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AO09 NNN Audi RS3 Project

Aoon_M Apr 6, 2016

  1. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

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    The RS3 achieved 10.99 @ 130.9mph at Santa Pod which sets a new world record for the 8V RS3. With special thanks to MRC Tuning & D.H Automotive and everyone else involved in the build. It’s been a long time coming!

    2016 Audi RS3
    APR Stage 3 kit with Honeywell Garrett GTX3582r gen 1 turbocharger
    TiAL Sport .63 AR
    TiAL Sport MVS-32 water cooled waste gate
    MRC Tuning ECU and TCU calibrations
    20” OZ Racing Dakar alloys
    Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tyres
    R8 GT Carbon Ceramic braking system
    Full weight + little extra
    99 octane + nf
    APR Cast downpipe
    APR HPFP
    Wagner Tuning EVO 3 intercooler
    MSS Spring Kits
    034Motorsport mounts
    Stock DQ500
    Stock engine
    Stock catback
    Stock intake

     
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  3. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately due to it being VW Action weekend, I only managed to run twice and the times were 11.2 and then 10.99 (just as it started raining)

    Overall its a good time that I'm over the moon with, as you can see in the video the traction control system interfered quite badly and cut my throttle which gave me one of the poorest 60ft times in all my drag racing history..

    More to come for sure.

    21231651_1445540372232001_3257507227483963803_n.jpg
     
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  4. dunes7

    dunes7 Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi RS3

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    How do you overcome the traction control interfering, simply switch it off altogether or does it help anywhere else on the run?
     
  5. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

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    The traction control was fully off, but in reality it is never fully off. Something I need to work on.

    The reality is I need more strip time, the car will never act like this on the road. When it detects sudden amount of spin on the track it cuts the throttle to prevent the wheels going into wheelspin, the throttle cut is a bummer. Slows me down big time as the turbo has to re spool. Its the equivelant of taking your foot off the throttle then going again.. That bad.

    A fully prepped damp track with cold road tyres is just no good. I launch much better on the road, 1.7 60 fts
     
  6. dunes7

    dunes7 Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi RS3

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    Blimey - It's frightening to think how much quicker you would have gone then if everything had of been in your favour (I am a big fan of John Force :))
     
  7. D0C

    D0C Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team Panther Audi RS3 TTRS

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    Incredible effort. Although I thought off meant off in the RS3 with regards to traction control. An easy fix, I'm sure.
     
  8. mikemcaulay91

    mikemcaulay91 New Member

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    [​IMG]

    Stock intake..?
     
  9. MartayMcFly

    MartayMcFly Booooooost VCDS Map User Gold Supporter

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    Are you going to be at Crail this weekend?
     
  10. dunes7

    dunes7 Well-Known Member Team Daytona Audi RS3

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    Is that the down hill drag strip?
     
  11. jimojameso

    jimojameso Active Member Team Nardo Section Mod Audi RS3 TTRS

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    Think he sold that intake a while ago. Great achievement. 10 second car!
     
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  13. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

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    Yeah :)

    The 034 is no longer on my car as I have something else in the works. Wasn't ready for VW action weekend though!

    Its a maybe!

    LOL the very one
     
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  14. steve-tt

    steve-tt Member

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    Stock engine,blimey lol
     
  15. steve-tt

    steve-tt Member

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    I was getting exactly that at inters back in June!
     
  16. patrice-45 france

    patrice-45 france Member

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    Hi Aoon_M , your RS3 is a very nice project . i am a fan of your RS3 .
    Bye. Patrice
     
  17. mk44mo

    mk44mo New Member

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    So where does your ordering of a TTRS leave the RS3?? If you swap the engines will you sell the pre-do 8V with an alu engine?
     
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  18. Ja5on

    Ja5on Member

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    Aoon where you at glasgow audi today?

    I was in chatting to them about a new RS3 and was pretty sure I saw your car
     
  19. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

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    @patrice-45 france Thank you!!

    @Ja5on I was mate! Should've said hello,

    @mk44mo A TTRS with a pre facelift iron block engine inside of it... Now thats something only someone as crazy as me would do right?

    Updates soon guys. Have something in the works.

    I've also been trialling out the new Eventuri intake and have ran some tests against stock and 034 back to back, results are very promising and it addresses the niggles with the 034 intake. The Eventuri intake is a good one! I'll get a write up on as soon as I get the chance to clear this uni work.

    Also, I am a lot more active on Instagram than this forum due to ease of use. My username is @Aoon_M feel free to give me a follow, ask questions about the car etc and I will be happy to aid in any way I can.

    There is so much stuff I need to update on here just don't get much time.

    In the meantime guys, check out this video *awaits haters*

     
  20. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

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    Okay so first up..

    Keyfob..

    Got bored of my A3 key fob so shot @DJAlix a message and we found out what could be done. Well this is what we ended up with;



    Comparison below of a key with panic button and without :)
    21390201_1448546778598027_2107340290_o.jpg

    Audi TTRS key fob coded to an RS3 8V! Now ain't that cool.

    Unfortunately, there is a very particular process that you need to go through to get this key but it can be done which is sweet. Simply put I can supply and Alex can code it to the car :). Thanks to Alex for taking some time out to do this, its a niche but sweet mod.
     
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  21. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

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    Got myself a set of these.. Facelift RS3 Design Pack matts.

    I already have the design pack on my car but on the pre fl car the background is white, looks smarter in black.

     
  22. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

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    Okay so I want to talk about intakes, throughout my ownership I've trialled out four different intake systems for the RS3 8V.

    My very first intake was the PPH-Motoring intake pipe, this intake retains the stock airbox however has a modified outlet on the box and is comprised of one 90mm ceramic coated steel pipe, I didn't keep this intake for long as I am not a fan of putting heat retaining steel pipes above the turbocharger.. Not sure what the ceramic coating on the pipe is supposed to do either, I'm no expert in thermodynamics but surely the ceramic coating is going to keep the heat in? To be clear, the outside of the pipe is ceramic coated, not the inside..

    I bought this intake at the time because nothing else was available. Would I recommend it to anyone? No... I think it is very poor bang for buck and the outside being ceramic coated is questionable. The fittament is poor. There is no intake noise at all and is very stock like.


    Screen Shot 2017-09-20 at 02.34.40.png

    Next up is the 034 Motorsports Intake. This is an interesting one, as I was heavily involved in its development. I seen 034's option for the RS3 8P & TTRS 8J and after my disappointment with the PPH I straight away messaged Laszlo @ 034, shipped off my spare air box to the USA. 6 slow months and 3 rapid prototypes later this turned up.

    034mott7149.1280.1280.jpg

    I ran this intake throughout all my tuning sessions @ MRC Tuning and it was faultless, its a stunning intake, perfect fittament, I think it has been a great option and has plenty of induction noises. But for me, it was not perfect and I had my own gripes with it which not everyone may consider to be theirs.

    First and foremost and you probably seen this coming is the open cone design in the engine bay. When we done all the power runs @ MRC tuning we always do them with bonnet open for best case scenario where this intake will shine, with the bonnet closed it is truly questionable how much the intake is going to be affected by radiant heat from the engine bay, the 2.5tfsi engine runs extremely hot and blows a lot of hot air through the charge piping system, so anything at all you can do to make things cooler in there is going to show gains and I can assure you of this. This is why meth kits are really popular. I just don't see enough airflow coming in from the front ducting on the car for it to start rejecting the surrounding radiant heat. Who knows if any cool air is going in there at all with the bonnet closed due to pressure drop variances outside the bonnet vs inside, you get the idea. This open cone design also lets a lot of sand and grit and dust in and around the engine bay and into the airbox, some may not care as they never open the bonnet, but with my car being at shows etc all the time I value the cleanliness of my engine bay and this can get very annoying very quickly.

    Another issue (for me) with this intake is that it necks down at the turbo elbow to around 76mm from memory, it is designed this way so it is a nice and easy install and has clearly been created for the stock/hybrid turbocharger market. The issue this causes me is that when running a big turbo kit, most of the kits on market allow you to retain 90mm right up until the turbo. So with this intake I am pointlessly creating a 76mm restriction when I would rather retain 90mm right up until the turbo.

    The filter pod in my opinion is too small for anything over 550hp. I have witnessed the cone starting to collapse under pressure when on a dyno cell, fortunately there is a solution for this though. We big turbo users change the supplied filter to a k&n direct fit replacement which is almost double the size.. I'll try and find the part number for it.

    Another issue.. There is loads of turbo noise with this intake, you won't hear anymore with another intake. Thats for sure. It sounds awesome at full chat. You can hear everything. Literally! On a cold start cycle though the engine operates its tumble flaps in order to reduce emissions and aid the cold start, (its like the "choke" on an engine from what I understand) well when this happens with this intake installed you can hear it going on inside the cabin and its such an odd and loud noise that it makes the car sound broken. Best way I can explain it is that it sounds like a hurricane going on inside the intake manifold lol. This can get annoying.

    Next up is the Arma intake, in pictures this intake looks promising, nice huge air filter, enclosed box but was a huge let down to me. Again the inlet pipe is only 76mm leading up to the turbo elbow, I found this intake to be very poor quality and poor fittament. I think I removed it after a week as it didn't sit well with me at all, it is just too expensive for what you actually get and the quality of the materials.

    ARMA-Carbon-Intake-Audi-RS3-8V-2.jpg


    Okay so save the best for last and all that.. Eventuri.

    So a lot of my friends have BMW's and I spend a lot of time around M3's and M4's, I noticed Eventuri intakes on an M4 at some point last year, and was absolutely blown away by the attention to detail on this intake. You need to actually take a look at it to see what I mean.

    http://www.eventuri.net/products/bmw-f8x-m3m4/

    There is so much going on with this intake, it is literally intake art and I don't think anyone would disagree with me. The attention to detail is unbelievable. The way it scoops air in from the grill is just unreal. Made me want to get an M4 just to put that intake on it! So I followed them from this point on.

    Right well fast forward to December last year and Eventuri posted up a picture of an RS3 they had in for development, this got me super excited so I emailed them asking about info on the intake and pointed out what I felt were the key issues with the intakes in the market at the time. A month later they posted up a picture of a prototype intake, my heart sank as I saw 90mm from the filter pod gradually going to 76mm to mate at the turbo elbow.

    15380413_781015225372029_5661182316439575220_n.jpg

    Well when this happened, I pointed this out to them at the time but lost interest in the intake. Right so 7 months later a friend sends me a picture of their final design and asks when I'm buying one..

    [​IMG]

    Their final design got me very excited again, straight away key points that I could see was;

    Enclosed design
    Nice large air inlet scoop
    Full carbon (I'm a sucker for carbon)
    90 mm all the way from filter to turbo elbow - this was the no brainer for me.
    To me and in the pictures the filter element looked a bit small. More on that later.

    Fired off an email to Eventuri to be put down on their pre order list and showed my power user appreciation for addressing the issues shown on the other intakes.

    Right so it finally turned up and everything from the packaging to the actual intake is epic and you truly get what you pay for. The intake is double packed so its like unpacking a playstation!

    The carbon fibre used is nice and thick, feels really good in your hands and feels like a quality part, Out of all the intakes the Arma was probably the worst for the way it felt in your hand, felt like plastic.. This intake goes 90mm from the filter pod up to the turbo elbow without any obstructions, it necks down to 76mm via a silicon reducer for stock/hybrid turbos. For power users you simply change the silicon reducer from 90-76 to 90-90. I'm sure Eventuri will maybe make this an option on their site.

    The filter pod on this intake is interesting, its like a reverse filter pod and this is why it looks small in pictures as its an illusion. Its hard to explain, but its a reverse cone with a smaller cone inside of it. Like a "W". Going to attach their CFD from the Golf R intake to give you an idea of wants going on in the filter housing.


    I've tried to understand as much as I can about this pod as its like nothing else in the market.

    From what I can tell, on a conventional intake cone where the air has to make a sharp 90 degree turn from the surface area on the filter to the inlet tube is where issues arise and can make the car feel "laggier" off boost. Peak airflow increases due to the less restrictive filter element but the disruptive flow disturbs the car off boost. This is something I experienced with the 034 intake, but I didn't actually realise how much it affected the car off boost until I stuck the stock intake back on the car. Car instantly felt sharper off boost.

    Below is a CFD from 034 Motorsports, looks fantastic but there is something missing on the CFD which is the air actually entering the filter. The air enters the tube at 90 degrees so the air is in theory turning a sharp corner as soon as it gets inside the filter. All intakes in the market do this, which is why the Eventuri filter design is interesting.

    [​IMG]

    According to Eventuri, on their intake " the funnel-shaped housing invokes the Venturi effect where the smooth reduction in cross-sectional area along the length of the housing causes the airflow to increase in velocity. Essentially the ENTIRE housing acts as a velocity stack. On the road – this translates not only to more power but smoother delivery and a sharper throttle response as the airflow is not inhibited by abrupt geometry changes and so is more likely to remain laminar."

    Overall, I think this is a really good intake and its the best available for the car just now, it suits power users well and non power users at the same time. The materials are good and the fitting is spot on, this doesn't suffer from the tumble flap noises like the 034 does, but there is plenty of pure intake noise which is sweet. It deals with all the issues I had with the 034 intake and is a quality product. If I was being picky, I don't like the silver coloured clamps on this intake as I feel it spoils the look, they need to be black (I'm hard work I know!). So I will likely change mine to black, Other than that, I can't fault it.


    So enough about the design, I am a data guy. I've logged the 034, Eventuri and stock (for curiosity mainly) back to back against each other and done some real world testing between all three.

    Tests include;

    100-200km/h vbox testing
    Airflow at any given rpm in g/s
    RPM at which each intake spools the turbo at/RPM at which target boost is acheived
    Wastegate duty cycle

    I did not log intake air temperatures as I do not feel there is an accurate way to me to measure them. The temperature sensors are on the throttle body and intake manifold so any differences would be unmeasurable due to their being an intercooler.. If you are wondering then why is radiant heat on the 034 is an issue is because in short hot air is less dense, you would be decreasing the efficiency of the turbo by feeding it hot air.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
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  23. J_3_f_f

    J_3_f_f New Member

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    Had no idea eventuri made intake for Audi. Had it for M3 and it is a pure carbon porn. I hope they make one for FL RS3. Thanks for your feedback on the intakes!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  24. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

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    From what I can see and have been told, the facelift RS3 intake will be ready late October, The pre facelift and facelift RS3 share a lot of parts, the air box and duct is identical - only the tube above the filter differs, so it won't be far away.
     
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  25. J_3_f_f

    J_3_f_f New Member

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    That is an awesome news. I am jealous of my buddies' M2 eventuri intake sounds. They just sound awesome. Hoping FL RS3 intake will sound just as awesome.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  26. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Well-Known Member Team Racing Blue Mica Audi RS3 quattro Sportback

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    @Aoon_M would you recommend an Intake for a standard FL RS3? I won't be mapping mine any time soon, is this a must to improve the car overall anyway?

    I've noticed just how small the intake pipe is on the FL.
     
  27. D0C

    D0C Well-Known Member Team Nardo Team Panther Audi RS3 TTRS

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    Can't see how it would be worth it for you? I've no idea but it'll likely be a £1000+ with fitting. Imagine if it was on the Audi options list... "carbon fibre intake - £1000". It would be an option you'd be leaving well alone. Sure, along with a load of other mods it may make sense, but if I was you I'd be spending that money elsewhere on the car first.
     
  28. RS-Basti

    RS-Basti New Member

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  29. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

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    @RS-Basti you can have it enlarged to 90mm for 8P/8J cars, not 8V unfortunately
     
  30. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Well-Known Member Team Racing Blue Mica Audi RS3 quattro Sportback

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    I’m thinking to increase induction noise and any small gain is welcome. But yes Cost is definitely something to consider.

    I think the car will end up having MSS Springs no doubt, although my demo didn’t look high.
     
  31. p9lad

    p9lad Member

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    where did you get these from and how much were they?
     
  32. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

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    PM me
     
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  34. Leo-RS

    Leo-RS Well-Known Member

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    Price point will be key on this, full carbon is likely to make this cost prohibitive.

    Nice work though Aoon, do you have the results of your logged comparisons to share?
     
  35. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

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    I have all the logs to hand, hoping to upload my analysis tonight :)
     
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  36. Asif

    Asif Member

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    How much is the TTRS key fob. Would love that modification. Hate how old our keys look.
     
  37. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

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    Around £300 Asif
     
  38. RS-Basti

    RS-Basti New Member

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  39. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

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  40. neg

    neg Active Member

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    Can I ask what width you OZ's are? And what size tyres your running and if any rubbing issues or mods made to make them fit OK?

    Assuming your still on the spring too.

    Thanks


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  41. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

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    Stock intake vs 034 intake vs Eventuri intake (real data logging)

    To wrap up the post on the available intakes above, I went out and made some of my own data logs to see what was really going on with each intake.

    I'll try and keep this as simple as possible

    The parameters I logged were as follows;

    Wastegate duty cycle - the wastegate on a turbocharger controls the amount of boost your turbo is going to make. It does this by venting excess exhaust gasses out of the turbocharger and bypassing the turbine when needed, by venting the exhaust gasses before they spin the turbine, the turbo will make less or no boost. 0% means that it will run on spring pressure, and create the least amount of boost your wastegate is setup for. This is usually around 0.6bar. 100% waste gate duty cycle means that it'll try and create as much boost as the turbo possibly can, if the waste gate is strong enough it'll make an infinite amount of boost and likely blow the turbo.

    In simple terms the wastegate duty cycle figure is telling you how much of your turbo you are using.

    So when an ECU requests 1.6 bar of boost, the ECU will automatically continue closing the wastegate until you hit 1.6 bar using closed loop boost control.

    Now this is where the efficiency of your setup comes in. A turbo is a pump, say you need 70% of your pump to make 1.6 bar of pressure, if you can remove any bottle necks before the turbo (intakes) or after the turbo (downpipes, exhausts) you will increase the efficiency of the pump. By increasing the efficiency of your pump you are decreasing heat straight away and you are assisting the pump by placing it into its usable efficiency range (look up compressor maps for more info).

    By comparing wastegate duty cycle from one intake to another, we are able to see if one intake is working the turbo harder compared to another. We want the waste gate duty cycle to be as low as possible to hit target boost pressure. The lower it is the, less heat will be created, more efficient your setup will be and more turbo is left on the table for when you go in for a mapping session.

    Logs below have been done in 5th gear, wide open throttle with 10C ambient temperates using a sample rate of 8x which is the max VCDS will allow for now.

    Lets start with the STOCK intake.

    In the chart below, we can see until the car hits requested boost pressure of 1.6 bar, waste gate duty cycle (orange line) is 100%. Once it hits 1.6 bar, it immediately drops to 65.2% @ 3540rpm (grey line)
    Screen Shot 2017-09-24 at 00.20.39.png

    Once again in the chart below, we can follow the orange line and see how it is dynamically changing to maintain target boost of 1.6 bar. The waste gate duty cycle is 74.59% @ 7139 rpm.
    Screen Shot 2017-09-24 at 00.23.28.png

    Next up, 034 Motorsports intake

    In the chart below, we can see until the car hits requested boost pressure of 1.6 bar, waste gate duty cycle (green line) is 100%. Once it hits 1.6 bar, it immediately drops to 62.1% @ 3603rpm (grey line)
    Screen Shot 2017-09-24 at 00.38.21.png

    Again, below we can follow the green line and watch how it controls the wastegate to maintain target boost of 1.6 bar. The waste gate duty cycle is 64.5% @ 7158 rpm.
    Screen Shot 2017-09-24 at 00.40.40.png

    We see above that when comparing stock to the 034, on the lower end of the scale it increases efficiency by 3.1% and by 10.09% in the upper end of the scale. A marginal improvement in the lower end and excellent improvement at redline which is what should be expected with this intake.

    Now last up is the Eventuri for the wastegate duty cycle test. I was genuinely curious if a sealed intake like the Eventuri could improve on the 034 intake which is in theory best case scenario style of intake with its open cone allowing as much air to be sucked in as possible. When you think about it, the Eventuri would struggle as it needs to suck air in from the duct which involves more effort, whereas the 034 can suck air in from anywhere.


    So in the lower end, the duty cycle with the Eventuri intake installed is 59.4%
    Screen Shot 2017-09-24 at 00.55.20.png

    And upper end showing 64.09%
    Screen Shot 2017-09-24 at 00.56.51.png


    The above tests show us the following;

    Stock 65.2/74.59
    034 62.1/64.5
    Eventuri 59.4/64.09

    The stock intake clearly struggles in flow throughout the rev range where as the 034 substantially increases efficiency in the upper range of the rev band, the Eventuri intake matches the 034 in upper range but goes one step further and improves efficiency by 5.8% in lower range and 10.5% in the upper. These numbers are huge when talking about turbo compressor duty maps and will allow your tuner to exploit the turbo that much more before it starts blowing hot air due to inefficiency.


    Next lets do some 100-200km/h VBOX comparisons, all tests again completed at 10C ambient temps and a full tank of Tesco Momentum each time.

    Stock intake first, we ran around 6 runs on each intake and used the two best figures for this test. These times have been corrected for slope for maximum accuracy. You are looking at the Korr.(s) column.

    Screen Shot 2017-09-17 at 03.53.37.png

    Eventuri next - instantly an improvement of half a second, this is absolutely massive in 100-200 testing. Those who know will know!

    Screen Shot 2017-09-17 at 03.54.28.png

    034 next
    Screen Shot 2017-09-24 at 01.27.41.png


    Eventuri comes out on top once again.

    I've used the same style of data logging to compare spool between the three intakes.

    Stock intakes shows that at 3450rpm, the car is making 2547mbar of boost (atmospheric) with a mass air flow rate of 718 g/s
    Screen Shot 2017-09-24 at 01.55.51.png

    Eventuri shows 2667mbar of boost being created at 3450rpm with a mass air flow rate of 754 g/s. The Eventuri is making around 0.1 bar of boost at the same rpm when compared to stock, this is what you want and what many other intakes lack. Spool of the turbo is how laggy the turbo feels on the road.
    Screen Shot 2017-09-24 at 01.56.07.png


    Now I will show you the 034 which backs up my feelings of it being laggier than the stock intake...

    034 creates 2521mbar of boost at 3450rpm which is lower than the stock intake and this shows us the Eventuri style filter housing we spoke about earlier in action against other conventional intakes. Screen Shot 2017-09-24 at 02.04.13.png

    These figures may sound small to you, but when you take into consideration a turbo only runs around 1.6 bar of boost, 0.1 bar of gain upon spool is a lot.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
  42. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Well-Known Member Team Racing Blue Mica Audi RS3 quattro Sportback

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    Love it! Very interesting read, nice to get a better understanding of what’s going on.
     
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  43. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Well-Known Member

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    Haha, you're too fast! I've just updated the post again!
     
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