RS3 vs S3 in agility

[Ofarlig]

After trying to downgrade my S3 to a A3 and having the wife say that any change of car should be to something more fun, not less I started eyeing the RS3 as the next car. Downgrading is apparently not an option with my wife.

I have a few options of course with a few different setups. One would be getting a Porsche Cayman/Cayman S and then a used golf or something that to use during the winter. Things like a BMW M2, M240 or M140 are other options which would actually work in the winter time. And of course the RS3 which can be used year round as good as my S3 can. I have quite some time to decide as I wouldn't get anything new for at least 6 months.

I haven't test driven the RS3 yet as I am waiting for the new sedan to arrive at my dealer before I do so. I do have some questions to people who have experience with both these cars.

The S3 does feel like quite a bit disconnected in the corners, it feels FWD and understeers quite quickly. It is not a car where you feel glued to the road when accelerating up on a long turn at a highway entrance. It is a hoot when coming out of the corner and in a straight line but I do feel it lacks a bit on the twisty roads. Is the RS3 a bit more sporty in this regard? Any other thoughts?

 

[Ofarlig]

Nobody got anything to chime in? Comparisons betweenthe old RS3 (8V) and S3 are also appreciated.

 

[D0C]

I had a Golf R prior to my RS3. The Golf is obviously virtually identical to the S3 and certainly felt more nimble than my RS3. But I'd have the RS3 over the Golf for sheer theatre.

If you're looking for the sweetest handling car in this area then the RS3 probably isn't the car for you. The Golf/A45 AMG will probably be more the spec. But they won't match the drama of the Audi's 5-pot engine.

 

[Snake Pliskin]

The newly released 2017 face lift GOLF R looks a mighty impressive car, if performance & handling are top of your list.

RS3 trump cards are brute force power & amazing sound track IMO.

 

[Ofarlig]

Is the Golf really that better in handling? That is surprising to hear, thought it was just slightly ahead of the S3.

I wouldn't really need to go for the best handling car but I just feel the S3 is a bit disconnected when driving and not as planted as even the BMW 3-series I have been driving before. Just feel like I'd like something more fun in the corners so I can use the engine .

 

[Terminator x]

We have S3 and RS3. The latter is way better car imho. I've yet to experience understeer in it over 18 months and 29k miles.

TX.

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[D0C]

Is the Golf really that better in handling? That is surprising to hear, thought it was just slightly ahead of the S3.

I wouldn't really need to go for the best handling car but I just feel the S3 is a bit disconnected when driving and not as planted as even the BMW 3-series I have been driving before. Just feel like I'd like something more fun in the corners so I can use the engine .

I would say the Golf is quite a bit ahead of the RS3 in terms of handling. Certainly in the way it encourages you to fling it around. And I say that as someone who has had both at the same time for a few weeks. The Golf genuinely does feel far more nimble, and not that much slower in a straight line. Bang for you buck, it's hard to beat. But I'll reiterate, the RS3 feels more special if you can afford it.

 

[D0C]

We have S3 and RS3. The latter is way better car imho. I've yet to experience understeer in it over 18 months and 29k miles.

TX.

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You're not pushing it hard enough, TX!

 

[Terminator x]

Ha ha maybe not! At sane speeds on the public roads tbf no issues.

TX.

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[Steff s3]

terminator see your wheels bud, are they high gloss black or a Matt black colour!!
Mines are in getting refurbed an new tyres all round.
Could you send me a pic of them close up pls if possible as I don't want the guy doing them getting the wrong colour..cheers

 

[Ofarlig]

I would say the Golf is quite a bit ahead of the RS3 in terms of handling. Certainly in the way it encourages you to fling it around. And I say that as someone who has had both at the same time for a few weeks. The Golf genuinely does feel far more nimble, and not that much slower in a straight line. Bang for you buck, it's hard to beat. But I'll reiterate, the RS3 feels more special if you can afford it.

Ill have to try the Golf R I think. Never did before since wife thought a Golf was too boring and didn't want it. Guess ill have to test it now instead. Im a bit into the BMW M240i or M2de to BMW usually being more of a drivers car, really hard to get a test drive in them though and the interior is way worse.

Also would have to try the RS3 but I get the feeling it will be as numb as the S3 but with more engine and nicer sound. Price isn't really a factor as they are all in the same ballpark although I wouldn't waste money and get something equal for more money.

 

[AlexDR]

I had an S3 8V, RS3 8V and now a Golf R (should change my pic on here now...but I'm coming back to Audi at some point)

Golf is a fantastic all rounder and handles sweet round twistys but it is so boring, inside and out, it's just 'functional'..... The engine note is awful, really bad, goes fast enough but it makes me grimace when I approach the redline (I turn off the ridiculous fake V8 sound), the RS3 always made me smile when putting the foot down on a straight.

(S3 standard suspension was woeful, the Golf feels so much more planted but it's 'can I be bothered, when there is no drama?').

I wish Audi would hurry up and let you buy the new RS3, TTRS or RS1 (if that ever comes...)

 

[T-800]

I've had S3 / RS 3 (8P & 8V)
Loved em all but tired of Audi dealer lack of knowledge and understanding of their models, especially when issues arise.
Sold the RS3 and bought a FL Golf R which is so much better in the handling department in my opinion.
Yes I miss the RS3's noise(8V mind) but that's all.

To me the R is a better all round package.

 

[AlexDR]

As a daily driver, no doubt. Mine isn't now.

 

[D0C]

When I had my Golf R I loved everything about it apart from the interior, which is just too plain, if well put together. And the engine sounded appalling. The RS3 solves the interior and engine sound issues, while sacrificing the agility of the Golf. If Audi could get the handling similar to the Golf R then it would be a 5* car in all the magazines.

That said, I really flung my RS3 around some twisty roads this morning and it was pretty good. You definitely have to grab it by the scruff of the neck and it's not necessarily pretty, but it will handle if needed.

 

[Ofarlig]

Thanks for all the responses! It was these kinds of dicussions I was hoping for when I made the thread. I never would have thought that so many people prefer the Golf R in the handling department, now I really need to test drive it, just contacted VW to arrange that. The question is why the S3 can't have the same handling as the Golf R as it is practically the same car. The wife really thinks the Golf is too boring though, so it might be a hard sell.

Worth to note is that any car we get would be a daily driver for the wife to take to work, I walk to work so I only drive it on some weekends/evenings or on longer trips (ski trips to the mountains are frequent every year). So whatever car we get would need to be a bit drawn back (meaning no manuals or ultra hard suspension track cars).

 

[D0C]

Test drive them all and I'd be keen to hear your thoughts.

 

[Ofarlig]

Test drive them all and I'd be keen to hear your thoughts.

I will post back here once I get some test drives in. Got a test drive booked for a Porsche Boxster (all they had) in like 3 weeks, hope to arrange a BMW M2 and/or M240i for the same day as the dealers are right next to each other. Hopefully will have tested the new Golf R by then. The RS3 have to wait until my dealer gets it in, got a sales rep there that will give me a call once they do.

Any more fun discussion are always fun in the meantime, I cannot hear enough about cars . Maybe there are some cars I have overlooked?

 

[Terminator x]

I've had S3 / RS 3 (8P & 8V)
Loved em all but tired of Audi dealer lack of knowledge and understanding of their models, especially when issues arise.
Sold the RS3 and bought a FL Golf R which is so much better in the handling department in my opinion.
Yes I miss the RS3's noise(8V mind) but that's all.

To me the R is a better all round package.

Traitor

TX.

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[T-800]

Traitor

TX.

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I can't help it TX.

It's good to try different cars.......

 

[Snake Pliskin]

Mag ride set to dynamic and wide front tyres = great handling

I've experienced the RS3 being absolutely ragged round the tight twisty bike circuit at Cadwell Park on an Audi showcase day.
Jeeeeeeeeeees these cars can corner when you want them too ........ tyres and brakes were a bit worse for wear though
The RS3 was lapping quicker than the R8 (albeit just v8 not V10).

 

[Terminator x]

No one wants to hear that Snake, they all know it handles like a dog

TX.

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[Ofarlig]

Can update the thread now. I got to test drive a Boxster today, wasn't a S and wasn't a Cayman (although the new one is the same as the Boxster but with a roof).

I came away from the Porsche dealership thinking my S3 was better than I thought. First feelings in the Porsche was feeling cramped, I am only 186 cm tall but I couldn't sit properly with my legs and still be close enough to the steering wheel. Having my legs in the normal angle ment my knee hitting the underside of the console which hurt over bumps. Touching the stalks and stuff in the Porsche just made them feel cheap, flimsy and using the indicator was not as nice as in the Audi. I actually liked the sound of the engine, that's how I want a 4 cylinder to sound, raw and loud.

But enough about the soft stuff, what about the actual performance? Very nimble, was nice driving a RWD car again, can also feel the engine isn't in the wrong place . What I did feel was that the agility and all is not that useful on normal roads, sure it feels a bit more fun when putting the power down coming out of a corner but not too much. When accelerating the Boxster did not feel faster than the S3 really, maybe slightly but not that much, PDK is better than the S-tronic though.

All in all I came away from there being more happy with the S3, it is remarkable how much fun it is compared to something like the Boxster and in the same time able to carry 4 people to the ski slopes. The Boxster is of course more fun but the difference is smaller than I imagined, not big enough to warrant having 2 cars when I barely need one.

 

[Leo-RS]

Can't believe the Golf R is getting talked about in the same sentence as the RS3.

Golf R is a poorer mans version of Audi's S3. Testament to that is the cheap £225pm lease deals and the image they now have. The Golf R is today's version of the Citroen Saxo VTS, driven in their majorities by an age group below the age of 30. Driven in their majorities by nobs that will hammer it through 30's at 60's with all their pals in the car.

Every time I see a Golf R on the road, all I think is cheap £250pm lease and every Barry Boy up and down the country driving them. Sorry, but that's the image they have, yes, it's a sweeping generalisation and yes there will be sensible middle aged people driving them too but in their majorities they are driven by the boy racer brigade.

Now, I'm not saying the Golf R isn't any fun, it gets good reviews and seems to better the S3 in terms of fun (not pace), but it has a serious image problem and that in the main was caused by VW flooding the market with £250pm cars that huge masses could afford.

The Audi S3 is a little classier. As is the A45 AMG, these two are definitely up a notch on the Golf R.

RS3 is in a completely different league to all those 2.0t engined cars though, why on earth is it being talked about in the same sentence as the Golf R? We have talked quite a lot over the last few weeks about the costs of the new RS3's, payments of £650+ month with £5-£10k upfront deposits. These figures are for a different demographic market and are a million miles away from the £250pm Golf R figures. This can only be seen as a good thing, keeps the brand and the badge from being cheapened.

It's perhaps a snobby attitude to have but I'd hate for the RS3 to go down the same path as the Golf R.

Anyone that thinks the cars are even remotely close in terms of performance..



This is a standard 400ps TTRS vs a tuned 435hp A45 AMG. Talk of the A45 along with the Golf R/S3, fair enough but the RS3 and TTRS are in a completely different league to a Golf R.

 

[D0C]

Lol! Ok, so I had a Golf R for two years before my RS3. It was on the super cheap lease deals of October 2014. Absolute bargain and a hoot to drive fast. Far more nimble down a twisty road than the RS3 and more fun in this specific scenario, truth be told. Steering and brake feel was superior, too (I had them both for a two week overlap so could really compare). I also think the Golf looks nice.

But the RS3 looks, feels and sounds far more special. And so it ****** well should - I'm paying a stack more cash for it! @Leo-RS is right, they became far too common. I can't say I've seen too many driven stupidly. The M135i seems to be the idiots car of choice near me.

Back to the Golf R, my only gripes were that it didn't feel special enough inside and the engine sounded truly appalling. The RS3 seeemed the car to right these two wrongs. I couldn't be happier.

 

[Ofarlig]

I really don't care if the car is common or not, I own the car to have fun in, that does not diminish from others having the same car. If a Golf R is more fun in total (driving, sitting in and whatnot) which im not saying it is as I have not tested either yet, why wouldn't I chose that car then? Straight line speed is just one factor in how fun a car is. I recently turned 30 anyway so the look suits me .

As for cheapening the brand and opening up the cars to the masses, in my mind any car financing will do this. Makes people who don't have the money for the car able to buy it to begin with. All these cars would be a lot more rare if people had to fork up the full amount upfront. So if it is exclusivity we want that would be the way to go, no car financing.

 

[Leo-RS]

Completely disagree and your point is a flawed argument. Do you think those that are genuinely wealthy pay cash outright for their cars?

What financial sense is there having huge amounts of capital tied up in rapidly depreciating assets? Wealthy people make their capital work for them, they don't plunge it straight into quick depreciation items. You will find many millionaires lease their Lamborghinis and such like.

Financing an Audi V10 R8 will typically cost you around £2k a month. How can you cheapen the R8 by offering finance on it? £2k per month is an amount that is higher than the average UK salary. You can have 8 leased Golf R's for the same amount.

The Golf R has been cheapened and its image tarnished by VW opening them up to all walks of life. It's supposed to be their flagship model but Golf TDI's were more expensive on a monthly basis.

If the RS3 was available for the same price as an Audi A1, the same thing would happen. The RS3 just wouldn't feel special anymore as every Tom **** and Harry would have one.

Without car finance, new cars would just not sell. Who has £50k just sitting there lying around in their bank accounts for a new car purchase? Without new cars selling, there would be no money for development of new types, the whole industry would come to a thundering halt. Nothing wrong with a deferred capital finance plan such as PCP. You don't buy houses outright so how can you be expected to buy expensive £50k cars outright? In some areas of the country you can still buy property for £50k. If you had £50k in your bank account, you would have to be a complete idiot to bring your balance down to zero and purchase an Audi RS3, get your £50k into that flat, generate a monthly income and PCP your RS3. You still have the flat and you still have the RS3.

 

[Rs1]

Car financing is great it enables people who may not have the money to pay a lot up front to buy with a reasonable deposit and payment...forget all the snobbery...may change though with all this talk about pcp financing rules being tightened.
The RS3 is a great car I've done 40k on it now and still going strong..tempted still to upgrade but we will see

 

[Ofarlig]

Completely disagree and your point is a flawed argument. Do you think those that are genuinely wealthy pay cash outright for their cars?

What financial sense is there having huge amounts of capital tied up in rapidly depreciating assets? Wealthy people make their capital work for them, they don't plunge it straight into quick depreciation items. You will find many millionaires lease their Lamborghinis and such like.

Financing an Audi V10 R8 will typically cost you around £2k a month. How can you cheapen the R8 by offering finance on it? £2k per month is an amount that is higher than the average UK salary. You can have 8 leased Golf R's for the same amount.

The Golf R has been cheapened and its image tarnished by VW opening them up to all walks of life. It's supposed to be their flagship model but Golf TDI's were more expensive on a monthly basis.

If the RS3 was available for the same price as an Audi A1, the same thing would happen. The RS3 just wouldn't feel special anymore as every Tom **** and Harry would have one.

Without car finance, new cars would just not sell. Who has £50k just sitting there lying around in their bank accounts for a new car purchase? Without new cars selling, there would be no money for development of new types, the whole industry would come to a thundering halt. Nothing wrong with a deferred capital finance plan such as PCP. You don't buy houses outright so how can you be expected to buy expensive £50k cars outright? In some areas of the country you can still buy property for £50k. If you had £50k in your bank account, you would have to be a complete idiot to bring your balance down to zero and purchase an Audi RS3.

No it isn't flawed, of course finance opens up the cars to more people, you admit so yourself when saying cars wouldn't sell without finance. I agree wealthy people do use finance to leverage their capital better, I use finance now and then when I do not want to sell off assets to fully fund it directly (and I am just a normal middle class 30 year old), I normally pay it off within a matter of months though.

But the fact remains, if you let people finance cars more people buy them, people with less money can all of a sudden get them. That said I do not care how people buy their cars, if you have the money and choose to finance because you have your money invested, good for you. If you cannot spend the money outright and finance for that reason, also good for you.

I do agree with that the car industry would crumble without car financing, they live by getting cars to the masses that cannot afford to buy outright. Most people don't have the money to pay outright for the cars they own, and nor should they really, thats not what I am saying. For your R8 example, having £2k to spare every month is going to be more common than having the £140k+ to spend on it.

I just find it is weird to talk about a worry that the RS3 would be cheapened. If you believe the Golf R got cheapened down by being available to the masses through financing the same argument can be had about the RS3 just that the "masses" that got access to it were more well off than the ones getting access to the Golf R. Some wealthy person could sit there being fussed up about all these "everyman workers" who cheapened the RS brand by being able to lease the RS3 for a mere £650 a month.

It is easy to sit on a high horse but always remember there's always someone that has a bigger horse so you can always be looked down upon too. I just try my best not to look down on people to begin with. Therefore I do not care if I have the same car as just the average person, if that is the car that gives me what I want for the money I want to pay, perfect.

On a completely different note, sounds like a dream with a property for only £50k.

 

[D0C]

To me it's simple math. If you can earn more return investing your money in the stock market or wherever it may be, than what you will pay in interest on your car loan/finance, then go for finance.

At the moment Audi are clipping you for 6%. It's been a good year for equity markets but over the long term it's pretty close at those rates of interest. Still, I tend to leave my money invested and go the finance route. Who knows when the next rainy day is, too.

 

[Ofarlig]

To me it's simple math. If you can earn more return investing your money in the stock market or wherever it may be, than what you will pay in interest on your car loan/finance, then go for finance.

At the moment Audi are clipping you for 6%. It's been a good year for equity markets but over the long term it's pretty close at those rates of interest. Still, I tend to leave my money invested and go the finance route. Who knows when the next rainy day is, too.

Agreed, I just want to make it clear that I do not have a problem with using finance to buy your car, could not care less how it is bought.

I just have a problem with the whole idea of a car being cheapened and something to stay away for because of it, someone "higher up" in the wealth chain can say that about any car available on finance really so it just seems like a weird thing to talk about.

 

[Terminator x]

Even on finance the RS3 is not "cheap" which is a good thing imho as it will keep most people away. Only us in the know will know

TX.

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[Ofarlig]

Even on finance the RS3 is not "cheap" which is a good thing imho as it will keep most people away. Only us in the know will know

TX.

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What is cheap? It is all relative to your income and/or assets.

I can understand the idea of wanting to have something more unique actually, I never fancied being like everybody else. Don't really care who it is being kept away though .

 

[Terminator x]

The more expensive it is per month the less people that can afford it, agreed? RS3 is up there imho so the masses will not be able to afford it. I couldn't give a f**k what people do or don't earn btw.

TX.

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[Leo-RS]

Agreed, I just want to make it clear that I do not have a problem with using finance to buy your car, could not care less how it is bought.

I just have a problem with the whole idea of a car being cheapened and something to stay away for because of it, someone "higher up" in the wealth chain can say that about any car available on finance really so it just seems like a weird thing to talk about.

I think you've missed the point I was making, it's nothing to do with the wealth chain, its about the image a particular car has and how common that car has become.

The Citroen Saxo VTS was an excellent buy around the millennium, such a fun little car, a go kart, it was quick and nimble and out performed cars at 2-3x its price bracket. Then the Barry Boys got hold of them as Citroen flung out cheap finance deals, free insurance etc. The Saxo VTS then become the Max Power car, common as muck, Chavved up to the hilt and then got a bad rep due to every 18/19yr old boy ragging them around supermarket car parks. The Golf R is already going this way.

Many people like to buy a car that is a rarity or is rarely ever seen. Okay, the A3 is one of the most common cars on the road but you very rarely see the RS variants. The Golf is even more common but you do see a lot of their flagship Golf R's on the road. When VW decided to throw them out to the masses on cheaper deals than even their own TDI variants of the car, the Golf R then become a very common car.

This is down to its price point, £250pm or even cheaper in some cases opened the market to everyone regardless of their income profile. You could probably be unemployed and still fund a Golf R purchase. £650pm on car finance on the other hand will keep 90% of people away, it's a mortgage amount for some. If this amount keeps the masses away, the car is then a rarity and you will hardly ever see any of them around. That's the point I'm trying to make.

No doubt the Golf R is an excellent purchase, probably the bargain of the century. It's an outstanding deal. However, to its own detriment though, if every one else has one then it loses its exclusivity appeal.

Anyway, thread has gone off on a tangent now and little to do with what the O.P posted.

Forgetting the Golf R and going back to Audi S3 vs RS3, the Audi S3 of course is the more sensible buy, the difference in cost between the two on a real time basis with S3 discounts available and the cheaper finance rates available make the S3 the better buy.

For those that want that extra 10-20% though and the rarity of the car, then the RS3 is the one to have. One of the reasons I chose the Saloon was that it will be even rarer than the rare RS3 hatch, you will see even less of those around.

 

[R32 mad]

If you are comparing the pre facelift RS3 to the Golf R then yes that will handle better. I am in the market to purchase the facelift RS3 and according to all the early reviews it seems the Audi have done the trick with new car. With its new lighter weight engine, software change on the haldex plus a new faster acting actuator pump that delivers torque to rear wheels sooner and changes to the suspension geometry makes the new RS3 a chassis that finally lives up to the engine. Cant wait for a test drive myself.

The reviews say the car handles neutrally in corners, and when you turn traction control off the car oversteers, sounds fantastic. Who would want a Golf R now. When you can have an RS3 that actually goes round corners with no understeer.

 

[Ofarlig]

I think you've missed the point I was making, it's nothing to do with the wealth chain, its about the image a particular car has and how common that car has become.

The Citroen Saxo VTS was an excellent buy around the millennium, such a fun little car, a go kart, it was quick and nimble and out performed cars at 2-3x its price bracket. Then the Barry Boys got hold of them as Citroen flung out cheap finance deals, free insurance etc. The Saxo VTS then become the Max Power car, common as muck, Chavved up to the hilt and then got a bad rep due to every 18/19yr old boy ragging them around supermarket car parks. The Golf R is already going this way.

Many people like to buy a car that is a rarity or is rarely ever seen. Okay, the A3 is one of the most common cars on the road but you very rarely see the RS variants. The Golf is even more common but you do see a lot of their flagship Golf R's on the road. When VW decided to throw them out to the masses on cheaper deals than even their own TDI variants of the car, the Golf R then become a very common car.

This is down to its price point, £250pm or even cheaper in some cases opened the market to everyone regardless of their income profile. You could probably be unemployed and still fund a Golf R purchase. £650pm on car finance on the other hand will keep 90% of people away, it's a mortgage amount for some. If this amount keeps the masses away, the car is then a rarity and you will hardly ever see any of them around. That's the point I'm trying to make.

No doubt the Golf R is an excellent purchase, probably the bargain of the century. It's an outstanding deal. However, to its own detriment though, if every one else has one then it loses its exclusivity appeal.

Anyway, thread has gone off on a tangent now and little to do with what the O.P posted.

Forgetting the Golf R and going back to Audi S3 vs RS3, the Audi S3 of course is the more sensible buy, the difference in cost between the two on a real time basis with S3 discounts available and the cheaper finance rates available make the S3 the better buy.

For those that want that extra 10-20% though and the rarity of the car, then the RS3 is the one to have. One of the reasons I chose the Saloon was that it will be even rarer than the rare RS3 hatch, you will see even less of those around.

I think I understand you more now, I must admit not having English as my first language sometimes makes me read things too literal and makes me miss some of the common ways to express yourself. I now think I see more what you are getting at and I agree. I also enjoy having cars that aren't really the most common one (can be a cheaper and older car to be unique too).

And yes, price is the easiest way to make something more rare and more exclusive I agree.

I think I need to test drive a RS3 to be honest. If it is like my S3 but adds 10-20% I would think it is worth the extra £9k I have to add compared to a new S3.

 

[D0C]

If you are comparing the pre facelift RS3 to the Golf R then yes that will handle better. I am in the market to purchase the facelift RS3 and according to all the early reviews it seems the Audi have done the trick with new car. With its new lighter weight engine, software change on the haldex plus a new faster acting actuator pump that delivers torque to rear wheels sooner and changes to the suspension geometry makes the new RS3 a chassis that finally lives up to the engine. Cant wait for a test drive myself.

The reviews say the car handles neutrally in corners, and when you turn traction control off the car oversteers, sounds fantastic. Who would want a Golf R now. When you can have an RS3 that actually goes round corners with no understeer.

Well time will tell, but some reviews I've read still reckon it's not the most fun car out there. It should be improved though.

As for the Golf R, it's much cheaper so will still find plenty of buyers and is a great car.

 

[JamesBaby]

I had the 8v S3 prior to my RS3 and can tell you that the RS3 is a totally different car and much more agile. The S3 is a boat by comparison. I had it for 2 months before I sold it and got the RS3 because I just couldn't bare the boat like handling, mundane power delivery, horrible sound, and 1.6Tdi looks.

The RS3 is special, and feels special, and has road presence but can also be subtle too.

A Gold R shouldn't even be in the equation of an RS3 IMO. Different car for a different market.

 

[AlexDR]

If you are comparing the pre facelift RS3 to the Golf R then yes that will handle better. I am in the market to purchase the facelift RS3 and according to all the early reviews it seems the Audi have done the trick with new car. With its new lighter weight engine, software change on the haldex plus a new faster acting actuator pump that delivers torque to rear wheels sooner and changes to the suspension geometry makes the new RS3 a chassis that finally lives up to the engine. Cant wait for a test drive myself.

The reviews say the car handles neutrally in corners, and when you turn traction control off the car oversteers, sounds fantastic. Who would want a Golf R now. When you can have an RS3 that actually goes round corners with no understeer.

You mentioned RS3 and understeer in the same sentence, put your hardhat on....