Let's talk about brakes

[Thundercliffe81]

Hey up.

Been a while since I posted.

Just had my winters swapped out for summers (keeping the Nokian Winters-only used 2mm of tread. Wow). Anyway, brake report saying I've only got 2mm of pad left on both rears and all 4 discs are poor. Something wrong here with this. My B8.5 had 3mm left after 3 years! I certainly haven't changed my driving style in this B9. Barely on them. Always use engine braking and inclines etc to slow down where I can.

Any other S4 owners having brake issues? The rust is diabolical on these B9 discs too. Slightest bit of rain or leaving the car for a few days (away with work a lot).

Cheers. Hope everyone is grand




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[Spaceman_RS3]

What’s mileage and who gave the report? Where are the discs rusty?

 

[Thundercliffe81]

What’s mileage and who gave the report? Where are the discs rusty?

Still looking for my last Audi report. This was just from Tyres on the drive. Last Audi report said the fronts were corroded. 23k mikes.

My B8.5 S4 was 54k miles when I handed back with 3mm left.


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[Thundercliffe81]

What’s mileage and who gave the report? Where are the discs rusty?

Last Audi report at 20k miles only says 25% worn with relation to brakes. Ignorance on my part but what depth are they at new?


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[Joetidman]

Last Audi report at 20k miles only says 25% worn with relation to brakes. Ignorance on my part but what depth are they at new?


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7-8 mm for summers


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[Thundercliffe81]

7-8 mm for summers


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Haha. I know that. Should have been more clear. Thickness of 'pads', bud not tyres.


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[Retroman]

Brakes will rust-up (very light surface orange discolouration) almost before you very eyes with just a wash or rain. Garages should only really worry about deeper rust which may be causing the pads to not make proper contact with the disc surface.

Brake work is very much "bread n butter" work to main dealers (all manufacturers) who seem to get more and more fussy at servicing (not MOTS ) as they look for work.

A new brake pad (friction material) is around 11mm and 3mm should get flagged up as an MOT advisory. 25% worn means they have plenty of life left.

 

[Nickfrog]

You should easily be able to see the outside pad through the wheel spokes. Using a phone to take a picture with flash usually helps too and you can tell if indeed there is only 2mm of material left...or 6mm...

All 4 discs being poor means FA. They should have measured residual thickness and tell you how far that is from official wear tolerance

 

[Thundercliffe81]

Brakes will rust-up (very light surface orange discolouration) almost before you very eyes with just a wash or rain. Garages should only really worry about deeper rust which may be causing the pads to not make proper contact with the disc surface.

Brake work is very much "bread n butter" work to main dealers (all manufacturers) who seem to get more and more fussy at servicing (not MOTS ) as they look for work.

A new brake pad (friction material) is around 11mm and 3mm should get flagged up as an MOT advisory. 25% worn means they have plenty of life left.

Yeah that's what I'm saying bud. 11mm ? Blimey. Only 3k miles between audi saying 25% worn and tyres on the drive saying 2mm left. He must be wrong. Cheers for that


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[Thundercliffe81]

You should easily be able to see the outside pad through the wheel spokes. Using a phone to take a picture with flash usually helps too and you can tell if indeed there is only 2mm of material left...or 6mm...

All 4 discs being poor means FA. They should have measured residual thickness and tell you how far that is from official wear tolerance

Not just that, just seems a bit buckshee to be measuring pad thickness that quick. Anyway, apart from the usual audi brake rust, they seem good. No way I've used 90% of them pads in 16months.

Compared to the B8.5, I do find them quite spongey mind. Perhaps a bit more progressive but weird.


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[Spaceman_RS3]

That’s because these are 6 pots I’d think and the twin pot sliders of the b8 prob clamp quicker with a more solid feel as you will use them more

 

[Thundercliffe81]

That’s because these are 6 pots I’d think and the twin pot sliders of the b8 prob clamp quicker with a more solid feel as you will use them more

Man, I've been away from this forum too long haha. My knowledge base has shrunk! Good point.


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[Joetidman]

Haha. I know that. Should have been more clear. Thickness of 'pads', bud not tyres.


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No, me being dumb lol


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[Drew Adamson]

Hey up.

Been a while since I posted.

Just had my winters swapped out for summers (keeping the Nokian Winters-only used 2mm of tread. Wow). Anyway, brake report saying I've only got 2mm of pad left on both rears and all 4 discs are poor. Something wrong here with this. My B8.5 had 3mm left after 3 years! I certainly haven't changed my driving style in this B9. Barely on them. Always use engine braking and inclines etc to slow down where I can.

Any other S4 owners having brake issues? The rust is diabolical on these B9 discs too. Slightest bit of rain or leaving the car for a few days (away with work a lot).

Cheers. Hope everyone is grand




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Hi, I've just handed my Avant Quattro in to the dealer with shuddering brakes. The car was purchased on 19th April 2017 and has 7400 miles on it. They've told me I need new discs and pads on both front wheels due to extreme pitting. I'm more than shocked. This is not just a car with brake problems, it's an Audi, which would fail an MOT virtually out of the box. I had parked the car up for a couple of weeks whilst in hospital. The shuddering wasn't there when I parked but happened right away as soon as I drove it again. I don't use it for track days, in fact the hardest braking has been done by the car itself 3-4 times on pre-sense. With my previous cars of various makes I've had 20,000 miles on a set of pads and have rarely had to change discs over 20 or so vehicles.

 

[pjeffe9172]

This isn't just Audi brakes. On an Aprilia Motorcycle I had EBC brake discs that went after 900 dry miles and failed MOT due to shudder. Replaced them as I was told it was probably due to me not getting them hot enough (floating dics). Kept the receipt and Mot'd it just short of 12 months......failed on warped brake callipers. Sent the discs back to EBC with MOT report and they replaced. It must be something to do with he materials used now.

Before my Audi I used to use these hand wash places. Some used strong wheel acid at the pre-wash stage and this would be left on for 5 minutes whilst waiting, I cant imagine this does much good to the discs!

 

[Thundercliffe81]

Hi, I've just handed my Avant Quattro in to the dealer with shuddering brakes. The car was purchased on 19th April 2017 and has 7400 miles on it. They've told me I need new discs and pads on both front wheels due to extreme pitting. I'm more than shocked. This is not just a car with brake problems, it's an Audi, which would fail an MOT virtually out of the box. I had parked the car up for a couple of weeks whilst in hospital. The shuddering wasn't there when I parked but happened right away as soon as I drove it again. I don't use it for track days, in fact the hardest braking has been done by the car itself 3-4 times on pre-sense. With my previous cars of various makes I've had 20,000 miles on a set of pads and have rarely had to change discs over 20 or so vehicles.

That's similar to mine. Parked up a few weeks. Rust expected but they've been shuddering for a long time now on and off. They've settled down past two days. But might take it in.


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[cuke2u]

Before my Audi I used to use these hand wash places. Some used strong wheel acid at the pre-wash stage and this would be left on for 5 minutes whilst waiting, I cant imagine this does much good to the discs!

One reason why never to use any car washes, think what the acid will do to laser cut wheels....

 

[Paul Golding]

One reason why never to use any car washes, think what the acid will do to laser cut wheels....

Oh great. Now I have a choice of bird sh1t burning the paint, or the car wash burning the wheels

The rest of the thread doesn't read well though. My B7 had front disks and all round pads done at well over 50k miles.

 

[Thundercliffe81]

Oh great. Now I have a choice of bird sh1t burning the paint, or the car wash burning the wheels

The rest of the thread doesn't read well though. My B7 had front disks and all round pads done at well over 50k miles.

Exactly


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[Thundercliffe81]

Hi, I've just handed my Avant Quattro in to the dealer with shuddering brakes. The car was purchased on 19th April 2017 and has 7400 miles on it. They've told me I need new discs and pads on both front wheels due to extreme pitting. I'm more than shocked. This is not just a car with brake problems, it's an Audi, which would fail an MOT virtually out of the box. I had parked the car up for a couple of weeks whilst in hospital. The shuddering wasn't there when I parked but happened right away as soon as I drove it again. I don't use it for track days, in fact the hardest braking has been done by the car itself 3-4 times on pre-sense. With my previous cars of various makes I've had 20,000 miles on a set of pads and have rarely had to change discs over 20 or so vehicles.

Just coming back to this. My precious B8.5 S4 had 54k mikes and brakes not changed. They were at the end of their life but still, 54k! My car is at 24k miles now and the shuddering on the rears is becoming a bit disturbing. Going to have to take it in.

They're gonna say that I'm driving (braking) too aggressively which is nonsense. This car shouldn't be behaving like this. You get a warranty fix on yours?


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[Thundercliffe81]

I see that EBC do front pads (yellowstuff) but no rears yet. My rears are shot I think.


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[Thundercliffe81]

Rears first. So, the Cali pets to seem to be sitting quite close to the discs but the pads seem to have a fair chunk of life left from the last photo of the rear (torch light on it)However, I the calliper is obviously sticking out quite far so where the pad would meet the calliper, it is actually quite low?

Fronts seem grand

Regardless, a hell of a lot of build up on the rear pads and general brake dust inside the callipers. The discs have improved but you can see the obvious imperfections and build up on them. Goes from smooth to raised build up.

Ideas? Suggestions?


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[Daggerit]

I don't know about your build ups but the distance issue that you're looking at in the first couple photos isn't a problem. The outer carrier of these calipers is stationary and only the centre section with the pad actually mounted to it moves. My front and rear brakes have some of the marking like yours, I just put it down to the parking brake and how the pads react with hot discs when it's applied after driving. I don't know if that's right or if I should be worried really, but I'm not just now.

If you speak to Audi about it then I'd be interested to hear if they say differently though!

 

[Thundercliffe81]

I don't know about your build ups but the distance issue that you're looking at in the first couple photos isn't a problem. The outer carrier of these calipers is stationary and only the centre section with the pad actually mounted to it moves. My front and rear brakes have some of the marking like yours, I just put it down to the parking brake and how the pads react with hot discs when it's applied after driving. I don't know if that's right or if I should be worried really, but I'm not just now.

If you speak to Audi about it then I'd be interested to hear if they say differently though!

So, forgive my shameful ignorance but, the pads actually push out during braking then? I.e. Towards the disc? And the outer carrier of the calliper wouldn't be as close to the disc under braking as the 'static' photo shows? Just so I'm a bit more clued up.

Better way to describe what's happening is, you know when you slam on and you feel the fluttering on the pedal from the ABS (anti locking mechanism etc)? Well, I'm feeling that flutter/shudder at mid level braking. Yeah, that's a better way to describe it.


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[Daggerit]

So, forgive my shameful ignorance but, the pads actually push out during braking then? I.e. Towards the disc? And the outer carrier of the calliper wouldn't be as close to the disc under braking as the 'static' photo shows? Just so I'm a bit more clued up.

Better way to describe what's happening is, you know when you slam on and you feel the fluttering on the pedal from the ABS (anti locking mechanism etc)? Well, I'm feeling that flutter/shudder at mid level braking. Yeah, that's a better way to describe it.


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So basically with a one piston setup like that, the carrier is static and the piston (on the inboard side of the disk in this case) as well as the pad carrier you can see are floating. It means when you press the brake pedal they try to push apart and in so doing they squeeze the disc with the pads.

Hard to explain without pictures or anything but if you google sliding single piston calipers I’d imagine something will come up to explain it better than me.

As for the judder, I’m not a professional but it sounds like you just have significant buildup so taking it out and using the brakes hard should help. An old break in trick is to go from 10-70 mph and back down to 10 (but not stopping) 4 or 5 times, using as much pressure on the brake pedal as possible each time to really get them hot. Then after the last one, drive for a mile or two without applying them (as much as possible) to let them fully cool.

I imagine that would help but it’s not something you want to have to be doing all the time!


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[Thundercliffe81]

So basically with a one piston setup like that, the carrier is static and the piston (on the inboard side of the disk in this case) as well as the pad carrier you can see are floating. It means when you press the brake pedal they try to push apart and in so doing they squeeze the disc with the pads.

Hard to explain without pictures or anything but if you google sliding single piston calipers I’d imagine something will come up to explain it better than me.

As for the judder, I’m not a professional but it sounds like you just have significant buildup so taking it out and using the brakes hard should help. An old break in trick is to go from 10-70 mph and back down to 10 (but not stopping) 4 or 5 times, using as much pressure on the brake pedal as possible each time to really get them hot. Then after the last one, drive for a mile or two without applying them (as much as possible) to let them fully cool.

I imagine that would help but it’s not something you want to have to be doing all the time!


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Will do mate. Cheers for that. I'll let you know I get on. Letting cool today might be a task like haha. Gorgeous weather.


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[Thundercliffe81]

So basically with a one piston setup like that, the carrier is static and the piston (on the inboard side of the disk in this case) as well as the pad carrier you can see are floating. It means when you press the brake pedal they try to push apart and in so doing they squeeze the disc with the pads.

Hard to explain without pictures or anything but if you google sliding single piston calipers I’d imagine something will come up to explain it better than me.

As for the judder, I’m not a professional but it sounds like you just have significant buildup so taking it out and using the brakes hard should help. An old break in trick is to go from 10-70 mph and back down to 10 (but not stopping) 4 or 5 times, using as much pressure on the brake pedal as possible each time to really get them hot. Then after the last one, drive for a mile or two without applying them (as much as possible) to let them fully cool.

I imagine that would help but it’s not something you want to have to be doing all the time!


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Will do mate. Cheers for that. I'll let you know I get on. Letting cool today might be a task like haha. Gorgeous weather.


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