OMG... VAG at it again?

[Daz Auto]

People have to realise that there are cons to quattro!

Just watching James Bond on telly... the new Audi A4 ad appears... did it actually say, 'quattro, better GRIP in all conditions!' ???

Seriously??? Do Audi seriously not know the difference between grip and traction?

Who do I report this false advertising to? I hope people do not fall for this propaganda!

PS... my next car is probably going to be a quattro for the performance traction ... not for the quattro grip!!!

... and for the people who disagree... please provide links to INDEPANDANT reviews of 4X4, AWD or quattro that show the SAFETY advantages?

It would appear that there is a lot of Audi marketing that cannot be believed!

 

[Gazwould]

I don't think Audi set out to be deceiving , they're just using a common word everyone understands , traction would mean to some something to do with broken/dislocated bones and relieving pressure on the skeletal system , lol .

Much like the majority of people incorrectly quoting "power" when it's torque when talking about a clutch , it's what most people understand .

 

[cuke2u]

+1 and the A4 Quattro, as has been pointed out, is a different system to the Quattro on the A3...

 

[Daz Auto]

Read this on another forum...

"There's no physical difference, but the layman uses "traction" to describe the ability to propel a car, and "grip" the ability to corner or stop it.

In these terms, a 4WD system gives you more traction, using the potential of all four wheels rather than just two, but absolutely no more grip, as all four wheels are already used for cornering and braking. That's why 4WD and lack of common sense is a dangerous combination in the snow - a 4WD car is very easy to accelerate, but no better at anything else."

 

[alFR]

Well, you could argue that the ability to transfer power front to rear and vice versa as the wheels start to lose traction (which IIRC Audi say Quattro does, although it works a bit differently depending on whether it's the older multi-plate clutch / self-locking centre differential systems or the new on-demand system) might reduce the likelihood of the wheels breaking away (or reduces the severity of that) when cornering. That aside, I think:

• You're preaching to the converted here, most of the people on this forum probably realise that 4WD isn't going to help you stop.
• This isn't really a specific issue re: the B9 A4, is it?

 

[Daz Auto]

Well, you could argue that the ability to transfer power front to rear and vice versa as the wheels start to lose traction (which IIRC Audi say Quattro does, although it works a bit differently depending on whether it's the older multi-plate clutch / self-locking centre differential systems or the new on-demand system) might reduce the likelihood of the wheels breaking away (or reduces the severity of that) when cornering.

I did see the video on the torsion quattro vectoring system which appeared to show the 4WD transferring force between tyres to increase stability when cornering in an emergency. The problem is, it was computer generated by Audi.

That aside, I think:
You're preaching to the converted here, most of the people on this forum probably realise that 4WD isn't going to help you stop.

Seriously? I doubt that the casual reader here will really have though about it. In my experience most people believe the advertising. They do not understand that quattro is primarily a performance feature. Most people I speak to really believe it is a safety feature.

A few years ago I looked at adding quattro to my wife's A3. I believed it would be safer for her in the winter. It was only after much research that I decided that quattro offered no safety advantages. The safest solution was to fit winter tyres. They offer better grip, cornering and traction below 7C.

I am seriously considering adding quattro to my next car. I will be doing so to hopefully eliminate under steer, front wheel spin and improve acceleration in all conditions. All the things quattro is good at. For real safety improvements I will still fit winter tyres.

This isn't really a specific issue re: the B9 A4, is it?

... it was an A4 advert. Which is why I posted it in this section.

 

[alFR]

... it was an A4 advert. Which is why I posted it in this section.

Fair point.

Agreed on the winter tyres!

 

[cuke2u]

Daz, you have a point but really I think, as with most advertising it is the same. I have a once a day shower spray that states it will clean my shower without scrubbing, does it heck, but do I believe it?
With the greatests of respect you are just coming across as having just a bit of a rant really and doing no favours to yourself by flaming. Do you own or are you thinking of buying a a4, maybe there's something we can help you with?

 

[Daz Auto]

Daz, you have a point but really I think, as with most advertising it is the same. I have a once a day shower spray that states it will clean my shower without scrubbing, does it heck, but do I believe it?

This is a car discussion forum. I'm just point out Audi marketing lies to people who may not have thought about it.

With the greatests of respect you are just coming across as having just a bit of a rant really and doing no favours to yourself by flaming. Do you own or are you thinking of buying a a4, maybe there's something we can help you with?

I fully realise that what I am saying will be unpopular with some people here. Especially those who are trying to sell cars. What I am saying may cause some people to reconsider their options. Also, some owners may feel disappointed that there quattro cars are not as safe as they think they are.

Yes I am considering buying an A4. I am currently researching the new adaptive damping system, torsen vs haldex, 17" vs 18" tyres. Though maybe I should start with car dimesnsions as an A4 may not fit in our garage.

 

[cuke2u]

Daz, its not unpopular Daz, just maybe not something that really bothers us that much. Much of what you are saying could be true but, as I stated, I think we all realise that most advertisements distort things. Perhaps the depate about quattro being as safe or not is one for a more general Audi forum.
I can't help you with the dimensions of the car I am afraid, it is what it is despite it being smaller than some other cars in the same class, such as a Passat or a Mondeo...

 

[Dippy]

Though maybe I should start with car dimesnsions as an A4 may not fit in our garage.

LOL - you wouldn't be the first person to buy a car that doesn't fit in the garage!

However I'll throw some oil on this bonfire: Surely 4 tyres grip better than 2 tyres so 4WD does provide more grip?

 

[Daz Auto]

Perhaps the depate about quattro being as safe or not is one for a more general Audi forum.

... that is true. My reason for starting the thread here is in post #6 above.

I have found the A4 advert on Audi UK's youtube channel. It says, 'BETTER GRIP, FOR EVERYDAY TRIPS.' I really hope people buying this car understand the difference between grip and traction.

 

[Daz Auto]

LOL - you wouldn't be the first person to buy a car that doesn't fit in the garage!

Or the first person to believe that 4x4, AWD, 4WD, 4 motion or quattro, provided better grip in poor conditions.

There was a frosty weekend last year. The roads here were really slippy. A local garage was full of crashed four wheel drive vehicles. My mate could not get his car in for an MOT check. These poor people obviously believed the myths around four wheel drive. I hope nobody was injured or killed.

However I'll throw some oil on this bonfire: Surely 4 tyres grip better than 2 tyres so 4WD does provide more grip?

Even 2 wheel drive cars have 4 wheel grip. See post #4 above. Audi are not alone in marketing four wheel drive as safety feature. Though they are responsible for perpetuating this myth the most.

 

[1wheelonly]

No traction without grip

Crashed 4wd cars = people relying on it too much, thinking there invincible

When ever it's frosty all I see is stranded bmws



On iPhone using Tapacrap

 

[B5NUT]

It's Audi marketing BS, all manufactures use it. BMW use the "Ultimate driving machine" since when has a 118d or 320d been an ultimate driving machine!

 

[ScottishA4B9]

Yeah BMW used to say they made the ultimate driving machines in all weathers!!! Yeah try driving one on a wet or snow covered road!!

 

[Scottyg]

I mentioned this in another thread yesterday. That advert is p1ss poor, and not because of what you perceive as poor advertising but because it's simply a poor advert. The song from "Are you being served?" Is pants and the whole concept of a department store is even worse. Time to change the Advertising team. Poor Audi, very poor.

 

[Dippy]

Or the first person to believe that 4x4, AWD, 4WD, 4 motion or quattro, provided better grip in poor conditions.

There was a frosty weekend last year. The roads here were really slippy. A local garage was full of crashed four wheel drive vehicles. My mate could not get his car in for an MOT check. These poor people obviously believed the myths around four wheel drive. I hope nobody was injured or killed.

Even 2 wheel drive cars have 4 wheel grip. See post #4 above. Audi are not alone in marketing four wheel drive as safety feature. Though they are responsible for perpetuating this myth the most.

Yeah, I do remember a few years back a guy asking me if my B5 S4 was great in the snow. I remember saying "on these low profile tyres - you must be kidding!".

 

[desertstorm]

... that is true. My reason for starting the thread here is in post #6 above.

I have found the A4 advert on Audi UK's youtube channel. It says, 'BETTER GRIP, FOR EVERYDAY TRIPS.' I really hope people buying this car understand the difference between grip and traction.

That advert does not say "BETTER GRIP, FOR EVERYDAY TRIPS"
It actually states ALL-WHEEL GRIP FOR EVERYDAY TRIPS .

Which is entirely true as all wheels can be driven, and the car is an everday vechicle.
This entire thread is based on your interpretation of what you are seeing in the ad. You are making the assumption that Audi are saying Quattro gives you better grip. But this is not implicitly stated, also it doesn't say that it provides better grip in all situations, so the advert works well. And the fact that you are talking about it means it really works well.
They are using the word GRIP as people are more likely to understand that and can relate to it.
Also it's probably related to what is known as the tyre grip trade off principle, which is a very well known and debated idea.

http://www.iam-bristol.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=252&Itemid=58

Even though mine is a quattro I still have a set of winter tyres. Not getting much use out of them in the last few years though.

 

[cuke2u]

Interesting, I only gave the video a second glance...

 

[Daz Auto]

That advert does not say "BETTER GRIP, FOR EVERYDAY TRIPS"
It actually states ALL-WHEEL GRIP FOR EVERYDAY TRIPS .
View attachment 97397
Which is entirely true as all wheels can be driven, and the car is an everday vechicle..

...I'm confused... are the words drive and grip interchangeable?

Does this mean that my car is not a front wheel drive car? Is it actually a front wheel grip car? Or is it just a 2 wheel grip car? Then does that make motorcycles 1 wheel grip?

Why did they not use the words all-wheel drive? After all, that is what the quattro system is.

They also show the car driving through ice in the advert. So the implication is that quattro has all-wheel grip for everyday trips on ice.

Even though mine is a quattro I still have a set of winter tyres. Not getting much use out of them in the last few years though.

We both fit our winter tyres when the temperature drops below 7c.

 

[Daz Auto]

Yeah, I do remember a few years back a guy asking me if my B5 S4 was great in the snow. I remember saying "on these low profile tyres - you must be kidding!".

A woman at my work bought a brand new A4 S-line about 4/5 years ago. After that really bad UK winter, she changed it because it was so bad on snow and ice. She believed that since the Audi car adverts showed their cars driving in all conditions that her Audi A4 would be good in bad conditions. She was really disappointed and changed it for a 4x4. I pointed out to her, that my car was poor on snow and ice until I put on the winter tyres. She admitted it would have been much cheaper to just change the tyres.

So people do watch the adverts and associated Audi with cars that are better/safer to drive in poor weather.

Was it a famous German that said - if you repeat a lie often enough, people will start to believe it.