Interesting job today - Keep an eye on your vehicles!

DJAlix

DJAlix

VAG CAR CODING
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VAG Can Professional
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Evening all...

This is not a service I normally offer but thought I would help out as this was a friend of a fellow forum member and thought to post here as a warning to all with KESSY / Keyless Entry:

Stolen and Recovered 2010 Audi S5 Sportback!

The owner of this vehicle went to sleep last night with the car on his drive but woke up to find it gone this morning but… there was a tracker fitted and the car was found within a few hours.

This S5 was stolen without the keys being taken / used, and with ZERO damage to any locks or windows. The SOCO team did more damage with their fingerprint dust! The car was found parked up in a quite road, prolly being monitored to see if it had a tracker. The "SCUM" did try looking for the tracker as all the vehicles' cubby hole covers were loose, fuse box included.

Here is whats most interesting.... the scum that took this S5 managed to code two totally new keys (not left behind but seen in the IMMO configurations) and remove the owners originals from the vehicles' IMMO. All the owner could do was open the drivers door with his blade key once he arrived at the cars location. Needless to say all key configurations were removed and then the originals recoded.

I know its been talked about before on the forum but watch out guys, there are some professionals on the loose who know what they are doing and for anyone wondering this happened in Sidcup, Kent.

FullSizeRender 4 Squashed
 
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Jeez really does make you think...obviously glad no one was hurt in the theft (I.e. Owners not the thief)

How do they manage to code a keyless car from outside? Is it a signal block or something else with keyless?
 
Kuku said:
Jeez really does make you think...obviously glad no one was hurt in the theft (I.e. Owners not the thief)

How do they manage to code a keyless car from outside? Is it a signal block or something else with keyless?
Click to expand...
Yer, owners were fine :)

I have an idea on how this was done but it would not be a good idea to discuss on an open forum as you never know who's watching.

Time to get beep on lock and unlock coded on our cars in order to make sure everything is secure... and start relocating them OBD ports guys... maybe even cut a wire and install a switch somewhere in the car.
 
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Kuku said:
How do they manage to code a keyless car from outside? Is it a signal block or something else with keyless?
Click to expand...

I don't know how this exact technique works. I can see two possible ways, but both rely on specialist tools.

I don't know how prevalent access to these tools is for the newest models, but a few years ago, you could ring up a "security specialist" and they could do it on an 8P. My brother lost all the keys to his A3. He found a guy on facebook who claimed to be such a specialist. Brother had to pop out to work, but gave the security bloke his address and agreed to meet after work. When he got home from work, the guy was standing around having a ciggy and dangling 2 new sets of keys - total cost £250. "Oh. I couldn't be bothered to wait for you to arrive, so I just started". He'd somehow broken into the car causing no visible damage, bypassed the alarm, coded two new keys, decoded the door locks and cut 2 new blade keys in under an hour.
 
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Whilst that is amazing it can be done if you lose your keys. It's also very worrying. Cars will need to come with fingerprint scanners next


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
DJAlix said:
Yer, owners were fine :)

I have an idea on how this was done but it would not be a good idea to discuss on an open forum as you never know who's watching.

Time to get beep on lock and unlock coded on our cars in order to make sure everything is secure... and start relocating them OBD ports guys... maybe even cut a wire and install a switch somewhere in the car.
Click to expand...

Completely understand that
 
audi upgrades
xpoweruk said:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/12/cars-risk-keyless-entry-system-hacked-volkswagen
Click to expand...
Reading that you'd like to think that Audi are now using the same technology on the A3 as found in the MK7 golf. However, I still maintain that if keyless cars are at such risk why don't insurance companies make you declare it on your annual insurance proposal. They never miss an opportunity to make a few extra quid on premiums when the opportunity arises.

xpoweruk said:
http://autowatch.co.uk/products/autowatch-immobiliser-systems/68-ghost-product
Click to expand...

Until they had the not so bright idea of linking your car to your Iphone this appeared a really good system. Using the buttons around your car to enter a pin is a really simple but effective idea.
 
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The iPhone bit is an option though I believe
 
Glad I removed the option of keyless entry when specc'ing my car!

To be honest this isn't new, been happening for years hasn't it?
 
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People are still confusing what "keyless" means. Any car with a fob (that you have to press the buttons on, or otherwise) is a "keyless" system and is susceptible to the attacks detailed in the linked news articles, the only thing "advanced key" takes away is the need for a correctly cut blade in order to remove the steering lock.
 
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The advanced key can be cloned remotely even when in the house though.That is why you see bids of thieves holding a box at a house door then driving the car away
 
xpoweruk said:
The advanced key can be cloned remotely even when in the house though.That is why you see bids of thieves holding a box at a house door then driving the car away
Click to expand...

Got any proof of this other than hearsay and conjecture? Given the car doesn't read the key until it's within a foot or so, I'm not sure how you expect a magic box to read my key through the walls of the house.
 
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Chris43 said:
However, I still maintain that if keyless cars are at such risk why don't insurance companies make you declare it on your annual insurance proposal. They never miss an opportunity to make a few extra quid on premiums when the opportunity arises.
Click to expand...

A lot of insurance companies nowadays class optional extras as modifications so if 'keyless' was an extra then they would want to know :stupid:
 
Tom.H said:
A lot of insurance companies nowadays class optional extras as modifications so if 'keyless' was an extra then they would want to know :stupid:
Click to expand...

Agree but when I've spoken to a couple of the companies they've turned around and said if it's factory fitted we don't need to know about them...
 
They might not affect your policy but more and more want to know about them, they still class them as mods even if they're factory fitted.
 
Do UK Insurance companies not ask for your VIN # on your application, as this will give them all the info on what options are factory installed.
 
paradigital said:
Got any proof of this other than hearsay and conjecture? Given the car doesn't read the key until it's within a foot or so, I'm not sure how you expect a magic box to read my key through the walls of the house.
Click to expand...

Not hearsay mate the car key scanning duplicators have been available for years now from as little as $90 & are very simple to use

The frequency receives & copys the signal from the key code from a distance of 500 meters depending on the model of tool & saves upto 30 remote control signals.

I won't name the tools for obviously reasons but these are very easy to buy off the net.

Crock looks or aftermarket alarm should be a deterrent.
 
paradigital said:
Got any proof of this other than hearsay and conjecture? Given the car doesn't read the key until it's within a foot or so, I'm not sure how you expect a magic box to read my key through the walls of the house.
Click to expand...

Demonstrations of this have been made at security and engineering conferences. I don't know about cloning a key inside a house, but people have been able to open and start cars from a key 50 or 100 yards away, when the key is in a locked briefcase.

The basic concept is to intercept and boost the communications signals between the car and key, allowing the comms to work over a long distance.

Whether this type of technology is available on the street, I've no idea.
 
audi upgrades
Russian military technology

Papers for you lol

More like Chinese software
 
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MrFlibble said:
Demonstrations of this have been made at security and engineering conferences. I don't know about cloning a key inside a house, but people have been able to open and start cars from a key 50 or 100 yards away, when the key is in a locked briefcase.

The basic concept is to intercept and boost the communications signals between the car and key, allowing the comms to work over a long distance.

Whether this type of technology is available on the street, I've no idea.
Click to expand...

Some of the devices I have seen in certain videos are very big.

Scary thing is they come in smaller sizes no bigger than a mobile phone.
 
paradigital said:
Got any proof of this other than hearsay and conjecture? Given the car doesn't read the key until it's within a foot or so, I'm not sure how you expect a magic box to read my key through the walls of the house.
Click to expand...

 
Going back the original post, any chance the car key was cloned the last time the owner had the car in for a service. Whats stopping a technician with a drug habit to fund accepting a few quid from an organised gang to make a key copy on legitimate equipment at the local Audi dealer. They would also have access to the owners home address, just leave it a few months before lifting the car with new key to minimise the risk of associating the theft to the dealer visit.

I added advanced key on my A3 order, its a great feature. The convenience far out ways the risk.
 
lol x2

(how hard is it to press a button to unlock the car, and put a key in the ignition to start it?)

First world problems aye!
 
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Chris43 said:
Going back the original post, any chance the car key was cloned the last time the owner had the car in for a service. Whats stopping a technician with a drug habit to fund accepting a few quid from an organised gang to make a key copy on legitimate equipment at the local Audi dealer. They would also have access to the owners home address, just leave it a few months before lifting the car with new key to minimise the risk of associating the theft to the dealer visit.

I added advanced key on my A3 order, its a great feature. The convenience far out ways the risk.
Click to expand...
Wasn't the case in this scenario as the owners key was no longer working when he turned up to the car - which means it was done (knocking his keys off the system) while it was stolen and not weeks before.
 
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lgooch said:
Whilst that is amazing it can be done if you lose your keys. It's also very worrying. Cars will need to come with fingerprint scanners next


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Only works with keyless entry cars afaik.

TX.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk
 
RS3ER said:
Not hearsay mate the car key scanning duplicators have been available for years now from as little as $90 & are very simple to use

The frequency receives & copys the signal from the key code from a distance of 500 meters depending on the model of tool & saves upto 30 remote control signals.

I won't name the tools for obviously reasons but these are very easy to buy off the net.

Crock looks or aftermarket alarm should be a deterrent.
Click to expand...
Not if the key is just sat idle in the house though? Would need a button press on the key in the house surely?

TX.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk
 
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Liquidfusion-S3 said:
lol x2

(how hard is it to press a button to unlock the car, and put a key in the ignition to start it?)

First world problems aye!
Click to expand...

For me it is worth it. When I finish gym I have to carry gym bag, big water bottle, iPad, phone and wallet and keys. I usually end up dropping something. Keyless Entry is a god send! (And no, not everything fits into my gym bag lol)

Also push to start is a very nice feature to have!
 
Last edited:
Timi8888 said:
For me it is worth it. When I finish gym I have to carry gym bag, big water bottle, iPad, phone and wallet and keys. I usually end up dropping something. Keyless Entry is a god send! (And no, it everything fits into my gym bag lol)

Also push to start is a very nice feature to have!
Click to expand...
This.

Feels extremely strange now also not to have it if you ever drive another car.
 
Does anyone know if the old school steering wheel stoploks fits on an S3? The bar style one.
 
terminator x said:
Not if the key is just sat idle in the house though? Would need a button press on the key in the house surely?

TX.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

No it don't work that way I won't post the multiple frequencys the tool uses.

it will receive & copy remote control signals if the key is within range of 500 meters.

Works on (OCF) one click functions not hard to use don't have to be a pro to use it.

Anyone with keyless entry systems simply block the signal to the key.

Leave key wrapped in tin foil when not in use there are pouches cheaply available on EBay which also block the signal.
 
Chris43 said:
Going back the original post, any chance the car key was cloned the last time the owner had the car in for a service. Whats stopping a technician with a drug habit to fund accepting a few quid from an organised gang to make a key copy on legitimate equipment at the local Audi dealer. They would also have access to the owners home address, just leave it a few months before lifting the car with new key to minimise the risk of associating the theft to the dealer visit.

I added advanced key on my A3 order, its a great feature. The convenience far out ways the risk.
Click to expand...
Maybe, who knows. When I first started working on the car, and before I took a deep dive in to the code, I just wanted to get the vehicle up and running so coded the owners keys just to make sure everything worked. I then got stuck in and found that a total of 4 keys were configured! x2 were the SCUM and then x2 being the owners. Needless to say I removed all but the owners keys, well in fact I removed all the keys and started over again to be honest as I wanted to be sure everything was as secure as it could be. Its a little scary that this vehicle would allow more than 3 keys to be coded to it.
 
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Depending on how long you are planning to keep your car my main suggestion is.

(https://www.pandoracaralarms.co.uk/)

Speak to Anthony anyone interested

This is the most advanced system on the market.

No software is bypassing this.

It doesn't use the factory immobiliser
 
Keyless entry cars only though yes? Can't see how it would work on the old analogue keys eg they plip to open door but must be inserted in lock to start car ...

TX.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk
 
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terminator x said:
Keyless entry cars only though yes? Can't see how it would work on the old analogue keys eg they plip to open door but must be inserted in lock to start car ...

TX.

Sent from my STV100-4 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Yes correct key in the ignition is simply harder to bypass & these tools only effect keyless entry systems.

We're dealing with a different threat now to keyless entry systems.

OBD port cloning was the common method until manufacturers changed technology.

Now car key scanning is obviously another method in my opinion also quicker to steal
 
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