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Cannot rotate engine, hard lock / clunk at 80% rotation on crank.

Stuart B Aug 12, 2018

  1. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    As long as you have the top slightly tighter than the 2nd you’ll be good to put them in at say 0.35 and 0.4

    You just have to be careful with worn cylinders, hence having to measure top, middle and bottom of the bore.
    Too big a gap may result in excessive blow by, too small and it might wear the rings excessively for lack of room for thermal expansion, and still create blow by.


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  3. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    Thanks Karl, so imagine if untouched ring is top is 0.35, middle is 0.30 and bottom is 0.35

    Do I gap 0.35 for the middle as 0.3 is too small?

    Do you reckon I can get by with a file alone for such small tolerances?
     
  4. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    Collected my head, very happy for £108
    Now when I dropped it off the owner said there would probably be some unavoidable 'blow holes' looks pretty good to me although considering i cannot read fonts below 8pt even with my glasses on I'm probably not a good judge. Also I assume these are the shims added to give the spring a little more pre-load, fitted to the k04 heads?

    Head gasket kit next I suppose, so I can put the head back together. Still not sure about turbo and manifold direction.


    Screenshot_20180924-151959_Gallery.jpg Screenshot_20180924-152040_Gallery.jpg Screenshot_20180924-152102_Gallery.jpg
    Screenshot_20180924-153131_Gallery.jpg
     
  5. S3AMJ

    S3AMJ OEM+

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    Well done Stu, nice save with the repair! Looks good. You know it makes sense to get the AET-380 at this rate you’ll have it all together before Christmas!


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  6. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    Hmm I'm not sure about this, both time wise and cost wise. I might consider an interim solution, my biggest fear is doing something wrong regarding the engine internals. And i will only be confident of this maybe after 1500 miles after its been put back together, if I'm confident of the internals then maybe go a step up later on. But I'm also keeping the stock exhaust valves with which won't be ideal for too much power.

    When the rods were delivered they came with instructions saying to measure the arp2000 bolts before and after stretching and if stretched by more than 0.24mm then throw away? Does this happen a lot?
     
  7. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Can do if you over tighten them or reuse too many times... have seen them fail on reuse before

    <tuffty/>
     
  8. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    The ARP instructions I saw were - do up to 50lb/ft once, undo then repeat to 50lb/ft, undo then do up to 50lb/ft and leave? will this be fine for 99.99% of new installations?

    I think, I keep scaring myself with precise details like - make sure all protection oil is removed from the rods before fitting and ensure the rod big end bore and the outer of the big end bearing are totally dry and free from oil and only put oil on the inside of the big end bearing. there's a lot of oil in that area and I am lying on my back under the car.
    I cannot even manage to remove the rod caps using my fingers - I'm so weak and feeble.
     
  9. ADs3

    ADs3 Active Member Silver Supporter

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    Good to see your getting on with this staurt & taking it on yourself....mucho respecto.
    A bit daunting no doubt but you've plenty of good reliable info here from fellow members so I wouldn't worry about getting something wrong it's not like your gonna go ahead with something until your 100% confident it's right eh but I can understand your scepticism.
    Personally if it was me & the possibility of adding more power later on which sounds inevitable Ie a hybrid you'd be saving yourself a ball ache by adding the exhaust valves now & possibly a ported chinafold to go with your ko4 for a good stage 2 car. You'd have the foundations layed for the hybrid when the funds & itch for that bit more if they should arise & if not you've a solid stage 2
    Keep up the good work:icon thumright:
     
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  10. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    I'm still considering a hybrid, just a cheaper package that's why I have split the turbo into hot side and snail. There was nothing wrong with the previous turbo. Looking at updated CHRA, 11psi actuator and chinafold or actually a different tubular manifold. (Not relentless)
     
  11. hydro s3

    hydro s3 S3 amk

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    I think you should at least change the exhaust valve's while you have it all apart.
    You don't want to do all this build and then add the hybrid and a then a valve fail.
    For the sake of a couple hundred quid it would be peace of mind.
     
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  13. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    You can’t just change the CHRA, the wheels will be different sizes and trims so the stock comp cover and turbine housing won’t accommodate hybrid wheels.


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  14. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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  15. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    and this is the manifold I am considering

    upload_2018-9-24_23-31-0.png
     
  16. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Ok fair enough


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  17. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    AKA relentless V4


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  18. Rainbird

    Rainbird Registered User

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    Don't bother with that manifold, as with most Relentless offerings they love to crack (which is a shame as those actually flow reasonably well). You'll only end up having to replace it in the near future.

    Sadly there are few better options about in terms of flow (press Chinafold takes the win there I believe) but I'd take a performance hit for added reliability every day of the week.

    When the Pro4 was released I actually won a free one. Still wasn't enough of an incentive for me to ever run it, so it found a new home almost as soon as it arrives.
     
  19. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    Thanks, for the feedback on the manifold, I'm not interested if it is a relentless v4, as everyone complains about them cracking. I thought the relentless manifolds were like my fake one I didn't fit, that must have been a v3 - it was a terrible fit and almost impossible to do up.

    https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/s3-ebay-exhaust-manifold-no-dissing-please.276724/

    Has anyone had any joy porting a stock manifold, I know they are limited to 300?

    So I think I'll go the ported chinafold route.
     
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  20. ADs3

    ADs3 Active Member Silver Supporter

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    I'd go for the ported chinafold and have a go at doing it yourself too, make a template if the hot side on the turbo is opened out, get some burrs & go for it. I got mine back & after looking at it there's not allot to it that you couldn't do yourself......Just trawl the net for pics of previously done manifolds & go from there mate you'll save yourself £ just for a bit of time & effort. Obviously won't be like B5 sell with there aet package but I bet you can do a good job of it if you put in the effort
     
  21. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    Hmm I was considering this, I'm not expecting this setup to be anywhere near anything an expert produces, but I just don't have the cash to do this properly, some people might say 'don't bother then' but I still need the car working just can't go to the nth degree.
     
  22. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    Big thanks to everyone involved for sending out a replacement piston.. looks like new :) i will call up tomorrow to sort out the postage as your card machine was having a banana. Considering legging it, but realised you had my address ;)

    Getting my new inlet valve delivered. Still in a quandary over exhaust valves... they are either 80 quid, or 300 quid...

    Screenshot_20180925-210646_Gallery.jpg
     
  23. hydro s3

    hydro s3 S3 amk

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    Id go for the good valves if ur budget will let you.
     
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  24. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    thats what I mean the stock ones are 80 but supertech Inconel are 300 - what would be the point in buying stock ones? or would new stock ones be better than existing stock ones? I think stock are "bi-metal"?

    is the issue the pressure or the heat? or a mixture of both?
     
  25. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    so ordered chinafold from aliexpress - paid a tenner extra to use paypal - I hope I got the "newer" version as the cheaper ones had fins on the collector topside and none of the other ones I have seen have these (those ones are 20 quid less)
     
  26. S3 Hilife

    S3 Hilife It's an addiction Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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    The stock valves are sodium filled, the main enemy is heat, from what I understand (and someone please correct me if I’m talking ****, lol) at high temperatures the sodium which usually would aid in transferring heat becomes ineffective and can lead to damage of the valve itself, so ko4 hybrids which produce higher gas temperatures would need something more suitable like inconel to endure those temperatures

    What’s your plan for porting it Stuart?
     
  27. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    Not sure yet, I might try and follow an example on the TT Forum - although they still had a misfire at 6K. It's weird as the German re-seller of these manifolds for £430 dont look like they have done any porting?

    This is interesting? is this a custom manifold - I have never seen one like this before?

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-8t-20v-k04-manifold-/283135705578

    upload_2018-9-26_8-42-33.png



    My issues are I sort of need to buy everything else to put the car back together

    bottom end - I have rods, rings, bearings, pistons, sump, still need oil pickup o-ring (sometimes it is cheaper to buy a replacement than the o-ring or gaskets, I bought a oil level sensor blanking plate as it was £3 cheaper than just the gasket which I needed) - so hopefully that will go together at the weekend.

    head - manifold is 7-30 days delivery, but I need a head gasket kit and cam bolt and a decision about exhaust valves before I rebuild the head.

    turbo - I still need oil feed pipe and CHRA, uprated actuator and understand the correct alignment of hot side, chra and compression housing

    The order I want to put it together is bottom end, turbo and then get the head put on - after this the pipework and modifications for the PCV delete.

    I also still need a new turbo coolant after-run pump.

    you can really appreciate why professional engine rebuilds are so expensive
     
  28. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    china fold is cheap to buy and known to work reliably when ported... just get one of those...

    <tuffty/>
     
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  29. S3 Hilife

    S3 Hilife It's an addiction Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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    £430 seems excessive if it’s not been ported fully in my opinion
     
  30. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    I know that was my point, i paid £204 for gen2 from aliexpress.
     
  31. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Have you a link to the TT example?


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  32. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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  34. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    okay so I cannot split the caps off the PEC rods, I know this seems ridiculous; but I dont want to damage anything trying to prise them apart - do they have raised guides or something?
     
  35. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Yes they will

    Pull like ****


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  36. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    rock them off... I sometimes clamp the bottom half in a workmate (soft wood or similar jaws) and waggle the rod to separate... make sure you keep them together though... and make sure tang slots are orientated correctly... tangs should be inlet side of the engine

    <tuffty/>
     
  37. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    Okay thanks, I will check the orientation of the rods against the piston and the pistons against the block. This is why Bill provided instructions using layout paint first. I assume a sharpie is fine to start with. Numbered on the correct end of each.
     
  38. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    just to be sure?

    1. the piston indent always face to the front of the car

    20180928_211019.jpg


    2. the tangs are the indent to help locate the big end bearings and they all need to face front of engine too.

    20180928_211038.jpg

    all of my rods currently have the tangs to the rear, it'll only take a moment to swap them round, just wondering if it is a standard more than a requirement - so that everyone knows the way around they will be.

    Thanks - I want to try and get the bottom end done this weekend - then october turbo, november head and running on kiddy power, december fuelling, January mapping. #slowwinner
     
  39. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Piston cut out is for the centre inlet valve so yeah, that faces inlet side as does the tangs

    <tuffty/>
     
  40. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    manifold is the same as the crack tastic relentless/xs power things
    same china factory these things are peddled out of.
     
  41. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    still miles away (still owe Bill for postage too ;) too but I will settle up good...)

    this arrived (yes the vinegar)

    20181004_204335.jpg 20181004_204425.jpg 20181004_204603.jpg 20181004_204635.jpg

    I know nothing about porting but it is clear to see that the chinafold is not opened up as much as stock at the exhaust ports.


    And I have the new turbo CHRA.

    20181004_205253.jpg

    and some side by side comparisons with the old one.

    20181004_205348.jpg
    20181004_205410.jpg
     
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  42. hydro s3

    hydro s3 S3 amk

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    That's the 1st time I've saw chinafold beside a stock manifold but your right you do have a lot of porting to do. What will you use to port it?
     
  43. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    some samples for you to compare against of what we do for porting them.
    [​IMG]
    42mm gasket match blended into the cast runners.. Gasket template to ensure they align. (often casting does not as supplied!)

    47mm on ours on inlet to match & align to the K04-380 we do.. runners heavily ported where they feed into the collector area. Intially bored 18mm deep x 47mm diameter by CNC. The rest is hard graft and several carbide cutters, flap wheels etc
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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