage investigate it as well as a scan then I'm sure it's fine otherwise they'd have picked something up.

Very true haha, it's the only thing I dislike on this fine piece of engineering.
 
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I have some developments on the car.

It turns out that the noise I was hearing was crankshaft play (crankshaft end float), meaning I've had to buy a new engine.

It may be purely coincidental, but the story is:
I had a stage 1 remap put on the car at the start of this year. Clutch started to slip, so removed the map and had the clutch replaced with a Sachs organic performance clutch and OEM LUK flywheel. The car was then driven like a baby while running the new clutch in; in the meantime these noises appeared. I now have a new engine sat in the garage but not yet fitted, and I'm debating whether to put the Sachs clutch back on (only done 3000 miles) or play safe and replace with a standard LUK one (the reason being that there is less pressure applied by the pressure plate to the crankshaft thrust washers). It has been suggested that the initial cause for the damage was a failing oil pump (but pressure not low enough to show a fault code), and one mechanic blamed the torque of the remap. What bugs me is that I was only stage 1, and many people are running the same Sachs clutch / flywheel setup with stage 1 / stage 2 maps without issue.

Do you guys think I should revert back to a LUK clutch and play it safe or just put the existing Sachs back on?

Cheers
 
Id probably play it safe and go with the oem luk-should be able to cope with stage 1. Another engine on top of this one wont be cheap.
 
kash_v said:
Id probably play it safe and go with the oem luk-should be able to cope with stage 1. Another engine on top of this one wont be cheap.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think I'll revert back to the LUK for now ; managed to get a good price for it. I'm still not sure what caused the engine failure though; if it were a failing oil pump then the extra clutch pressure must have exaggerated the issue. otherwise it must have been a combination of the map (was only mapped for few weeks) and the clutch and I was just very unlucky.
 
There was another on here exact same situation. Fitted the same sachs clutch/pressure plate...bottom end went.

So I think it could be down to mileage of the car + the whole push to start function doesnt help.
 
Standard LUK clutch it is then... I doubt I'll be risking putting the map back on either. Yeah with the clutch depressed I assume the thing must be starved of oil flow for a short amount of time at startup. I wonder if it has anything to do with the age of the car and later engine revisions aren't as susceptible to this issue.
 
What mileage are you on?


Also you can get a clutch bypass from @george_seamons i have it on mine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HHS3
Yeah, start it without pressing clutch.

Im having doubts myself now when i map mine, may just tell Rtech to map it within the tolerance of the oem clutch. Rather have less power then pay out for a new engine :/
 
It's a tricky one. I thought long and hard about mapping mine but did my research and decided to go for it. it was an expensive mistake but like I say it could have been down to a poor oil pump which started the problems. I'll be keeping my car standard from hear on though. I don't think the LUK clutch is man enough to take a stage 1 remap for a decent length of time unless it is very progressive.

I'm still bugged as to the actual cause of the issue. If it was the remap alone them surely people with 340 bhp etc would have same issues.
 
Clutch to start bypass harness is well worth fitting. Can only help not having to press the clutch when the engine has no lubrication. For the money it's a very worthwhile bit of preventative maintenance
 
  • Like
Reactions: HHS3 and kash_v
@S3 Ste depends on how its mapped/how you drive it after. I know or 2 s3 8ps on stage 1 with oem clutch and atm are fine.

Im not a huge fan of plug and play maps, someone like Nikki at Rtech or Unicorn will listen to your requests and tone down the torque.
 
OK thanks, I'll look into it. Rather the starter motor goes than the crankshaft.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kash_v
kash_v said:
@S3 Ste depends on how its mapped/how you drive it after. I know or 2 s3 8ps on stage 1 with oem clutch and atm are fine.

Im not a huge fan of plug and play maps, someone like Nikki at Rtech or Unicorn will listen to your requests and tone down the torque.
Click to expand...

My car only lasted a couple weeks with the stage one remap, but like you say it was a bog standard plug and play thing. I didn't really push it hard either , it's just the torque delivery was too sharp around the 4k mark. it's a shame really because I enjoyed the extra power and I don't rag around everywhere. With stock clutch especially I think its just the luck of the draw on how long it lasts with the extra peak torque.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kash_v
Luck does come into it too mate, sh1t when it happens to you - i know how it feels.
 
S3 Ste said:
It turns out that the noise I was hearing was crankshaft play (crankshaft end float), meaning I've had to buy a new engine.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear of your bad news mate, that is some sh1t luck you've had there! Hopefully that is the end of it all though.

george_seamons said:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152330042921

Have a look at that, see if it's something you'd be interested in. If you buy direct rather than going through eBay, they are £23 posted in the UK, or £30 internationally.
Click to expand...

Looks good, I'm skint after holiday but will be making a purchase next payday so that this can get fitted along with my Spec 2+ Clutch next year.
 
HHS3 said:
Sorry to hear of your bad news mate, that is some sh1t luck you've had there! Hopefully that is the end of it all though
Click to expand...
Thanks mate, I hope so too :tongueclosed: I guess I'll be keeping the car a long time now since it has a brand new engine, clutch, and the gearbox has been stripped and inspected. I'm getting a clutch bypass from George too :sunglasses:
 
  • Like
Reactions: HHS3


Rather concerning video of the results of thrust washer failure. Prevention is better than cure (or a new engine in this case!)
 
S3 Ste said:
Thanks mate, I hope so too :tongueclosed: I guess I'll be keeping the car a long time now since it has a brand new engine, clutch, and the gearbox has been stripped and inspected. I'm getting a clutch bypass from George too :sunglasses:
Click to expand...

Hi mate (or anyone there), sad to see your story with the oil line.
do we know that what kind of oil pump failure caused the wearing of (the crankshafts bearings or washers?)? the chain? sprocket? tensioner? the pickup failure or the pump itself? (im not sure that the torque doing it itself)
I also had the same noise (twice in the last 3 months) but only when the car stay 2 or more days in place in the cold (but not always doin that.)

I also on stage 1 (but remapped not pnp) and planned to change the mentioned things around the oil line and the crankshaft...and maybe disable the balance shaft or just swap it to a newer one.
I guess oil pressure tests would be helpful (also i dont understand why there are no oil pressure and temp sensors in it)

Otherwise, those drum/knock noises developed to somewhere from in last stage of failure? (i mean you hear that every start and not just in cold etc)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
Clicking noise on cold start
Replies
2
Views
989
con90
C
D
Serious knocking noise on S3
Replies
2
Views
1K
VRStu
VRStu
K
knocking noise on the steering
Replies
1
Views
1K
Boyakasha
B
R
knocking/ Clunking on start up.
Replies
0
Views
872
Royceyy
R
V
Knocking sound on cold start Audi a3 8p 1.4 tfsi 125hp
Replies
8
Views
923
dave_beastttt
dave_beastttt
Top
Back