DavidR
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[ QUOTE ]
Some early 3.4's are probably due a rebuild anyway
996's before 2000 suffer from intermediate shaft failure. RMS failure has probably not been cured on the latest cars
[/ QUOTE ]
This is probbably true of the higher mileage examples. I've heard that between 100 and 150k miles is about average.
The problem with the 996 rebuild is cost as the 996 engine is less modular than earlier ones. On the air cooled cars a top end (usually to replace worn valve stem seals) would cost about £3-4k whereas the 996 failures seem to be happening in the cylinder bores. Autofarm are doing replacement cylinder liners, but the cost is £5k plus... Not good
It's interesting to note that Porsche have started replacing the watercooled engines when they fail whereas with the 993 they would prefer rebuilds.
I know that I'd sleep a lot happier at night with an air cooled 3.6 cf a water cooled 3.4... and that's before talk of RMS and intermediate shaft failures.
It's a shame, but the 996 has been built to a budget that was perhaps a little mean. It (along with the Boxster) has saved Porsche but has made the 996 (in anyones eyes a great car) into something rather worrying to own and run.
I think that the low 3.4 996 prices reflect this lack of confidence in the cars and are combined with the fact that the 3.6 996 is a far better car and for the money a 993 offers (IMO) a lot more.
I remember being at the bottom of several bottles of red one night in my kitchen arguing with Glen about the dissapointment that was the 996 (having at that point only driven the early 3.4 cars) - I stand corrected now having tried several facelfit 996s - they are significantly better machines!
Some early 3.4's are probably due a rebuild anyway
996's before 2000 suffer from intermediate shaft failure. RMS failure has probably not been cured on the latest cars
[/ QUOTE ]
This is probbably true of the higher mileage examples. I've heard that between 100 and 150k miles is about average.
The problem with the 996 rebuild is cost as the 996 engine is less modular than earlier ones. On the air cooled cars a top end (usually to replace worn valve stem seals) would cost about £3-4k whereas the 996 failures seem to be happening in the cylinder bores. Autofarm are doing replacement cylinder liners, but the cost is £5k plus... Not good
It's interesting to note that Porsche have started replacing the watercooled engines when they fail whereas with the 993 they would prefer rebuilds.
I know that I'd sleep a lot happier at night with an air cooled 3.6 cf a water cooled 3.4... and that's before talk of RMS and intermediate shaft failures.
It's a shame, but the 996 has been built to a budget that was perhaps a little mean. It (along with the Boxster) has saved Porsche but has made the 996 (in anyones eyes a great car) into something rather worrying to own and run.
I think that the low 3.4 996 prices reflect this lack of confidence in the cars and are combined with the fact that the 3.6 996 is a far better car and for the money a 993 offers (IMO) a lot more.
I remember being at the bottom of several bottles of red one night in my kitchen arguing with Glen about the dissapointment that was the 996 (having at that point only driven the early 3.4 cars) - I stand corrected now having tried several facelfit 996s - they are significantly better machines!
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If mine went out of warranty i'd go the Autofarm route and probably go oversized 3.8 to see a bit of an upgrade for the money.
My 996 3.6 was a OPC rebuild which didn't give me the greatest confidence TBH, but like i posted earlier I never found out what went - supposedly a 'Oil separator between the the two banks'? ever heard of this fault before? David, Glen?
Whole engine was hydro locked with oil.
My 996 3.6 was a OPC rebuild which didn't give me the greatest confidence TBH, but like i posted earlier I never found out what went - supposedly a 'Oil separator between the the two banks'? ever heard of this fault before? David, Glen?
Whole engine was hydro locked with oil.
DavidR
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Nervus - not heard of that specifically, but it doesn't sound good!
I would not want to run a 996 without a Porsche warranty for fear of a new engine being required. It's only in the last year or so that the real high mileage cars are being seen, so it figures that we'll likely see more failures and get a better guage on where the rebuild work is required.
There have been too many stories of broken watercooled engines for comfort... Glen mentioned the high mileage boxster above - it's worth remembering that the car in question had a full engine rebuild at 20,000 miles.
The autofarm option looks good, especially with rebore to 3.8 for a 3.4 or 4.0 for the 3.6.. I would still be concerned that there are potential failure waiting to happen on these engines though.
Look at the 964. This was a "new" engine design and it took the life of the 964 and 993 to fully appreciate the problems. The 993 engine is a revised 964 with knowledge of failures. It would not be unusual to see a repetition of the same scenario with the 3.4 engine...
I would not want to run a 996 without a Porsche warranty for fear of a new engine being required. It's only in the last year or so that the real high mileage cars are being seen, so it figures that we'll likely see more failures and get a better guage on where the rebuild work is required.
There have been too many stories of broken watercooled engines for comfort... Glen mentioned the high mileage boxster above - it's worth remembering that the car in question had a full engine rebuild at 20,000 miles.
The autofarm option looks good, especially with rebore to 3.8 for a 3.4 or 4.0 for the 3.6.. I would still be concerned that there are potential failure waiting to happen on these engines though.
Look at the 964. This was a "new" engine design and it took the life of the 964 and 993 to fully appreciate the problems. The 993 engine is a revised 964 with knowledge of failures. It would not be unusual to see a repetition of the same scenario with the 3.4 engine...
DavidR
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So, in summary (in my view anyhow) you have 2 choices...
A well maintained 993 or a facelift 3.6 996.
The problem is that the 993 costs 25-30k whereas the 996 is more like 35-45k
Damn budgets...
The 993 is more the "enthusiasts" car - in the sense that it's older, will require attention, TLC and time. The 996 is much more modern and under the umbrella of the local OPC is the kind of car that anyone could own without the need to get their hands dirty...
Still undecided? Me too...
A well maintained 993 or a facelift 3.6 996.
The problem is that the 993 costs 25-30k whereas the 996 is more like 35-45k
Damn budgets...
The 993 is more the "enthusiasts" car - in the sense that it's older, will require attention, TLC and time. The 996 is much more modern and under the umbrella of the local OPC is the kind of car that anyone could own without the need to get their hands dirty...
Still undecided? Me too...
[ QUOTE ]
Glen (who started the thread),
Are you any closer to a 993 yet?
Very interesting. Doesn't everyone now want a porsche? I know I do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Extremely.... I've learnt a lot about both 993 and 996's on this thread.
Glen and DavidR both show a wealth of knowledge for these motors. Thanks guys for sharing it with us. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
The 993 has definitely won a lot more praise than the s3 here.
I've test driven a 1996 (varioram) 993, and was actually abit nervous in the drivers seat, mainly because the pedals felt slightly alien pivoting from the floor.
However, traits like that can be familiarised with time, and I can't deny that the old 993 oozes so much character.
It's now a matter of finding the right car. Though summer has bumped prices up abit. Going to wait till the winter to source my porsche.
Glen (who started the thread),
Are you any closer to a 993 yet?
Very interesting. Doesn't everyone now want a porsche? I know I do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Extremely.... I've learnt a lot about both 993 and 996's on this thread.
Glen and DavidR both show a wealth of knowledge for these motors. Thanks guys for sharing it with us. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
The 993 has definitely won a lot more praise than the s3 here.
I've test driven a 1996 (varioram) 993, and was actually abit nervous in the drivers seat, mainly because the pedals felt slightly alien pivoting from the floor.
However, traits like that can be familiarised with time, and I can't deny that the old 993 oozes so much character.
It's now a matter of finding the right car. Though summer has bumped prices up abit. Going to wait till the winter to source my porsche.
In terms of decent cars, there's not actually a lot out there and there hasn't been for a while. What is there is 'trying' to fetch premium money - some of which is simply not attainable IMO unless you are a serious collector.. Another factor is these cars (993's) don't 'book' in Glasses etc anymore and the prices are hard to work out.
Someone who's in the trade is giving me some info on a 1996 C2 tomorrow from their friend - it will be interesting to see what condition/price this one is. I've been searching now for nearly 6 months and still the right one hasn't appeared (unless I suddenly change my preference and like Tiptronics/Cabs/Savannah leather!)
On another note, I notice that a 1996 993 Turbo in guards red with 80k miles went for 32k on Ebay today despite not being sold on Pistonheads for months.. Brave buyer!
Someone who's in the trade is giving me some info on a 1996 C2 tomorrow from their friend - it will be interesting to see what condition/price this one is. I've been searching now for nearly 6 months and still the right one hasn't appeared (unless I suddenly change my preference and like Tiptronics/Cabs/Savannah leather!)
On another note, I notice that a 1996 993 Turbo in guards red with 80k miles went for 32k on Ebay today despite not being sold on Pistonheads for months.. Brave buyer!
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Glen (who started the thread),
Are you any closer to a 993 yet?
Very interesting. Doesn't everyone now want a porsche? I know I do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Extremely.... I've learnt a lot about both 993 and 996's on this thread.
Glen and DavidR both show a wealth of knowledge for these motors. Thanks guys for sharing it with us. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
The 993 has definitely won a lot more praise than the s3 here.
I've test driven a 1996 (varioram) 993, and was actually abit nervous in the drivers seat, mainly because the pedals felt slightly alien pivoting from the floor.
However, traits like that can be familiarised with time, and I can't deny that the old 993 oozes so much character.
It's now a matter of finding the right car. Though summer has bumped prices up abit. Going to wait till the winter to source my porsche.
[/ QUOTE ]
Start looking now, I think you'll find that most cars have increased in price now including your trade in. Its not just a seasonal thing its just that the market was/is flooded with second hand cars so dealers were offering poor money.
Its funny how dealers cars dont depreciate in their possession. The forecourts must be in suspended animation.
[ QUOTE ]
Glen (who started the thread),
Are you any closer to a 993 yet?
Very interesting. Doesn't everyone now want a porsche? I know I do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Extremely.... I've learnt a lot about both 993 and 996's on this thread.
Glen and DavidR both show a wealth of knowledge for these motors. Thanks guys for sharing it with us. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
The 993 has definitely won a lot more praise than the s3 here.
I've test driven a 1996 (varioram) 993, and was actually abit nervous in the drivers seat, mainly because the pedals felt slightly alien pivoting from the floor.
However, traits like that can be familiarised with time, and I can't deny that the old 993 oozes so much character.
It's now a matter of finding the right car. Though summer has bumped prices up abit. Going to wait till the winter to source my porsche.
[/ QUOTE ]
Start looking now, I think you'll find that most cars have increased in price now including your trade in. Its not just a seasonal thing its just that the market was/is flooded with second hand cars so dealers were offering poor money.
Its funny how dealers cars dont depreciate in their possession. The forecourts must be in suspended animation.
Ess_Three
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[ QUOTE ]
it may be spackatronic.
[/ QUOTE ]
Priceless!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
it may be spackatronic.
[/ QUOTE ]
Priceless!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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