[QUOTE="oli356, post: 3259649, member: 126563"With the MTM (or similar) is it just not required due to some difference, or because some of the stage 1 maps can get better numbers... or because MTM don't (or can't) do gearbox tunes so they don't advertise it needing to be done. (they might even do gearboxes, I don't know).[/QUOTE]
@oli356 The MTM box does not produce the high torque values that the custom and high shelf versions of Revo/APR and alike offer. The likes of MRC are very good in that they will NOT put a high torque figure onto a car without increasing the clutch plate pressure ( this is what the TCU tune does ). They will however as you say charge for this pleasure. The other big tuners out there as mentioned above are generally the same.
Dont quote me on the following but I believe the DSG 6 speed auto boxes are apparently good for 500Nm of torque without TCU DSG tune, once done they are good for around 600Nm.
7 Speed DSG on newer FL S3/Golf R cars was a bit of an unknown but now plenty of cars appearing on various forums in different state of tunes. So far they appear to offer similar threshold numbers to PFL cars. From digging around I think the box is DQ381 wet clutch- upgrade of the old DQ380- ?
PFL RS3 has DQ500 7 speed . This box appears to be able to handle 700NM+. FL cars similar gearbox I believe.
Manual S3 / Golf R cars, produce higher BHP figures as they dont have the trasmission loss but unless they have upgraded clutch cant handle large amounts of torque. Sachs upgrade kits available for the manual boys. !!
However dont forget there are other factors at play with regards to reliability and the stress put on the components in a car. Very regular servicing, warming / cooling a car down, and how and where its driven are all facets to be aware of. Having a stage 1 car (350-385 BHP, 440-485Nm ) and driving it normally with some mechanical sympathy and sinply enjoying it, is unlikely to have any major issues.
Driving any car really hard, launches, drag strip runs or sinply driving it like its been stolen from cold all of the time is not good for any car whether stock or tuned. Mechanical sympathy has to come into play. This is why some cars with 50k+ mikes still feel like new and others sinply dont.
The thing to keep hold of here is that Torque is the general killer not BHP. But the MTM keeps this well within the cars components parameters in stock form. The JB4 for example takes this one step further for a tuning box in that it gives you the ability to keep torque lower in the first few gears, all for mechanical sympathy.
@ASRman ... With your car reflecting a strong torque value you are still within margins of the gearbox in standard non TCU form. If your car is performing well, is not throwing any errors ( as I would expect with the MTM ) just enjoy it my friend, just enjoy it!!!!
If you read the thread comparing boxes you will indeed note on the road we found very little to seperate the DTUK and MTM boxes under normal fast road conditions. Both offered an increase in performance on the PFL cars. Both were very effective and both go about it in slightly different ways. Of which some will like MTM over DTUK. My preference at the time was the MTM. The new kid on the block JB4 seems to offer a good mix of both boxes although I have not owned, driven or been in one so cant comment any further. Theee is however no doubt some will prefer the JB4 over either and the ability to tweak maps on the fly etc is a great offering. Its horses for courses. None of these are a substitute for a custom map, but do offer an increase in performance for Stage 1 with the flexibility to remove the devices, which then ofcourse have a 2nd hand / used value. Something which many people often forget about.
With regards to performance comparisons- Where the additional torque that some tunes might offer, would probably come into play would be on a drag strip launch and as you go over 100mph, where the higher torque would help push the car down the road.
As you have collated threads, here is another one from
@batch when he had his MTM dyno’d at QST. Car made 370bhp/465Nm. ( with intake / Turbo elbow upgrades)
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/new-s3-ordered.245049/page-6
As I stated in a previous post, dont get too caught up in dyno numbers. My MTM car was a total pleasure to own and drive. Never missed a beat, never felt wanting and provided good performance, even when up against well known tuned cars from the like of Revo, MRC under normal road boundaries. Also note that even though my dyno numbers were slightly down compared to
@batch and his car later had a down pip fitted. Both cars pulled incredibly well against each other and were impossible to seperate ( other than the noise that the Sports downpipe offered! ).
Just enjoy your car !
