Audi S3 Performance issue, 2001 AMK

[CharlesB]

Hi guys,

I only have the following mods:

Green Cotton Air Filter
3 inch Down Pipe
GFB DV+
Stage 2 Map

The car feels ok driving around normally.. however if I give it a boot full in 3rd gear, it feels ok the first time (MAF Reading upto 196g/s) with a slight hesitation feeling.
If I keep driving around, the result becomes worse the longer I drive, ie down as low as 185g/s and the hesitation becomes worse.

The car has had just about all the hoses replaced, incl brake booster and pcv, so i'm not convinced that I have a boost leak.

I have ordered a new set of Bosch Coils, as the service history shows that only two of these have ever been replaced (due to mis-fires in the past).

The car is running the OEM spec sparkplugs, should I changed these?

I have an OBDEleven scan tool, but unfortunately its useless any only very intermittently shows me live data.
The odd thing is that it works perfectly on my A3 3.2 8P.
I may have to look at spending the money on the VCDS.

Just looking for ideas really.
Thanks

 

[hydro s3]

I would change the dv for a standard recirculation valve as 1st thing.

 

[warby80]

Which stage2 map? Everything i have ever read suggests stage 2 needs 80mm tip and Fmic. Possibly heatsoaking the standard intercoolers?

 

[JonnyDerv]

Yep do you have standard intercoolers?

 

[Stuart B]

it does sound like hot air on the subsequent runs - causing intervention. some S3's are a nightmare to log - I couldn't get any laptop tools to work on my 2001 S3 but the 2003 TT worked the first time and has since, something to do with the k-line to ODB according to nefmoto.

 

[himself26]

Have the same problem 2002 S3 give it a boot full one minute & it feels like it doesn't have a turbo do the say a few minutes later & It tries to though you through the back window when it comes on boost

 

[badger5]

vcds logs may reveal... buy it or take to somewhere where it can be loaded on dyno and confirm whats going on.

OR

poke and hope throw parts on it based on "internet advice"

 

[CharlesB]

The Stage 2 Ecu is from some guy called ECMdevelopment in Glasgow.
It claimed 280hp/380nm

I put my stock ECU back in tonight, the car felt so slow, ran fine for the most part, but now and then could feel a hint of something not being right.
I'll order the VCDS stuff and do some data logging and see what the gremlin is.

One odd thing is that I swear my headlight alignment changed when I re-installed the original ECU, does this control the headlights at all?
The Stage 2 Mapped ECU was originally from an Audi TT 225, it has the same part number as mine though.

 

[JonnyDerv]

So you put a “stage 2” ecu from a different car in your car? Firstly you’re not making 280 bhp, even if that car was, you’re missing some pretty key hardware such as turbo inlet pipe and more importantly larger injectors and a fmic. If that car was genuinely 280 bhp, you’ve put an ecu in your car that would have boost, fuel scaling etc set up for a car with a fmic and larger injectors. Even with exactly the same hardware all engines are different, especially at the age these are now. Some may take more ignition timing than another for example, lots of variables (which is why custom mapping is important). 100% this needs scanning ASAP, take it to a reputatble garage (preferably a good vag indy or tuning company). I wouldn’t be putting that ecu back in my car, I’d be getting a custom map.

 

[CharlesB]

So you put a “stage 2” ecu from a different car in your car? Firstly you’re not making 280 bhp, even if that car was, you’re missing some pretty key hardware such as turbo inlet pipe and more importantly larger injectors and a fmic. If that car was genuinely 280 bhp, you’ve put an ecu in your car that would have boost, fuel scaling etc set up for a car with a fmic and larger injectors. Even with exactly the same hardware all engines are different, especially at the age these are now. Some may take more ignition timing than another for example, lots of variables (which is why custom mapping is important). 100% this needs scanning ASAP, take it to a reputatble garage (preferably a good vag indy or tuning company). I wouldn’t be putting that ecu back in my car, I’d be getting a custom map.

The seller had Plug and Play ECU's ready to go in Stage 1 and Stage 2.
He must buy them from the wreckers and then does the immo delete with the remap.
So its just a generic Map he sells, then again that is what many places sell.

Unfortunately where I live, there is no one that can tune the factory ECU on a rolling road.
I'm skeptical about the power claims, my highest Maf reading last night was 198, which means around 247.5hp, assuming the MAF is perfect, it was replaced at 135,000km 5 years ago, the car now has 198,000k, but I did clean it 4 months ago.


Original Conversation below.
Hi,

Both Stages will work on a standard car, but we recommend a Turbo Inlet Pipe and 3" Downpipe to get the most from Stage 2.

Thanks
Reply
Your previous message

I see you have Stage 1 and 2 for my AMK engined Audi S3 8L.
What are the required mods to use the Stage 2?

I have just replaced every breather hose and turbo inlet hose etc and great cost, but at least it now runs properly, so now its tuning time.

Best Regards,

 

[JonnyDerv]

Where abouts is it you live mate? That kind of power would be about right for stage 1 without an inlet pipe. One of the most important things he hasn’t mentioned is an intercooler. The standard coolers are crap and they’re pretty much on their knees even at stage 1. Standard injectors are pretty much maxed out at 270ish.

The car definitely needs scanning and some diagnosis work carried out to see what’s wrong. If you want to start moving on towards performance parts it’s probably best to do some research on parts for the power levels you’re wanting, all of which can be done here

 

[CharlesB]

Where abouts is it you live mate? That kind of power would be about right for stage 1 without an inlet pipe. One of the most important things he hasn’t mentioned is an intercooler. The standard coolers are **** and they’re pretty much on their knees even at stage 1. Standard injectors are pretty much maxed out at 270ish.

The car definitely needs scanning and some diagnosis work carried out to see what’s wrong. If you want to start moving on towards performance parts it’s probably best to do some research on parts for the power levels you’re wanting, all of which can be done here

South Island, New Zealand.

I scanned the car, no codes at all, with either ECU even after 2000km of driving on the Remapped one.
I replaced the Timing chain tensioner recently along with the clutch, but neither of these should have caused issues, unless I bumped something..

I live in a useless place when it comes to diagnosing issues, so I will work it out myself and get the proper VCDS Scanner, since the OBDEleven has issues with live data on this car.

 

[JonnyDerv]

The standard coolers are terrible here in the UK so I dread to think what they’re like there lol. Where in South Island? Had a quick look and there’s a place in Christchurch, volkspower, NZperformancetuning in Dunedin so there’s a few about. Volkspower sounds a decent bet as they’re vag specialists.

 

[Stuart B]

you wont get any error code raised for the map to switching over to BTS (high EGTs) or knock component protection.

but you need to log your car as I expect without the proper TIP, FMIC, DOWNPIPE the stage 2 will just go over the thresholds and have no power. I did the same thing bought an ECU from eBay with a 285+BHP written on it. but the map was encrypted so rather annoyingly you have no dea what is happening.

I did look at a jabbasport stage1 map recently and that was more like a stage 2 fuelling + load + timing (but the load was too much for a stock setup - they were also told it will get better the more changes you make!)

 

[<tuffty/>]

they were also told it will get better the more changes you make!

That is the generic excuse for rubbish maps tbh...

Even on a typical 'stage 1' map intake and exhaust temps will rocket on the standard hardware forcing the ECU to protect itself...

Once IAT's go above 35 degrees then the ECU will pull timing out and torque will drop right off making the car feel flat as a fart... I measured 60+ degrees intake temps on the road when I had a Custom Code stage 1 back in the day... once I fitted the AH Fabs V1 FMIC they stuck to around 30 degree... only other mods I had back then was a cheap silicon TIP (not 80mm as Bill hadn't come up with them then) a Green Cotton panel filter and Frge 007 DV...

Other than the map the biggest difference was from the FMIC...

All sounds plausible but all thats actually happening is you get the power you would have on a cold run more of the time as the engine runs cooler...

Most stage 1 maps on standard cars will do 'some' figure on a cold run then power will drop away from heat related intervention... managing the heat will give you what you should have more consistently... not make things better as such... the statement suggests it starts with lower power then gets better the more mods you do... this is untrue as the map doesn't know what hardware changes you have made only what the result of what its asked to do by getting data from sensors... it will try to do all the performance its mapped to do, the engine will get hot and the ECU will hold back... fitting the mods will allow it to do the power it was mapped to do...

Thats just not really the best way to map a car...

<tuffty/>

 

[CharlesB]

So the actual problem is probably just this.
*under intake manifold, obvious signs of a leak *
1535349761093 by Charles Buchanan, on Flickr

Some pics of the downpipe:
38156623_10217141726394728_2076030463234801664_n by Charles Buchanan, on Flickr

38459112_242695293032884_2787095434760290304_n by Charles Buchanan, on Flickr

38155666_10217141725074695_4954023928717639680_n by Charles Buchanan, on Flickr



The worn out old clutch:
38072427_10217124996456490_3524739046892896256_n by Charles Buchanan, on Flickr

Chain Tensioner replacement - early stage, was fun, not: (Did this a few months ago).

36087371_10216812116354683_2174474725726617600_n by Charles Buchanan, on Flickr

 

[JonnyDerv]

A vac leak isn’t going to help matters but the fundamentals stated before regarding intercooler etc still stand.