Facelift Appreciating value?

Masslob · Oct 30, 2019

I've tried in vain to move the rs3 on but I always get a crappy deal. So I've made the decision since I'll have invested about 20k in the car by the time I reach the mid way point unless they give me an considerable px on a cheaper car I will prob keep the rs3 with the intent of paying off eventually.

Now i know rs3s are sought after and keep their value well but from what I read the new rs3 is inferior (noise and performance cos of the ppf) to the one I've got so I'm thinking as it's the last of its kind will it actually hold its value better?

8YARWY · Oct 30, 2019

An RS3 will always be a depreciating asset..... like most cars.

That said, the 2017/18 cars will be easier to sell come the time to move them on.

If you are moving it on after a year you will be facing all the depreciation, no way around it I'm afraid.

Masslob · Oct 30, 2019

Indeed I know all cars will depreciate but the rate of deprecation will surely be slower for the pre PPF version as opposed to the post PPF version?

8YARWY · Oct 30, 2019

Masslob said:
Indeed I know all cars will depreciate but the rate of deprecation will surely be slower for the pre PPF version as opposed to the post PPF version?

Only if dealing with people that understand the differences between the 2 model years and don't want a new car.

Main dealers will not pay more, however a specialist 'may' do, but that is dependant on how much demand there is for the 17/18 plate cars.

I wouldn't get hung up on thinking you've got a slower depreciating car than a newer version.

A person that's never had an RS3 before won't be bothered, only a select few will appreciate the louder car and even then it's still not everyone's cup of tea.

Riko0073 · Oct 30, 2019

T-800 said:
Only if dealing with people that understand the differences between the 2 model years and don't want a new car.

Main dealers will not pay more, however a specialist 'may' do, but that is dependant on how much demand there is for the 17/18 plate cars.

I wouldn't get hung up on thinking you've got a slower depreciating car than a newer version.

A person that's never had an RS3 before won't be bothered, only a select few will appreciate the louder car and even then it's still not everyone's cup of tea.

Agreed.

Also, depending on the value of the car it’s usually easier and more convenient to purchase a brand new car, I was in that position recently and looked at used RS3’s but went for a new OPF model as the deal was excellent for me, plus I didn’t really want the loudness of the slightly older cars.

As mentioned a small minority may be willing to pay slightly more for the older model due to it noise and lack of OPF malarkey but it will still be a depreciating asset whatever you’re in.

sve170 · Oct 30, 2019

Masslob said:
Indeed I know all cars will depreciate but the rate of deprecation will surely be slower for the pre PPF version as opposed to the post PPF version?

And the reason why?

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Ja5on · Oct 30, 2019

Riko0073 said:
Agreed.

Also, depending on the value of the car it’s usually easier and more convenient to purchase a brand new car, I was in that position recently and looked at used RS3’s but went for a new OPF model as the deal was excellent for me, plus I didn’t really want the loudness of the slightly older cars.

As mentioned a small minority may be willing to pay slightly more for the older model due to it noise and lack of OPF malarkey but it will still be a depreciating asset whatever you’re in.

I was in the same boat mate.

At an absolute push the value may hold a bit longer but it will still drop. And if anything the price of the car some folk may value a newer car ( warranty left etc) over a few pops and bangs

scobie140 · Oct 31, 2019

Ja5on said:
I was in the same boat mate.

At an absolute push the value may hold a bit longer but it will still drop. And if anything the price of the car some folk may value a newer car ( warranty left etc) over a few pops and bangs

Especially in these days as its so quick, easy & cheap to get a remap and add in pops and bangs. New back box for a few hindered pound will get you louder aswel.

PeteRS3lee · Oct 31, 2019

New RS3 On the distant horizon could be a factor too
like myself holding out till i actually get a look at 1 before i decide
will hit the residuals on the outgoing RS3 by a little bit i would imagine too
I look on ebay most days to see if any RS3's takes my interest but they have the same cars on there day in day out most cars have been there since i got interested in the RS3 6 months ago

infernox · Oct 31, 2019

I haven't really been looking but my RS3 did appreciate in value in terms of P/X value and Private sale value on Autotrader/Carwow valuations, from the time I bought it in Jan to around August time. Now its starting to go down again but its still higher than it was in Jan. Doing way better than the S3 was. On Carwow the P/X value is £34k and £34,210 on Autotrader now (private sale just under £37k).

Riko0073 · Nov 1, 2019

******** said:
I was out last night playing with my new Draggy and managed a 12.24 @ 115.1 and a 3.7 second 0-60 in my 2019 sportback. Would you mind explaining to me what it is about OPF cars that is "inferior" other than the missing pops and bangs? I wish people would stop spreading this nonsense, as there is no indication of any significant hindrance in performance, stock for stock. Considering every boy racer has a misfire tuned now in I'd say that feature has even lost its appeal in a £50k+ car for many people. I could do without the OPF I'll grant you, but it's hardly a hindrance except in the minds of pre-OPF owners who need their egos stoked

RS3's are maintaining their value very well, but pre-OPF cars fetching more than the later ones is unlikely as most people won't have a clue what the difference is, those that do know that there is no significant performance difference, and those that want the noisier exhaust will happily buy an older model for less. The post-WLTP cars are much fewer in number due to the orders books being closed so many times if anything that will keep value up, especially if the next RS3 is some goofy 4 pot electric hybrid.

3.7 seconds, excellent mate.

Ive just bought a draggy but yet to go out and do some timed run but the car feels quick so that’s all I’m concerned with.

D0C · Nov 1, 2019

******** said:
I was out last night playing with my new Draggy and managed a 12.24 @ 115.1 and a 3.7 second 0-60 in my 2019 sportback. Would you mind explaining to me what it is about OPF cars that is "inferior" other than the missing pops and bangs? I wish people would stop spreading this nonsense, as there is no indication of any significant hindrance in performance, stock for stock. Considering every boy racer has a misfire tuned now in I'd say that feature has even lost its appeal in a £50k+ car for many people. I could do without the OPF I'll grant you, but it's hardly a hindrance except in the minds of pre-OPF owners who need their egos stoked

RS3's are maintaining their value very well, but pre-OPF cars fetching more than the later ones is unlikely as most people won't have a clue what the difference is, those that do know that there is no significant performance difference, and those that want the noisier exhaust will happily buy an older model for less. The post-WLTP cars are much fewer in number due to the orders books being closed so many times if anything that will keep value up, especially if the next RS3 is some goofy 4 pot electric hybrid.

Pre FL cars unquestionably the best sounding of the lot. But FL not too bad at all and quite a different sound.

I’d have to hear an OPF car in person, but there’s no doubt it has spoilt the sound (damn the EU). It still obviously sounds much better than a 4cyl engine, though!

8YARWY · Nov 1, 2019

D0C said:
Pre FL cars unquestionably the best sounding of the lot. But FL not too bad at all and quite a different sound.

I’d have to hear an OPF car in person, but there’s no doubt it has spoilt the sound (damn the EU). It still obviously sounds much better than a 4cyl engine, though!

As good as a 7 cylinder though

DW81 · Nov 2, 2019

Car sounds fine, to me it sounded no different with the ASR fitted. Maybe just a tad louder but not really noticeable

D0C · Nov 2, 2019

T-800 said:
As good as a 7 cylinder though

You have a good memory!

I still maintain the PFL sounds more like how you might expect a 7 cylinder car to sound. To the uneducated and those who have never heard the cars, that’s how I’d describe them.

D0C · Nov 2, 2019

******** said:
Tell me this sounds bad?:

It’s actually a much cleaner sound without the pops and bangs. Though it does need a valve controller to sound right with flaps open fully.

I’d say Audi did very well considering the nonsense regulations imposed by the bureaucrats in Brussels.

As I said previously, it still sounds good. Just not as good!

Terminator x · Nov 2, 2019

******** said:
I was out last night playing with my new Draggy and managed a 12.24 @ 115.1 and a 3.7 second 0-60 in my 2019 sportback. Would you mind explaining to me what it is about OPF cars that is "inferior" other than the missing pops and bangs? I wish people would stop spreading this nonsense, as there is no indication of any significant hindrance in performance, stock for stock. Considering every boy racer has a misfire tuned now in I'd say that feature has even lost its appeal in a £50k+ car for many people. I could do without the OPF I'll grant you, but it's hardly a hindrance except in the minds of pre-OPF owners who need their egos stoked

RS3's are maintaining their value very well, but pre-OPF cars fetching more than the later ones is unlikely as most people won't have a clue what the difference is, those that do know that there is no significant performance difference, and those that want the noisier exhaust will happily buy an older model for less. The post-WLTP cars are much fewer in number due to the orders books being closed so many times if anything that will keep value up, especially if the next RS3 is some goofy 4 pot electric hybrid.

They are slower (see the carwow TTRS vid where it gets left for dead by "lesser" cars) and tune up less well. Lost sound too which I guess is marmite but not for me who previously owned a PFL. Poor sound also led to me not getting on with my RS4 and selling that too. Imho the OPF / GPF is "bad" for those that have petrol running through their veins. Don't start me on electric

TX.

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8YARWY · Nov 2, 2019

terminator x said:
They are slower (see the carwow TTRS vid where it gets left for dead by "lesser" cars) and tune up less well. Lost sound too which I guess is marmite but not for me who previously owned a PFL. Poor sound also led to me not getting on with my RS4 and selling that too. Imho the OPF / GPF is "bad" for those that have petrol running through their veins. Don't start me on electric

TX.

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Go John go

Riko0073 · Nov 2, 2019

terminator x said:
They are slower (see the carwow TTRS vid where it gets left for dead by "lesser" cars) and tune up less well. Lost sound too which I guess is marmite but not for me who previously owned a PFL. Poor sound also led to me not getting on with my RS4 and selling that too. Imho the OPF / GPF is "bad" for those that have petrol running through their veins. Don't start me on electric

TX.

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You say that based on 1 review on the TTRS and which the likes of CarWow are generally well know to be biased.

There seems to be owners recording 3.7/3.8 seconds 0-60 on this very forum and I’ve seen a video on line where the 100-200kmh is the same as the pre OPF cars recorded times.

yes the sound has been changed which will suit some and not others, certainly suits me.

The OPF may not be the ideal situation compared to no OPF but whilst other manufacturers are reducing engine size and some of the sounds I’ve heard don’t live up to say the AMG brand (new 45s sounds poor) the fact Audi are still offering the amazing 5 pot engine which is still blisteringly quick and hey yes maybe a couple of .100th seconds slower...nothing in the real world!

I know I’m happy and as a petrol head glad to be able to step into a brand new RS3 and enjoy it.

8YARWY · Nov 2, 2019

Riko0073 said:
You say that based on 1 review on the TTRS and which the likes of CarWow are generally well know to be biased.

There seems to be owners recording 3.7/3.8 seconds 0-60 on this very forum and I’ve seen a video on line where the 100-200kmh is the same as the pre OPF cars recorded times.

yes the sound has been changed which will suit some and not others, certainly suits me.

The OPF may not be the ideal situation compared to no OPF but whilst other manufacturers are reducing engine size and some of the sounds I’ve heard don’t live up to say the AMG brand (new 45s sounds poor) the fact Audi are still offering the amazing 5 pot engine which is still blisteringly quick and hey yes maybe a couple of .100th seconds slower...nothing in the real world!

I know I’m happy and as a petrol head glad to be able to step into a brand new RS3 and enjoy it.

Excuse TX he gets a little rattled as he approaches a milestone birthday

Just be thankful you haven’t mentioned Tesla........

Riko0073 · Nov 2, 2019

T-800 said:
Excuse TX he gets a little rattled as he approaches a milestone birthday

Just be thankful you haven’t mentioned Tesla........

Haha, I wasn’t offended just seems the OPF cars are getting a bad rep when actually they’re not as bad as some are making out.

we all have our views and I respect that, the sound is one I understand for those that liked the PFL theatrics but that always put me off buying one in the past, the new OPF cars still sound pretty good compared to its rivals that are now in this day and age of regulations.

Maybe the performance is slightly down but you can’t tell me a car recording sub 4 seconds is a travesty and that the new OPF cars are not great :redface new:

I’ve said it before, enjoy your cars guys whether PFL or FL/OPF, I’m absolutely over the moon with mine and glad to have such a car :thumbs up:

wab172uk · Nov 4, 2019

T-800 said:
Only if dealing with people that understand the differences between the 2 model years and don't want a new car.

Main dealers will not pay more, however a specialist 'may' do, but that is dependant on how much demand there is for the 17/18 plate cars.

I wouldn't get hung up on thinking you've got a slower depreciating car than a newer version.

A person that's never had an RS3 before won't be bothered, only a select few will appreciate the louder car and even then it's still not everyone's cup of tea.

Indeed. Most prospective owners will more likely look at newer cars anyway. Less mileage? still within warranty? Condition?

I've found recently that while the price of new cars are going up, the value of second hand cars are going down faster than what they used to. Any dealer is going to offer you bottom book price on anything S or RS, then stick it on their forecourt £10k over and hope for a sucker to come along.

Terminator x · Nov 4, 2019

So you admit they don't sound as good. They definitely don't tune up as well, look it up. You're laying in to me then because of just one issue, speed or lack of it. I'll Google it later for you.

TX.

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D0C · Nov 4, 2019

Lol, yeah pipe down @terminator x

It’s not like you’ve ever drag raced your RS Audi’s or have any experience

banny650 · Nov 4, 2019

Bevo tuning mapped a stage 2 opf car and so far it is up to 516bhp but he did say it is harder to extract the power compared to a daza. When he finishes the map will ask him for the final figures. I've almost got all my bits together and then we see how it responds on a syvecs compared to a daza

Terminator x · Nov 4, 2019

banny650 said:
Bevo tuning mapped a stage 2 opf car and so far it is up to 516bhp but he did say it is harder to extract the power compared to a daza. When he finishes the map will ask him for the final figures. I've almost got all my bits together and then we see how it responds on a syvecs compared to a daza

Same tune vs same tune the pre GPF cars were closing in on 500hp vs the GPF ones at 450 afaik. Happy to stand corrected given I know **** all about it ...

TX.

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Ross_T_Boss · Nov 4, 2019

I haven't heard the OPF models in person to comment but expect them to be a little more muted, it is what it is. I'm glad I picked up a 2018 model but it wouldn't stop me buying a 2019 - from what I can tell on youtube with laptop speakers it still sounds good!

Comparisons are a bit early, I do think the OFP cars are lacking on performance a little (again, it is what it is, no point getting defensive about it) but I didn't get my best times outta mine until I had some miles on the clock and I swear it sounded better after a few thousand miles too. I think we need some tuned cars with valves open and see how they compare, for those where performance is the overriding factor in a purchase decision.

I'd like to see any Dragy data (screenshots) for 0-100 and 100-200 to compare as I have quite a bit for 2017/8 cars but nothing for 2019. But from the very limited figures I've seen the 2019 is about .3s slower so far - as above it may improve if we see some decent comparisons posted now conditions are better and some of these cars are getting spanked.

banny650 · Nov 4, 2019

terminator x said:
Same tune vs same tune the pre GPF cars were closing in on 500hp vs the GPF ones at 450 afaik. Happy to stand corrected given I know **** all about it ...

TX.

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Agreed stage 1 to stage 1 the pre opf cars make more power due to the opf restriction, no getting away from that but seems to even out once you remove the opf

Ross_T_Boss said:
I haven't heard the OPF models in person to comment but expect them to be a little more muted, it is what it is. I'm glad I picked up a 2018 model but it wouldn't stop me buying a 2019 - from what I can tell on youtube with laptop speakers it still sounds good!

Comparisons are a bit early, I do think the OFP cars are lacking on performance a little (again, it is what it is, no point getting defensive about it) but I didn't get my best times outta mine until I had some miles on the clock and I swear it sounded better after a few thousand miles too. I think we need some tuned cars with valves open and see how they compare, for those where performance is the overriding factor in a purchase decision.

I'd like to see any Dragy data (screenshots) for 0-100 and 100-200 to compare as I have quite a bit for 2017/8 cars but nothing for 2019. But from the very limited figures I've seen the 2019 is about .3s slower so far - as above it may improve if we see some decent comparisons posted now conditions are better and some of these cars are getting spanked.

my opf car

Riko0073 · Nov 4, 2019

Ross_T_Boss said:
I haven't heard the OPF models in person to comment but expect them to be a little more muted, it is what it is. I'm glad I picked up a 2018 model but it wouldn't stop me buying a 2019 - from what I can tell on youtube with laptop speakers it still sounds good!

Comparisons are a bit early, I do think the OFP cars are lacking on performance a little (again, it is what it is, no point getting defensive about it) but I didn't get my best times outta mine until I had some miles on the clock and I swear it sounded better after a few thousand miles too. I think we need some tuned cars with valves open and see how they compare, for those where performance is the overriding factor in a purchase decision.

I'd like to see any Dragy data (screenshots) for 0-100 and 100-200 to compare as I have quite a bit for 2017/8 cars but nothing for 2019. But from the very limited figures I've seen the 2019 is about .3s slower so far - as above it may improve if we see some decent comparisons posted now conditions are better and some of these cars are getting spanked.

I have the new OPF model but never had any previous RS3...came from an S4 Avant and S3 saloon prior to that.

I did a very quick launch yesterday, not a great road with a slight bend and just 1% incline and managed 4.2 0-60 so quite a bit off some of the recorded OPF times of 3.7/3.8, however like you say I think as the car runs in (only done 2k miles and still feels very tight) and on a better road and a better launch I reckon I could also achieve those high 3 secs 0-60.

it is what it is, I don’t regret buying the new model, had every opportunity to get the pre OPF but a brand new car deal worked for me, if the older cars are slightly quicker then good on you if you have one but a couple of .100th seconds is nothing, the sound is different but we all have our preferences.

I quite believe the OPF will stunt performance and especially when tuning, not something I’ll be considering for a while so just enjoying the car standard and at some point I’ll see if I can get the dragy out again on better conditions and see what she’ll do, anything below the stated 4.1 seconds is a winner in my book.

enjoy the motors guys :icon thumright:

Ross_T_Boss · Nov 4, 2019

banny650 said:
Agreed stage 1 to stage 1 the pre opf cars make more power due to the opf restriction, no getting away from that but seems to even out once you remove the opf

my opf car
...

One thing I have heard is that the launch is alot softer. If I compare to my stock times... you are losing 1/4sec just in the 0-10 there, it should just take off like a scalded cat. I have no doubt that if they have softened up the launch, that will be a simple fix with a tune and perhaps some of the VCDS tweaks will help too.

Otherwise from 10-40mph there's nothing in it, and above that only because I'm lighter (TTRS) and you're launching up a mountain! I think the short of it is that would be 3.4-3.5s on level ground with a harder launch.

Perhaps also note worthy I dropped to 30psi and sat on LC for a second for boost to build before taking off, and needs a really good grippy piece of tarmac!

Riko0073 said:
I did a very quick launch yesterday, not a great road with a slight bend and just 1% incline and managed 4.2 0-60 so quite a bit off some of the recorded OPF times of 3.7/3.8, however like you say I think as the car runs in (only done 2k miles and still feels very tight) and on a better road and a better launch I reckon I could also achieve those high 3 secs 0-60.

It took me a number of tries to really get the hang of nailing it consistently, and even then a bit of damp, grit, cold temps it can just spin off the line and cost half a second. From Banny's post above you definitely have a car that will run mid 3s 0-60 in the right conditions, broken in and with a bit of practice!

infernox · Nov 4, 2019

******** said:
I was out last night playing with my new Draggy and managed a 12.24 @ 115.1 and a 3.7 second 0-60 in my 2019 sportback. Would you mind explaining to me what it is about OPF cars that is "inferior" other than the missing pops and bangs? I wish people would stop spreading this nonsense, as there is no indication of any significant hindrance in performance, stock for stock. Considering every boy racer has a misfire tuned now in I'd say that feature has even lost its appeal in a £50k+ car for many people. I could do without the OPF I'll grant you, but it's hardly a hindrance except in the minds of pre-OPF owners who need their egos stoked

RS3's are maintaining their value very well, but pre-OPF cars fetching more than the later ones is unlikely as most people won't have a clue what the difference is, those that do know that there is no significant performance difference, and those that want the noisier exhaust will happily buy an older model for less. The post-WLTP cars are much fewer in number due to the orders books being closed so many times if anything that will keep value up, especially if the next RS3 is some goofy 4 pot electric hybrid.

Personally if I was buying one now, I'd go for the pre-OPF. I'm doing it now too when looking at my next car, it's mostly because of the exhaust sound. The performance difference doesn't really matter to me as it's quite small as you said. The other thing is how they're configured, you had more options available pre-OPF so you could mix and match things rather than have to get a pack. Most petrol heads will know about OPFs but not sure what percentage of them go for RS3's.

******** said:
Tell me this sounds bad?:

It’s actually a much cleaner sound without the pops and bangs. Though it does need a valve controller to sound right with flaps open fully.

I’d say Audi did very well considering the nonsense regulations imposed by the bureaucrats in Brussels.

It does sound good but not as good like what DOC said, for me I really notice it in the start-up sound too. That's what usually surprises people in car parks or on the street as some non-petrol heads don't think it would sound like that. I can understand not liking the pops and bangs but you don't really hear it driving normally stock unless you're looking for it/want to do it or revving at idle. It'd be interesting to hear one/drive one for comparison and see if the low revs driving sound bounces off walls like my pre-OPF does.

Riko0073 · Nov 4, 2019

Ross_T_Boss said:
One thing I have heard is that the launch is alot softer. If I compare to my stock times... you are losing 1/4sec just in the 0-10 there, it should just take off like a scalded cat. I have no doubt that if they have softened up the launch, that will be a simple fix with a tune and perhaps some of the VCDS tweaks will help too.

Otherwise from 10-40mph there's nothing in it, and above that only because I'm lighter (TTRS) and you're launching up a mountain! I think the short of it is that would be 3.4-3.5s on level ground with a harder launch.

Perhaps also note worthy I dropped to 30psi and sat on LC for a second for boost to build before taking off, and needs a really good grippy piece of tarmac!

It took me a number of tries to really get the hang of nailing it consistently, and even then a bit of damp, grit, cold temps it can just spin off the line and cost half a second. From Banny's post above you definitely have a car that will run mid 3s 0-60 in the right conditions, broken in and with a bit of practice!

Would be interesting to see the performance 0-60 without launch between pre and OPF cars to see if it’s the initial launch that’s losing it a few 10ths.

Who in the real world actually uses LC at the lights etc, I’d feel a bit of a tool sat there with the engine revving waiting for green :sadlike:

...on a drag strip or a bit of a quiet road road just for fun fair enough.

I have noticed that compared to my previous S4 the LC in the RS3 does hesitate before shooting off, although I appreciate the set up is different in the S4, gearbox etc. If the pre OPF cars launch like a scalded cat as you say then I can see where the OPF cars would lose slightly on the figures.

CHEZ · Nov 4, 2019

Ooo yeah!
I love a good he say's, she say's, debate!
2 mins my popcorn will be done.

Terminator x · Nov 4, 2019

Lot of 2019 cars for sale, same with TTRS ...

TX.

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D0C · Nov 4, 2019

It’s not just Audi that are suffering with the OPFs. Went out in a new BMW X3M that has the engine that will be in the new M3/4. Didn’t sound great...could tell it was being strangled by the filters.

Matt2010 · Nov 5, 2019

For me, a car is very much about the noise as it adds so much to the experience.

zaka7 · Nov 5, 2019

Bring back the brexit debates!

This is like when the FL first came out and most of the PFL guys slated the noise, now it is actually not that bad, can we not all just have an opinion but respect the fact that the RS3 is an epic car regardless! some will prefer a certain MY some will not give a monkeys, an RS3 is a beast either way.

I will retract the above if they ever do retract from that immense 5 pot however!

Riko0073 · Nov 5, 2019

******** said:
You certainly will get it well under 4 seconds with a little practice mate. Can’t and shouldn’t really give a result without an ideal straight flat road, some heat in the tyres and not too heat soaked engine, and learning to build and launch on the boost. This is even more of an issue when running a full 1/4 mile. Enjoy it and stay safe though!

Cheers buddy.

Yeah my launch attempt was a very rushed one and not ideal circumstances so 4.2 not bad at all.

Bit of practice in better conditions and yeah should get below 4!

Riko0073 · Nov 6, 2019

Another CarWow test.

RS3 did better than their last review against a tuned Golf R but launch still seemed slow.

12.7 secs 1/4 mile, what have other OPF owners recorded as I’m sure that’s off the pace of pre OPF cars but again not always trusting the bias of CarWow and their ability to do a decent launch?

banny650 · Nov 6, 2019

If the launch has been softened up as suspected, the whatever time lost at the beginning is doubled at the end.

Cant wait to get my mods on and mapped on syvecs, then put it to the test again

Facelift Appreciating value?

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Now in an X3 M40i And a Yaris GR-Four

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moderately amusing

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