Remap options for A4 272 Quattro?

DonnyWade

Registered User
Hi, does anyone have experience of remapping their A4 272 Quattro at all? I have had a box on it from TDI tuning for the last little while, which should be giving around 330bhp and 680nm, but I had the car on the dyno today to check it out and it's only producing 301bhp and 502lb/ft! So was pretty disappointed to be honest, the box is obviously not that reliable. So wanting to remap instead, but some tuners say their remap makes it 320bhp with 750nm for only £299, and others are charging £350 And only quoting 313bhp and 650nm.....So not sure what to go for to be honest. Have had probs with remaps in the past, so want to make sure I get a reliable one done - any advice? Cheers. D.
 

Baj257

Registered User
You need to find a well known company wherever is local to you. I used DMS automotive in Southampton, if you don’t want a rolling road done they will go anywhere in the country.
I paid around £600, car was on the dyno for a good 4 hours. Mine was mapped to 323bhp with 740nm torque. It could have run at 345bhp but it would have lost its economy, I do 600 miles a week so I still needed that.
JF automotive and Darkside Developments are also good.
had a tuning box but didn’t get on with it, some people do though and get good results and are happy with that.
There is another thread on here somewhere that covers a lot on this already.
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Hi, does anyone have experience of remapping their A4 272 Quattro at all? I have had a box on it from TDI tuning for the last little while, which should be giving around 330bhp and 680nm, but I had the car on the dyno today to check it out and it's only producing 301bhp and 502lb/ft! So was pretty disappointed to be honest, the box is obviously not that reliable. So wanting to remap instead, but some tuners say their remap makes it 320bhp with 750nm for only £299, and others are charging £350 And only quoting 313bhp and 650nm.....So not sure what to go for to be honest. Have had probs with remaps in the past, so want to make sure I get a reliable one done - any advice? Cheers. D.
Did you contact TDI tuning about differences in claimed output to actual and was the ambient temperature high enough whilst running the dyno, seeing it's a diesel...
 

desertstorm

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
VCDS Map User
I always take tuning box claims with a big pinch of salt. If you actually look at what most of them do they can only increase the fuel rail pressure and add some boost. They are unable to alter the injection timing or duration or alter any of the torque limiters and other protection that is built into an ECU. Most seem to quote numbers comparable with a good remap but you can only increase fuel pressure so much.
The tuning box appears to be giving you around a 10% increase a remap is typically more like 20-25% dependent on the engine and tuner.
@Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. A sponsor on here and very good with these is in Stockport. A bit of a run from Hereford but worth it. @bobby singh may be able to help you out, still a run to London though.
 

Audidi

Useful idiot
I decided to steer well clear of tuning boxes after researching them.
A lot of users found it clogged up the DPF (power loss) and caused frequent regens.

The power increase claims is laughable as most professional tuners quote a little bit more in power and torque from a full remap of a stock tdi.
 

cuke2u

Registered User
I am not about to start a debate about tuning boxes versus remaps, I have had both and this has been done to death. However there are as many negative myths out there about the boxes that there are with remaps.
All I can say is there is another AS site sponsor that back up their tuning box claims with facts and figures with real cars being tested. The problem, like anything, there will always be cheap copies produced that gives these boxes a bad name. Just as many remaps that claim this and that but fail to deliver also. It's like anything and there will always be those who will try and scam you..
 

Scuba Blue

Registered User
Hi, does anyone have experience of remapping their A4 272 Quattro at all? I have had a box on it from TDI tuning for the last little while, which should be giving around 330bhp and 680nm, but I had the car on the dyno today to check it out and it's only producing 301bhp and 502lb/ft! So was pretty disappointed to be honest, the box is obviously not that reliable. So wanting to remap instead, but some tuners say their remap makes it 320bhp with 750nm for only £299, and others are charging £350 And only quoting 313bhp and 650nm.....So not sure what to go for to be honest. Have had probs with remaps in the past, so want to make sure I get a reliable one done - any advice? Cheers. D.
Your torque is spot on; 680 nm is 501.54lb/ft
 

cuke2u

Registered User
The box should have up to seven different settings as well...
 

DonnyWade

Registered User
After making more enquiries today, it looks like there are 3 solid options:
1) 320bhp / 750nm for £299 + vat
2) 318bhp / 680nm for £350 + vat
3) 328bhp / 680nm for £355 inc vat (this map is apparently great for economy too)....
I'm torn between crazy torque (750nm) and less bhp, or less torque for more bhp!
Is there any real life experience out there of what is good and what's not?
 

/dev/null

Registered User
After making more enquiries today, it looks like there are 3 solid options:
1) 320bhp / 750nm for £299 + vat
2) 318bhp / 680nm for £350 + vat
3) 328bhp / 680nm for £355 inc vat (this map is apparently great for economy too)....
I'm torn between crazy torque (750nm) and less bhp, or less torque for more bhp!
Is there any real life experience out there of what is good and what's not?

There's 10 bhp in it - I doubt you'd notice all that much.
 

Ginge247

Registered User
Hi, does anyone have experience of remapping their A4 272 Quattro at all? I have had a box on it from TDI tuning for the last little while, which should be giving around 330bhp and 680nm, but I had the car on the dyno today to check it out and it's only producing 301bhp and 502lb/ft! So was pretty disappointed to be honest, the box is obviously not that reliable. So wanting to remap instead, but some tuners say their remap makes it 320bhp with 750nm for only £299, and others are charging £350 And only quoting 313bhp and 650nm.....So not sure what to go for to be honest. Have had probs with remaps in the past, so want to make sure I get a reliable one done - any advice? Cheers. D.
I know you say you are disappointed with the dyno numbers but the car must have drove well with 500lbft of torque?

Sent from my JSN-L21 using Tapatalk
 

Baj257

Registered User
After making more enquiries today, it looks like there are 3 solid options:
1) 320bhp / 750nm for £299 + vat
2) 318bhp / 680nm for £350 + vat
3) 328bhp / 680nm for £355 inc vat (this map is apparently great for economy too)....
I'm torn between crazy torque (750nm) and less bhp, or less torque for more bhp!
Is there any real life experience out there of what is good and what's not?

Like I said before, I have 323bhp and 740nm torque. I do a full tank a week and average around 50mpg if I drive nicely (working it out not car figures) long distance it’s much better with the map, local driving I’ll get 40mpg, so would probably be better off with a petrol if doing short distances. Below is an average over 24k miles.
0cfcef618270360f46761613d9097bf9.jpg
 

cuke2u

Registered User
After making more enquiries today, it looks like there are 3 solid options:
1) 320bhp / 750nm for £299 + vat
2) 318bhp / 680nm for £350 + vat
3) 328bhp / 680nm for £355 inc vat (this map is apparently great for economy too)....
I'm torn between crazy torque (750nm) and less bhp, or less torque for more bhp!
Is there any real life experience out there of what is good and what's not?
I think it would be good if you linked, or stated the names, to the companies that are offering these remaps. But with 750Nm I would be wary of transmission components being over stressed. Do any of them offer a mechanical warranty? I seem to remember Superchips did but only if the car still has the ma manufacturers warranty. However if you want a remap that has some support from Audi then ABT is your best bet, costly though..
 

syed123

Registered User
I went the dms route last week, initial impressions are:

It does certainly feel faster, not that much faster but it is noticeable compared to the tdi tuning box.

It's definitely quicker off the line, and it's more driveable and you know what to expect from the car.

To be fair to tdi tuning, with the tailored map they gave me, it runs the remap very close in my honest opinion, but just lacks the overall consistency of the remap, plus the remap probably does make the car faster than the box, just not as much as youd probably expect.

Having said all that I'm happy I've gone down the dms route with both tcu and ecu being tuned, they also came down to me which helped.

Overall, I'd say that the dms remap takes the tdi tuning box further and just makes the driving experience more consistent.
 

syed123

Registered User
Hi, does anyone have experience of remapping their A4 272 Quattro at all? I have had a box on it from TDI tuning for the last little while, which should be giving around 330bhp and 680nm, but I had the car on the dyno today to check it out and it's only producing 301bhp and 502lb/ft! So was pretty disappointed to be honest, the box is obviously not that reliable. So wanting to remap instead, but some tuners say their remap makes it 320bhp with 750nm for only £299, and others are charging £350 And only quoting 313bhp and 650nm.....So not sure what to go for to be honest. Have had probs with remaps in the past, so want to make sure I get a reliable one done - any advice? Cheers. D.

I'm really surprised at that result. Which map did you have on from tdi tuning?

I ran the box for 3 years with no issue.

After doing the remap vs the tuning box, I honestly felt that the box made it feel like 320-330bhp, torque did feel 500lbs plus.

The remap just takes all that further, maybe by about 20bhp and 30lbft, so enough to feel the difference but not crazy.

One thing I noticed with the boxes is loads of users Inc myself complaining about the consistency of the performance.

I guess this is down to the ecu always being in charge and the torque limits on the ecu staying within the limits.

However whatever map tdi put on for me honestly felt close to the remap dms have given.

500lbs ft torque is always gonna feel immense..
 

bobby singh

BSR
VCDS Map User
Gold Supporter
These tuning box just block dpf’s in my experience. You’ll notice car does more regen’s with it.

Anyone thats tuning this ecu for £300 is basically raping the nm2iq or duration map to the power.
They run a GTD2060 turbo with a extremely complicated ecu.
This is will take at least 2 to 3 days to do a true custom tune on this not a couple of hours (flash and dash).

Cheers
Bobby
 

DonnyWade

Registered User
You need to find a well known company wherever is local to you. I used DMS automotive in Southampton, if you don’t want a rolling road done they will go anywhere in the country.
I paid around £600, car was on the dyno for a good 4 hours. Mine was mapped to 323bhp with 740nm torque. It could have run at 345bhp but it would have lost its economy, I do 600 miles a week so I still needed that.
JF automotive and Darkside Developments are also good.
had a tuning box but didn’t get on with it, some people do though and get good results and are happy with that.
There is another thread on here somewhere that covers a lot on this already.
I like the sound of that as I do around 300 miles a day too so v good to know, thanks
 

DonnyWade

Registered User
Did you contact TDI tuning about differences in claimed output to actual and was the ambient temperature high enough whilst running the dyno, seeing it's a diesel...
No I haven't spoken to them, but to be fair I did recently take it in there for them to play around with it as it was over boosting the car on levels 5-7, and they ended up doing a custom setting on level 7 which stopped the over boosting problem. That's the setting I had Dyno'd, and I found the torque was spot on but the power was far lower than expected.
 

DonnyWade

Registered User
I know you say you are disappointed with the dyno numbers but the car must have drove well with 500lbft of torque?

Sent from my JSN-L21 using Tapatalk
Yes it does pull well, but now I'm on that addiction line of wanting more power. I just don't want to settle for 300 when I know I can get plenty more! The torque level is good to be fair.
 

DonnyWade

Registered User
Like I said before, I have 323bhp and 740nm torque. I do a full tank a week and average around 50mpg if I drive nicely (working it out not car figures) long distance it’s much better with the map, local driving I’ll get 40mpg, so would probably be better off with a petrol if doing short distances. Below is an average over 24k miles.
0cfcef618270360f46761613d9097bf9.jpg
I do like the sound of it, I also go to Southampton regularly so I'll give them a shout. You say you paid £600 for a 4 hour session tuning on the dyno?
 

DonnyWade

Registered User
I went the dms route last week, initial impressions are:

It does certainly feel faster, not that much faster but it is noticeable compared to the tdi tuning box.

It's definitely quicker off the line, and it's more driveable and you know what to expect from the car.

To be fair to tdi tuning, with the tailored map they gave me, it runs the remap very close in my honest opinion, but just lacks the overall consistency of the remap, plus the remap probably does make the car faster than the box, just not as much as youd probably expect.

Having said all that I'm happy I've gone down the dms route with both tcu and ecu being tuned, they also came down to me which helped.

Overall, I'd say that the dms remap takes the tdi tuning box further and just makes the driving experience more consistent.
Interesting, what figures is it running now - and is yours a 3.0?
 

DonnyWade

Registered User
I think it would be good if you linked, or stated the names, to the companies that are offering these remaps. But with 750Nm I would be wary of transmission components being over stressed. Do any of them offer a mechanical warranty? I seem to remember Superchips did but only if the car still has the ma manufacturers warranty. However if you want a remap that has some support from Audi then ABT is your best bet, costly though..
Mine is still under warranty which is my only worry. I only know one tuner that can truly make the remap traceless and that's Tom at Angel Tuning, he used to be a VAG technician so knows what he is doing. I have proved it too as I had a Octavia vRS mapped by him, and over the course of 2 years the head cracked on it twice. Believe me they crawled all over that car looking for faults and reasons and never found any. They replaced the top half of the engine TWICE on it, and never found out the car had been mapped.
I don't know many other tuning companies that can do that.
 

DonnyWade

Registered User
Mine is still under warranty which is my only worry. I only know one tuner that can truly make the remap traceless and that's Tom at Angel Tuning, he used to be a VAG technician so knows what he is doing. I have proved it too as I had a Octavia vRS mapped by him, and over the course of 2 years the head cracked on it twice. Believe me they crawled all over that car looking for faults and reasons and never found any. They replaced the top half of the engine TWICE on it, and never found out the car had been mapped.
I don't know many other tuning companies that can do that.
*All under warranty too I should add
 

Baj257

Registered User
I do like the sound of it, I also go to Southampton regularly so I'll give them a shout. You say you paid £600 for a 4 hour session tuning on the dyno?

It was around £600, can’t remember the exact amount with out looking at the receipt. They do a full diagnostics check and run it on the dyno to see what the car is running before tuning it. It will be on the Dyno for as long as it takes to get it done. Originally they said it shouldn’t take longer than 2 hours but it took longer. You also get 3 years of unlimited aftercare, so if you need the map removed/put back on before it goes to the dealer they will come to you anywhere in the country and change it back to stock, then put the map back on when you want them too.
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Mine is still under warranty which is my only worry. I only know one tuner that can truly make the remap traceless and that's Tom at Angel Tuning, he used to be a VAG technician so knows what he is doing. I have proved it too as I had a Octavia vRS mapped by him, and over the course of 2 years the head cracked on it twice. Believe me they crawled all over that car looking for faults and reasons and never found any. They replaced the top half of the engine TWICE on it, and never found out the car had been mapped.
I don't know many other tuning companies that can do that.
He must be flippin good then because I've never heard of any Audi remaps being untraceable...
 

bobby singh

BSR
VCDS Map User
Gold Supporter
No map is totally untraceable.
Flash count reset, CVN checks etc are all things which help.
However, I heard dealer can check max requested torque and therefore all the above doesn't come into play.
Unless you take a full back up before tuning etc
 
A

And1

Guest
I think it would be good if you linked, or stated the names, to the companies that are offering these remaps. But with 750Nm I would be wary of transmission components being over stressed. Do any of them offer a mechanical warranty? I seem to remember Superchips did but only if the car still has the ma manufacturers warranty. However if you want a remap that has some support from Audi then ABT is your best bet, costly though..
Isn't the zf 8speed also used in the audi 4.0 tdi and the likes of the bmw M550d which produce higher levels of torque
 
A

And1

Guest
I'm really surprised at that result. Which map did you have on from tdi tuning?

I ran the box for 3 years with no issue.

After doing the remap vs the tuning box, I honestly felt that the box made it feel like 320-330bhp, torque did feel 500lbs plus.

The remap just takes all that further, maybe by about 20bhp and 30lbft, so enough to feel the difference but not crazy.

One thing I noticed with the boxes is loads of users Inc myself complaining about the consistency of the performance.

I guess this is down to the ecu always being in charge and the torque limits on the ecu staying within the limits.

However whatever map tdi put on for me honestly felt close to the remap dms have given.

500lbs ft torque is always gonna feel immense..
I'm having the jf automotive remap on Saturday. Did you get the gearbox map and if so is it a improvement over the tmc flash? I was running the tdi box and also think it was inconsistent
 

cuke2u

Registered User
Isn't the zf 8speed also used in the audi 4.0 tdi and the likes of the bmw M550d which produce higher levels of torque
It is but there is also more to the transmission than just a gearbox and we know also that Audi tune their versions to different settings than BMW....
 
A

And1

Guest
It is but there is also more to the transmission than just a gearbox and we know also that Audi tune their versions to different settings than BMW....
I think the Q7 4.0 tdi is 900nm of torque and the bmw around 720nm
 

syed123

Registered User
I'm having the jf automotive remap on Saturday. Did you get the gearbox map and if so is it a improvement over the tmc flash? I was running the tdi box and also think it was inconsistent

The thing about the tmc tcu flash was the weird way of installation, it said you needed at least 50 100 miles and run the car in every gear etc to get the software to adapt.

I always felt that sometimes it didn't install properly as I flashed a number of times.

The dms tcu tune didn't take any crazy driving style of changing up or down the gears for the software to adapt and I literally felt the difference straight away, I knew what to expect which was nice.

Overall it feels the same as the tmc one but at least you know it's actually there.

Try dms, they do both ecu and tcu and they can come out to you.
 

syed123

Registered User
Interesting, what figures is it running now - and is yours a 3.0?

Yeah 272

It's supposed to be running 330bhp 700nm but haven't been on the dyno

Interestingly tdi tuning claim the same figures and to be fair to them when the box was running well it didn't feel far off at all to the dms remap.

The main noticeable differences are the torque limiters on the ecu, the car feels a lot more happy to go all out and less hesitant than before.

Using launch control also gives wheelspin and feels a lot more savage than the box, it feels more like when I put the box first on 3 years ago when the car was nearly new! Now I'm on 68k so for the car to drive better than that is really good.

I'm guessing the dms map gives an extra 10 -20 bhp and maybe 30nm extra? I'm not too sure as havent dynoed but the torque was already quite immense with the tdi box on.

The dms map just takes it further and is of course properly consistent.
 

syed123

Registered User
One thing I do feel is if I came across a car like a golf r at a set of lights I feel like this time I'd comfortably beat it, whereas with the tdi box on I was always neck and neck with them off the line, only had the edge on rolls.

Comparing that car as I regularly see them lol
 

cuke2u

Registered User
I think the Q7 4.0 tdi is 900nm of torque and the bmw around 720nm
Just being cautious as I stated there is more to transmission components then just a gearbox...
 

DonnyWade

Registered User
Finally had mine mapped today by DMS and wow did they do one hell of a job! Apparently it was a bit up on power anyway, as when they did the stock run the dyno was showing 284hp & 650nm (should be 272 & 600) - Rob (the owner) thinks it must just be that I have a v healthy engine. Anyway - the figures after remap: 366hp & 780nm!!
I nearly fell over backwards when they showed me the screen. Economy is better too, I had a 2 hour journey home and was giving it some stick at times, and averaged 39.8 MPG. So I am vv happy with the result and would reccomend them anytime. Awesome place to hang out while they do it, and Rob has some v tasty cars to drool over too.
Watch out S4 / S3 / Focus RS / A35 AMG etc....I'm coming for you!
 

syed123

Registered User
Finally had mine mapped today by DMS and wow did they do one hell of a job! Apparently it was a bit up on power anyway, as when they did the stock run the dyno was showing 284hp & 650nm (should be 272 & 600) - Rob (the owner) thinks it must just be that I have a v healthy engine. Anyway - the figures after remap: 366hp & 780nm!!
I nearly fell over backwards when they showed me the screen. Economy is better too, I had a 2 hour journey home and was giving it some stick at times, and averaged 39.8 MPG. So I am vv happy with the result and would reccomend them anytime. Awesome place to hang out while they do it, and Rob has some v tasty cars to drool over too.
Watch out S4 / S3 / Focus RS / A35 AMG etc....I'm coming for you!

Thats so impressive! I didnt even know that they could tune to that amount of power and torque. Although I must say that mine tuned by them doesn't feel that much, feels around 330bhp and 700nmish

Done 70k miles but tbh there are some days where it feels more.

I test drove an s7 tdi the other day and was really amused by the noise more than anything else.

There is a bit of lag but the feel of the thing won me over. Feels more like a v8.

Straight line performance I'd say my a4 is quicker, but maybe that's down to the weight.
 
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