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Audi asking about mods

Psyman79 May 18, 2017

  1. Psyman79

    Psyman79 Sarcasm is hard on a forum ;)

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    Just went in to Aberdeen Audi to drop my car off to get my heated seat button changed and they asked me if the car had been tuned/chipped/modified in any way. Said it was a new thing to do with servicing so I'm assuming they're looking a bit harder for these things.

    Just thought I'd mention it.

    Si :)
     
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  3. GSB

    GSB Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

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    The Audi Cyberdyne system will pick it up and TD1 a modified car automatically anyway, so perhaps they're just trying to pre-empt the inevitable customer disappointment when it does.
     
  4. peter-d-w

    peter-d-w Registered User

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    What does TD1 mean please?

    Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk
     
  5. richinsoton

    richinsoton Registered User

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    It's also due to the rise in clocked cars in turn due to the increase in sales of cars via PCP... People saying they're doing 6k a year when they're actually doing 20k + & clocking the mileage back which then also has implications to services not carried out on time / increase in warranty claims etc etc.
     
  6. GSB

    GSB Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

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    When the dealer plugs your car in to do a guided fault finding session, a data dump for the cars systems is passed back to the fatherland and analysed. If it detects a remap / tune / parameters fiddled with that are no longer how they were when it left the factory, then a TD1 (or one of a handful of others) flag is set, and your power train warranty is voided.
     
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  7. Rob2k68

    Rob2k68 Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    My dealer asked the same question when I took it in for a second service. When I replied that 'you'll need a bigger piece of paper than that' to write them down on she just wrote 'no'.

    Maybe she thought I was joking LoL anyway on collection the only thing they pointed out was that the tyres were the incorrect size which makes sense now I'm running 19s.
     
  8. Psyman79

    Psyman79 Sarcasm is hard on a forum ;)

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    Just been in to pick car up and asked again about this. I was told that they ask just incase they need to do a software update as it has the chance to reset any maps. Seems as though a couple of customers have had maps wiped when in for service.

    Si :)
     
  9. jassyo06

    jassyo06 T-Cut King !

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    Glasgow Audi asked me if my car had been modified or remapped, when l was considering ordering a facelift car probably because they wouldn't have kept it on there forecourt to sell it if it had been
     
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  10. Daveotto

    Daveotto Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    They did not pick up that the wheels were also a different size then
     
  11. Rob2k68

    Rob2k68 Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    LoL No !!
     
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  13. Daveotto

    Daveotto Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Hope you asked them to reclaibrate your speedo for the new tyre/wheel size :)
     
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  14. jassyo06

    jassyo06 T-Cut King !

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    Maybe after they opened up the bonnet of @Rob2k68 car......they were kinda dumb struck lol and from then on in,the size of wheels where irrelevant
     
  15. jassyo06

    jassyo06 T-Cut King !

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    Think @Rob2k68 car defies the laws of Audi S3 physics anyway mate..... Calibration of the speedo is pointless lol
     
  16. Rob2k68

    Rob2k68 Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    Mods ?? What mods ?? .....
    IMG_3696.JPG
     
  17. jassyo06

    jassyo06 T-Cut King !

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    MattSedg and Rob2k68 like this.
  18. Ross-s3

    Ross-s3 Registered User

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    Anytime you want to sell that engine bay to me ;) monies waiting lol
     
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  19. Ross-s3

    Ross-s3 Registered User

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    TD1 only detectable when a software comparison is done, a technician manual has to do this - would only be checked on say diagnosis of a fault where software version was needed to be checked and if a recall with SVM is needed. I think people think as soon as Audi plug there car in it's there, like a fault code,coming from a Audi technician a lot are very detectable!
     
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  20. MikeParkin

    MikeParkin Registered User

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    F**k Audi they are useless, mines not going back at all. I'd rather pay out my own pocket and get an independent to sort it.
     
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  21. Marky-s3

    Marky-s3 Registered User

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    I'm with you, you pay to play I hope audi never see my car again since the pdi
     
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  22. terminator x

    terminator x Registered User

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    There is a TB1 flag too apparently for tuning boxes.

    TX.

    Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk
     
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  23. Ross-s3

    Ross-s3 Registered User

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    Bad dealer experience?
     
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  24. Marky-s3

    Marky-s3 Registered User

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    Not really I have no trust in any dealerships you pay premium for work and it's carried out by kids usually or someone that would prefer not to be there id preferably do it myself but because of a stamp I'll use a decent specialist and they won't supply free swirls either lol
     
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  25. oldoiler

    oldoiler Registered User

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    It's also related to the cars warranty!! Because it's a get out clause and has a VAG it's been policy for at least 5 years


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  26. simonali

    simonali Guest

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    You fitted 19" tyres to 18" wheels?
     
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  27. makelja

    makelja Registered User

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    Is there any more information of the TB1 flag? I was planning to get a tuning box but if this is true just have to pass on it.
     
  28. oldoiler

    oldoiler Registered User

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    Shoudnt pick it up if you remove box and replace with the "blanking plug" supplied then refit after service


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  29. GSB

    GSB Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

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    Quoting myself here, from an old thread;


    "VAG have built and installed computers in a humble hatchback that can actually drive the car down the road, follow lanes, stop the car in traffic, find and drive into a parking space, hit the brakes if a pedestrian walks out in front of you, and bail you out of a terminal skid when you run out of talent.

    This is a level of sophistication that would have been considered impossible 10 years ago, yet people are still being led to believe that it's possible to run boost, fuel and ignition parameters way outside of normal and that Audi won't notice.

    [if you have a power train issue or failure] The dealer has to upload a data dump from the car, or VAG won't cover their warranty costs. This means that VAG's mainframe gets to analyse every car that comes in for engine or driveline warranty work, and it will flag up any anomalies. The human element of detection and dealer discretion has largely been removed. With the increasing sophistication of these systems (and let's face it, VAG is at the cutting edge in this field) the chances of you grenading a tuned engine and pulling the wool over VAG's eyes by taking things off the car or reflashing is nil.

    Tune it if you want to, but do it with your eyes open and beware any tuner telling you their product is "undetectable" or telling you they've "never heard of a problem". It's complete tosh. If it goes bang you'll be paying for the new engine and/or gearbox. We're not talking about slapping on a pair of DCOE40's and a big exhaust anymore. The days when you could tune it, break it, revert back to stock and defraud Audi or any other maker into giving you a fresh engine are long gone."


    Essentially, you take your chances;

    IF you have an issue, and IF Audi detect it, your powertrain warranty is gone, and you get a big bill, if you're lucky...

    The chances of the 1st IF are random, but your odds of a failure are greatly increased if you tune the car. The chances of the 2nd IF are unknown, but let's face it, with the increasing levels of technical prowess at play in these systems and Audi's general disapproval of tinkering, even if the chances of detection are slim now, they certainly aren't going to get slimmer. Recorded parameters rarely lie, and if you're the ecu records that you've been running a million psi of boost, with injector duty cycles nearly maxed out, and EGT's in the high supernova range, then suspicions are going to be raised. Add a gearbox recording a million newton metres at 1500rpm, and it doesn't take Ingolstadts brightest engineer or gigafloppiest mainframe to figure out that the car hasn't been exhibiting 'typical' behaviour.

    There's a 3rd and 4th IF to consider too;

    3/ If the car is leased, on Audi HP or PCP, then it's not yours to tune. The act of tuning it renders your finance agreement null and void. So, when you present your broken car to the dealer with that "what's going on 'ere? look slapped all over your Chevy Chase"*, and they decide it's your own fault, they will do 2 things. First, they will present you with a massive bill for the repair, and second, they will present you with an even bigger bill for the outstanding finance you owe.

    4/ (again quoting myself)

    "Should you decide to tune it, blow it up, and then try to remove the evidence of the tuning by way of resetting it back to stock before presenting the car to Audi for repair under warranty, then that is not the act of a cheeky chappie just trying it on. Its a criminal act. Specifically its an offence under the Fraud Act (2006), with potential overlaps into the Theft Act (1978). There are a number ways that these acts may be applied. They can for instance be used to charge you with mutilple offences, including, but certainly not limited to;

    Obtaining services dishonestly
    Fraud by failing to disclose information
    Fraud by false representation

    These carry custodial sentences..."

    Just something to bear in mind.

    Personally, despite tuning almost every car I've ever owned, I just don't think the extra power is worth the risk of a cascading clusterfuck of bad things happening if it goes wrong. It'd probably be fine, but if it goes tits up, it'd end up having been cheaper to buy an R8.


    *Watching 'Lock Stock' at the moment. Sorry...
     
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  30. terminator x

    terminator x Registered User

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    Has it ever "gone wrong" though @GSB

    TX.

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  31. GSB

    GSB Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

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    Oh good lord yes.

    Naturally, most people don't tend to post on owners forums how they've just been fisted by their dealer, but there's still a good number of examples, including one member here who was recently informed his warranty was toast and his ECU flagged when he had his Haldex coupling repaired.

    A friend of mine had his claim for a failed gearbox denied when the inspecting engineer noted his exhaust and intake mods, and went hunting for the inevitable chip. Just recently I helped a chap who's failed cylinder head claim was denied, and despite that car being bone stock, Audi still put up a fight. And then there's this poor deluded and ignorant fool, who infamously pushed his luck a bit far with sister VAG brand SEAT;

    This morning, Seat UK formally confirmed that the car's warranty on the ECU and Engine is void. They are not prepared to investigate the matter any further, believeing the REVO code, and that alone is the cause of the ECU's inability to communicate with the rest of the car, and VAGCOM. Furthermore, they have cancelled the breakdown assistance for the vehicle too, as it has been substantially altered outside of the original spec. They said that any further breakdown on the car is highly unlikley going to be atributed to the OE hardware in the car, and is due to the engine running outside of the recommended spec.

    The vehice is under a contracted finance agreement also, and they also believe I have broken the terms of that contract, and have demanded payment in full within 28 days for the outstanding balance, or the goods returned to them in original condition (fair wear and tear excluded). I have asked for written proof of this by Friday.

    They have also cancelled and taken back the hire car. [​IMG]

    The guys at VagTech were present when this was all being discussed with the suited chap from Seat who was there this afternoon, and explained to him how none of the cars electricts ect were touched, but the person from Seat wasn't bothered. While he was there, they built a test bench with the aid of Carl from REVO to see if ECU info can be pulled up from it when it is removed from the vehicle.

    As he expected, when the ECU is taken out the car, it did function correctly. This would lead to a wireing fault, but he said it's a needle in a haystack situation. And they also confirmed that no wires were touched during the IC installation. Seat still refuse to believe this.

    Despite the fact that there is no longer a warrenty on this 9 month old car, Seat have instructed VagTech to stop carrying out work on the ECU, as it's their property! A few choice words from myself and the guys at VagTech were exchanged, then the Seat person left.

    The instruction was then given to strip ALL modifications from the vehicle.
     
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  32. RAF_S7

    RAF_S7 Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

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    The whole issue of TD1 is a minefield, and one where most of the aftermarket tuners appear to be sticking their head in the sand rather than be open and honest with their customers. Lets face it, if your offered a £1k ECU stage 1 upgrade for your Audi, that promises to make it go faster, and drive better, and your also told that it will invalidate any drivetrain warranty and that Audi will wash their hands of you, and could demand outstanding finance or reclaim the vehicle, what would you do?

    The majority of ECU tuning is mainly driven from the USA, where there is a layer of consumer law which protects car owners in the event that something goes wrong. In the USA, the onus shifts to the manufacturer to prove that an aftermarket modification has directly caused an issue which could result in a warranty claim being rejected. We don't have that level of consumer protection in the UK.

    For now Ive limited myself to some cosmetic changes, a custom exhaust, and an easier way to control my air suspension and stayed away from anything related to ECU tuning, and thats the way it will stay for now. If an aftermarket ECU tuner wants starts offering drivetrain warranties with their modifications then I may change my mind. (Im aware of Racechips offering - but its so cheap Im wary of quality)

    The bottom line is that if you want to play with ECU tuning, you better be prepared to pay-up when things go wrong.:racer:
     
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  34. Tom.H

    Tom.H Registered User

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    I can't understand why Audi don't offer something like Ford do with Mountune.

    I'm sure if Audi offered a remap for people that kept all warranty (even if it meant the car was in effect mapped to 350bhp at the factory then 'de-tuned' to 300bhp and they just open it back up for say £600 without everyone knowing that's how it's done) they'd make a fair bit of money. I for one would definitely have it done knowing it's all above board.
     
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  35. RAF_S7

    RAF_S7 Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

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    Audi USA started down this route with a company called Stasis, and although initially successful, Audi subsequently pulled the relationship, ultimately leading to the demise of the company.

    It was never going to be a marriage made in heaven, except perhaps for the Audi customers who purchased their products.

    If you were an Audi dealer, selling a choice of products across the A/S/RS/RS+ range, and customers could by an S level car, and by spending say $5000 on some tuning products end up with RS levels of performance, without buying the RS car, I can see why Audi would be nervous about shooting themselves in the foot....
     
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  36. Tom.H

    Tom.H Registered User

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    I think the best bet would be to make sure the power level doesn't match that of an RS model, say the new FL S3 is 310bhp, an Audi remap takes it to 350bhp, the RS3 will be 400bhp out of the box, an Audi remap taking it to say 450bhp.

    Guess then though there's the issue of an S3/RS3 being near on S4/RS4 performance, albeit a different platform.
     
  37. RAF_S7

    RAF_S7 Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

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    And thats really the crux of the problem. Audi invest $$$$ in platform development, and someone comes along and puts a £500 box on a lesser model, and suddenly sales of the enhanced model are dwindling.
     
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  38. batch

    batch Registered User

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    RAF - have you looked at the MTM M-Cantronic? Full drivetrain cover!
     
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  39. Ofarlig

    Ofarlig Registered User

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    Even over here in Sweden I got asked about mods and tunes last time I handed it in to Audi, did not get asked last year.

    Over here it is even worse to tune though as it is illegal to change the power specifications of the car to begin with, which means the insurance company can claim your policy to be void in case of a crash. Does not stop people from doing it of course but it adds extra risk in the mix.
     
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  40. DJAlix

    DJAlix VAG Car Coding™ Limited Site Sponsor Gold Supporter VCDS Map User VAG Can Professional ODIS (Offboard Diagnostic System)

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    Looks like "verbal" engine mod checking is a standard procedure for Audi now. Logged in to the deal portal today in order to check on current technical bulletins and found this attached to the bottom of all of them:

    IMG_8664-squashed.JPG
     
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