Poll:
"Does a car, equipped with keyless entry, provide additional ways or methods to steal it, compared to one with a conventional key?"
Yes.
Advanced key - easy theft
- Thread starter Twizzler
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Poll:
"Does a car, equipped with keyless entry, provide additional ways or methods to steal it, compared to one with a conventional key?"
Yes.
Dont tell people to read up if you cant be bothered yourself. The evidence is there. You have admitted that you dont have the attention span to watch it.
The flat refusal to acknowledge that an additional method to steal a car makes it easier to steal is really, really funny.
0B1001001
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Precisely. Keyless increases security by exactly zero in this respect.
Are you a politician? Given you cannot be bothered to answer a direct, simple question, it is beginning to look that way, alas.
I'll rephrase in the most simple English I am capable of constructing, without jargon to offend those without search engines:
2. Keyless offers an additional method of starting a car when compared to a normal key. How does that equate to better security?
Irrelevant and highly amusing, implying I am somehow "envious" that I didn't purchase this option on my S3 as I couldn't afford it... This thread's dragging on due to your defence of keyless equating to an improvement in security without offering an explanation as to how this magic occurs.
Perhaps with keyless you get an invisible gorilla that hides under the car, ready to pounce on the would-be thief should they have the temerity to approach your car or perhaps a force field springs up when you leave the proximity of your car, who knows...!
Liquidfusion-S3
I fall to peer pressure!
Awww, I am enjoying the debate, however I think, now the level of debate has dropped new lows, it is time to end the debacle before some go too far. You are all entitled to your opinions but it seems I cannot have mine and present an equally valid argument. I won't worry about my car being stolen because it might never happen again, at least none of my keyless have and even if it is I will just go and get another one and move on. Perhaps some here should take this advice and not make an argument out of nothing and just beg to differ....
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It would seem to me that to steal a car that requires a key to open the door and start it requires the following, lets not count in stealing the key as that's obviously the same for both types.
*Break in, most obvious way is to smash a window, which sets the alarm off, damages the vehicle and reduces its value
*Lean in remove panel and plug in a lead into the OBD port. Programme a key.
*Use key to open the dead locked door, start car and drive off.
Now as I see it to steal a car with keyless entry and keyless start.
*Obtain the key code.
*Open the door. Get in and drive away.
I may be missing something here, please let me know if I have.
Now once again car theft is at extremely low levels. The likely hood of having your car stolen is very low. The fact that one type may be easier to steal and offer significant lower risk to the criminal is almost irrelevant You could probably leave your car unlocked for the next five years and not suffer from it.
There is no need to get wound up about either method of access and engine starting. If there was believe me the insurance premiums for one or the other would reflect a differing overall risk.
Relax, breath and enjoy your car!
*Break in, most obvious way is to smash a window, which sets the alarm off, damages the vehicle and reduces its value
*Lean in remove panel and plug in a lead into the OBD port. Programme a key.
*Use key to open the dead locked door, start car and drive off.
Now as I see it to steal a car with keyless entry and keyless start.
*Obtain the key code.
*Open the door. Get in and drive away.
I may be missing something here, please let me know if I have.
Now once again car theft is at extremely low levels. The likely hood of having your car stolen is very low. The fact that one type may be easier to steal and offer significant lower risk to the criminal is almost irrelevant You could probably leave your car unlocked for the next five years and not suffer from it.
There is no need to get wound up about either method of access and engine starting. If there was believe me the insurance premiums for one or the other would reflect a differing overall risk.
Relax, breath and enjoy your car!
Blackwhite
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Poll:
"Does a car, equipped with keyless entry, provide additional ways or methods to steal it, compared to one with a conventional key?"
Yes.
What happened to the poll?
Well that was pretty convincing.
40 seconds to program a new blank key for an Audi A5
10 seconds to program a new blank key for a Range Rover Evoque
Would that count as being easier than actually stealing the physical conventional key?
No doubt some would choose not to believe.
40 seconds to program a new blank key for an Audi A5
10 seconds to program a new blank key for a Range Rover Evoque
Would that count as being easier than actually stealing the physical conventional key?
No doubt some would choose not to believe.
Perhaps it has been deemed that a poll is just opinion of those who bother to reply, not fact..
^ You're very light on the "fact" count, so please don't vote or "like" 
Only for a poll to be truely reflective of public opinion I quote, " There two main methods. The first is "random" sampling, the second "quota sampling". With random sampling, a polling company either uses a list of randomly-drawn telephone numbers or email addresses (for telephone or some Internet polls); or visits randomly-drawn addresses or names from a list such as an electoral register (for some face-to-face surveys). The polling company then contacts people on those telephone numbers or at those addresses, and asks them to take part in the survey."
This isn't one, and will only reflect a opinion of some individuals that haven' t been randomly selected. Please don't me what I can or can't do here you are not the forum police. However I won't waste my time....
This isn't one, and will only reflect a opinion of some individuals that haven' t been randomly selected. Please don't me what I can or can't do here you are not the forum police. However I won't waste my time....
That 10 second RR theft is just comical.
Has anyone tried to claim its no less secure yet?
Has anyone tried to claim its no less secure yet?
Are your windows made of glass? Surely not, how silly of the manufacturers to make cars so easy to break into, somebody should report them to watchdog..
Watching Watchdog, I'd say it was a little biased. In all cases shown the keys had to be programmed (I assume from the OBD port), and in all cases shown the doors were already open, in order for the whatever device the 'specialist' had, to be connected. You need the key to get in, or break the window.
I didn't watch it, as I watched a factual wildlife program, however I am sure that in the zealous journalistic pursuit of the truth they conspired to twist the 'facts'. None would watch it otherwise, personally I would prefer such programs to persue real consumer injustices....
Hmmm that's a bit rich, coming from you.
You're quite happy telling us what to do and believe, name call, and berate us for being causing panic and hysteria.
And yet you still insist you're nothing like PA.
Of course not.
What's that phrase again?
"There's none so blind, as those who will not see"
£5 says it was about ostriches...
Obviously JLR have been listening to some scaremongers in the pub......as they are now issuing a security update for their cars.
Or they may have read about it in the press and that's why they're spending a lot of time and money addressing a non existent problem.
Or they may have read about it in the press and that's why they're spending a lot of time and money addressing a non existent problem.
Want to see how quick you can get through a locked car door (VW Audi inner groove key)?
(And no, you can't start the car with the lock pick)
And in the case of the 07-12 BMW's it was possible to break a window and reach in to connect to the OBD port, without setting the alarm off.
So yes, I can see why you thought the program was biased by already having an open door, but a locked door and alarm are easily defeated, so doesn't really present a barrier to plugging in a device into the OBD port.
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That Bora was produced between 98 and 05, so not quite current.......
My old 1976 Vauxhall Viva was easier
- but it never got stolen
My old 1976 Vauxhall Viva was easier
- but it never got stolen
^ it's the same inner groove key
But there are plenty more vids showing much more recent models if you wish to look for yourself
But there are plenty more vids showing much more recent models if you wish to look for yourself
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Can I just ask as this argument has raged on
How many of the new a3/s3 have been stolen in the uk, either keyless or with keys?
As without official numbers tbh it's all just pointless speculation
How many of the new a3/s3 have been stolen in the uk, either keyless or with keys?
As without official numbers tbh it's all just pointless speculation
s3_trev
Northern Ireland
He might not be matching up with other peoples opinions, or facts (if you want to call them that!) but don't start spamming just because he disagrees.
Most of this thread is just idle scaremongering no matter what way you try to potray it, if you picked AK it's not the end of the world if you didn't well done clap yourselves on the back. Just be grateful and make sure you get GAP!
Most of this thread is just idle scaremongering no matter what way you try to potray it, if you picked AK it's not the end of the world if you didn't well done clap yourselves on the back. Just be grateful and make sure you get GAP!
I'm not seeing threads about cars actually getting stolen though, I mean when bmws were getting stolen daily their were threads on the bmw forums everywhere, it w put me off buying a 135i coupe a couple of yrs ago, but so far haven't heard of any a3 or s3 cars actually been stolen, up until this happens it's all speculative
People here are still missing the point that these are skilled criminal gangs, stealing to order - not opportunists. If they are stealing to order, they will have your car whether it has keyless ignition or not. It's no surprise that there's a big correlation between the models of car that are ordered from these gangs, and models that have keyless ignition - usually as standard. Being an option on the A3/S3 means that the organised gangs are unlikely to invest in the equipment required to crack this model, because a lot of the cars they will be stealing won't even have the option anyway.
In reference to the above article - the security experts say that 80% of cars have keyless ignition these days, so if you take the stats about what is taken in proportion to these numbers, it looks to me like much more cars with conventional keys are taken than keyless ones!
As usual, there's a lot more going on here than most people seem to think by the looks of the above posts.
In reference to the above article - the security experts say that 80% of cars have keyless ignition these days, so if you take the stats about what is taken in proportion to these numbers, it looks to me like much more cars with conventional keys are taken than keyless ones!
As usual, there's a lot more going on here than most people seem to think by the looks of the above posts.
This is the guy who claimed he was getting and also exceeding manufacturers' fuel economy figures (the completely doctored ones done on a rolling road) because he had a 'light right root'. When he was told this was nonsense he eventually ended up producing a convenient picture of a trip at the right time as evidence (from a Ford, supposedly his old car, not an Audi) that told the story of a journey where he'd achieved 70 odd mpg.....by travelling at an average speed of 24mph. One might think he didn't have an Audi.....
Draw your own conclusions. It is slightly amusing to see a few people now having a go at him though.
Meanwhile, those of us on planet Earth can see this is a problem. With a key you actually have to have something in your possession, but with any form of keyless entry that physical possession is gone. If you get a man-in-the-middle, such as questionable independent garages being able to service these, then you have a problem. Waiting for a deluge of stolen cars on forums as confirmation is a red herring in security. The problem exists (and in London it is very prevalent) and it will get worse because public/private cryptography needs to be implemented properly. Technically, it's going to get easier and easier as the tools get more widely available and if you're a thief you'll want to go this route because it's far less risky and it is very repeatable.
The manufacturers, as per usual, hope this will all just go away eventually if they keep quiet. It won't. Software companies have found this out the hard way.
...apart from the key you have to have on you. Keyless doesn't literally mean you have no key!
I think some of your post is getting rather personal, it's about time this thread was closed down now.
No, BMW had a flaw and then patched it. You can't pick a single month and base your assertions on it, based on a single model as well! You are doing your own argument a big disservice here. I could go and find a car that had a very weak physical lock (and there are LOADS), and tell you that all physical locks must be rubbish based on this - but that would be a very poor argument (as I'm sure you are well aware).
That is not what I said and you're not wrapping your head around the security implications of this. Electronic copying means the physical possession aspect of a key is gone. It can be copied without anyone needing to even see your key.
These threads only get personal because of some of the nonsense posted on them. There shouldn't be too much of a problem seeing the problem here.
Manual keys come with an additional route of attack (lockpicking, not very hard) that does not exist with an electronic key. Therefore it's worse, by your logic.
And your physical key can be copied without having to have scanning equipment, or the lock picked pretty easily. Or even just get the key number from the book in the glove box that I bet most people keep there and get one ordered.
Oh, guess this is wrong then.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/60264/bmw-owners-offered-fix-hi-tech-theft
Let's see...... I can electronically copy a key, either with access to a car that will take a couple of minutes, or get cosy with an independent dealer, get a key copy and walk up to the car, get in and drive off without any suspicion whatsoever. No lockpicking skills required, which with wafer keys are not always terribly trivial.
Sorry, but this is a problem.
Once again.......you need physical access to the key. I'm sorry, but this is bordering on idiocy and being an apologist for car manufacturers. With the electronic method you don't need physical access to anything.
