disaster with brakes-options please

[swisstony]

following on from my brake disaster over on the RS4 forum, I thought I would ask the question here as may get a faster response

Essentially the N/s front banjo bolt is leaking fluid even thought it is uber tight into the calliper. This has meant the whole bleeding process had to be halted and failed as it was just not holding pressure in the system, too much air

So option 1. is to arrange a recovery truck/flat bed and get it recovered to my local garage and get them to fit a replacement bolt/pipe system. Think it is similar to this
https://www.gsfcarparts.com/dellh74...mP1vqsP7MiDDPylamJZlG0lQUNn0_zUxoCK_IQAvD_BwE

Option 2. Is for me to find the exact same part and attempt to fit it myself. Bonus is cheaper but prone to faulte as I assume the top section where it meets the brake hose coming from the car will be rusty and seized.

Option 3. If I go for a braided upgrade.. if I can get the old out and fit something like this
https://thetuningstore.co.uk/goodri...P4YCHQ1vBGCNS9UE0ZZ4cpC-MxI-qe7BoCj2UQAvD_BwE. Same problem though if I cant get the original out ?

mmmm choices

 

[northpole]

Option 4... get option 3 and replace them all round or have a garage do it... all you need is to supply the right parts and off you go upgraded brake lines, less brake fade and harder.braking for longer.periods of time are all possible by just replacing the lot with braided lines...

Cost a bit more but an upgrade every rs4 should have from the factory imho.

 

[swisstony]

Option 4... get option 3 and replace them all round or have a garage do it... all you need is to supply the right parts and off you go upgraded brake lines, less brake fade and harder.braking for longer.periods of time are all possible by just replacing the lot with braided lines...

Cost a bit more but an upgrade every rs4 should have from the factory imho.

That was the way I was leaning but still doesn’t get around the problem that currently my car is stranded on the driveway with little to no brakes so can’t exactly drive to the garage

 

[swisstony]

Unless by some miracle I can remove the dodgy brake line myself . Anyone got any experience just how rusty or seized they could be ?

 

[northpole]

Ever heard of mobile.mechanics? Use one of them will save you some money too as they are usually cheaper per hour than any garage. Unless you have used the same garage constantly in that case they might be able to pick the car up on an ambulance and do.the job for you...

Just thinking outside the box of constraints

 

[northpole]

Unless by some miracle I can remove the dodgy brake line myself . Anyone got any experience just how rusty or seized they could be ?

They usually come off snapping the rubber lines in the process... but will come off leaving the connection bits intact... but if you don't want the headache use a mobile mechanic after you've bought the parts.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Sorry to hear things have gone a bit tits up but its allways a possibiltiy.
A lot of owners have replaced the brake lines and banjo fitments to use a braided hose with screw-in type nipple instead of a banjo.
Anyway, did you replace the fibre washers on both sides of the banjo, you won't get a pressure seal unless there are good undamaged fibre washers on banjo fittings.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Banjo fitting are hydraulic under high pressure and will never seal pressure tight on a metal to metal surface no matter how tight you nip them up, thats why you need to use fibre washers.

 

[Charlie Farley]

If you try to over-tighten the banjo bolt to stop the leak you will strip the capiler threads and that's not something you want to be doing.
If you can get the banjo bolt out and its serviceable, fit two new fibre washers and refit it , if its damaged just get a new banjo bolt .
Avoid disturbing more than you really need to or are happy fixing.

 

[swisstony]

Yes good shout will do some Googling to find someone local
Hate being beaten by something so small grr …

Sorry to hear things have gone a bit tits up but its allways a possibiltiy.
A lot of owners have replaced the brake lines and banjo fitments to use a braided hose with screw-in type nipple instead of a banjo.
Anyway, did you replace the fibre washers on both sides of the banjo, you won't get a pressure seal unless there are good undamaged fibre washers on banjo fittings.

Just my luck I guess. I never noticed the tiny little fibre washers but as it happens I do have some copper banjo washers so I think my best bet is to order some braided hoses and get these pesky ones out and have a good myself. If I can undo the sections that are up by the rubber hoses then I guess I can fit the braided hoses myself. I am not sure how far back I go though ... think I need to get back under tehre when the weather improves and take some photos.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Just get a pair of front braided hoses that go back to the first joint, unless you want to go back further, which is really not needed.

 

[mikep99]

I've got braided on mine. the place that fitted them didn't mention any issues when replacing them...

 

[swisstony]

I've got braided on mine. the place that fitted them didn't mention any issues when replacing them...

Well when they pitch up this week I will have a go . Fingers crossed for me

 

[Charlie Farley]

This is all you need to do.

 

[swisstony]

This is all you need to do.

View attachment 269481

So not only do I need to swap the hose but also paint my callipers red now for it to work ?

 

[Charlie Farley]

Lol

 

[Charlie Farley]

Red on a sprint blue RS4, the mind boggles....

 

[NHN]

Bit late to the party, have you tested with copper washers?

 

[swisstony]

Bit late to the party, have you tested with copper washers?

well not yet but I think I have ******** up the banjo bolts anyway so today I went out and sprayed WD-40 on the nuts where the hard brake pipe in the inner side of the wheel arch where I assume the braided hose will start. But went to loosen the banjo bolt and it is rounding even more now so may need to remove the calliper and put it in a vice to unscrew the banjo bolt...grr it gets better every day ! Not all is lost , I will succeed somehow , wont be beaten

 

[NHN]

It's a problem to fix & you'll sort it by yourself, get a tap in there to clean the thread, if I'm understanding correctly what you've done.

 

[swisstony]

It's a problem to fix & you'll sort it by yourself, get a tap in there to clean the thread, if I'm understanding correctly what you've done.

Hopefully if I remove the calliper and take it up to my workshop I may be able to secure it somehow so I can get hold of this blessed banjo bolt and get it out. It is so hard to do it when it is on the car and working inside the wheel arch. As it is no use to me now I will just cut the hard pipe near the banjo bolt and work on it when it is off the car. And then to make matters just as complicated, I ordered a new set of braided hoses which have those better ring type ends with a banjo bolt going through them. Like in the picture

and what did they ship just now , the wrong ****** fittting..grr. I mean it will do but I am trying to get away from that style fitting

 

[boffin486]

HMMMMMMMMM......
After reading all the posts, it seems to me that, after shouting at the supplier & getting the correct hoses, you should definitely try this yourself.
Whilst I know the inner connection on the arch will quite probably be seized, a small blow torch can often work wonders on a seized nut.
It doesnt need to be 'glowing red' (you would need oxy acetylene for that) but a quite high amount of heat can be got from a small butane torch and as soon as you think its hot enough, get the spanners on & give it a wrench! If it still won't come off, try dousing the hot nut with WD40 (or the like) & then heating it again.
I have used this method many times & it usually works.
And, of course, we all know painting the calipers red will help & will also get a few more horse powers along with more speed.

 

[boffin486]

As an aside, I have usually found that new copper washers give the best chance of a good seal - that is why the sump plug has one. They should, however, be replaced if the joint is disturbed later.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Hopefully if I remove the calliper and take it up to my workshop I may be able to secure it somehow so I can get hold of this blessed banjo bolt and get it out. It is so hard to do it when it is on the car and working inside the wheel arch. As it is no use to me now I will just cut the hard pipe near the banjo bolt and work on it when it is off the car. And then to make matters just as complicated, I ordered a new set of braided hoses which have those better ring type ends with a banjo bolt going through them. Like in the picture

View attachment 269506


and what did they ship just now , the wrong ****** fittting..grr. I mean it will do but I am trying to get away from that style fitting

View attachment 269507

What you will find now with the old banjo bolt is that because you've nipped it really tight, well more a case of overtightened it, and without the fibre or copper washers in place, the banjo bolt face is almost seized for a better description on the banjo hose head, it won't actually be seized but it will be gripping like hell.
As you are replacing the hoses, just cut the hose, and carefully clamp the caliper in a vice with packing to avoid damage.
Then instead of trying to turn the banjo bolt, spray some silicone or similar lubricant around the banjo fitting where it contacts to the caliper and slow and gently just turn the fitting backward a bit, then forwards a tad, just enough to loosen the banjo bolts grip, once its moving you will find the banjo bolt can be extracted with a pair of mole grips etc .
The emphasis is on just moving that banjo fitting a little bit to get the bolt moving, it won't need much.
Its a trick I've used many times and allways works.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Every day is a new experience and learning curve with cars and car ownership, but with a bit of help most problems that seem a challenge can be overcome with a lot more ease than expected.

 

[swisstony]

****** ITS FIXED !! ****

Well firstly can I just say a big thank you to you all for commenting and sending me helpful tips, it really did help when I was pulling my hair out and was royally ****** off with it. In the end after a discussion with the supplier of the braided hoses, it seems I am a numpty ( not for the first time ) as those fittings were the correct ones. He explained no need for a fibre washer or copper crush washer as the tapered end makes a perfect seal in the calliper and although I was doubtful, it actually was right.
So I did exactly as you wrote rob about the vice, but I was ahead of your kind suggestion as I simply whipped both callipers off by first cutting the offending hard pipe near the bolt. This little ****** was the cause of the problem.

You can see how rounded it had got. But with some towels wrapped in my vice, I got a pair of mole grips on it and got it out. Then I tapped the threads to make sure they were clean and tested the new braided bolt and all good. Then took it back to the car and fitted it to the main part of the hard pipe. Tidied it all up and made sure everything was in the brackets behind the suspension and then had the fun and ganes of bleeding the brakes. God there was so much air in the system and I think my wife was bored of the constant , up, down, up , down But got there in the end and although it could be better I think, went for a test drive . More to bed in the new discs and pads but also to test it all.

So phew, got there !

 

[Charlie Farley]

The flared pipe with tapered shoulder nut is a much better fitting than the banjo type for these calliper applications but that said banjo setups have their place too.
One advantage with the banjo is that it does not protrude as much as the flared pipe and nut type.and sometimes less open to damage that the plain pipe , but whatever you choose.

 

[boffin486]

That is a standard brake pipe fitting and, like Rob says, almost always gives a leak free fit. They are, as you have found, rather easy to round off & then a molegrip wrench is required. I have spent a lot of time swearing at these on old cars and always put Coppaslip on the threads and smother the whole assembly with Waxoyl after fitting (makes life so much easier next time).

Now, just think how much better the Calipers would look in ..........................Red...............
You Know you wanna.......

 

[swisstony]

That is a standard brake pipe fitting and, like Rob says, almost always gives a leak free fit. They are, as you have found, rather easy to round off & then a molegrip wrench is required. I have spent a lot of time swearing at these on old cars and always put Coppaslip on the threads and smother the whole assembly with Waxoyl after fitting (makes life so much easier next time).

Now, just think how much better the Calipers would look in ..........................Red...............
You Know you wanna.......

Don’t start


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[Charlie Farley]

That’s great you’ve sorted it now chap, just wanted to clarify though.
The pics of the mashed up hose fitting, was that the one on the car that was leaking?
If so that wasn’t a banjo type hose fitting it is a standard flared pipe fitting which relies on a flared pipe end and thread nut to create a pressure seal.
It’s normally fine but only needs a small bit of grit or dirt to get trapped inside and prevent a good pressure seal , and no amount of tightness will help , which I suspect is what occurred in your case.

the banjo type fitting is a bit more forgiving as it relies on the two washers on either side of the banjo to create a pressure tight seal. So less likely hood of over tightening and damaging the calliper threads etc.

Anyway just thought I’d misunderstood what fittings were already on the car, its sorted now so onto the next job.

 

[swisstony]

Yes sorry I always call calliper fittings banjos but now I see what you mean about the difference
And yes that mashed one was the lens that was leaking . Little ******


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