S3 v 993

[ QUOTE ]
the Cerbera V8's just don't work very well! Even TVR dealers with V8's in stock told him not to buy one!

[/ QUOTE ]

Like all TVRs then?

They are a hobby...they do odd things at odd times...and that's just the getting in / out and basic running part...

Not for me...I would get too frustrated when it was broken.
 
[ QUOTE ]

The biggest problem seems to be you've not got much chance of getting one that is actually producing the stated power output from the factory


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say you have more chance of walking accross the Atlantic in flip-flops!


[ QUOTE ]

but it's not expensive to have them tuned to be there abouts then you have a SERIOUSLY quick car that ja. Anyhow that's getting a bit too off topic and I'm still talking myself into saying /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gif it and buying a TVR this summer and having a very large grin until something breaks!

[/ QUOTE ]

Very quick...
Very quick at going sidewards...very quick at leaving the road into one of many inviting fields...very quick at breaking down...very quick at depreciating...and utterly pointless in wet weather....you are either spinning up the rear, or locking up the front.

A proper hairy ***** mans car all right...just not for me!
I'll stick to the back, sack and crack waxed efficiency of zee Germans!

Great thrill per ££...but little finesse.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the Cerbera V8's just don't work very well! Even TVR dealers with V8's in stock told him not to buy one!

[/ QUOTE ]

Like all TVRs then?

They are a hobby...they do odd things at odd times...and that's just the getting in / out and basic running part...

Not for me...I would get too frustrated when it was broken.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know this really isn't the place, but I know a lot of owners, quite a few of which use there Rover V8 / AJP V8 cars everyday as there only car, and over the last 2 / 3years they have been without there cars for less time than me with less expensive faults to fix! And they use them all year round, it would appear the more they are used the better they are too!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Very quick...
Very quick at going sidewards...very quick at leaving the road into one of many inviting fields...very quick at breaking down...very quick at depreciating...and utterly pointless in wet weather....you are either spinning up the rear, or locking up the front.

A proper hairy ***** mans car all right...just not for me!
I'll stick to the back, sack and crack waxed efficiency of zee Germans!

Great thrill per ££...but little finesse.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a friend with a corvette engined Chimera that has 405 BHP and weights not a lot, I was rather apprehensive the other weekend when we popped down to goodwood and it started pi/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gifing with rain - very powerful TVR and rain not normally a good choice, but not only Jon, but the other guys we went with (4.2 Cerbie and Griff 500 with race cams) all made it back home in one piece and that was not driving slowly!

I agree that for most the TVRs are just not "safe" enough for the general public but they DO NOT deserve quite a lot of the reputation they have got and if you like driving they can be some of the best cars in the world! I personally like the fact the are about as un PC as they come and there is nothing between the driver and the experience - the same reason I like the elise / VX220.

With regards to depretiation my friends with well looked after Griffs would have lost no money over the last 2-3years and some have gone up in value so not as bad as you might think, the Tuscan on the other hand is a bit different!
 
Try trading in a TVR for anything from a main dealer and they will simply just refuse to offer you anything.

Flip paint, bike exhausts, zz-top lights, free medalion with every purchase. They are just factory produced Kit-cars - Rubbish!

I would much prefer and Exige or similar, at least you will hold more value in it.
 
I know yo've championed the TVR cause before Ben, and I love them. I think they're brilliantly loud, look great and are English. But... I'd never want to own one.

The Griff engine seems to be fairly reliable, but the AJPV8 does have a rep, and from what i've heard from owners and TVR dealers it's justified!
I don't think depreciation would be too much of an issue as long as you buy right and look after it, they've already lost most of their value anyway.

I love the Corvette engined Chimera though, brilliant thing. Now that in a Cerbera would be fantastic (for my mate to buy, not me!).
 
audi upgrades
Nervus OK, fair enough you don't like TVRs however I imagine you'd have the same problem with any low volume car maker eg Noble etc. coming trade in time, I don't think trading the car in at your local porsche or audi garage should be a reason for not liking them. I'm sure if it was looked after a private sale would be no problem at all and I'm also sure a TVR dealer would take it off you.

Again - hold more value in a exige - no you won't if you buy the right one, I guess you're talking about the Tuscan which is probably the worst of the lot and even that should get better now you can sort the SP6 engine problems and I still don't think they depretiate that badly, infact after having a quick look a tuscan seems to hold is value better than a 911 in percentage terms so what the /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gif are you talking about?

Rob I know I'm clearly the only one around that is willing to buy one given the right situation.I did think the same about the AJP V8 as it is a race design however I've heard lots of good things from people that have been living with them for a long time. As we're in a discussion about 911s I've heard very nasty (and equally if not more expensive) problems about 993s and 996s engines going bang.
 
[ QUOTE ]
the Tuscan on the other hand is a bit different!

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the beast that almost bankrupted a mate of mine.
Awful, but fast, car.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Try trading in a TVR for anything from a main dealer and they will simply just refuse to offer you anything.


[/ QUOTE ]
Mate had to trade his in to Subaro for a pig ugly STI as they were the only people who would offer him anything for it...BMW and Porsche just laughed and told him to go away...

Even Subaru had him bent over, trousers round his ankles, to deliver theit offer!
 
audi upgrades
[ QUOTE ]
. As we're in a discussion about 911s I've heard very nasty (and equally if not more expensive) problems about 993s and 996s engines going bang.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never heard of a 993 engine going bang.

I've heard of 996 engines leaking (weeping) oil from the RMS...but of all the owners I know, i've never actually met one.

I know 2 TVR owners very well...one has had problems with his Cerbera...the other had his Tuscan engine rebuilt 3 times at TVR power...then got rid (for the aforementioned Subaru) because it still wasn't right...

So that's 12+ friends with 993s...no problems.
6-8 M96 engined Boxster/996 drivers...no problems.
2 TVR drivers...both problems. 1 terminal.

I can only go on people I know well, drink with, go on drives with...etc.

Doesn't look good does it?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't he sell it privately or sell it to a TVR dealer they sell very fast if it's a looked after example and for good money?

[/ QUOTE ]

TVR dealer was 100s on miles away and was only interested in dealing for another TVR...not to buy.

He wanted something with at least 2+2 capability due to a new family...

He made several discrete enquiries about selling private, but having his pants taken down at every turn, he was somewhat ashamed at what it was worth vs what he'd paid for it...so chose the cowardly route of trading in to save face!

Can't say I blame him.

It's a shame...he's had two TVRs and his brother has one...and his dad.

They go well, are fast...look great...but in the north of Scotland are as practical as the proverbial chocolate fireguard.

Fair play for getting one in the first instance though...he's braver than me!
 
Nope I agree from that selection it doesn't, however my outlook is very different.

If I buy one I'd be allowing for the engine to go bang however it shouldn't need doing more than once if done right and looked after, even on the SP6! like I said my car has cost me a lot more in repairs than pretty much all the TVR owners I know over the same time period (but I appritiate mine probably isn't a "normal" Audi experience and they mostly have 2nd cars) and that makes a big difference to the way I see things now.

I think they can't be beaten for the experience and that's why I would put up with the problems if they came up.

PS... I wasn't really comparing Porsche to TVR in the same way as I don't know that many people well enough with 911s but have heard bad stories.
 
[ QUOTE ]


I think they can't be beaten for the experience and that's why I would put up with the problems if they came up.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's the attitude to have..
TVRs ARE a hobby! You accept that they do odd things...and that it's all part of the ownership experience.

As long as people know that, then there should be no conflict. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
 
I say follow your dream cause you'll regret not doing it later in life.Hence i will have a 911 turbo and nsx at some point.
 
The problem I have Ryan is there is lots of cars I would like to own but only have space / money to have one!

NSX, S2000, Elise, TVR (Cerb, T350, Sagaris), 911, viper / corvette, big power skyline / Supra are all seriously on the list and I hope to get one this summer just not sure which, brain says S2000 is the best choice with a supercharger to follow when I know the car.

Oh how much fun I would have if those ****** numbers would just come up!
 
I wouldn't buy a TVR purely because of the rest of the trades attitudes towards them. I dont like the idea of being stuck with a TVR for the rest of my life or giving one away to get out of it.

I have seen many advertised at good money still c.f. what the new cost was, but they never sell. A car is only worth what you can get for it at a dealer and walk away or sell privately in less than a month.

It doesn't seem to be so much a problem for older cars as they all plumit to about £16k and sit there for a while until the model becomes as desirable as the Tasmin 350i then they fall again.

I have a mate who absolutely loves them too, but he's yet to put his money where his mouth is as he knows in his heart of hearts that he'll end up with his pants taken down.
 
Heres an example 9 months old and a lose of £13k ouch /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif TVR T350
 
That is a nasty one, but I'd say you could loose similar money on many other 40k+ cars just as easily. The advert next to that one is still worth around 60% of it's initial value after 3 years so I guess it all depends and how you see depretiation and how long you're planning on keeping your car.

Approved cars seem pretty good to me... I for one will own a TVR at some point in my life and I won't have any regrets (and I doubt it'll be as expensive to own as my S3) can all you people that keep going on about the costs involved say the same? Trying to compare these cars in this way doesn't make sense to me, they are about soul / passion and the experience is worth far more than any money you may or may not loose in my opinion! The same goes for Ferrari and Aston Martin in my book again both of which I hope to be able to own at some point in my life.

Anyhow lets get back to the topic, go out buy a 993 and enjoy it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yes.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]

Trying to compare these cars in this way doesn't make sense to me, they are about soul / passion and the experience is worth far more than any money you may or may not loose in my opinion!


[/ QUOTE ]

That's true...

I think there is an element of precticality involved for most though...I could handle a car breaking down and throwing a wobbler every now and then if there was a dealer close by that could take car of it.

That way, you know it'll be repaired swiftly when/if it goes wrong.

My problem with TVR in this respect is that its 130+ miles to the nearest dealer..with a car that doesn't go.
Not ideal...
Flatbed time...

Same for Ferrari...no dealer closer than 130+ miles away.

If I'm going to spend £50k+ on a car, I expect to be able to storm into the dealer and get some answers...
This would be a big factor in my choice if looking at Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin, TVR etc...

That's just me though...

I could handle the breakdowns if I excepted that it's part of ownership...but the distance and lack of face to face dialogue would be difficult.

As it is, I drop into the local OPC weekly for a chat and a coffee...
 
[ QUOTE ]
Heres an example 9 months old and a lose of £13k ouch /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif TVR T350

[/ QUOTE ]

But it IS a lot of car for the money.

Bearing in mind it a 9 month old car, for the same sort of money as a very nice 10 year old 993!

I can see the attraction...especially one still under warranty...if you have a good dealer nearby.
 
Yep I agree Glen - move out of the sticks! But then you get other problems (traffic and crap roads), I have 2 Ferrari garages within 20 miles, TVR, Aston and at least a few Porsche garages so it's not such a problem for me however I'm not kidding myself I can afford any of them yet but time will tell.

I'm also sure you would not like to talk about the ammount of money you have "lost" since parting with all that hard earned cash, but equally you have the experience of owning a car you've always wanted and as an added bonus it's your car and you had the pleasure of driving it out of the dealers knowing it hadn't been driven hardly at all.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Yep I agree Glen - move out of the sticks!


[/ QUOTE ]

Nah...it's God's country up here...nowhere like it!

David and I drove to Aviemore for lunch a few weeks ago...on some of the best roads I've ever seen...and all within an hour or so of home.


[ QUOTE ]

But then you get other problems (traffic and crap roads),

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the roads aren't perfect around here...
Traffic isn't so much of an issue, especially as I don't have to drive to work.
 
[ QUOTE ]

David and I drove to Aviemore for lunch a few weeks ago...on some of the best roads I've ever seen...and all within an hour or so of home.


[/ QUOTE ]


I know it's out of your way, but if you head up there again, try the South Deeside to Ballater, Balmoral to Corgarf, then on through the Lecht and Tomintoul - loads of fun.
 
[ QUOTE ]

I know it's out of your way, but if you head up there again, try the South Deeside to Ballater, Balmoral to Corgarf, then on through the Lecht and Tomintoul - loads of fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's one of our favourite routes..
All round there...Aberlour, Dufftown, sometimes back to Dundee via Glenshee.

Great roads.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Out of interest, 993 or S3 on those sort of roads?

[/ QUOTE ]

Although the S3 is very quick out of tight corners...with all it's low down torque...

On roads like that...993.
No contest.
 
audi upgrades
Glen, What are the main problems with the early 3.4 996's as they seem to be going awfully cheap?
Also did they make the c4s with 2 different amounts of power?350/316?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Glen, What are the main problems with the early 3.4 996's as they seem to be going awfully cheap?
Also did they make the c4s with 2 different amounts of power?350/316?

[/ QUOTE ]

They just go cheap.

The 3.4s didn't sound too good, were nasty inside and were a bit...bland. Bland for a 911 that is.

Later cars had better interiors, more power and looked better.

The higher power Carreras were factory power kitted...X50 I think. Approx 25 BHP more at the top end.
 
Theres a 98 996 3.4 c2 70k miles for £23k at a garage 4 miles from my house.Was reading some back dated evo mags and they gave it 5 stars!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Theres a 98 996 3.4 c2 70k miles for £23k at a garage 4 miles from my house.Was reading some back dated evo mags and they gave it 5 stars!

[/ QUOTE ]

If it's a decent colour, that's a bargain!!

Come to think of it...it's a bargain regardless!
 
****** hell that is a good price. If you buy it make sure you check it out well though! If it passes the 111 point inspection, you're able to buy a full Porsche warranty which I'd strongly encourage.

There are reports that some early 3.4 engines are developing 'oval' cylinder liners which Porsche are basically washing their hands over. Just how many though is unknown but it is starting to attract negative interest along with the well-known RMS oil leak issue on the internet forums (which I know can be a problem in their own right!).
 
Some early 3.4's are probably due a rebuild anyway
996's before 2000 suffer from intermediate shaft failure. RMS failure has probably not been cured on the latest cars
 
[ QUOTE ]
Some early 3.4's are probably due a rebuild anyway


[/ QUOTE ]

Why?
They should do well over 100K before needing work...


[ QUOTE ]

996's before 2000 suffer from intermediate shaft failure.


[/ QUOTE ]

Some do.
Not all..
That's a sweeping generalisation that's also ill informed.


[ QUOTE ]

RMS failure has probably not been cured on the latest cars

[/ QUOTE ]

It hasn't...997s suffer too.
But not all.
I don't know any 996s / Boxsters that have suffered...not personally.
 
[ QUOTE ]


They should do well over 100K before needing work...


[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry I meant cars that had done over 100k, I just figured some owners with high mileage cars may try to stir things up.

[ QUOTE ]

Some do.
Not all..
That's a sweeping generalisation that's also ill informed.


[/ QUOTE ]
Looks like you turned it in to the sweeping generalisation, perhaps you should have added all to the front of my post.
I did not mean they would all suffer from it but when you are buying second hand you never know which one you have.
[ QUOTE ]

It hasn't...997s suffer too.
But not all.
I don't know any 996s / Boxsters that have suffered...not personally.

[/ QUOTE ]
unfortunately RMS failure is probably not an if failure but a when failure.
Porsche have redesigned the seal a few times now.
A slight oil leak from behind the flywheel is no big deal
The problem is if it gets on to the clutch
 
It's silver ,i'm going to have a look at the weekend.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry I meant cars that had done over 100k, I just figured some owners with high mileage cars may try to stir things up.


[/ QUOTE ]

From experience of people i know, if the car is properly serviced there is no reason why it won't do 200K without any fuss.
Of course, it could fail...but so could a new one.
Mileage would be less of an issue for me, as long as the provenance and history was correct.


[ QUOTE ]

Looks like you turned it in to the sweeping generalisation, perhaps you should have added all to the front of my post.
I did not mean they would all suffer from it but when you are buying second hand you never know which one you have.


[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed you don't...
But buying new is no way of ensuring no failure.
Engines fail...but I have never met, or even heard of anyone (other than on web boards) that have had this kind of failure.
So it makes you wonder as to the severity of the problem.
It exists sure...and it shouldn't...but how often?
And would it put you off buying an early 996/Boxster?
I don't think so...



[ QUOTE ]

unfortunately RMS failure is probably not an if failure but a when failure.
Porsche have redesigned the seal a few times now.


[/ QUOTE ]

I believe about 6 times.

The problem does not appear to be the seal soley...but a missalignment of the crank case halves (surely a more serious issue)
There is evidence to suggest the RMS is not at fault at all in many cases...but the seal above.

997s allegedly still leak...although the Techs at my OPC (mates of mine) have never seen a leaking 997...nor as amny 996s as the rumour mill would suggest.


[ QUOTE ]

A slight oil leak from behind the flywheel is no big deal
The problem is if it gets on to the clutch

[/ QUOTE ]

True...
In all fairness, a weeping RMS is very unlikely to cause clutch contamination judging by the amount of oil 'normally' found weeping.
However...

I have not had this problem on my M96 engine in 18 months...
Two good friends with Boxsters (one very high mileage) have not had this problem.
Approx 6-8 other people I know through PCGB with M96 engined cars have never had this problem...

Which makes me think it's perhaps not as widespread as some would suggest.

Of course, if I find a few drops of oil on the garage floor today, I'll revise my opinion.


Oddly, the only Porsche I know of with a known RMS leak, is a 993 C4. And according to the masses they are bulletproof and oil-tight.
Obviously not.
 
My first 996 C4S engine died and I never got a true explanation of what caused it so I just Part-ex'd it.

I drove home, parked up as normal. next morning tried to start and check oil light came on, starter briefly turned - engine did nothing.

Got out and walked around the back to find white water running out of the exhaust pipes.

Engine was rebuild and seemed fine but i wasn't happy with the car after that, it was £65k and had 7k miles showing - but hey it may well never fail again, who knows?

I've now had 9 Porsches including 3 996's and 3 boxsters including the latest S (v.briefly) my dad has had 6 porsches and apart from consumables like brake discs etc that is the only porblem i've had or personally known anyone have.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

I
993 question
Replies
0
Views
610
imported_glen_jai
I
I
S3 v STI v S2000 v Aston
Replies
34
Views
2K
Essflee
E
B
Porsche 993 turbo twist 19"
Replies
4
Views
2K
jojo
jojo
RussUK
Porsche 993 TT Brakes going
Replies
8
Views
2K
Plane
P
M
S3 v R32
Replies
48
Views
4K
jojo
jojo
Top
Back