AO09 NNN Audi RS3 Project

[Aoon_M]

So my new toy has finally arrived, I tend to get carried away when tinkering with cars and the plan with this is to go TTE500.

Previous project threads - Audi TTS, Mercedes-Benz A45 AMG

And so it begins,

Picked it up on the 17/03/16 from Glasgow Audi. Nardo grey with pretty much all bells & whistles.. Bar pano roof, but that slows you down anyway

First impressions - WOW this thing sounds good, I can't get over it. Coming from fast 4 pots the sound of the RS3 really is just in its own league. Love it. Going to have a hard time running it in

I certainly don't waste any time, so it was time to void the warranty. Drove straight from dealership to a ramp to delete the secondary cats. I opted for Millteks offer for the RS3 8v, £160 shipped.

The stock secondary catalyst pipes weigh roughly 5kg each. Weight saving yo!

Something looks a bit 'off' with the cat delete pipes, I've got a feeling the one on the right isn't rotated to the correct angle. Not that it matters much anyway, I was in a hurry and we'll be back here in a few weeks to rid the primary cat.

So with the secondary cats now deleted, it sounds even more ballistic. Had to just pull over and clap for Quattro GmbH for the soundtrack they've created on this RS3, it's that good.

Next up: Forge intercooler which actually just arrived today, just need to find some spare time to get it fitted. It's going in to Incredible Detail on Monday for Gtechnique ceramic new car protection & A pillars, bumper bonnet & wings XPEL stone chip protection.

Awaiting delivery of: P3Cars VIDI boostguage, 034 rear rotor upgrade kit, 034 carbon fibre intake, primary cat delete downpipe.

Future plans: TTE500. Best get it ordered soon, 8 week wait on that snail

 

[Aoon_M]

Unboxed the P3Cars gauge, beautiful bit of kit.

The box - nothing to see here. Got bit £80 by customs though!! Ouch.

Inside the box you get an instruction manual, the gauge itself, the 'Control Box', OBD2 Connector, a P3Cars sticker and finally the optional 60psi analogue boost tap - for them big turbo builds

As you can see the attention to detail in this gauge is just epic. Once installed I'll get some pics up but you'd think its OEM.

 

[Aoon_M]

Paint protection film on the following:

Front bumper

Front bonnet
Grille

Both side wings

Headlights

Wing mirrors

A pillars

As for the bodywork and interior;

C1 and Exo on bodywork

C5 and Exo on wheels (coated in situ)
G1 on all windows
L1 on leather
L1 on fabric matts

What's better than one RS3?

He's also put my Raywell Design black badges on for me to save me faffing about with them and marking the paintwork.All black errthang

 

[Aoon_M]

Looks absolutely stunning, can't fault their work. Now that the detailing bits are done its time to get to work with modding it, few surprises this week, stay tuned!

 

[Aoon_M]

As promised, the modding has begun.

Forge Race Intercooler is now on the car. With the stock intercooler temperatures would sit up at around 25-30ºC above ambient on a spirited drive. After the Forge Race Intercooler install temperatures are now between 10-15ºC above ambient with the same driving style. This is by no means scientific, so take it with a pinch of salt. I have done some WOT runs and had them logged with VCDS though, I have the stock intercooler data to hand, just need to find some spare time and log the Forge Race Intercooler.

Below you can see the differences in core size and volume, the stock Intercooler is Silver, the Forge Race Intercooler is Black.

Some before, and after installation pictures.

It looks like santa came early, make that 9 months early.

My TTE500 has arrived, I got extremely lucky and managed to skip the 8-10 week lead time from TTE direct.

 

[Aoon_M]

Found some time to install the P3Cars boost gauge too. Very very easy install on this car, took me 20 minutes. No need to unscrew any panels.

 

[Aoon_M]

Soo guess what

APR UK phoned me today, they had a stage 1 non test pipe file ready for my car (still unavailable to the public, I don't know when it will be released so don't ask

). One thing lead to another anddd theres now 442 horses under my bonnet. It'll do for now I suppose.

My **** dyno says that the car is now nothing short of epic. On the road, it feels a much, much better car to drive and have that kind of power in. The soundtrack in the RS3 just pays for itself.

Throttle response is almost instantaneous now, feels a lot more eager to go and just pulls and pulls throughout the power band with no hesitation or 'restrictions' in the lower gears.



Figures don't mean much to me, I had 500ft/lbs in the A45 but you simply cannot compare it to the RS3 - RS3 is just in another league when it comes to drivability and use of the power band throughout the gears. A45 always felt restricted in gears 1-3, 4th gear is where it shined and I can say there isn't much in it 4th gear and above Stage 1 A45 vs Stage 1 RS3.



Now, before the forum police get here to remind me this is an 'RS3 Forum', let's move on.



A few things I noticed about the flash..



It is an OBDII port flash, so no need to remove the ECU for bench flashing, and for the warranty huggers, yes this map can be flashed back to stock to rid the holy TD1 flag. If flashed back to stock there is no dealer level detection, but for say your engine goes bang and there's a 20k bill on Audis head, your ECU will get sent to Audi UK in Milton Keynes and they will find out about your remap. With that out the way, lets move on.

There is now a hard cut limiter in every gear, for those of you who are unsure of what this means... Find an empty private road, shift gearstick to the left to come into full manual mode, start driving, change to second gear and just plant your foot. The RPM's will rise, some poo will come out and when the RPM's will reach 6800rpm the engine will sing to you. This is called a hard cut limiter. Now if you do the same in third gear, the engine will not sing to you. This is called a soft cut limiter. The APR Stage 1 remap enables a hard cut limiter in all gears, and it sounds magnificent under load in 4th gear.

Quick video of my car on the rollers today -









And low and behold, the money shot

-

Take a good look at the graph.. Wow right? Study the graph carefully, note how the torque peaks at 3200rpm and then settles down immediately. This is an indication of a software level torque limiter. In layman terms.. the true potential of this car has not been unlocked yet.



The graph above is of an RS3 8V with a Stage 1 APR map, a Forge Race Intercooler and Milltek secondary cat deletes. The Intercooler and secondary cat delete pipes gains are negligible as the stage 1 file is designed to be run on a stock motor. The intercooler at this level of tune will only add consistency by keeping the charge air temperatures down. My estimation is that Stage 2/Stage 2+ APR files will see 450-460bhp before the turbo runs out of sauce. Now if you take a look at the graph below, this proves my point. The graph below is of an RS3 8V 100% stock with no modifications whatsoever besides the APR stage 1 flash.

You may be wondering.. Impossible, I don't believe it.. 8P RS3 needs Stage 2+ modifications to reach more or less the same power levels.. The RS3 8v has the exact same turbo and engine as the 8P RS3...



Let me explain.. The 8P RS3 & the 8J TTRS are of the BOSCH MED 9.1.x family.


The ECU in this car is of the BOSCH MED 17.1.x family, the same ECU seen in the A45 AMG. The amount of boost control and fine level tuning this ECU offers is really something. As we've learned from A45 tuning, this ECU as Shaun says, and I quote "without going into a massive amount of detail, this ECU is one very powerful mofo. The amount of control it can have over how the engine performs is pretty mind blowing. The art of making the car “sing”, utilising/modifying the appropriate calibrations (there are well over 100,000 of these!) and ensuring you’re not hitting the protection tables (ultimately resulting in power being pulled down), is where the time and effort is needed."

 

[Aoon_M]

Unfortunately due to the sudden surprise APR phone call and remap, I didn't find any time to log the forge cooler on stock tune via vcds.

But in real world driving situations and 'anal' level monitoring with my P3 Cars Boost Gauge, temps are indeed just sitting at between 10 and 15 degrees above ambient which is pretty fantastic, the stage 1 flash file seems to have no affect on those temperatures vs stock.

Chris was nice enough to send me over some very geeky logs of the Forge Race Intercooler. The results speak for themselves and show us how high the charge air temperatures can get on the stock intercooler.



Again, an intercooler should never primarily be a peak horsepower modification.


You know how on a hot day your car feels really slow? Well yeah basically what an intercooler does is prevent heatsoak, when your intercooler gets hot it slows the car down as the air going into the engine is less dense.

Colder air = ultimately a faster car.

From experience an intercooler will give you consistency, if your car is 400 bhp the theory is your car will more or less always stay 400 bhp regardless of how hard you're driving it or how hot it is (to the point of no return of course). On a stock setup though if the intercooler gets heat soaked the engine will start pulling timing, you'd be lucky to have 350bhp after 3 or 4 WOT runs in this application.

On the two graphs below what we want to look at is the blue line plotted on the graph, against the corresponding x and y axis. Note how on the stock intercooler setup, temperatures rise up to 55°C @ for say 6800rpm when the air is at its hottest and car wants to make peak power. Same day, same car, same dyno and with the same ambient air temperatures installation of the Forge Race Intercooler drops the charge air temperatures by a very apparent 30°C @ 6800rpm.

Stock intercooler -

Forge Race Intercooler -

 

[Aoon_M]

I am now rocking the plateless look.

Note how I haven't removed the plastic plinth behind my grille.. Will be doing that this weekend hopefully to get even better cooling gains. Mess-up on my part!

My Milltek FULL decat pipes arrived today with my tuner (i think) with all going to plan I should be fitting them along with the plinth removal at some point tomorrow.

 

[Aoon_M]

Low and behold... Decat yo!

Again, I went for Millteks offering. The car is stupid loud in dynamic now. And sticking it back into comfort makes it sound like a 1.4. Lol. "What exhaust officer?"

The car has been back on the dyno again.. Forgot to get a dyno graph from the tuner, but at stage 1 power levels there was no power gain to be had. Interestingly on the road though the car feels punchier 4k rpm and above, and the dyno graph shows this somewhat. Will try and see if tuner can send me over the graph. Car ideally needs a stage 2 map now though to take advantage of the non restrictive exhaust.

The whole idea of removing the catalysts is to reduce the EGT (exhaust gas temperatures) and allows the turbo to boost higher, get higher EGT's without melting the cats.

 

[Aoon_M]

Okay so just to clear this up -

The Milltek FULL decat pipe (primary and secondary decat delete) will trigger an EML light unless mapped out.

The secondary decat pipes only will not trigger an engine management light in any case.



The car does not sound as good with the full decat pipes. The full decat pipes add a lot of unwanted noise as there is not enough resonance in the sports exhaust. The car sounds better with secondary only decat delete.

My plan is to go sports cat once I get the car back from MRC Tuning to get rid of the unwanted noise from the decat. The reason being, I see no reason whatsoever to change the stock catback on this car. This car has one of the most refined catback exhaust systems I've came across. After inspecting the catback on the weekend when it was dropped for decat fitting, I can see no potential restrictions in the exhaust setup either that will be detrimental to tuning. Until a company comes out with a catback that makes 30-40bhp power gains @ stage 3 power levels (which is not going to happen imo) the stock system is staying put on my car.



Valves open = straight through system with no resonance. Valves close = resonated system.


The APR stage 1 map file *at the moment* has not been tuned for a decat pipe, so it WILL trigger an engine management light. The APR Calibrators are working on a Stage 1 test pipe file as we speak to rid the EML.






Some updates -

My TTE500 turbo is being fitted on the 11th of April. Booked into MRC Tuning for the 23rd of April. So you could say things are beginning to get pretty serious! MRC plan on keeping the car for 1-2 weeks to perfect their tune.

My 034 motorsports carbon fibre intake has finally been dispatched, just in time to be fitted prior to stage 3 tuning. Will get some pictures up shortly.



The brakes on this car are horrendous. Trying to slow down from 'Autobahn' speeds and the car will snake horribly. Very scary. Interesting to note its more the back end that seems to be loose which causes the car to snake. This needs to be dealt with, in touch with Dave B @ Vagbremtechnic to see what he can do.

 

[elton121272]

Fantastic write up mate and some very interesting and well thoughts mods.

I'm in Glasgow too and have tinkered with mine so will keep an eye out for you - would be great to meet up and share a thought and pic or two ;-) especially after the turbo upgrade!

 

[Terminator x]

What mods are needed to go with the turbo as I'll probably do that in the 3rd year of ownership? Can you pls pm me the supply and fix price of the turbo if you don't mind.

TX.

 

[45bvtc]

If a bog standard RS3 ain't fast enough for you terminator x then you just ain't driving it hard enough and need to input more effort: demonstrated mine yesterday to a potential RS3 owner and he stood around for the following post-demo 50-minutes in utter disbelief - and me an OAP and I was just one handed paddle shifting UP and letting the downshifts do their own thing...

 

[Terminator x]

Ha Ha it is fast enough, for now

TX.

 

[Aoon_M]

Cost of the turbo is just a touch under £3000 and then the labour for fitting is 10-12 hours work so £500.

 

[Aoon_M]

Mods I'd imagine you would need intercooler and a decat/sports cat. MRC advise that the fuel pumps seem up to the job

 

[FBF01]

What a read!!!!!!!!! Absolute monster. Lucky man. Keep posting please. Love it

 

[Scottyg]

If a bog standard RS3 ain't fast enough for you terminator x then you just ain't driving it hard enough and need to input more effort: demonstrated mine yesterday to a potential RS3 owner and he stood around for the following post-demo 50-minutes in utter disbelief - and me an OAP and I was just one handed paddle shifting UP and letting the downshifts do their own thing...

I want to be you when I'm an OAP!

 

[45bvtc]

I want to be you when I'm an OAP!

Thank you, Scottyg; that a really nice thing to say and I really do appreciate it, thank you...

 

[RCD6FC]

Thank you, Scottyg; that a really nice thing to say and I really do appreciate it, thank you...

John, you'll need a bigger hat than that if the Forumistas keep swelling your head with such glowing compliments!!!

 

[simond72]

P3 Gauges are great, had one in my previous car and they really do look completely OEM

Surprised by the snaking when braking...where you in dynamic suspension settings?

Depending on the road surface comfort might be a better bet for sporty driving than dynamic which really needs a very smooth surface to exploit - I just spent a day at Millbrook proving ground in my RS3 with Colin from CAT Driver Training, and I was significantly faster around their handling circuit in "comfort" i.e. soft mode (everything else was sport/dynamic of course).

Part of the training involved threshold braking, and multiple hard stops from over 110 mph, the car was faultless, it tracked perfectly straight as long as I relaxed my grip on the wheel - it'll jiggle around, but the car tracked true.

At that level of power I'd advise ditching the pirellis and going to MPSS

 

[bqik]

nice write up.

must agree, worst thing in this car are brakes...

My car is stock but have the extra 280kmh so have reached several times that speed.

braking at high speeds in the autobahn is not the best feeling.

it feels that rear axle has not the same grip as the front one.

regards

 

[Aoon_M]

Braking at speed is BAD in this car, I'm just saying it as it is so please don't take offence..

The brakes also seem to deal with heatsoak very badly, the initial braking is quite good right up until 5 minutes into your blas when the pedal goes to the floor. lol. I also have a very loud brake squeal

Brake plans - lines, pads, oil change, 2 piece discs at the front at some point, rs6 2014 discs at back.

Some updates:



034 motorsport carbon intake fits but the air box design TTRS vs 8v RS3 is ever so slightly different, it still fits and functions though, just doesn't look very aesthetic in the bay. Will get some pics up if requested.



In talks with PPH Motoring to get their intake instead.



My BKS tuning rear rotor upgrade kit should be here.. soon, will get some pics up when received.



Turbo Tuesdays, I hope this doesn't become a theme

The mastermind behind this install is the man himself - Dave Henderson, the only person that gets to work on my car other than myself

OCD like me lol. Give him a shout if you're up in Scotland, wouldn't take my car anywhere else.



Some comparison shots

 

[Aoon_M]

 

[Kugaman1]

Wow, you must have some seriously deep pockets!

I bailed out of buying an RS3 because I thought it was too expensive for what it was. To buy one and then spend £££££ upgrading it straight away.....respect.

 

[franko180]

This is a great thread, interesting to read and thanks for the detailed pictures. I was wondering about one of your earlier photos for the FMIC installation, it appears to show two ducted areas either side of the FMIC. I know on the RS3 8P there is a single secondary coolant radiator for additional cooling as standard, are there two on the 8V?

8P (looking a bit sorry for itself) - single secondary radiator on the right side with coolant lines coming out of the top

8V - appears to show two very similar ducted areas on either side of the FMIC?

 

[meds]

Great thread aoon! Keep the updates coming... like others have said you're fuckn nuts getting balls deep with these upgrades on a brand new car. Well done!!

 

[Aoon_M]

Laszlo @ 034 is taking great care of me. I should have the 034 motorsports MQB platform rear sway bar shortly to test fit, also, PPH Motoring are sending me their intake now so I'm sending my current air box to 034 motorsports in the states so they can work on a solution for the RS3 8V.



PPH Motoring Audi RS3 (8V) High Flow Intake


I have the car back now and the TTE500 turbo has now all been installed and is up and running. I was surprised to notice the car drives around very normally (keeping off boost) there is no noticeable lag or torque decrease etc. Its going to be a long 10 days driving around off boost!



Some new stoppers.. For the rear

Looking forward to seeing how this helps with the nose dive/snaking situation

Audi RS7 rear drilled wavy rotors 356x22mm



To those who think these are just in the looks department, you're wrong. The larger diameter of the RS7 rotor coupled with the stock caliper gives it more braking force that is available to stop a wheel, just like using a longer wrench makes it easier to break a frozen bolt loose.

To those who think you can't increase braking on the rear as it would mess up the brake bias... Wrong again. The ABS/TCU manage the braking. In this case, as the stock calliper is retained the ABS/TCU control systems remain unaffected as the ABS sensor compares wheel speed to road speed to judge the wheel being locked up. As slip is detected the ABS sensors trigger relaxing the brake pressure to individual wheels as that wheel approaches lock up.



Another plus point is that they're aluminium opposed to the standard steel ones that like to rust in 0.123 seconds in our climate.

The plinth behind my grill has now been removed.. Much better. P3Cars gauge suggests it was robbing me of a minimum of an extra 3-4°C above ambient. Guess the number plate definitely won't be going back on the grille now then!

I've also now bought a RaceLogic V-BOX! About time!



I have access to an APR stage 1 RS3 8V tomorrow so I'll post some times up

 

[Aoon_M]

This is a great thread, interesting to read and thanks for the detailed pictures. I was wondering about one of your earlier photos for the FMIC installation, it appears to show two ducted areas either side of the FMIC. I know on the RS3 8P there is a single secondary coolant radiator for additional cooling as standard, are there two on the 8V?

8P (looking a bit sorry for itself) - single secondary radiator on the right side with coolant lines coming out of the top

8V - appears to show two very similar ducted areas on either side of the FMIC?

Yes, I can confirm there is one on each side I wonder if one is maybe an oil cooler.. Will need to get it checked!

 

[franko180]

Yes, I can confirm there is one on each side I wonder if one is maybe an oil cooler.. Will need to get it checked!

On the 8P I believe the oil cooler is part of the assembly the oil filter joins on to. If you look at that photo I posted of the 8P its the "metal block" just to the right of the alternator.

 

[bqik]

thanks for posting your updates and upgrades.

that kind of detail and explanations is amazing.

regards

 

[Aoon_M]

Not had a chance to v-box the other APR car just yet as we've had conflicting schedules, however he did find time to take it up to Crail Raceway this morning. Some good results, although in my opinion it will do an 11.7 easily in the right conditions. And better tyres.


To clarify; this is an RS3 as it left the factory with no modifications bar Stage 1 APR map.

 

[Aoon_M]

PPH Motoring intake arrived yesterday with the BMC panel filter, just in time for the car heading off to MRC.

The air box design itself is exactly the same, only the intake neck has been widened. The stock air filter has been replaced with a BMC panel filter. The intake pipe has been replaced with a powder coated (some kind of heat resistant) pipe which is noticeably larger than OEM, allowing smooth un interrupted air flow to the TTE500.



Not a major fan of this intake, but it does the job. Price wise it is way way, way overpriced imo. Laszlo @ 034 has asked me to send my air box over so they can design an intake for the 8V RS3, I will switch to that when the time comes.

I also now have a side sticky plate, which again I'm not a fan of tbh. But touring round Europe next month and it's needed.

 

[Aoon_M]

The intake pipe unfortunately does neck down at the turbo as the turbo inlet is smaller, not much can be done about that although if you were really bothered you could get TTE to make a custom cnc inlet pipe, but it's not worth it as the restriction in this turbo is in the headers.

Gearbox map isn't available just yet so that's going to need to wait for now..

The car has now been left in MRC's very capable hands, should be ready in a week. It's going to be a long week!! My power aim is circa 525bhp on 99 octane pump fuel. Also spoke to Dougal about running meth but it's simply not worth the hassle.

I'm still waiting on my BKS Tuning rear brake kit, in stock my a**!! Hasn't even been dispatched yet. Very poor service as I've been waiting for about 3 weeks.

William @ MSS is sending me over their Sports spring pack for the 8V platform and I'll be doing a very in depth review on them as I've got a 2500 mile trip around Europe next month. This will stress everything on the car to its absolute limit with the Autobahn speeds and the hot weather. Will be a true test of the mapping and all supporting hardware. One small failure could mean it's game over and I'd need to leave the car behind to continue on with the trip and have it towed back to the UK. This is why there's such a rush as I need to get the car ready for this trip. Feeling a bit nervous now!

I'm looking to buy some super sport seats. If anyone would like to sell or swap with my fully adjustable electric seats + cash your way please get in touch.

 

[bqik]

hello!

are there some news from MRC?

thanks

 

[Aoon_M]

HPerformance intake and their 8v RS3 parts in general look very good. But I'm waiting on my 034 intake which will be my go to one. The only intake on the 2.5tfsi platform that is proven to work.



My insurance is very high as it is, I'm 19, the mods add about £800 to the insurance.



So the BKS Tuning adapters for my RS7 rear rotor upgrade have finally arrived.. Will fit over the weekend.



Get the car back from MRC-Tuning on Friday, should have the results on their mapping tomorrow.

 

[Aoon_M]

If you know, you most definitely goddamn know. MRC have done it again, 531PS & 650nm of torque. Can't wait to go pick this up tomorrow. Special thanks to Mihnea & Dougal for mapping, Simon for the turbo and Dave for fitting. Bravo.

 

[Aoon_M]

Okay..



Well..



11.3 @ 122mph












The car is fast. Shaun is overlaying some vbox data as we speak.. Too tired just now as I just got home but will do a more in depth review later



I recon I can crack 10's with race fuel better tyres and a DSG remap. gen 5 haldex rocks!

 

[Aoon_M]

I've already been speaking to Hank and an IMS650/IMS730 kit is on the cards for later this year. Their IMS650 kit is supposedly the same spool as the TTE500, with more power. Borg Warner EFR magic with a custom manifold.



The limitation in the TTE500 is in the hot side manifold. EGT's get too high after a few pulls if you decide to run more boost, therefore deemed unsafe. Due to the turbo being a 'hybrid' it has to retain OEM fitting for everything, therefore they can only port the manifold so far to keep to OEM spec...



My car is currently running 1.6-1.7bar of boost. The spool comes on roughly around 750rpm later than stock.. You can't really notice it on the road unless you actually look for it, we've got a lovely kick down switch to thank for that.



The car is very fast, however a DSG map will be needed if you decide to go for higher power.



Some V-BOX verified figures..



0-60 - 3.2s

60-100 - 4.1s

62-124 - 7.8s



The 62-124 figures are equivalent to that of a C63 AMG (w204) at stage 1 power levels, circa 520bhp. Go figure..





I've fitted my RS6 rear discs. The brake balance is now perfect. No more nose diving. Very neutral feel now. Definitely not a placebo effect.. Anyone with the stock car will know how you need to prepare for an emergency plane landing when braking from high speed.. The issue is now completely gone. The snaking is also completely gone!! How it should have left the factory in my opinion. If you want to improve your braking this should be one of the first mods you should do..



I'm looking to buy some ceramics for the front, has anyone got any info as to what discs will fit? Been looking at an RS5 front setup.



Some pictures of the discs



Before

After