0-60 times with 350bhp in audi s3

[Ess_Three]

I've heard very good things about the roller bearing IHIs and by all accounts they do provide as close to the best of both worlds as you'll ever get from a 1.8(or 2.0)T engine.

Even if Jabbas rollers read a shade high compared to some, their cars will still be making a genuine 340+ BHp...which will make for a quick car.

I'd love to try a decent IHI just to compare...maybe one day.

Back to the original subject matter though:
I think I'd be looking to do some bottom end work not just fit a big turbo - which is the logical next step for most people anyway.
Better rods, bolts, lighter flywheel etc...to make a bottom end safe to 7500, if not a shade higher.
Then, 18" wheels, a big turbo, and a 7500+ reliable engine WILL give an achievable 0-60 in second S3.

I'd also dump the standard flywheel/clutch set up and go for a single piece flywheel and uprated clutch to make sure you can actually deploy the torque as quickly as required to hit 5.xx second 0-60s.

 

[simch]

Agree on the clutch.

Not so sure about uprated internals on the s3 motor, there are a few 140k miler stock 1.8T motors out there with IHIs. A lot of tuners who do IHIs at say 350hp leave the sotck motors alone, the biggest thing with stock motors (particualrly larger port AGUs) is the valve heads breaking off at sustained 8k revs plus! For safety now, one piece valves are becoming popular for the IHI boys, to give that dafety margin. And whilst there are a few 1.9 and 2.0 rebuilds comng on, this is often on higher mileage motors and stock 1.8ts. The S3 BAM et al motors have different internals as I am sure you know. BY tuners accounts these are safe for the sort of power outputs we are looking at here.
If you ever fancy more than 350-360, (dont we all want more than we have!!) then rods and crank and possibly a 1.9 + botton end is worth considering, but when i do mine (!) I'll just make sure the bottom end is in spec and leave it well alone.
Although this is my first BAM motor, they are quite different and much stronger on rods and pistons skirts, and reportedly safe for real big numbers.

There are so many stock 1.8ts with IHIs on them making great numbers, I suppose it comes down to whether you want o spend say an extra 2k on some extra peace of mind........although again I have heard that one of the worst things you can do with a 1.8T is strip the motor down......! ! Tehy're put together very well at the factory!!

I may have the valves on mine when its done, as the "man in the shed" VW head guru is about 2 miles from my house and i know him pretty well!!
But bottom end I'll leave alone, apart from flywheel and clutch!!!!

May wait for edward to have his done then and see how he gets on with it and more importantly, HOW MUCH IT ALL COSTS!!!

 

[ChriS3]

Well I'll offer a different opinion based upon driving Chris's fine example...

Shove in the back = torque, not power.

My K04 S3 had more of a shove in the back feel than Chris's 330+ BHP car, but couldn't sustain it.
Mine hit massive torque (330lb-ft) at 3000 ish...Chris's doesn't feel like it's spooling up 'till after 3500.

Can I just get my tuppence in here (I think you knew I would). The way in which you had your wastegate/actuator going you were getting a boost spike way in excess of any other K04 I've seen yet. There's not many people would take a K04 that far, hence your massive torque.

It's possible to do the same with the BT set-up controlled by an Apexi, and it would be interesting to see the results.

Also it's worth noting that Glen is extremely particular when modding cars and has exceptional realisation of the affect that an upgraded part has. Anal but good.

There isn't as much lag as you may be inferring. The actuator kicks off at 2750rpm, turbo's spooling by 3000rpm, and full boost is about 3750rpm.

For back road thrashing, you have to drive them differently...
In mine I would be using 3rd and 4th...in Chris's I was using 2nd and 3rd.

Definately a different way of driving the two. Your K04 hit max power at just over 5200rpm, there's an extra 1200rpm to play with on the BT so you do find yourself in lower gears and more revs.

Chris's car feels like a standard factory model in terms of road manners...seamless, smooth power delivery with no fuss.

Just how it should be. This is how Jim and I had agreed to get the car running. His concern was that a big intial spike of boost would make the rest of the rev range feel flatter. That's how he does the maps for the K04's. Smoother, flatter, torque 'lines'.

Once the valves, rods, pistons, etc, are changed out I'll be playing with the boost and seeing how things change.

My old S3 was a peaky, aggressive old hector that required much more effort to get the best out of...more like the turbo torque delivery of old - almost like a switch.

I'd love to compare the two sometime. I'll be begging Dave Joseph for a blast next time I see him.

 

[jojo]

Also it's worth noting that Glen is extremely particular when modding cars and has exceptional realisation of the affect that an upgraded part has. Anal but good.

This is too true, Glen, you are Anal!

 

[Ess_Three]

Maybe I am anal...

I guess I'm also blessed with being able to differentiate between amount of money spent and gains found.
I don't mind admitting when I've spent money on the say so of a 'tuner' and had no gains despite my wallet being lightened substantially.
I only wish everyone was so blessed...it would save lots of arguments.

If it's not repeatably faster against the clock, or repeatably more powerful on a dyno, it's not a gain.
*** dynos are worth ****** all to me.


Chris's S3 is a fine conversion...the best compliment being that it feels like stock, plus some. A lovely car to drive.

now, if he'd only see sense and change those damn Eibach coilovers for the Bilstein/H&R combination, he could sort the chassis out once and for all too!

 

[Ess_Three]

Agree on the clutch.

Not so sure about uprated internals on the s3 motor, there are a few 140k miler stock 1.8T motors out there with IHIs. A lot of tuners who do IHIs at say 350hp leave the sotck motors alone, the biggest thing with stock motors (particualrly larger port AGUs) is the valve heads breaking off at sustained 8k revs plus! For safety now, one piece valves are becoming popular for the IHI boys, to give that dafety margin. And whilst there are a few 1.9 and 2.0 rebuilds comng on, this is often on higher mileage motors and stock 1.8ts. The S3 BAM et al motors have different internals as I am sure you know. BY tuners accounts these are safe for the sort of power outputs we are looking at here.
If you ever fancy more than 350-360, (dont we all want more than we have!!) then rods and crank and possibly a 1.9 + botton end is worth considering, but when i do mine (!) I'll just make sure the bottom end is in spec and leave it well alone.
Although this is my first BAM motor, they are quite different and much stronger on rods and pistons skirts, and reportedly safe for real big numbers.

There are so many stock 1.8ts with IHIs on them making great numbers, I suppose it comes down to whether you want o spend say an extra 2k on some extra peace of mind........although again I have heard that one of the worst things you can do with a 1.8T is strip the motor down......! ! Tehy're put together very well at the factory!!

I may have the valves on mine when its done, as the "man in the shed" VW head guru is about 2 miles from my house and i know him pretty well!!
But bottom end I'll leave alone, apart from flywheel and clutch!!!!

May wait for edward to have his done then and see how he gets on with it and more importantly, HOW MUCH IT ALL COSTS!!!

I'd be tempted to leave the engine pretty much alone, as you say....as it's pretty good.

I would get rid of that heavy flywheel and fit a lightened one, and I'd ditch the weak flywheel bolts and fit something stronger (although, with a lightened flywheel you shouldn't need to)

Beyond that, I'm never keen on revving hydraulic lifters beyond mid-7000s...you never know how they are going to behave....so personally, I think I'd be sticking to 7500ish as a limit.

 

[simch]

Come on Edward!! Get your wallet out fella!!

 

[edward_harris]

lol will be on the 23rd of feb thats when it's booked in! £5400 worth! does include a clutch + new cat though!!

 

[RichA3Turbo]

power from 2500rpm on an IHI? i don't think so. on a 1.8T you are looking at a good 1000rpm higher than that before you get 'power' of any significance... Believe me...i've used it for 2.5 years now!

IHI is a totally different league, as is the GT28RS (both are very similar) and i reckon you'd be hard pushed to notice the difference between them... Totally not comparable to a K04.

Rich

 

[mad max]

Right...from memory...so please forgive me if I've got this wrong!
for a 1:1 gear, the formula is this:
(60,000 divided by (Final Drive Ratio x Tyre Revs Per Mile))

So to get the individual in gear speeds, you use:
(60,000 divided by (Final Drive Ratio x Tyre Revs Per Mile)) all divided by the Individual Gear Ratio

For an S3 with the figures you gave:
FD = 4.2
Gear (2nd) = 2.11
Tyre Revs Per Mile = 828 (for a Toyo 225/40/18)
Tyre Revs Per Mile = 834 (for a Toyo 225/45/17)


(60,000 / (4.2 x 828)) / 2.11

(60,000 / (3477.6)) / 2.11

(17.253278) / 2.11

= 8.1769 MPH per 1000 Revs in 2nd.
x7 (for 7000 RPM limit)
= 57.2383 MPH at the limiter in 2nd.

Or, you need 7400 to just break the 60 MPH barrier.
Those calculations are for 225/40/18 tyres....as mine was on when I got the dyno speed test showing 57MPH in 2nd!


For 225/45/17s:

(60,000 / (4.2 x 834)) / 2.11

(60,000 / (3669.6)) / 2.11

(16.350) / 2.11

= 7.7490 MPH per 1000 Revs in 2nd.
x7 (for 7000 RPM limit)
= 54.24355 MPH at the limiter in 2nd.

Or, you need 7800 to just break the 60 MPH barrier.
Those calculations are for 225/45/17 tyres....like I said, a high revving 1.8T!!



Of course, if my calculations are ******...or the figures wrong...all of the above is worth jack-****!!

so what are our chances against the clingons spock

 

[Ess_Three]

so what are our chances against the clingons spock

Oh sorry, did that lot confuse you?
And here's me trying to help out...

BTW...Klingon has a 'K' when you are referring to the Star Trek type.

 

[ChriS3]

Any idea of tyre revs per mile for a 225/35/19?

 

[Ess_Three]

Any idea of tyre revs per mile for a 225/35/19?

Jeez Chris...do I have to do everything for you?
Toyo list the Revs per mile on their site...BUT this is just for a Toyo tyre.
They DO differ...but as a guide:
Toyo list a 225/35/19 T1-R as 824 revs per mile.


So....to get the individual in gear speeds, you use:
(60,000 divided by (Final Drive Ratio x Tyre Revs Per Mile)) all divided by the Individual Gear Ratio

For an S3 with the figures you gave:
FD = 4.2
Gear (2nd) = 2.11
Tyre Revs Per Mile = 824 (for a Toyo 225/35/19)


(60,000 / (4.2 x 824)) / 2.11

(60,000 / (3460.8)) / 2.11

(17.33703) / 2.11

= 8.2166 MPH per 1000 Revs in 2nd.
x7 (for 7000 RPM limit)
= 57.5162 MPH at the limiter in 2nd with a 7000RPM limit

Or 7400 RPM to just crack 60 MPH.

 

[ChriS3]

Jeez Chris...do I have to do everything for you?

Gotta give you something to do out there.

Home next week?

*edited: Cheers for the above

 

[jojo]

Jeez Chris...do I have to do everything for you?
Toyo list the Revs per mile on their site...BUT this is just for a Toyo tyre.
They DO differ...but as a guide:
Toyo list a 225/35/19 T1-R as 824 revs per mile.


So....to get the individual in gear speeds, you use:
(60,000 divided by (Final Drive Ratio x Tyre Revs Per Mile)) all divided by the Individual Gear Ratio

For an S3 with the figures you gave:
FD = 4.2
Gear (2nd) = 2.11
Tyre Revs Per Mile = 824 (for a Toyo 225/35/19)


(60,000 / (4.2 x 824)) / 2.11

(60,000 / (3460.8)) / 2.11

(17.33703) / 2.11

= 8.2166 MPH per 1000 Revs in 2nd.
x7 (for 7000 RPM limit)
= 57.5162 MPH at the limiter in 2nd with a 7000RPM limit

Or 7400 RPM to just crack 60 MPH.

Would you like to do the calculations for 235/35 R19 tyres lol.


Maybe I can hit 60 in second with a K04 .........





..... then again, maybe not.

 

[Ess_Three]

Gotta give you something to do out there.

I have plenty to do...both my areas (Water Injection and Oil Export) ar broken and in bits...so lots to fix!

Home next week?

Tuesday...1 day early.
Got an HSE meeting in Tullos first thing Wednesday.

*edited: Cheers for the above

No probs.
Maybe now you'll do some work for the mighty Pecten, instead of surfing the net?
Especially considering the obscene amount of money we pay you!

Or are you not in the office today?

 

[Ess_Three]

Would you like to do the calculations for 235/35 R19 tyres lol.


Maybe I can hit 60 in second with a K04 .........

..... then again, maybe not.

Am I the only one that did basic maths at school?
Toyo list a 235/35/19 T1-R as 814 revs per mile.


So....to get the individual in gear speeds, you use:
(60,000 divided by (Final Drive Ratio x Tyre Revs Per Mile)) all divided by the Individual Gear Ratio

For an S3 with the figures you gave:
FD = 4.2
Gear (2nd) = 2.11
Tyre Revs Per Mile = 814 (for a Toyo 225/35/19)


(60,000 / (4.2 x 814)) / 2.11

(60,000 / (3418.8)) / 2.11

(17.5500) / 2.11

= 8.3175 MPH per 1000 Revs in 2nd.
x7 (for 7000 RPM limit)
= 58.223 MPH at the limiter in 2nd with a 7000RPM limit

Or 7250 RPM to just crack 60 MPH.


...and with a K04 it'll be dead as a Dodo by then...

 

[ChriS3]

Am I the only one that did basic maths at school?
Toyo list a 235/35/19 T1-R as 814 revs per mile.

The maths is actually fairly simple, however you know where to find the revs per mile and I'm too lazy to look. Besides, why have a dog and bark yourself.

I have plenty to do...both my areas (Water Injection and Oil Export) ar broken and in bits...so lots to fix!

Not so good. Can you fix that yourselves or are you going to be kicking my guys off so you can get someone out to fix it for you? Took us over a year to get the beds. Busy place!

Maybe now you'll do some work for the mighty Pecten, instead of surfing the net?
Especially considering the obscene amount of money we pay you!

Or are you not in the office today?

I was supposed to be working from home today, but I've not managed to click on the icon that lets me log-in. Maybe tonight...

Nothing obscene about my four shillings and sixpence a week.

 

[Ess_Three]

The maths is actually fairly simple, however you know where to find the revs per mile and I'm too lazy to look. Besides, why have a dog and bark yourself.

Pah!
You pen pushers are all the same...

Not so good. Can you fix that yourselves or are you going to be kicking my guys off so you can get someone out to fix it for you? Took us over a year to get the beds. Busy place!

We're on it...got Weirs out and a few other Vendors too, but we're struggling with people bedded-up with this flu bug.

Your mob's bed spaces are off limits...we made you build new cabins to house the men for the project so we're not allowed to steal them!

I was supposed to be working from home today, but I've not managed to click on the icon that lets me log-in. Maybe tonight...

I see...get to it!

Nothing obscene about my four shillings and sixpence a week.

 

[mad max]

Oh sorry, did that lot confuse you?
And here's me trying to help out...

BTW...Klingon has a 'K' when you are referring to the Star Trek type.

i was referring to the female of the species which is as everyone knows spelt with a (c) jeeeez i thought everyone knew that

 

[Ess_Three]

Could be worse...you could have been referring to the small pieces of 'waste material' that cling onto bottom hair!

 

[darnich]

http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=95502&Audi

lists the FD as 3.32, but that has to be balls, else it would nearly hit 70 in 2nd...

My FWD will pass 60mph with ease and yes it nearly hits 70mph in second, 102mph in third, 131mph in fourth and 150+++mph in fifth,...it hasn't got a sixth though.....

 

[Ryanc]

Hello,this is really ancient now.Well the s3 is absolutely crap to launch as standard,it really needs stiffening up at the back(hence i broke both back springs!)Also the haldex is too slow to engage,now the trick is too pull up the handbrake before you launch(somehow locks the diff quicker) loads of revs then dump the clutch.Also as glen states the gears/ratios suck(long throw aswell) and no matter what you do a 5 speed box is better.Best i mananged was a 13.6@106mph.According to vag-com on a few runs i've hit 60 in 5.5s but never knew how accurate that was?

 

[Dave_Bayern]

If anyone actually wants a proper 0-60 time and a lot more besides, then take a look at www.virtualcp.fr Runs on a PDA with GPS and is designed for track and performance use, buy the £17 full verion pretty much gives you telemetry too, so amazing for the money.

 

[tommo-turbo]

Has anyone tried the longer gear ratio's that HPA sell?

I'm guessing nobody has tried the HPA longer gears then? lol!

Rich

 

[sitrials]

Hello,this is really ancient now.Well the s3 is absolutely crap to launch as standard,it really needs stiffening up at the back(hence i broke both back springs!)Also the haldex is too slow to engage,now the trick is too pull up the handbrake before you launch(somehow locks the diff quicker) loads of revs then dump the clutch.Also as glen states the gears/ratios suck(long throw aswell) and no matter what you do a 5 speed box is better.Best i mananged was a 13.6@106mph.According to vag-com on a few runs i've hit 60 in 5.5s but never knew how accurate that was?

is yours standard as the best i can managed at pod was 14.1 at 96mph all my mods are listed below!

 

[ChriS3]

is yours standard as the best i can managed at pod was 14.1 at 96mph all my mods are listed below!

Ryan's was one of the first Big Turbo conversions on here.

 

[Ryanc]

is yours standard as the best i can managed at pod was 14.1 at 96mph all my mods are listed below!

As chris states it had a proper bigger turbo conversion (ie not mtm) figures varied but in the region of 330-365bhp depending on which dyno.Also could manage a sub 2 seconds 60ft at pod(killed a standard clutch..oops)
Quickest s3 at pod i've ever heard of at pod,ask mr giac!

forgot to mention i've sold it now ,if you need any advice on tuning then i'd be happy to help.

 

[shane j]

sorry for jumping in fellas, im suprised you dont think a car with 350bhp carnt hit low 5s with 4 wheel drive even with short box, i have a sprint blue S3 on order (company car). but i have a Focus ST, which has a proven 0-62 in 5.84 secs so im sure you boys with 350/4 wheel drive can eat that, ps my focus is runnung 4.5inch cat back, 100 cell sport cat, 3" turbo downpipe, RS500 size radtec intercooler, GGR CAIS, and dreamscience 4 stage ECU upgrade, 311bhp and a massive 361lb of torque all proven cheers shane.

 

[Ryanc]

I'm sure it could have hit low 5's but i have no proof. 4.5",i hope thats just the tailpipe.

 

[shane j]

yeah its mongoose the catback 4.5" to be honest ive hated the pipes from day one to big, the missis takes the focus to work everyday, i have a A4 1.8T s-line chiped to 222bhp (company car) at the mo carnt wait for the S3 1st weel in june, ive test drove the S3 it doesnt feel anywhere near as quick as the focus, i will search to see which is the best ECU uprade for the S3, it neads it LOL.

 

[sitrials]

yeah the S3 in standard form is a bit pony! but once remapped they seem to kick you back after all they do almost double boost pressures!
i found this calculator via the help of prawn you type in your 1/8mile time and speed then it tells you an approx 0-60 time mine worked out 5.3secs from here http://www.wallaceracing.com/0-60_equation.php
1/8m 9.02secs
1/8mph 78.12
that worked out 5.3secs to 60
what do you lot think??

 

[jamos3]

As chris states it had a proper bigger turbo conversion (ie not mtm) figures varied but in the region of 330-365bhp depending on which dyno.Also could manage a sub 2 seconds 60ft at pod(killed a standard clutch..oops)
Quickest s3 at pod i've ever heard of at pod,ask mr giac!

forgot to mention i've sold it now ,if you need any advice on tuning then i'd be happy to help.

so what car do you have now anythin good, been thinking of getting rid of mine it,s been a great car though will be sad to see it go i was always getting compliments on it too.might take the new s3 for a test drive tomorrow if they will let me

 

[Ryanc]

nothing too expensive or fancy just something thats does the job.Begins with E ends in O and i'm sure you can fill in the rest.

 

[jojo]

nothing too expensive or fancy just something thats does the job.Begins with E ends in O and i'm sure you can fill in the rest.

WOW posh! you have an Enzo!

What version did you go for Ryan?, 6 or an FQ?

 

[sitrials]

the 6 is by far the best! new ones are pony compared to the old ones!

 

[Ryanc]

Oldie for dedicated track use.The 8 and 9 's are still very good though but i'm not spending £20k to sling it round a track.

 

[Ess_Three]

sorry for jumping in fellas, im suprised you dont think a car with 350bhp carnt hit low 5s with 4 wheel drive even with short box, i have a sprint blue S3 on order (company car). but i have a Focus ST, which has a proven 0-62 in 5.84 secs so im sure you boys with 350/4 wheel drive can eat that, ps my focus is runnung 4.5inch cat back, 100 cell sport cat, 3" turbo downpipe, RS500 size radtec intercooler, GGR CAIS, and dreamscience 4 stage ECU upgrade, 311bhp and a massive 361lb of torque all proven cheers shane.

*Groan*
Here we go again...
You can have as much power and torque as you like, but if the gearing doesn't allow you to hit 60 in 2nd, you are going to loose between 0.5 and 1.0 seconds changing gear just before the 60 MPH mark.

That's why S3s don't do as low 0-60 times as many think.
Look at the 0-80 times though...different story!

To hit fast 0-60s you need longer 1st and 2nd gears...the lad on the TT forum with the big turbo MRC tuned car and longer HPA gearing (Cainey, I think) is consistantly hitting early 4s...I know as I watched my 996 C4S get humped by him at GTI International last year despite me running a flat 5.

 

[Ryanc]

glen,how are doing mate? Are you coming down to inters this year?

 

[Ryanc]

caney runs the same ihi kit as my old car,although high boost and 50 shot of nos thats why you got humped,good effort though.