8V S3 Tuning Thread

[PanamaS3]

@PanamaS3 Sorry to jump in randomly but I was wondering what you think of the DV+ in combination with a DSG? I've only ever used them in manual cars and am wondering when it decides to dump to atmosphere really; anything between shifts with the paddles at full throttle or only on throttle release?

Do you think the Forge BOV you plan on getting will be much different than your current one?

Hey no worries Soul....I'm learning as I go along here, so here's my basic understanding:
I assume you mean upgrading the TCU software on your DSG in conjunction with upgrading the diverter valve.
Firstly, I think you should only do the TCU software upgrade in conjunction with a Stage 1 tune.
Now regarding the diverter valves. My limited, and very brief, technical understanding of blow-off/dump valves (atmospheric) is that the intake charge pressure built up is released to the atmosphere (with some noise) when you lift off the throttle instead of recirculating that air (with very little noise) into the intake track.
On our car, neither will cause any more or less "turbo lag" or increased/decreased performance. Both are good.
The DV+ (from GFB) that I have is almost silent and a superior diverter valve than stock. I felt better throttle response with it.
The Forge atmospheric valve was recommended to me as it sounds great (not "chavvy" I hope) and its mechanically not electronically operated, which means less (hopefully) to go wrong....and it will "dump" to atmosphere as follows:

When the throttle plate is open, the air pressure on both sides of the piston in the blow-off valve is equal and the spring keeps the piston down.
When the throttle is closed, a vacuum forms in the manifold. This in combination with the pressurized air from the turbocharger moves the piston in the valve up, releasing the pressure by recirculation or into the atmosphere.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[Wondering Soul]

Thank you for taking the time to write a detailed response!

Does the new forge valve your getting act as a bolt on replacement to the OEM diverter valve or does it come with a solenoid and vacuum hoses to avoid an engine management light?

Thanks again!

 

[PanamaS3]

Thank you for taking the time to write a detailed response!

Does the new forge valve your getting act as a bolt on replacement to the OEM diverter valve or does it come with a solenoid and vacuum hoses to avoid an engine management light?

Thanks again!

This is what I'm getting from Forge Motorpsort:

Product code: FMDVMK7A

In The Box:
1 x FMDVMK7A Valve
1 x Wiring Harness
1 x Solenoid, Bracket, and Screws
1 x Uprated Blue Spring
10 x Cable Ties
1 x 1000mm of 4mm Vacuum Tube
1 x 5mm T Piece
1 x Instructions
1 x Forge Keyring and Sticker

 

[Marc18]

This is what I'm getting from Forge Motorpsort:

Product code: FMDVMK7A

In The Box:
1 x FMDVMK7A Valve
1 x Wiring Harness
1 x Solenoid, Bracket, and Screws
1 x Uprated Blue Spring
10 x Cable Ties
1 x 1000mm of 4mm Vacuum Tube
1 x 5mm T Piece
1 x Instructions
1 x Forge Keyring and Sticker

Is that the atmospheric one?

From my knowledge vag cars don't like atmospheric valves. Recirc only. I run the forge recirc and with an open cone it's plenty loud. No loss of boost either

 

[Sug]

I'm sure OEM ones work better anyway.

 

[ramos333]

Had my S3 Nogaro blue saloon mapped yesterday at JFA automotive in Maidstone! Very very pleased....what a great service from John and the team. Didn't have time for rolling road so going back to do that but should be 360bhp plus and feels every inch of it

 

[gtiller]

I got an atmospheric one, and took it off because it sounds awful.

It really amplifies the issue that Audi won't admit to AS DISCUSSED HERE

Definitely makes a difference between the gears - but it's marginal on a DSG car in my opinion.

 

[Marc18]

Anyone found any UK stockists for any of the air Intakes other that Apr, neuspeed or forge? Seem to be the only ones about over here.

I'm after something open cone with a heat shield and an Un oiled filter.

Really want the afe power kit but no one will even ship one to the UK

 

[PanamaS3]

I got an atmospheric one, and took it off because it sounds awful.

Did you get the exact same one as I'm planning to?

It really amplifies the issue that Audi won't admit to AS DISCUSSED HERE

I am not experiencing this "rattle/rustle". But if I hear anything unexpected I will immediately change back to the GFB DV+ I already have on. Thanks.

Definitely makes a difference between the gears - but it's marginal on a DSG car in my opinion.

I'm getting the DSG tuned same time as the BOV goes on, so I think I'm going to be noticing some difference there with that more than BOV.

Having owned my car for a year now, and doing a few mods, I have learned to trust my mechanic. He works on almost all the modified S3's in Panama and I never let him do anything without asking a million questions. He has proved to me time and time again that there is very little he doesn't understand about cars. He has already installed this BOV on another S3 and said it is amazing and recommended for me to try it. If I don't like it I will take it off.

 

[PanamaS3]

I'm sure OEM ones work better anyway.

Not according to my experience. There's nothing wrong with the OEM unit other than its made of cheaper materials and more prone to breaking. However, on changing mine to the GFB DV+ I did notice better response and it holding boost for longer.

 

[PanamaS3]

Is that the atmospheric one?

From my knowledge vag cars don't like atmospheric valves. Recirc only. I run the forge recirc and with an open cone it's plenty loud. No loss of boost either

Yes it's the atmospheric one but it has all the hoses and kit to ensure it maintains proper engine function.

I have read online a lot about different types of diverter valve, and it does get very confusing to a non-expert like me. However I understand one problem if not matched up to the right car is that it causes the car to "run rich" as the air measured changes and the fuel is not adjusted to compensate. The S3 however doesn't have an MAF (air sensor) and therefore I understand that the valves designed for this car maintain the air volume through the process and then either "blow-off" whats not needed or re-circ it back as in your model. I would be interested to know if your valve causes any "turbo flutter".

 

[Rob2k68]

I'm about to press the button on stage 2 the only concern is how much more intrusive it is in the cabin and at 70mph cruising speeds last thing I want to do is take a step backwards with the refinement - prob going the Revo/Scorpion route.

Any quoted difference in db level or before and after video ? Cheers.

 

[Nightmare1708]

I'm about to press the button on stage 2 the only concern is how much more intrusive it is in the cabin and at 70mph cruising speeds last thing I want to do is take a step backwards with the refinement - prob going the Revo/Scorpion route.

Any quoted difference in db level or before and after video ? Cheers.

I speak for myself, but I got a Milltek Turbo back non-resonated and non-valved installed just over a week ago and it's been pretty loud with APR Stage 1. I installed APR Stage 2 3 days ago and in my opinion it's actually started sounding a bit softer almost immediately after the stage 2 tune. The exhaust note sounds less deep than when on Stage 1. It might just be me though or the fact that the exhaust is new.

 

[Rob2k68]

^^ Cheers. ;o)

Should add I'm looking at the 200 cell cat version with stock system.

Also how long does it take to fit local garage said 1-2 hours.

 

[PanamaS3]

Has anyone fitted the new Forge carbon air intake to their S3 yet? Be interested to hear pros/cons over the APR/VWR air intakes.

If not, here's a heads up if you haven't seen it and want a bigger box that is not VWRacing.....

http://www.vwgticlub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31368

 

[Nightmare1708]

^^ Cheers. ;o)

Should add I'm looking at the 200 cell cat version with stock system.

Also how long does it take to fit local garage said 1-2 hours.

The Milltek Downpipe took about 3 hours. It's takes long because it uses the same brackets as the original downpipe. Most aftermarket downpipes don't use that bracket so they're easier to fit.

 

[Rob2k68]

The Milltek Downpipe took about 3 hours. It's takes long because it uses the same brackets as the original downpipe. Most aftermarket downpipes don't use that bracket so they're easier to fit.

Thanks for that. I'm looking at the Revo/Scorpion downpipe which also looks to have the same bracket ...... best take some good tunes with me !

 

[Wondering Soul]

@PanamaS3 have you got your Forge BOV fitted yet? Like the sound?

 

[FBF01]

Went out in the s tronic today for a test drive, only because I wanted to hear the B and O system as well as see the SSS. Looked fab. Went out for a drive and f*ck me it felt slow coming from an R with a dtuk box. Can't wait for a stage 1 and the dsg map. Just hope come January they've cracked it. Interested to hear more about the scorpion down pipe as fancy the bcs myself

 

[PanamaS3]

@PanamaS3 have you got your Forge BOV fitted yet? Like the sound?

Hey mate....not yet fitted....hoping its this week sometime so will let you know then how it is.

 

[RobH_S3]

Has anyone fitted the new Forge carbon air intake to their S3 yet? Be interested to hear pros/cons over the APR/VWR air intakes.

If not, here's a heads up if you haven't seen it and want a bigger box that is not VWRacing.....

http://www.vwgticlub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31368

I have one fitted, decent bit of kit, takes air from the entire front end and goes direct straight to the filter which is pretty big. I made two rectangle holes in the top section of the grill either side above the Audi rings as this is blanked off to help with air feed. Oh and its quiet!

 

[S3 sedan1986]

hey guys just to bring you a little info on our beloved cars im going to be reviewing my 2014 saloon with a revo stage 2 and catless TBE by army trix next week. Right now im running stage 1 with the catless exhaust and it goes into limpmode under hard acceleration and yes this is due to the software. Im installing the revo intake together with the just released revo intercooler. For now I can tell you guys that the exhuast is pure adrenaline. Its really hard to believe how much of a difference there is with open or closed valves. My only complaint is that it does not keep valves shut when off and while reving. The valves take into account the amount of preassure put on the accelerator so it can open even before 3000 rpm when you floor it. When valves are open the sound is extremely race-like, raspy as hell. A non resonated milltek sounds much less dramatic. If you are chucking 4000 euro it better be dramatic right?. Ill post fotos and videos when i get the stage 2 installed

 

[Rogier140]

hey guys just to bring you a little info on our beloved cars im going to be reviewing my 2014 saloon with a revo stage 2 and catless TBE by army trix next week. Right now im running stage 1 with the catless exhaust and it goes into limpmode under hard acceleration and yes this is due to the software. Im installing the revo intake together with the just released revo intercooler. For now I can tell you guys that the exhuast is pure adrenaline. Its really hard to believe how much of a difference there is with open or closed valves. My only complaint is that it does not keep valves shut when off and while reving. The valves take into account the amount of preassure put on the accelerator so it can open even before 3000 rpm when you floor it. When valves are open the sound is extremely race-like, raspy as hell. A non resonated milltek sounds much less dramatic. If you are chucking 4000 euro it better be dramatic right?. Ill post fotos and videos when i get the stage 2 installed

I like some vids off that ! wanted the Armytrix as well but it wasn't available when i bought my S3

 

[Rogier140]

drove a new RS3 for a weekend .... with the upgraded sport exhaust ..... damm it has a perfect sound when driving in full revs !

 

[pepperisback]

Here in germany some people are saying that the pistons in the S3 can be damaged above 380hp. Has somebody heard of this problem?

@Rogier140 : Have you measured 100-200 kmh time?

 

[Rogier140]

Here in germany some people are saying that the pistons in the S3 can be damaged above 380hp. Has somebody heard of this problem?

@Rogier140 : Have you measured 100-200 kmh time?

Hi Neighbour,

I haven t heard of this ... there are enhough with more horse than that ..... look at David Lee (golf R 460 pk)

I haven t measured my times, 9-10 sec in my vids.
Have no vbox or anything else to measure correctly

 

[pepperisback]

Hi neighbour David is driving now 570pk with the TTE on stock internals! Lets see how long the engine will live with this power.

The German Tuner Rothe says that there are some pistons batches which are not as strong as the others. Therefore they recommend installing upgraded pistons

 

[pat15312]

Hi neighbour David is driving now 570pk with the TTE on stock internals! Lets see how long the engine will live with this power.

Any links to a build thread? Would be really interested to read about this car.

 

[pepperisback]

Here is a Video from YouTube. You can also search him on Instagram...

 

[S3Alex]

Hi neighbour David is driving now 570pk with the TTE on stock internals! Lets see how long the engine will live with this power.

The German Tuner Rothe says that there are some pistons batches which are not as strong as the others. Therefore they recommend installing upgraded pistons

I think the thing here is exactly what torque the car is running,and what the EGTs are like.

The previous S3 was good for around 440lbs on stock internals,and from what I've seen/read of that particular car,with a TTE450,it's very unlikely to exceed that sort of level,and 400lbs would seem more likely.
As he's now upgraded the turbo to something else,it's always possible he'll increase the torque as well,and bending rods is something to consider.

If you build the engine properly,there is no reason why it shouldn't be reliable,but my own and others experience of pushing the stock parts too far is that failure will result at some point.

My own old beast proves that you can make an everyday driver with a 300bhp/litre engine.

 

[Dandanfings]

I'm waiting to see the torque output of APRs stage 3 kit.
Apparently 1000s of hard miles and testing has been done at 500hp+ so if they are under 450ftlb then I guess that's our answer there!

 

[S3Alex]

I'm waiting to see the torque output of APRs stage 3 kit.
Apparently 1000s of hard miles and testing has been done at 500hp+ so if they are under 450ftlb then I guess that's our answer there!

Hmmm.
I'm always a little sceptical of the figures that the hard worked test mule makes,and what that translates to for customer cars.

The reasoning there is that a headline figure of X bhp always looks great,but knocking 50bhp off for the road cars is often what happens for long term reliability,and from experience APR will produce several specs,one of which is with race fuel and WMI.

The big factor is torque as no one wants to be the first person to explore the point at which the stock parts begin to bend,and with anything up to a GTX3071 turbo,that's unlikely.
What is equally unlikely however,is much over 500bhp,as that turbo is on it's last gasp at that sort of power.

I have a pretty understressed GTX3582 on mine,which is capable of up to 650bhp,and does produce around 540lbs on my car,but my point there is that the magic words "capable of" rely heavily on the rest of the engine being built properly to produce those figures.

 

[pepperisback]

But i think for the APR Stage 3 and 500 hp you need to change pistons and rods.

 

[S3Alex]

But i think for the APR Stage 3 and 500 hp you need to change pistons and rods.

I honestly don't know,but for anything over 440lbs(not BHP) it would seem the safest option.

A lot depends,as I've already said,on the exact turbo being used,and whether or not it's used with WMI etc as well,all of which can influence the torque at a given boost level.
As an example,mine now produces nearly 100lbs more torque,at a lower boost level than on the previous turbo(which was a 3076).

 

[pat15312]

From a commercial standpoint, you'd expect APR would keep the power levels underneath the point where strengthened internals are required.

This would keep the upgrade price point low and attract a larger quantity of people.

If they can get a 500bhp headline figure (I know this isn't the most important thing), lots of people will want this.

 

[pepperisback]

Does someone knows how much it would cost to upgraded pistons and rods?

 

[S3Alex]

From a commercial standpoint, you'd expect APR would keep the power levels underneath the point where strengthened internals are required.

This would keep the upgrade price point low and attract a larger quantity of people.

If they can get a 500bhp headline figure (I know this isn't the most important thing), lots of people will want this.

This is true,and precisely what they did with their Stg3 kit for the 8P model.
That used a GTX2867 turbo,and despite some claims to the contrary never really got north of 450bhp,but more importantly,was safely short of 440lbs.

I would expect a larger turbo this time,maybe a GTX3071,which could just about squeak above 500bhp,with 104RON fuel and WMI.

 

[pepperisback]

APR uses now a Borg Warner EFR Turbo. No Garret!

 

[S3Alex]

Does someone knows how much it would cost to upgraded pistons and rods?

It depends on which manufacturer you choose,and what spec of components you go for,but as an average figure,allow at least £1k for the pistons and rods,then factor in a couple of hundred more for uprated bolts and bearing shells,and you won't be far off.

Then factor in a good bit of labour.
If I'm correct,yours is the EA888 engine,and if so,Integrated Engineering do produce piston and rod sets for your engine,and the guesstimate on price is quite close.

You would need to contact them directly,and I've always found them very efficient and helpful.

One other thing.....APR's kits are well made,and decently specc'd,but not cheap.
The 8P kit came in at around £7k.

 

[pat15312]

APR's kits are well made,and decently specc'd,but not cheap.
The 8P kit came in at around £7k.

Is that including labour and VAT?