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A good option for those who don't like the diesel 2020 S4 TDI

WarwickBoy Mar 9, 2020

  1. WarwickBoy

    WarwickBoy Active Member

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    A few on here have moaned about the switch of the S4 for the 2020 model from petrol to mild-hybrid diesel. For those who don't want an oil burner, the 2020 Audi RS4 is now available to order.

    It's a petrol engine vehicle with similar styling performance to the S4 TDI. Rory Reid (ex Top gear and now with Autocar) has done a full review of the S4 Avant assessing performance/practicality including a trip to a local pottery store to assess boot space.

    He does a 0-60 mpg test and achieves 5.1 seconds. I've actually managed 0-60 mph in my S4 Avant in 4.9 seconds albeit in different UK conditions.

    Overall the Audi RS4 Avant is well received, and in fact Rory thinks it is better than the Audi RS6. High praise indeed. Full review linked.



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    Load Test at the Garden Centre
     

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  3. Dingah from Downundah

    Dingah from Downundah Dingah's office

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    I guess that if you can afford the purchase price (!) you might also be able to afford the RS cost of ownership.
    Nice but hardly an alternative on a cost basis.

    Dingah
     
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  4. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    Two things, one, Avant only and two, over £60k.....
     
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  5. Keef

    Keef Well-Known Member

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    Ok so I’ve been trying not to bite, but I cant work out if this post is a joke or just trying to provoke a response!?

    are you really suggesting an RS4 is an alternative to a TDi S4?

    or just trying to throw in 0-60 to justify your car. Clearly you are fully entitled to your option and there’s no censorship here.

    I just find this an odd post. We all know the capabilities of an RS4 and the price difference.
     
  6. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member

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    At least the RS has proper exhaust outlets although still a synthetic sound and the rather cr*p interior the 2020 models have...
     
  7. Evil Derboy

    Evil Derboy Well-Known Member

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    Is @WarwickBoy a social media marketer for Autotrader? Because why else would you post such utter nonsense?

    “Don’t like that the RS3 because it’s not big enough?? Problem solved just ***** up double the price for an RSQ8!”
     
  8. X3man

    X3man Well known member

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    Just the small matter of the extra £20k+ to get an RS4 over S4. Really?
     
  9. WarwickBoy

    WarwickBoy Active Member

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    The S4 and the RS4 have always been the range toppers for Audis A4 model. Their styling is very similar, and the real world performance not that different. Effectively the same car with different engines. Some people have a non objective view that diesel cars are rubbish.

    I can assure you I have no connection with AutoTrader. I even got them mixed up with Autocar.

    I think utter nonesense is a bit strong. Objectively comparing the two cars and highlighting there is not much between them.

    If you want a minimal performance boost you can pay £20k extra. As other highlight in this thread perhaps the RS4 is not worth the extra money unless you are a speed/performance nut?
     
  10. motty225

    motty225 Active Member

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    To say the s4 is close to the RS4 is daft, especially the oil burner s4, I'd hardly say nearly 100bhp more is a minimal performance increase
     
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  11. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    @WarwickBoy have you driven an RS4??? . There is a lot more to the driving experience than how fast it will get to 60mph.
     
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  13. Baj257

    Baj257 Active Member

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    This is a joke right? It must be.
    Styling very similar.
    Real world performance not that different. Effectively the same car with different engines.

    I actually can’t stop laughing at how stupid these comments are.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  14. OCDaveS4

    OCDaveS4 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter

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    The review is amusing, but what a terrible way to treat an £80k motor!!! Coming to an Audi showroom (one careful owner) soon !!

    I just hope the paint finish is less prone to chips than my S3 and now S4 !!
     
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  15. Evil Derboy

    Evil Derboy Well-Known Member

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    It's utter nonsense because the two cars (especially with S4 now having a diesel engine) could not be more different. Even when the S4 had a petrol engine it was a different engine to the RS4. The RS4 shared the same block but had 100cc less displacement and an extra turbo. Add in things like wider track, different suspension set up, a sports differential etc etc. People who have never had the appetite to purchase an M, AMG or RS model often don't understand the dynamic differences compared to the rest of the range. The S cars are exactly the same as the less powerful cars save for some styling tweaks and a higher-powered engine. The marketing boys came up with the "S" to sell more cars. The RS cars are a breed apart and designed and built by a different company (which is slightly confused by the fact that that company recently changed its name from Quattro GMBH to Audi-Sport GMBH).

    RS cars provide far more than a minimal performance boost and to believe thats the only difference is to never have lived with one for any length of time. Same goes for M and AMG cars.

    All that aside, your basic argument is STILL nonsense as you're comparing two cars that are so far apart on price to make the comparison entirely invalid. Hence my RS3/RSQ8 quip.

    Add to that that Rory is reviewing an RS4 Avant. Not an S4 and the 0-62 time is 4.1 seconds from Audi (who are notoriously conservative with their 0-62 times). Besides all that your S4 diesel would be very quickly left for dead regardless of how close it is off the line to start with.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
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  16. WesT-gefül

    WesT-gefül Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

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    This whole thread...... ouch.
     
  17. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member

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    Minimal performance boost? My RS4 was timed to 60 in 3.3s.

    TX.

    Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk
     
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  18. Baj257

    Baj257 Active Member

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    Also, the 0-60 in that video was done on a gravel track.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  19. OCDaveS4

    OCDaveS4 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter

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    Indeed - I couldn’t bear to watch !!
     
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  20. Daggerit

    Daggerit Well-Known Member

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    Painful to watch, but actually really impressive he managed the acceleration he did.


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  21. WarwickBoy

    WarwickBoy Active Member

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    No, not as yet. What differences should I expect other than engine noise (RS4 being better)?
     
  22. WarwickBoy

    WarwickBoy Active Member

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  23. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Yes there is a change in the noise but the whole driving dynamic is different. The way the car handles, drives , the feedback you get. There are just so many differences between an S4 TDI and an RS4.
     
  24. Bryant1998

    Bryant1998 Well-Known Member

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    Never owned an RS but hope to in the next few years, but if you think Audi charge 20k+ for an engine upgrade you’re very ill informed, definitely go test drive an RS, or find a a driving experience day that has RS cars

    But bragging 4.9 0-60 on the diesel S4 really isn’t a flex, my stage one, 09 S3 will beat that and it’s manual... and less than 1/4 of the price

    As TX said his was timed 0-60 in 3.3, that’s insane for an estate car, or any car for that matter
     
  25. terminator x

    terminator x Well-Known Member

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    B9 RS4 so the V6 twin turbo version; standard car Audi just understate the performance. RS will always slay the S, Audi wouldn't have it any other way.

    TX.

    Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk
     
  26. WarwickBoy

    WarwickBoy Active Member

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    I suspect you are right and look forward to my test drive in the RS4 Avant. I suspect the whole driving dynamic warrants the price hike as you suggest.

    Happy to concede that while the new 2020 S4 is generally accepted as better than the outgoing S4 the oil burner is not in the same league as any RS4 model.
     
  27. Dingah from Downundah

    Dingah from Downundah Dingah's office

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    The increased dynamic performance is likely closely related to the reduced amount of cash lingering in your wallet.
    Aside from boasting rights and a few seconds of insane driving per week there is almost nothing between the V6 petrol B9 with DTUK and an RS4; certainly not enough to justify the increased outlays and ongoing cost of ownership required.
    However the thread is about a diesel and having had a SQ5 TDi (and an RS) for a few years, I'd suggest that you may well adapt to an oil burner more readily than you think - the torque curve is great and even though it's largely false, the sound can match the torque when dialled in.

    Dingah
     
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  28. Evil Derboy

    Evil Derboy Well-Known Member

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    The current S4 isn’t better than the petrol one. They only swapped out the engine in Europe to meet fleet emissions targets. That’s why the yanks still get the petrol
     
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  29. Dingah from Downundah

    Dingah from Downundah Dingah's office

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    Cough!!..... and the Australians.......
     
  30. WarwickBoy

    WarwickBoy Active Member

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    Whether or not the S4 is better than the outgoing petrol one is a subjective opinion. There are many reviews where it is suggested it is (examples below) and no doubt there will be reviewer where it is suggested it is worse. It all depends on what you want in a car.

    In terms of describing thread in a different way "What is the best A4 in the range that is petrol and diesel". I think the answer is:
    - Petrol: Audi RS4
    - Diesel Audi S4

    VIDEO: Audi S4 Avant review - unbelievably, it's better as a diesel
    https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/videos/video-audi-s4-avant-review/

    This reviewer says
    "I can honestly add to this that switching to diesel was a good idea"
    "It doesn't sound good "for a diesel" it just sounds good"
    "In terms of torque (700Mn) it blows the previous model (500Nm) out of the car park"
    "It has more torque than a Lamborghini Adventador"
    "When you put you foot down it is just on another level compared to the last S4"
    "This is not a sports car" "it is basically a fast saloon"

    Now I think your questions may be "Which 2020 S4 is better, the diesel one available in Europe, or the petrol one available in the US, Australia". Again that would be subjective, but not really something that is useful to compare from a buyer's perspective as they would only have access to the one in their local market.
     
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  31. Evil Derboy

    Evil Derboy Well-Known Member

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    The reviews are based on Audi trying to change the narrative by repositioning what the S4 is supposed to be. Which they are doing out of necessity with new EU rules being imposed upon them, not because they came up with this magical idea themselves.

    They did the same with the RS5 - knowing that they couldn’t compete with the M4 in the driving dynamics stakes they decided not bother and told the press to review it as a GT car.

    And I don’t know about you but if I had the choice of spending my time in a Lamborghini or an Audi saloon I know which car I’d have....
     
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  32. syed123

    syed123 Active Member

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    I definitely concur on the torque figure compared to the previous one.

    My mapped 272 has 700nm and the pull compared to my friends s5 is in another league.

    However it's no where exciting as the petrol but I don't mind as imo it's a perfect all round car.

    I think each to their own on what floats ur boat.

    People hating on the new s4 diesel need to get a grip - yes they should have kept the petrol n offered the tdi along side but that doesn't make it terrible full stop.

    I wouldn't however compare it to the rs4 even though yeah it's got more torque in the real world maybe.

    I had a go in a pre face lift rs4 avant n the difference between that n the s4 petrol was night and day, and the top end power and driving dynamics is not comparable to any fast diesel imo.

    But having said that Dont under estimate the pull on these fast diesels.

    If I go for the s4 or s7 tdi next, a remap would take it close to 400bhp plus 800nm. Which is a crazy amount of torque.
     
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  34. Simonwhite2000

    Simonwhite2000 2017 S5 Coupe Daytona Grey

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    Exactly what Evil said. Audi found themselves in a position where they had no choice but to make the S4 S5 S6 and S7 diesel based on new regs over the whole range. But also wasnt it handy that Porsche stopped diesels and so all those pre-planned 3.0 diesels needed a home. Win win.
    Other markets get petrols.
    I've had 2 B9 S5s and having driven the new diesel S4 I wouldnt even consider the new B9.5 S5.
     
  35. SiPie

    SiPie Member

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    @WarwickBoy

    Don’t you ever get tired of justifying your diesel S4 purchase ?

    Have some security in your purchase and your own decision. It’s a good car and if diesel’s are your thing, then even better.

    I think it’s a bad decision by Audi and not what S models are about but that doesn’t mean I don’t understand why and appreciate it as a decent car..,,with bags of torque too.

    I’ll stick with my petrol B9 S4.

    Oh and the RS4 is incomparable to the S4, be it petrol or diesel. I genuinely prefer the engine in the S4 but I’d like an extra turbo stuck on and the rest of the car tightened up too
     
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  36. Syed Shah

    Syed Shah Cars are a mans best friend, then dogs..

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    the rs4 manages 0-60 in any semi respectable condition in under 4 seconds with ease.. is at minimum 5x the car the s4 tdi will ever be as well..

    on the road as well, they do not look remotely similar unless you’re stevie wonder.. rs4 is in a different league in all aspects
     
  37. Boosted_Six

    Boosted_Six Active Member

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    This thread is pretty cringey...
     
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  38. WarwickBoy

    WarwickBoy Active Member

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    Agree. The RS4 is in a totally different class to the S4 and anyone trying to compare them in foolish. I understand that now. The £20k price difference gets you a massive increase in performance and styling and features that are a step up. The truth is if I could afford an RS4 I would order one but the reality is it’s beyond my price range. The diesel S4 is a perfectly good car but a very different beast.

    In terms of what is now going on in the wider world, happy to close the thread now. Thank you to those who’ve contributed but as Boosted_Six alludes to there are probably much more important things to focus on. Hopefully in a few months time things we be back to a more normal set of circumstances and we will be a more caring society to boot.

    Sorry for me trying to be funny and in the end looking like a bit of an a**e and I’ll keep my thread contributions on here in future factual and on point.

    Stay safe everyone.
     
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