CAM follower has one hole filled?

[S3Hus]

Hello peeps,

Ive just bought an s3 2007 which recently had a timing chain failure due to tensioner, now its currently having the both ends and stuff checked due to a really loud tapping sound.

my question is that when i removed the cam follower which has 4 holes in the face of the follower, i noticed that one of the holes is filled/closed with what looks to be some sort of epoxy.

now the car has apparently got a stage 2+ map, any ideas why this follower would have one of the 4 tiny holes filled? could this be a tuning thing/mod? or should i just replace with a new follower?

thanks

 

[Adamdavid899]

Hello peeps,

Ive just bought an s3 2007 which recently had a timing chain failure due to tensioner, now its currently having the both ends and stuff checked due to a really loud tapping sound.

my question is that when i removed the cam follower which has 4 holes in the face of the follower, i noticed that one of the holes is filled/closed with what looks to be some sort of epoxy.

now the car has apparently got a stage 2+ map, any ideas why this follower would have one of the 4 tiny holes filled? could this be a tuning thing/mod? or should i just replace with a new follower?

thanks

They most definitely should not have the hole filled.

Are you sure it's been purposely filled and not bits of debree?



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[Adamdavid899]

They most definitely should not have the hole filled.

Are you sure it's been purposely filled and not bits of debree?



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I just changed mine recently as part of the cam chain tensioner job since it has to come off anyway.. the old and brand new genuine one I bought from aks tuning didn't have any holes filled.

Edit, the only real purpose I can see by them having any holes is for somewhere for the lubricants to pass through.. otherwise it would make more sense for it to be completely solid and make it more durable.. but correct me if I'm wrong someone.

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[S3Hus]

Okay, i'll be sure to get a new one then! ill see if i can get a pic it looks as if it's been filled with like some clear epoxy or glue.

Another Q for you guys, can a clogged pick up pipe stop the cam chain tensioner from like holding its tension? now the car itself has all valves checked bottom end has mostly been checked and all looks good - sound definitely sounds like it is coming from the top end, but the cam chain and tensioner are brand new however its still making a very loud slapping sound, and when you come of the revs it chatters. as the sound is still there the car hasnt been driven since the replacement of cam chain. im thinking could it be pick up pipe related? maybe not holding the pressure to keep tensioner up?

 

[Adamdavid899]

Okay, i'll be sure to get a new one then! ill see if i can get a pic it looks as if it's been filled with like some clear epoxy or glue.

Another Q for you guys, can a clogged pick up pipe stop the cam chain tensioner from like holding its tension? now the car itself has all valves checked bottom end has mostly been checked and all looks good - sound definitely sounds like it is coming from the top end, but the cam chain and tensioner are brand new however its still making a very loud slapping sound, and when you come of the revs it chatters. as the sound is still there the car hasnt been driven since the replacement of cam chain. im thinking could it be pick up pipe related? maybe not holding the pressure to keep tensioner up?

The tensioner has a preload spring.. I'm not sure if this will be strong enough to hold tension if it's not getting enough oil pressure during normal operation, its just there to hold some sort of pressure against the chain and eliminate cold start slack etc. If the tensioner and chain get to the point where the tensioner is at the top of the travel it actually has a hole part way down the piston to release pressure and stop it going too far .. once it's worn to that point it will no longer hold the chain tight.

This is just what I've observed from my own job. But as you say if it's brand new it shouldn't be that issue. Is it a good branded chain ?

I'd say for sure though if the cam follower doesn't come with any epoxy or anything from factory then it's definitely not supposed to be there. It will probably graze the cam lobe too and act like an abrasive.

Did you check the tensioner preloaded properly after you pulled the holding pin when the new chain was on? If not it may have been stuck or not functioning.



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[Adamdavid899]

Hmm actually I'm not sure I'm right about the tensioner in this case.

Unless your oil dipstick is in-between the inlet manifold and the bonnet catch..

If the oil dipstick is in-between the right front wheel and the engine ( left side timing cover area when looking at the engine bay from the front )


You may have an ea888 engine and not an ea113.


If you've had a failed chain of any description and it's now knocking.. id be sure to do a compression test as you more than likely bent valves and hit pistons ?


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[samuelh_888]

Hmm actually I'm not sure I'm right about the tensioner in this case.

Unless your oil dipstick is in-between the inlet manifold and the bonnet catch..

If the oil dipstick is in-between the right front wheel and the engine ( left side timing cover area when looking at the engine bay from the front )

You may have an ea888 engine and not an ea113.

If you've had a failed chain of any description and it's now knocking.. id be sure to do a compression test as you more than likely bent valves and hit pistons ?

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It's a 2007 S3 so BHZ - EA113.


I suspect the cam follower is blocked by debris, not silicon but you might as well replace it now it's out.

Take a read of the Preventative Maintenance thread if you haven't yet. The oil pickup is worth doing - if the bottom end and top end are being checked over now then ask them to change the pickup while they're at it.

 

[Adamdavid899]

It's a 2007 S3 so BHZ - EA113.


I suspect the cam follower is blocked by debris, not silicon but you might as well replace it now it's out.

Take a read of the Preventative Maintenance thread if you haven't yet. The oil pickup is worth doing - if the bottom end and top end are being checked over now then ask them to change the pickup while they're at it.

My bad got the years mixed up!

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[Adamdavid899]

I was thinking with the ea888 he might of meant the main timing chain tensioner between the crank and top end.

Or if it's he ea113 then my description of the tensioner between the cams is right.

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[Adamdavid899]

My old hpfp follower and the whole in the tensioner I was talking about to relieve pressure once it gets too extended.

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[S3Hus]

awesome, i see thanks for the info ! makes sense, as the sound definitely is some sort of chain slap - however when coming of the revs it sounds like a can of marbles? unsure about that- yep just ordered another cam follower, although my one does look in good nick - the top left hole looks to be filled for some reason. i dont suppose this could cause a loud tapping sound could it?

 

[Adamdavid899]

awesome, i see thanks for the info ! makes sense, as the sound definitely is some sort of chain slap - however when coming of the revs it sounds like a can of marbles? unsure about that- yep just ordered another cam follower, although my one does look in good nick - the top left hole looks to be filled for some reason. i dont suppose this could cause a loud tapping sound could it?

Be interested to know what that can of marbles sound is aswell.. I had it before changing the chain and after.. it's more at about 30-40 percent load around 2250 - 3200 rpm. If I let off it goes after about a second. If I floor it it also goes. I don't think it's the chain. It can't be as I've just changed it !

I thought it was the chain but I also had a knocking at idle that went when revved up. Doing the chain and tensioner got rid of that but not the marble sound. I don't have an S3 but a 2.0tfsi bwa engine. Practically the same engine just yours is more uprated on the internals and different turbo.

Edit, it also seems to disappear after it's fully warmed up. But it's there the whole time otherwise during those rpm and load conditions. I try and stay out of that circumstance while I'm driving.

Also I had a right racket during cold start only the first time in the day..

It would make a bunch of rattling and go away when the choke came off and then rpm dropped .. this was also the chain and was cured by changing it. It cold starts and idles perfect now.

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[samuelh_888]

@S3Hus - no, the hole in the follower won’t cause the slapping sound. Who did the chain and tensioner for you? Get it back to them to be checked. Alternatively get it to a specialist to diagnose. I suspect your tensioner isn’t holding pressure or your balance shaft could be failing.

 

[Adamdavid899]

@S3Hus - no, the hole in the follower won’t cause the slapping sound. Who did the chain and tensioner for you? Get it back to them to be checked. Alternatively get it to a specialist to diagnose. I suspect your tensioner isn’t holding pressure or your balance shaft could be failing.

What are the symptoms of a failing balance shaft exactly. Not to hijack the post but it's still related I'm just interested to know.


I thought if it was failing then it would be loose in the housing and loose oil pressure ? Or am I wrong..

I was looking at doing a delete with the 1.8t pump but it looks a nightmare with the helicoil and drilling etc needed. .



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[samuelh_888]

My S3 had a buzzing at 2k rpm - mainly on deceleration . It was still there after changing chain and tensioner. As it was u see warranty I took it to Audi who diagnosed play in the balance shaft.

If that’s the case for you, do the balance shaft delete - don’t pay upwards of £1800 to fix.

Get it into a specialist to diagnose.

 

[Adamdavid899]

My S3 had a buzzing at 2k rpm - mainly on deceleration . It was still there after changing chain and tensioner. As it was u see warranty I took it to Audi who diagnosed play in the balance shaft.

If that’s the case for you, do the balance shaft delete - don’t pay upwards of £1800 to fix.

Get it into a specialist to diagnose.

Yeah I do all my own work and prefer not to send my car anywhere really.. maybe I'm just anàl. I've always done it that way, It's not too hard to whip the sump off and check the play just a pain of a job getting those awkward bolts up by the gearbox etc!

Id prefer to get rid of the balance shafts since I'm running more power than factory I've heard they're just trouble





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[S3Hus]

thanks for the pics dude! now dropped the sump last night and there look to be lots and lots of 1mm sized shavings, in the pan and pickup pipe - also some orange bits of plastic that have come of the chain tensioner that failed above - could this be traces of an old failed cam follower maybe? how blocked does the pickup pipe need to be to stop oil flow? there was no sludge as i think the oil had some petrol init however would the bits of plastic from the tensioner, metal shavings and the silicone thats slipped of the seal be enough to affect oil pressure?

 

[Adamdavid899]

thanks for the pics dude! now dropped the sump last night and there look to be lots and lots of 1mm sized shavings, in the pan and pickup pipe - also some orange bits of plastic that have come of the chain tensioner that failed above - could this be traces of an old failed cam follower maybe? how blocked does the pickup pipe need to be to stop oil flow? there was no sludge as i think the oil had some petrol init however would the bits of plastic from the tensioner, metal shavings and the silicone thats slipped of the seal be enough to affect oil pressure?

Hmm that's not good.. it could be parts of the old chain the shavings and any **** on the pickup will effect it.. in my experience these engines are very picky with oil pressure and related issues.

If the plastic has come off the tensioner then likely the chain was riding right ontop of the metal piston on the tensioner.. this could also create shavings.

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[samuelh_888]

If it’s yellow plastic I’d say it’s your dip-stick starting to break down. It’s a common fault and for about £12 should be upgraded.

While the sump is off give it a good clean, replace the pickup and oring (don’t just give it a good clean) then new oil and filter.

Can’t see it being a failed cam follower - you’d sure know if it was!

 

[S3Hus]

the plastics orange and from the cam chain tensioner that failed, however its the metal im concerned about theres alot of it in the sump

 

[S3Hus]

Can a failed cam tensioner cause the bottom end/ bearings to go?

as im thinking the metal flakes in sump could be from a bearing or rod- is there any way to check the rods for play without removing the engine? it seems the oil pump is blocking access when looking from the bottom with the sump removed?

thanks :S

 

[samuelh_888]

You won’t see up the oil pick-up as you have the balance shaft above this. You’ll need to drop the balance shaft to see the bottom end. The metal flakes could be anything, previously failed chain, tensioner, cam shaft or most likely the balance shaft itself. Possibly a bearing but I suspect you’d have a knocking bottom end of this was the case.

 

[Adamdavid899]

Can a failed cam tensioner cause the bottom end/ bearings to go?

as im thinking the metal flakes in sump could be from a bearing or rod- is there any way to check the rods for play without removing the engine? it seems the oil pump is blocking access when looking from the bottom with the sump removed?

thanks :S

I've gotta admit it doesn't sound good :/

You can check for connecting rod play on the crankshaft using the following method..

Remove all spark plugs.

Insert a long bar or screwdriver into the cylinder.

Turn the engine over by hand using the crank pulley clockwise untill the screwdriver has reached the top of it's travel and has started to go down a bit.

This way the friction of the piston is pulling any slack in the rod bearings away and just after it has started to go down you can stop rotating the engine. Then push down on the screwdriver, if the bearings have bad clearance you will feel a slight 'click' and the screwdriver will go down a fraction.

Repeat for corresponding cylinders. However as stated if you have any bad rod bearings you'll hear a knocking sound when the engine is running for sure !



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[Adamdavid899]

Just to add if you had a failed bearing usually what happens is it knocks.. then it actually causes oil pressure to rise periodically because the bearing crushes and blocks oil passages in the crankshaft which are leading into the bearings.. then when they finally spin and fail it will loose pressure and your dashboard would be beeping its head off warning you of low oil pressure.

If you had rod knock you would know for certain.. it's enough to make you want to turn the engine off put it that way

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[S3Hus]

Hello !!

yep my rod bearings are F***ed!
a couple of them a worn literally razor thin!, oil pump was free and smooth

So I called audi to order these, and they had told em something about colours? asking what colour i need - I can't see any colours there just silver bearing shells- any ideas?