Haldex Traction Control

tchoeA3

tchoeA3

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Hello everyone,

I have a 2016 Pre facelift A3 Quattro, with a 118,000km.

My A3's Haldex Quattro system seems to not be working. Only my front wheels spin during acceleration in snow and wet roads. Took a video to confirm and did hard acceleration in snow and observed that no power is being sent to the rear wheels with the front wheels spinning excessively.
UPDATE: Had the car diagnosed at my Audi dealership and they replaced the Haldex Pump and did a haldex service following TSB 2049499 and claimed that power is now being sent to rear wheels and that Haldex system is working properly. After the Pump replacement and driving the car on dry roads the traction seemed to improve a little but during hard acceleration in 1st gear and sometimes 2nd Gear, traction control light flashes for a few seconds but seems like the car grips after. When I have it in dynamic mode however, it seems as if the traction light hardly flashes.. weird.
Note: The car is and always has been stock, and is never launched or abused. I know the Haldex is a front wheel biased and sends power to the rear when needed, but the Gen 5 haldex is a proactive system where there should not be much of a delay in switching power yes? I may be overthinking as my CPO warranty ends soon and I want to make sure my Haldex system isworking 100% properly, and not needing a possible new control module, or a clutch, or... a new rear diff. The snow has melted so I have not gotten the chance to film my rear wheels during acceleration but I will do that as well. I have booked a diagnosis appointment again with my dealership as I wanted a second opinion from a technician. Is there anything I should possibly ask them to check for specifically? And anyone else get similar issues? Any Input would be greatly appreciated! Cheers.
 
What condition are your tyres? Are they of similar tread depth between front and rear?
If the front are worn more than the rear that could cause the fronts to spin slightly.
Check the so called 'donut' for wear/tears.
images
 
Try turning the TC off completely. press and hold the button for 10 seconds or so. Then see what happens.

IMO the traction control is overly sensitive / aggressive and its annoying. Kills the power by too much and for too long. With mine being stage 2 if I turn it off all that happens is it breaks traction and then bounces off the rev limiter which is even worse. My haldex is working fine but the combination of nearly 4oolbs foot of torque and rubbish / worn tyres isnt really helping when its wet. Its fine in the dry though.
 
pburv said:
What condition are your tyres? Are they of similar tread depth between front and rear?
If the front are worn more than the rear that could cause the fronts to spin slightly.
Check the so called 'donut' for wear/tears.
images
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply, I will ask them to check the 'donut' during my next inspection. The tires are brand new Pirellis with fresh depth, so I am sure that should not be the issue. I feel like maybe the TC system is too sensitive, but I have seen videos online where it does not flash at all on other A3's and S3's.
 
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Damo S said:
Try turning the TC off completely. press and hold the button for 10 seconds or so. Then see what happens.

IMO the traction control is overly sensitive / aggressive and its annoying. Kills the power by too much and for too long. With mine being stage 2 if I turn it off all that happens is it breaks traction and then bounces off the rev limiter which is even worse. My haldex is working fine but the combination of nearly 4oolbs foot of torque and rubbish / worn tyres isnt really helping when its wet. Its fine in the dry though.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, I totally agree, maybe it is just too sensitive of a system. I am completely stock when it comes to performance, and also have brand new pirellis on. I have seen videos online where the TC does not flash at all on other A3's and S3's during acceleration, I live in Canada however so maybe the TC system is a bit more sensitive? I doubt that, but I will try another go soon with all TC system off and see what happens.
 
tchoeA3 said:
Hello everyone,

I have a 2016 Pre facelift A3 Quattro, with a 118,000km.

My A3's Haldex Quattro system seems to not be working. Only my front wheels spin during acceleration in snow and wet roads. Took a video to confirm and did hard acceleration in snow and observed that no power is being sent to the rear wheels with the front wheels spinning excessively.
UPDATE: Had the car diagnosed at my Audi dealership and they replaced the Haldex Pump and did a haldex service following TSB 2049499 and claimed that power is now being sent to rear wheels and that Haldex system is working properly. After the Pump replacement and driving the car on dry roads the traction seemed to improve a little but during hard acceleration in 1st gear and sometimes 2nd Gear, traction control light flashes for a few seconds but seems like the car grips after. When I have it in dynamic mode however, it seems as if the traction light hardly flashes.. weird.
Note: The car is and always has been stock, and is never launched or abused. I know the Haldex is a front wheel biased and sends power to the rear when needed, but the Gen 5 haldex is a proactive system where there should not be much of a delay in switching power yes? I may be overthinking as my CPO warranty ends soon and I want to make sure my Haldex system isworking 100% properly, and not needing a possible new control module, or a clutch, or... a new rear diff. The snow has melted so I have not gotten the chance to film my rear wheels during acceleration but I will do that as well. I have booked a diagnosis appointment again with my dealership as I wanted a second opinion from a technician. Is there anything I should possibly ask them to check for specifically? And anyone else get similar issues? Any Input would be greatly appreciated! Cheers.
Click to expand...

First you need to determine what's what ie is there a problem and if so how big. That can be done with a scanner like VCDS which can measure/log wheel and axle rotation deltas ( ie is something wrong), what is the demand for AWD (is that control working) and what is the response (pump current= clutch engagement).
If you do not own VCDS getting one may not be worth it for this problem alone and you might pay someone to do it for you.
There is very liitle information on Haldex failures apart from the tuners woes but you are not in their category (it seems). Out of curiosity re the maintenance intervals I have sone some logging and I'm fairly sure you will not get useful suggestions from bloggers.


I
 
Morris39 said:
First you need to determine what's what ie is there a problem and if so how big. That can be done with a scanner like VCDS which can measure/log wheel and axle rotation deltas ( ie is something wrong), what is the demand for AWD (is that control working) and what is the response (pump current= clutch engagement).
If you do not own VCDS getting one may not be worth it for this problem alone and you might pay someone to do it for you.
There is very liitle information on Haldex failures apart from the tuners woes but you are not in their category (it seems). Out of curiosity re the maintenance intervals I have sone some logging and I'm fairly sure you will not get useful suggestions from bloggers.


I
Click to expand...
The dealership obviously has a VCDS I assume? I will ask them to check the following things, however I can already expect their answer to be "It is working properly" since they will not go out of their way after they replaced the pump already. If I get no luck from them, I guess I'll look for a shop in my city that can check the following. Thanks for the reply.
 
This might help you guys out if you are having issues with your Quattro / Haldex.
 
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tchoeA3 said:
The dealership obviously has a VCDS I assume? I will ask them to check the following things, however I can already expect their answer to be "It is working properly" since they will not go out of their way after they replaced the pump already. If I get no luck from them, I guess I'll look for a shop in my city that can check the following. Thanks for the reply.
Click to expand...
Dealers have a VAG scanner which is quite sophisticated (expensive) and inmportantly connects to the VAG server which provides diagnostic help. VCDS reports what the power modules say, diagnosis is by the user. Modules are essentially universal devices and only the relevant outputs are useful in a particular application, otherwis just gibberish. Again the user provides the knowledge. So a dealer will not need or want to use VCDS. There is an established procedure for troubleshooting and for paying the techs and those procedures do not favour doing logging on the road as they are statistically less profitable for all concerned. An independent Audi repair shop follow the same procedures but may be more willing to do more detailed testing. Independents will own VCDS as their volumes can't pay for the top shelf VAG service. They can pay a subscription to Ross-Tech to get live on line advice otherewise the VCDS is the same as the amateur version. Whew, much more than what you asked.
Bottom line is that it is not easy to find someone to do road testing. Haldex is a reliable piece of machinery which seldom fails and so little knowledge. The only active/moveable part is the pump and so that is assumed the reason for failure.
Your best bet is to either find a black and white condition to be witnessed by the dealer when the transfer box does not work (must be or W) or get a credible report from an idependent. T dealer is unlikely to pay any attention to your own scanner conclusions.
Good luck.
 
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pburv said:
This might help you guys out if you are having issues with your Quattro / Haldex.
Click to expand...

Maybe apply a bit of critical thinking to this informercial. At the begining he says that there is a critical problem ie the oil congeals early if used a lot. If parsed word by word that is correct but it does it convey the entire truth. The user can measure the relevant operating characteristics of the transfer box under road conditions if he has the requisite skills and scanning equipment and presumably he does as he is going to attempt repairs himself.
What I see (logging operation instance/demand level/ clutch engagement/ rotation deltas) under my driving conditions pushed a bit to engage AWD is that HALDEX operates very intermittently and then only momentarily. That is what Audi claims ie operation under select conditions and in anticipation to some extent, not used a lot.
User reports divide very sharply on oil gunk. It happens a lot or it does not happen. The "Tunas" are the ones with the problems. Whya oh why?
 
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Morris39 said:
Dealers have a VAG scanner which is quite sophisticated (expensive) and inmportantly connects to the VAG server which provides diagnostic help. VCDS reports what the power modules say, diagnosis is by the user. Modules are essentially universal devices and only the relevant outputs are useful in a particular application, otherwis just gibberish. Again the user provides the knowledge. So a dealer will not need or want to use VCDS. There is an established procedure for troubleshooting and for paying the techs and those procedures do not favour doing logging on the road as they are statistically less profitable for all concerned. An independent Audi repair shop follow the same procedures but may be more willing to do more detailed testing. Independents will own VCDS as their volumes can't pay for the top shelf VAG service. They can pay a subscription to Ross-Tech to get live on line advice otherewise the VCDS is the same as the amateur version. Whew, much more than what you asked.
Bottom line is that it is not easy to find someone to do road testing. Haldex is a reliable piece of machinery which seldom fails and so little knowledge. The only active/moveable part is the pump and so that is assumed the reason for failure.
Your best bet is to either find a black and white condition to be witnessed by the dealer when the transfer box does not work (must be or W) or get a credible report from an idependent. T dealer is unlikely to pay any attention to your own scanner conclusions.
Good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the well informed reply, much appreciated. The only reason I lean towards the dealership is due to my warranty I have with them, as well as the warranty extension I was considering after my CPO warranty ends. What is the point of going to a independent when I will be paying for warranty from Audi right.

After driving around more after the haldex pump/filter/oil replacement service, I notice that my AWD does not engage always, only sometimes it seems. Today, I did a hard acceleration from a red light in Sports mode and ESC sport, and noticed a significant amount of wheel spin for 2 seconds, and other times it grips on fine. Perhaps a video of this happening in slow motion should convince the dealer that my Haldex is not working properly. I would launch the car for the best video, however.. you can say that I am too much of a coward to launch the car right now, so maybe waiting for snow to drop again would be the best setting for the video. I feel like it maybe is the haldex clutch not working always, or even the Haldex ECU module as I have seen that been an issue on other 8V/MQB platforms. I am just hoping I do not need a new Rear Diff. I will keep you updated on what happens at the dealer.
 
Morris39 said:
Dealers have a VAG scanner which is quite sophisticated (expensive) and inmportantly connects to the VAG server which provides diagnostic help. VCDS reports what the power modules say, diagnosis is by the user. Modules are essentially universal devices and only the relevant outputs are useful in a particular application, otherwis just gibberish. Again the user provides the knowledge. So a dealer will not need or want to use VCDS. There is an established procedure for troubleshooting and for paying the techs and those procedures do not favour doing logging on the road as they are statistically less profitable for all concerned. An independent Audi repair shop follow the same procedures but may be more willing to do more detailed testing. Independents will own VCDS as their volumes can't pay for the top shelf VAG service. They can pay a subscription to Ross-Tech to get live on line advice otherewise the VCDS is the same as the amateur version. Whew, much more than what you asked.
Bottom line is that it is not easy to find someone to do road testing. Haldex is a reliable piece of machinery which seldom fails and so little knowledge. The only active/moveable part is the pump and so that is assumed the reason for failure.
Your best bet is to either find a black and white condition to be witnessed by the dealer when the transfer box does not work (must be or W) or get a credible report from an idependent. T dealer is unlikely to pay any attention to your own scanner conclusions.
Good luck.
Click to expand...

This is a video form today of me doing a lunch at 80% throttle.
 
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Tchoe975 said:

This is a video form today of me doing a lunch at 80% throttle.
Click to expand...

Yep . You certainly have an issue.
Hope you persuade your dealership to investigate and sort it for you.
Good luck.
 
tchoeA3 said:
Yeah, hopefully all goes well.
Click to expand...

A slight squeak of the fronts as it takes its time to engage the rears is the most spin you should get. That definitely looks like it isnt working properly.
 
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Damo S said:
A slight squeak of the fronts as it takes its time to engage the rears is the most spin you should get. That definitely looks like it isnt working properly.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it is the same case when tested in the snow, no engagement from rear at all. I just hope Audi won't hassle me and accept the fact that the Haldex is broken.
 
tchoeA3 said:
Yeah, it is the same case when tested in the snow, no engagement from rear at all. I just hope Audi won't hassle me and accept the fact that the Haldex is broken.
Click to expand...
It would help to undersand if you included car details and history. In the video are you launching the car? Who replaced the pump and why? Why should Audi not repair under warrantee?
 
Morris39 said:
It would help to undersand if you included car details and history. In the video are you launching the car? Who replaced the pump and why? Why should Audi not repair under warrantee?
Click to expand...

As far as car details, there should be no issues. Car was purchased 10 months ago, as a certified pre owned, all services and repairs have been done by audi before I purchased and also after during my ownership, pump was also replaced by Audi. And yes, car was lightly launched in the video. I am just overthinking I guess, I am going to make sure they fix my car.
 
tchoeA3 said:
As far as car details, there should be no issues. Car was purchased 10 months ago, as a certified pre owned, all services and repairs have been done by audi before I purchased and also after during my ownership, pump was also replaced by Audi. And yes, car was lightly launched in the video. I am just overthinking I guess, I am going to make sure they fix my car.
Click to expand...
I think you musunderstand the distinction between "details" and "relevant details".
 
pburv said:
Let us know what they say ie what fault.:icon thumright:
Click to expand...
Hello, so Audi diagnosed the problem today and found another code when scanning today. C111307 AWD Malfunction, they said the haldex clutch was slipping and ordered a new part for a clutch. Part should be coming in 10-12 days, and covered under warranty. I was relieved they confirmed an issue, I just hope now that my haldex will be completely fixed after! Ill keep you updated.
 
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tchoeA3 said:
Hello, so Audi diagnosed the problem today and found another code when scanning today. C111307 AWD Malfunction, they said the haldex clutch was slipping and ordered a new part for a clutch. Part should be coming in 10-12 days, and covered under warranty. I was relieved they confirmed an issue, I just hope now that my haldex will be completely fixed after! Ill keep you updated.
Click to expand...
Good result ... sort of lol
Hope it gets sorted for you mate.:icon thumright:
 
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Hello everyone! Just picked up the car after the repair...AND WHAT A DIFFRENCE! :) Seems like the AWD is back in business! My warranty ends in four days, so very lucky of me aha. They replaced the haldex clutch and haldex control module. Car accelerates like a dream! Very happy.
 
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If anybody was curious to the actual problem, I believe the clutch went out due to the Haldex pump not functioning for an extended period of time, causing no clamping force on the clutch when needed, resulting in a fried, failing clutch. I believe the issue could have been avoided if the clogged pump was diagnosed earlier, but I never experienced traction issues until Winter time with snowy/wet roads
 
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tchoeA3 said:
Hello everyone! Just picked up the car after the repair...AND WHAT A DIFFRENCE! :) Seems like the AWD is back in business! My warranty ends in four days, so very lucky of me aha. They replaced the haldex clutch and haldex control module. Car accelerates like a dream! Very happy.
Click to expand...
That's a great result mate. :thumbs up:
With only four days left on your warranty I would take out an extended one with the dealership. Possibly cheaper than trying to buy warranty after official one has expired??
 
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pburv said:
That's a great result mate. :thumbs up:
With only four days left on your warranty I would take out an extended one with the dealership. Possibly cheaper than trying to buy warranty after official one has expired??
Click to expand...

Yes I am very satisfied. And I was very close to extending it today, but the prices were ridiculous in my opinion. For 3 years or 30,000km whichever first, platinum warranty was near $4,000 CAD, and $3700 for Gold. It is a CPO warranty, not the manufactured 4Y and also I think the higher KM has a factor in the pricing. I went with biting the bullet with not extending it, as the duration of it was too short. Figured that I will spend less money if I were to just do the repairs rather than purchasing the warranty!
 
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Tchoe975 said:
Yes I am very satisfied. And I was very close to extending it today, but the prices were ridiculous in my opinion. For 3 years or 30,000km whichever first, platinum warranty was near $4,000 CAD, and $3700 for Gold. It is a CPO warranty, not the manufactured 4Y and also I think the higher KM has a factor in the pricing. I went with biting the bullet with not extending it, as the duration of it was too short. Figured that I will spend less money if I were to just do the repairs rather than purchasing the warranty!
Click to expand...
yeah that's expensive. Worth taking the gamble then.:icon thumright:
 
Was it the dealer's diagnosis that the screen was clogged and which caused pump failure or is that your belief?
 
Damo S said:
Great result

pburv: nice avatar
Click to expand...
Why thank you:salute:
There was a time a few years back that everyone was going festive on their avatars. I thought I would make an effort. lol
 
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