Slight vibration during deceleration in 2nd and 3rd

[Lehn]

Hi all

So I’m experiencing this slight vibration which I can feel in the car and the steering wheel when off throttle. There is no noise and it’s not that it shakes massively but just enough to know that this is not right - especially since I can feel it in the steering wheel. It’s very occasional which makes it a pita to track down.

It occurs during the below conditions:

1. When coming to a stop at a traffic light I would sometimes feel it when I let off the throttle and brake slightly while the car cycles through the gear, still it’s only in 3rd and 2nd I’ve experienced it. It feels like an uneven surface but I know that is not the case.
   
   
2. When I keep it in 3rd and I accelerate hard from 2.000rpm to 4.000rpm and let off the throttle, without braking, then I can feel the vibration between 3.000rpm and 2.000rom when the rpm drops.

I’ve removed my dogbone insert and the vibration is still there but it seems that it’s not as pronounced as when the insert was mounted (this could be placebo though). This makes me think it has something to do with the dogbone mount or the pendulum arm (more like the rubber bushing in this).

The car is still under warranty but I know that you guys in here tend to know more than the Audi mechanics so it would be beneficial if I could point them in the right direction with your help.

I will try to fit another set of wheels in the weekend just to make sure it’s not that.

What do you guys think? Any suggestions?

 

[RichardT]

I bet the first thing they will suggest is balancing the wheels.

 

[NHN]

Swap front to rear wheels, retest.

Is it a dogbone upgrade, as these do add more stiffness & thus more vibrations so to speak, powerflex I know can do on some cars.

 

[Tbjhnsn]

Hi,

I own an 18 FL S3 (36,000 km) and am also experiencing steering vibrations. The first of your concerns I have attributed to normal behavior - just the way the clutch disengages when coming to a stop.

The second issue however is my main concern. I do not have this problem consistently but notice sometimes after heavy acceleration coming off the throttle (overrun) I have a light but definitely noticeable non-audible vibration in the steering between 2500 to 2000 rpm. Strangely a bit of acceleration or light throttle and the vibration goes away.

found a post on an Australian forums where a user had the same problem, however Audi were unable to diagnose it and attributed to normal behaviour...

Would be interested to know if you ever got to the bottom of this?

 

[Tbjhnsn]

Guy,

may my wits end trying to fix this exact same problem of vibration on deceleration in this specific rev range. It is very hard to reproduce but most commonly appears after gunning it and dropping down in to 3rd and coasting. Sometimes a slight cornering also seems to trigger it. If I manage to hold the exact rev range once it’s starts it will do it indefinitely.

this is extremely difficult to reproduce for the dealer. Does anyone have any ideas where to even start looking? I find it hard to believe that it’s wheel balancing given that it’s rpm specific (sometimes occurs in higher gears)

 

[AlS3BE]

Dual mass flywheel
Just a guess.

 

[Tbjhnsn]

Hmm interesting thought. Definitely hope it’s not related to the DSG. Anyone aware of an easy way to diagnose faulty dual mass flywheels? Something I could perhaps suggest to the dealer?

 

[AlS3BE]

Hmm interesting thought. Definitely hope it’s not related to the DSG. Anyone aware of an easy way to diagnose faulty dual mass flywheels? Something I could perhaps suggest to the dealer?

not sure on a dsg. As far as I know a dsg is just a fancy manual gearbox. It still has a clutch plate that wears out and a flywheel like manual. So I would assume can experience same issues but not sure how the mechanical gubbins go together.
another thing it could be is clutch release bearing but again not sure if a dsg has one.
Definitely sounds like it’s transmission related to me. When was the transmission serviced? These dsg boxes need a service every 38k

 

[Potterswheel]

Does anyone know what the DSG service at 38k involves??

 

[AlS3BE]

Does anyone know what the DSG service at 38k involves??

just an oil change as far as I know. Nothing much more. My understanding is the mechatronics can fail with old/bad oil and the unit is £1k+ on its own depending on the gearbox.
here’s a guide I found.
https://blog.fcpeuro.com/vw/audi-dsg-automatic-transmission-service-diy

 

[Potterswheel]

Ah right, I am planning to do this on my S3 currently at almost 17k, just waiting for the gearbox fill adaptor to arrive.
My current car is my first experience of owning an auto, I do however look after the father in laws Honda Jazz (I know, I know) with a CVT, its recommended gearbox oil change interval is 30k but experience shows (he has had several) that if you leave the oil that long the box exhibits all sorts of strange behavior one of which being vibration and shudders on deceleration, change the fluid and it goes away. Now I know you cannot say the DSG is the same or operates on the same principals but to protect my box and maintain the smooth operation and keep the mechatronic unit clean, I will be changing the fluid very shortly and definitely before it gets anywhere near the 20k mark.
see my post "Vital fluids" on this forum.

 

[AlS3BE]

Ah right, I am planning to do this on my S3 currently at almost 17k, just waiting for the gearbox fill adaptor to arrive.
My current car is my first experience of owning an auto, I do however look after the father in laws Honda Jazz (I know, I know) with a CVT, its recommended gearbox oil change interval is 30k but experience shows (he has had several) that if you leave the oil that long the box exhibits all sorts of strange behavior one of which being vibration and shudders on deceleration, change the fluid and it goes away. Now I know you cannot say the DSG is the same or operates on the same principals but to protect my box and maintain the smooth operation and keep the mechatronic unit clean, I will be changing the fluid very shortly and definitely before it gets anywhere near the 20k mark.
see my post "Vital fluids" on this forum.

prevention is better than cure ​

 

[Tbjhnsn]

not sure on a dsg. As far as I know a dsg is just a fancy manual gearbox. It still has a clutch plate that wears out and a flywheel like manual. So I would assume can experience same issues but not sure how the mechanical gubbins go together.
another thing it could be is clutch release bearing but again not sure if a dsg has one.
Definitely sounds like it’s transmission related to me. When was the transmission serviced? These dsg boxes need a service every 38k

The car only has 25k miles so nowhere near the service interval yet. Driving home today I was playing around in 3rd. Can definitely get the vibration to occur with quite repeatable results on overrun between 3000 and 2000 rpm. I’ll show the dealer when I go for a service next week and see what the outcome is. Honestly expecting them to tell me it’s normal....

 

[Tbjhnsn]

For those interested, I had the engine and DSG mounts replaced under warranty after managing to reproduce the issue. What a difference it has made to the drivability of the car. I still notice small resonance at the rpm that was problematic but it’s nowhere near as bad. The harsh gear shifts that I had along with the rough idle are all but gone now. Didn’t think the mounts would be flogged after 40,000 kms

 

[Peter Peter]

Hi all

So I’m experiencing this slight vibration which I can feel in the car and the steering wheel when off throttle. There is no noise and it’s not that it shakes massively but just enough to know that this is not right - especially since I can feel it in the steering wheel. It’s very occasional which makes it a pita to track down.

It occurs during the below conditions:

1. When coming to a stop at a traffic light I would sometimes feel it when I let off the throttle and brake slightly while the car cycles through the gear, still it’s only in 3rd and 2nd I’ve experienced it. It feels like an uneven surface but I know that is not the case.
   
   
2. When I keep it in 3rd and I accelerate hard from 2.000rpm to 4.000rpm and let off the throttle, without braking, then I can feel the vibration between 3.000rpm and 2.000rom when the rpm drops.

I’ve removed my dogbone insert and the vibration is still there but it seems that it’s not as pronounced as when the insert was mounted (this could be placebo though). This makes me think it has something to do with the dogbone mount or the pendulum arm (more like the rubber bushing in this).

The car is still under warranty but I know that you guys in here tend to know more than the Audi mechanics so it would be beneficial if I could point them in the right direction with your help.

I will try to fit another set of wheels in the weekend just to make sure it’s not that.

What do you guys think? Any suggestions?

I don't want to scare you but this can be transmission or clutch, it won't be wheels as vibration from the wheels you would only register if you go fast like above 75mph..
You don't feel wheels vibration if speed is low.. I defo would go to audi and tell them about this ..
The sooner - better

 

[Peter Peter]

Does anyone know what the DSG service at 38k involves??

Nothing just transmission fluid replacement.. I did it just in case .. 7 litres or 7,5L
But if he has car in warranty so car is new-ish dsg fluid is like new... in 25k miles..
I purchased car 47k miles and I replaced fluid ...

 

[Peter Peter]

Ah right, I am planning to do this on my S3 currently at almost 17k, just waiting for the gearbox fill adaptor to arrive.
My current car is my first experience of owning an auto, I do however look after the father in laws Honda Jazz (I know, I know) with a CVT, its recommended gearbox oil change interval is 30k but experience shows (he has had several) that if you leave the oil that long the box exhibits all sorts of strange behavior one of which being vibration and shudders on deceleration, change the fluid and it goes away. Now I know you cannot say the DSG is the same or operates on the same principals but to protect my box and maintain the smooth operation and keep the mechatronic unit clean, I will be changing the fluid very shortly and definitely before it gets anywhere near the 20k mark.
see my post "Vital fluids" on this forum.

Ooh too too early transmission fluid replacement at 17k .. that's still gold man See you you looking after so assuming you don't go crazy racing with that S3 so you don't even overheat DSG or doing launch controls all the time ... no need changing ... After 30k or even 40k if you driving economicaly

 

[Peter Peter]

For those interested, I had the engine and DSG mounts replaced under warranty after managing to reproduce the issue. What a difference it has made to the drivability of the car. I still notice small resonance at the rpm that was problematic but it’s nowhere near as bad. The harsh gear shifts that I had along with the rough idle are all but gone now. Didn’t think the mounts would be flogged after 40,000 kms

if something needed to be fixed it will not be the same again..
And car's dealers to calm ppl .. ''it's fiiiine, it is normal behaviour'' yeah RIGHT...

 

[Tbjhnsn]

if something needed to be fixed it will not be the same again..
And car's dealers to calm ppl .. ''it's fiiiine, it is normal behaviour'' yeah RIGHT...

Hey man,
What are you on about? They acknowledged the issue and replaced the faulty parts. So far the issue seems to have been resolved. I’m not a fan on the dealer in most cases either but can’t complain this time around. Btw they make money from warranty claims so typically are more than happy to fix an issue if it needs fixing

 

[Potterswheel]

So after changing my DSG fluid at 17k I took it out for a run today, the difference was absolutely amazing, smooth control at low speeds quiet and silky at speed, the car is transformed. To be honest I am not surprised I have seen this on other makes with auto boxes but was waiting to see if it worked on the DSG
I am a happy bunny and as I intend to keep this one hopeful about the future.
DSG capacity dry change 5lt wet change 4.6lt
p.s. see my post vital fluids.

 

[Peter Peter]

So after changing my DSG fluid at 17k I took it out for a run today, the difference was absolutely amazing, smooth control at low speeds quiet and silky at speed, the car is transformed. To be honest I am not surprised I have seen this on other makes with auto boxes but was waiting to see if it worked on the DSG
I am a happy bunny and as I intend to keep this one hopeful about the future.
DSG capacity dry change 5lt wet change 4.6lt
p.s. see my post vital fluids.

I felt same after change ant after week or two it went back to normal as b4..

 

[Tbjhnsn]

Still trying to track down this issue of steering vibration and poor jerky DSG shifts sometimes. I’ve definitely got in my head that I’m seeing early signed of a DMF failure and won’t be convinced until I drive another vehicle.

Since my first post I had the DSG tuned with TVS which has been great for drivability and makes the car a whole lot better to drive.

I still have the strange steering vibration in that specific rpm range and have noticed a slightly louder than normal ticking noise coming from the DSG side of the engine during idle in D. The noise is nothing as loud as I’ve seen on most DMF failures but there’s definitely something there. One the idle rpms increase, for instance in S mode the noise disappears or perhaps is just drowned by the engine.

I was getting bad clutch judder on the stock DSG software before I went for the tune. This was because the stock dq381 held the gears much lower in the rpm. This was obviously stressing the clutches and was not something I had initially noticed owning the car. Perhaps this may have been a partial cause and/or another symptom of the failing DMF.

Anyhow I’m going to get the DSG fluid changes out soon and have an independent take another look at it. In the meantime I’m going to rent an S3 for a day just so I can compare the behaviours for the sake of my own sanity.

 

[Santisilver]

Still trying to track down this issue of steering vibration and poor jerky DSG shifts sometimes. I’ve definitely got in my head that I’m seeing early signed of a DMF failure and won’t be convinced until I drive another vehicle.

Since my first post I had the DSG tuned with TVS which has been great for drivability and makes the car a whole lot better to drive.

I still have the strange steering vibration in that specific rpm range and have noticed a slightly louder than normal ticking noise coming from the DSG side of the engine during idle in D. The noise is nothing as loud as I’ve seen on most DMF failures but there’s definitely something there. One the idle rpms increase, for instance in S mode the noise disappears or perhaps is just drowned by the engine.

I was getting bad clutch judder on the stock DSG software before I went for the tune. This was because the stock dq381 held the gears much lower in the rpm. This was obviously stressing the clutches and was not something I had initially noticed owning the car. Perhaps this may have been a partial cause and/or another symptom of the failing DMF.

Anyhow I’m going to get the DSG fluid changes out soon and have an independent take another look at it. In the meantime I’m going to rent an S3 for a day just so I can compare the behaviours for the sake of my own sanity.

I’ve been tracking your issue in another thread already.
I have kind of similar issues as you do.

My car is a 2018 s3 s tronic. I started to notice this shudder when I accelerate a bit hard and step off the gas pedal at 3000 RPM. (Only in decelerations)
I brought the car to Audi several times and they said that it is a normal behavior related to the AVS (variable camshaft) when the car returns from high rpm to low rpm range. That sounds to me like bullsh…

It is also related that the second to third gear in D shifts a bit harder. This only happens when I start driving in normal conditions. If I add some extra gas (very little) from 0km/h the car shifts from 2nd to 3rd very smooth, as should be.
I also have to say that both things ONLY happen when the car is at service temperature. When it’s cold, no shudder stepping off the pedal and smooth gear from 2nd to 3rd in “granny” mode driving.

The car also shifts smoother in S when cruising and I guess it’s because the gear changes in a higher rpm range from 2nd to 3rd.

Based on the first post I read from you I was willing to think that engine mounts or even dogbone is failing but now I’m a bit unsure.
Gearbox oil and filter was changed with 58000 km and I didn’t experience any improvement.

 

[wsd11]

I’ve been tracking your issue in another thread already.
I have kind of similar issues as you do.

My car is a 2018 s3 s tronic. I started to notice this shudder when I accelerate a bit hard and step off the gas pedal at 3000 RPM. (Only in decelerations)
I brought the car to Audi several times and they said that it is a normal behavior related to the AVS (variable camshaft) when the car returns from high rpm to low rpm range. That sounds to me like bullsh…

It is also related that the second to third gear in D shifts a bit harder. This only happens when I start driving in normal conditions. If I add some extra gas (very little) from 0km/h the car shifts from 2nd to 3rd very smooth, as should be.
I also have to say that both things ONLY happen when the car is at service temperature. When it’s cold, no shudder stepping off the pedal and smooth gear from 2nd to 3rd in “granny” mode driving.

The car also shifts smoother in S when cruising and I guess it’s because the gear changes in a higher rpm range from 2nd to 3rd.

Based on the first post I read from you I was willing to think that engine mounts or even dogbone is failing but now I’m a bit unsure.
Gearbox oil and filter was changed with 58000 km and I didn’t experience any improvement.

Have you figured out what was the problem? I have similar symptoms in my GTI. Curious about @Tbjhnsn as well.