Car struggles to start

MikeCrum1996 said:
I watched him do it all that comes up Is still 17748.. he resets it start it back up boom code comes straight back up
Click to expand...

Check they have timed the cams right... not seen this code come up before on cam to cam but based on the garages previous efforts I wouldn't put it past them to have this wrong...

Not knowing how the current guy did it I would check physical TDC of both cams and bottom end in case somethings up... I wouldn't rely on the timing marks at this point... I would also check the cam sensor trigger wheel position in case they took that off for some reason and not fitted it right and I would check the cam to cam to make sure they set that right... I would double check everything...

Its plausible that the sensor is faulty but would expect an implausible signal or open/closed circuit type code..

<tuffty/>
 
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<tuffty/> said:
Check they have timed the cams right... not seen this code come up before on cam to cam but based on the garages previous efforts I wouldn't put it past them to have this wrong...

Not knowing how the current guy did it I would check physical TDC of both cams and bottom end in case somethings up... I wouldn't rely on the timing marks at this point... I would also check the cam sensor trigger wheel position in case they took that off for some reason and not fitted it right and I would check the cam to cam to make sure they set that right... I would double check everything...

Its plausible that the sensor is faulty but would expect an implausible signal or open/closed circuit type code..

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
He said he checked it about 3 times making sure it was all lined up he told me he's worked on many 1.8t seat Leon's etc.. he seems certain it's the sensor I'm just worried that once the sensor is replaced.. the problem would still occur like the Car is worse in performance and starting now he said the is was advanced tooth he also said I shouldn't be have oil in my pancake pipe and the pipe leading back to the turbo..

Hopefully getting sensor done tomorrow as I need my car for work
 
<tuffty/> said:
Check they have timed the cams right... not seen this code come up before on cam to cam but based on the garages previous efforts I wouldn't put it past them to have this wrong...

Not knowing how the current guy did it I would check physical TDC of both cams and bottom end in case somethings up... I wouldn't rely on the timing marks at this point... I would also check the cam sensor trigger wheel position in case they took that off for some reason and not fitted it right and I would check the cam to cam to make sure they set that right... I would double check everything...

Its plausible that the sensor is faulty but would expect an implausible signal or open/closed circuit type code..

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
If you drop it in thurs morn I can whip the top off geeza but closed circuit on cam position sensor tells me 99% it's sensor but we won't fit it until I'm 100% positive its that fella


That's what the mechanic texted me after I showed him what you have told me
 
Closed circuit? thats not the code you mentioned? incorrect correlation is timing error between cams and crank... This is 'typically' due to something out of position...

At this point I am not saying its not the sensor as I have seen some bizarre shizzle over the years and anything is possible but its a new on one me...

Here is food for thought..

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7230221-Mk1-TT-Cam-sensor-error

I'd still check the condition and position of the sensor trigger wheel..

Hope it is the sensor though... you get your car fixed and we learn something new :)

<tuffty/>
 
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<tuffty/> said:
Closed circuit? thats not the code you mentioned? incorrect correlation is timing error between cams and crank... This is 'typically' due to something out of position...

At this point I am not saying its not the sensor as I have seen some bizarre shizzle over the years and anything is possible but its a new on one me...

Here is food for thought..

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7230221-Mk1-TT-Cam-sensor-error

I'd still check the condition and position of the sensor trigger wheel..

Hope it is the sensor though... you get your car fixed and we learn something new :)

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...

I bet you've never seen one with the top of the cam chain tensioner removed and the cct chain, cut, a few links removed and welded back together
It actually ran like that


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in my case the timing belt tooth out correlation error only came up every 100 miles or so.

totally unrelated to your timing belt - is the N75 unplugged for some reason. that runs with no noticeable boost - but also throws up an error.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17748/P1340/004928
- camshaft sensor is a cheap easy thing to do yourself (make sure you get the correct G40 though according to this wiki)

they is a way of checking TDC on the crank at the gearbox end too - which if different to the TDC using a wooden spoon etc points to a different issue (bent rods maybe?)
 
I always check physical TDC of the bottom end using a DTI on cyl 1 or a long screwdriver at least... there is a timing mark on the flywheel visible through the inspection hole to help validate and the timing mark of the damper pulley and metal cover at the timing belt end... (this is how I found out my crank pulley had spun)

Top end can be validated using the cams timing marks on the sprockets (gearbox end) and validate number of rollers between cams... you will need to line up the exhaust cam first then rotate the inlet while holding the exhaust cam to allow the tensioner to rise to its extended position... this is where you check cam to cam and roller count..

@MikeCrum1996 ...I also assume the new guy has sorted the missing bolt issue with the damper pulley? the bottom end won't ever line up if thats not sorted as the bottom timing mark will be out... it can only go on one way and the pic you posted its clearly out... if this has not been corrected then you won't know for sure that the bottom end is at TDC

Needs validating physically with a DTI/long screwdriver down the plug hole of cyl 1

No offence to the guy you are using but I have seen plenty of 'experts' miss something like this because they are not looking for it... just saying that you have worked on plenty of Leon's etc in the past is no real way to prove you know any better than the next person... dealer techs are 'fully trained' and most of those would not have even got this far down the road of diagnosing this issue let alone fixing it

<tuffty/>
 
I'm wondering if this has anything to do with it, it on the ross tech site,
  • When found in the 1.8T engine (possibly others too), check to make sure the correct G40 is installed (single gap versus 4 gap).
 
QuattroCalum said:
I'm wondering if this has anything to do with it, it on the ross tech site,
  • When found in the 1.8T engine (possibly others too), check to make sure the correct G40 is installed (single gap versus 4 gap).
Click to expand...
Can't imagine they changed it... this is in reference to the trigger wheel... early AEB 1.8t's had a single window trigger... later 1.8t's (such as the AUM in question here) will have a 4 window one as standard..

Only reason I can think of for removing it is to change the cam seals... if thats the case its most likely the correct trigger wheel but could have easily put it on wrong even though its keyed

<tuffty/>
 
<tuffty/> said:
Can't imagine they changed it... this is in reference to the trigger wheel... early AEB 1.8t's had a single window trigger... later 1.8t's (such as the AUM in question here) will have a 4 window one as standard..

Only reason I can think of for removing it is to change the cam seals... if thats the case its most likely the correct trigger wheel but could have easily put it on wrong even though its keyed

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...

I've read a few where the cam sprocket is on back to front but I'm pretty sure the belt won't run true if that had happened, it's definitely a strange problem. Could the cam chain itself have stretched or would that be a different code.
Does it have the genuine cam chain tensioner fitted, some cheap pattern ones bind inside throwing everything out of sync.
 
<tuffty/> said:
Can't imagine they changed it... this is in reference to the trigger wheel... early AEB 1.8t's had a single window trigger... later 1.8t's (such as the AUM in question here) will have a 4 window one as standard..

Only reason I can think of for removing it is to change the cam seals... if thats the case its most likely the correct trigger wheel but could have easily put it on wrong even though its keyed

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...

Wondering if their ham fisted mechanical ventures bent the trigger wheel now that would cause some problems, I'd love to get my hands on this car to find out whats wrong with it.
 
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QuattroCalum said:
I've read a few where the cam sprocket is on back to front but I'm pretty sure the belt won't run true if that had happened, it's definitely a strange problem. Could the cam chain itself have stretched or would that be a different code.
Does it have the genuine cam chain tensioner fitted, some cheap pattern ones bind inside throwing everything out of sync.
Click to expand...
Cam pulley can only fit one way (although probably wouldn't stop some people from trying lol)

Chains can and do stretch but it would have to be on its last legs to move it out enough to throw a code... never seen it before but who knows :)

Pattern tensioners vary immensely... I use a GSF one as its half the price of an OE one... but GSF supply whatever they get their hands on... I think I was lucky but have seen a few GSF ones fail... they look different to the one I used so different supplier different rubbish..

I still think there is something not put back together correctly... if it was fine before and all thats been done is two valves changed then my money is on an assembly error in the head...

I sure hope they put the cam caps back on in the right order too...

<tuffty/>
 
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QuattroCalum said:
Wondering if their ham fisted mechanical ventures bent the trigger wheel now that would cause some problems, I'd love to get my hands on this car to find out whats wrong with it.
Click to expand...
Innit

<tuffty/>
 
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A compression test would maybe throw some light on the situation, poor compression=difficult to start and poor performance.


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Stuart B said:
in my case the timing belt tooth out correlation error only came up every 100 miles or so.

totally unrelated to your timing belt - is the N75 unplugged for some reason. that runs with no noticeable boost - but also throws up an error.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17748/P1340/004928
- camshaft sensor is a cheap easy thing to do yourself (make sure you get the correct G40 though according to this wiki)

they is a way of checking TDC on the crank at the gearbox end too - which if different to the TDC using a wooden spoon etc points to a different issue (bent rods maybe?)
Click to expand...
He told me he lined it up with gearbox side, also replacing sensor tomorrow so if it not that I don't know what's next.. but he also said before he fits the sensor he is going to check the chain, boost pressure regulator and the actuator
 
QuattroCalum said:
A compression test would maybe throw some light on the situation, poor compression=difficult to start and poor performance.


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Click to expand...
I'm hoping he checks the pressure tomorrow.. will update once done.
If it's bad he might have to take the head off.. so far I've paid £2170 on This Car and I've had it less than 3months when I bought it, it was amazing to drive
 
I still haven't fitted the splash tray I bought 18 months ago - because mine is regularly like this. (as it is now) - you'll get there.

IMAG0865 20170906 212306449
 
Is that including buying it or just repairs and maintenance

MikeCrum1996 said:
I'm hoping he checks the pressure tomorrow.. will update once done.
If it's bad he might have to take the head off.. so far I've paid £2170 on This Car and I've had it less than 3months when I bought it, it was amazing to drive
Click to expand...
 
Tj 0785 said:
Is that including buying it or just repairs and maintenance
Click to expand...
That's just repair bills I paid £1200 for this car and paid £2170 I should of just spent £3000 on a car
But I'm eager to get this fixed
 
<tuffty/> said:
Cam pulley can only fit one way (although probably wouldn't stop some people from trying lol)

Chains can and do stretch but it would have to be on its last legs to move it out enough to throw a code... never seen it before but who knows :)

Pattern tensioners vary immensely... I use a GSF one as its half the price of an OE one... but GSF supply whatever they get their hands on... I think I was lucky but have seen a few GSF ones fail... they look different to the one I used so different supplier different rubbish..

I still think there is something not put back together correctly... if it was fine before and all thats been done is two valves changed then my money is on an assembly error in the head...

I sure hope they put the cam caps back on in the right order too...

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
I will show him This thread in the morning see what he thinks, I've only heard good things about this mechanic that's why I went to him but I'll have to wait and see.
 
£1200 is cheap Bet you didn't expect to spend that much on fixing it up . I paid £2700 3 years ago for mine and have easily spent that again on it and not gained a single bhp and It's not moved for the last year
Buying the cars the cheap bit with these
 
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incredibly cheap - does it have 300,000 miles or something?
 
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Tj 0785 said:
£1200 is cheap Bet you didn't expect to spend that much on fixing it up . I paid £2700 3 years ago for mine and have easily spent that again on it and not gained a single bhp and It's not moved for the last year
Buying the cars the cheap bit with these
Click to expand...
No I really didn't, I thought it would have some problems but nothing major
 
Is it possible the timing belt had previously snapped? And that's why it was so cheap? Or was the seller totally ill-informed in the last 2 years prices are all about the same average 3k 4-5 for a good one. They are a few for under 2k but they are sheds (like mine - but I bought the 1st one as usual - shiney things)
 
Stuart B said:
Is it possible the timing belt had previously snapped? And that's why it was so cheap? Or was the seller totally ill-informed in the last 2 years prices are all about the same average 3k 4-5 for a good one. They are a few for under 2k but they are sheds (like mine - but I bought the 1st one as usual - shiney things)
Click to expand...
No the belt went slack one day when I was driving down the a12 and shattered the valve.. the guy who previously had the car spent thousands on it so I know it was well looked after just had to happen to me...
 
I just got it of the phone from the mechanic and he said my timing chain was also out by one tooth.. so both timing belt and timing chain where both out by one tooth.. I hoping that sorts my starting problems and performance issues but will update again soon
 
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<tuffty/> said:
Cam pulley can only fit one way (although probably wouldn't stop some people from trying lol)

Chains can and do stretch but it would have to be on its last legs to move it out enough to throw a code... never seen it before but who knows :)

Pattern tensioners vary immensely... I use a GSF one as its half the price of an OE one... but GSF supply whatever they get their hands on... I think I was lucky but have seen a few GSF ones fail... they look different to the one I used so different supplier different rubbish..

I still think there is something not put back together correctly... if it was fine before and all thats been done is two valves changed then my money is on an assembly error in the head...

I sure hope they put the cam caps back on in the right order too...

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...
Tuffty, here's that thread I read regarding cam sprocket on back to front, it does fit but not properly.

http://www.passatworld.com/forums/b5-garage/215332-my-camshaft-sprocket-backwards.html

Your car should be back to normal now Mike :)
 
Last edited:
There was a user on here last year who got the cam signal error, he swore it wasn't mechanically out of alignment and blamed sensors saying he'd done loads of these motors.

Cut the story short, after weeks of frustration the cam timing was out, lol.

Just saw your update, that will be it!!!!
 
antwan64og said:
There was a user on here last year who got the cam signal error, he swore it wasn't mechanically out of alignment and blamed sensors saying he'd done loads of these motors.

Cut the story short, after weeks of frustration the cam timing was out, lol.

Just saw your update, that will be it!!!!
Click to expand...
I really hope so,the mechanic said he's retiming the everything as we speak
 
I don't know if its manufacturing tolerances or stretching but these can be querky.
Perfectly aligned until it's turned and then its a tooth out.
The only "fix" on my friends passat was align it a tooth out and once turned it was perfect.

Triple check for contact if you do that method before you start it, lol
 
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antwan64og said:
I don't know if its manufacturing tolerances or stretching but these can be querky.
Perfectly aligned until it's turned and then its a tooth out.
The only "fix" on my friends passat was align it a tooth out and once turned it was perfect.

Triple check for contact if you do that method before you start it, lol
Click to expand...
Have seen this were someone doesn't accont for the travel of the tensioner which is why I mentioned in a previous post you align the exhaust cam mark as this is a fixed point and then wind the inlet cam back to allow the top of the tensioner to fully extend... thats where you then do the 16 roller alignment as its the correct position for both cam timing marks to align with the mark on the cam caps...

<tuffty/>
 
<tuffty/> said:
Have seen this were someone doesn't accont for the travel of the tensioner which is why I mentioned in a previous post you align the exhaust cam mark as this is a fixed point and then wind the inlet cam back to allow the top of the tensioner to fully extend... thats where you then do the 16 roller alignment as its the correct position for both cam timing marks to align with the mark on the cam caps...

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...

The cam chain tensioner is a load of ****** really, was it a design exercise or something? It's for emission purposes (or so I read) as any adjustment is back to zero in the upper rev range.
It's not as if VAG are really bothered about emissions is it


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QuattroCalum said:
The cam chain tensioner is a load of ****** really, was it a design exercise or something? It's for emission purposes (or so I read) as any adjustment is back to zero in the upper rev range.
It's not as if VAG are really bothered about emissions is it


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Click to expand...
Mainly emissions but... on big turbo conversions you can get them to spool 500-1000 rpm sooner keeping it open..

On K03 turbo's engines the VVT is only used during the warm up cycle... on K04 turbo's engines its used once warm too but only across a small rev range

<tuffty/>
 
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<tuffty/> said:
Mainly emissions but... on big turbo conversions you can get them to spool 500-1000 rpm sooner keeping it open..

On K03 turbo's engines the VVT is only used during the warm up cycle... on K04 turbo's engines its used once warm too but only across a small rev range

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, sort of belt and braces approach with the SAIP system as well. I clearly have more to learn on the 1.8t yet.


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QuattroCalum said:
Thanks for the info, sort of belt and braces approach with the SAIP system as well. I clearly have more to learn on the 1.8t yet.


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Click to expand...
Wideband K04 turbo'd engines with VVT don't have SAI... ironically though K03 cars do

<tuffty/>
 
<tuffty/> said:
Wideband K04 turbo'd engines with VVT don't have SAI... ironically though K03 cars do

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...

I kinda ended up on the A3 platform via Tapatalk , I had a Vw Passat 1.8t and have now an A4 so never seen any of these with K04, they never had them from factory did they? 190 hp version had two smic and different injectors more boost and obviously software but still K03-23.


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QuattroCalum said:
I kinda ended up on the A3 platform via Tapatalk , I had a Vw Passat 1.8t and have now an A4 so never seen any of these with K04, they never had them from factory did they? 190 hp version had two smic and different injectors more boost and obviously software but still K03-23.


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Click to expand...
Slightly different engine on the inline stuff... I am talking about transverse 06a engines... inline was 058 (old valver) blocks then 06b (a variation of )

Can't speak for inline variants as I don't have any experience of them...

There was a 'k04' for the inline engines IIRC... but was more a K03s power capability wise

<tuffty/>
 
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