NEW AET/Badger5 K04-380 (402bhp dyno'd)

[snowy]

costs - tooling - etc but I would love for a UK company to be able to make these at a level they're affordable.
I dont see anyone wanting or able to stump up the upfront costs.. Crowd funding perhaps..
Who knows

someone needs to get busy with a 3D metal printer

 

[Madmax199]

Looking good Bill! Long time follower, first time poster. To introduce myself, my name is Max and most call me madmax. I have a track TT Quattro that I have been building for a number of years now and use a k04 hybrid as my weapon of choice.

I am glad to see that the K04 hybrid development has not reached a dead end, and is still moving forward. For those not familiar, I am on what can be considered a middle of the road hybrid in today's standard in terms of turbine and compressor wheel specs.

What got me to post is that I am very interested in the better spool characteristics of this combo Bill. It is looking very promissing, any sign of the mild surging at TQ onset (usual to most hybrids until then) if you unleash the boost on it?

I am also happy to see that you're still using the reworked JBS-clone manifolds from China (mine is still going strong). The pro4 from Craplentless seem to be better than the previous ones, but still a liability as they are starting to fail too. How many pro4 failures have you guys been seeing on that side of the ponds?

 

[Madmax199]

3.5" at the top but you will struggle to get it past the prop doughnut else I would have tried...

Mines 3.5" at the top like the Lupo's but then reduces down to 3" to get past the doughnut

The gap between the doughnut and the DP is about the same both sides give or take... a 3.5" section would leave no room for movement even on vibratechnic mounts...

The steering rack dictates clearance on the other side else you may have been able to do a little tactical panel beating to add a little clearance

<tuffty/>

Nice expansion-chambered downpipe! From experience it will be tight but it can be squeezed in. As you mentioned, with that kind of clearance the drivetrain has to be movement free.

I built a similar system for my TT, but I'm on solid metal mounts, therefore zero movement. No contact, not rattle, nothing at 4" expansion chamber reducing to 3.5" downpipe -- the rest of the system is also 3.5" aluminium after the downpipe (ending in a modular turdown halfway under the car.

 

[badger5]

Looking good Bill! Long time follower, first time poster. To introduce myself, my name is Max and most call me madmax. I have a track TT Quattro that I have been building for a number of years now and use a k04 hybrid as my weapon of choice.

I am glad to see that the K04 hybrid development has not reached a dead end, and is still moving forward. For those not familiar, I am on what can be considered a middle of the road hybrid in today's standard in terms of turbine and compressor wheel specs.

What got me to post is that I am very interested in the better spool characteristics of this combo Bill. It is looking very promissing, any sign of the mild surging at TQ onset (usual to most hybrids until then) if you unleash the boost on it?

I am also happy to see that you're still using the reworked JBS-clone manifolds from China (mine is still going strong). The pro4 from Craplentless seem to be better than the previous ones, but still a liability as they are starting to fail too. How many pro4 failures have you guys been seeing on that side of the ponds?

Hi Max
Welcome.
The turbo did'nt surge no, which is nice.. Previous one could as it was a 2283 comp wheel they are quite a surgey comp wheel, even in their normal TFSi home. My TFSi road car surges like a mofo.. This 7+7 larger comp wheel did'nt at all. Spool and torque onset imrovement seems significant over its previous hybrid. It drives very responsively.. I had'nt thought the old one was slow, but this one is significantly more eager.
chinafold works fine as modified..

 

[Madmax199]

Hi Max
Welcome.
The turbo did'nt surge no, which is nice.. Previous one could as it was a 2283 comp wheel they are quite a surgey comp wheel, even in their normal TFSi home. My TFSi road car surges like a mofo.. This 7+7 larger comp wheel did'nt at all. Spool and torque onset imrovement seems significant over its previous hybrid. It drives very responsively.. I had'nt thought the old one was slow, but this one is significantly more eager.
chinafold works fine as modified..

Nice, it's definitely nice to not have to deal with the mild onset surge (although I found/tested it not to be detrimental to performance on my setup). I have capped the boost to 27 psi to avoid it. Giving it all 30+ psi the hybrid can push makes more power but does not sound right. The difference in power is there (from 365 WHP at 27 psi to 405 WHP at 30 psi) but I setlle for the 365 WHP because things are not as stressed, more safe, and that's plenty of power for my 1,100 kg TT.

More responsive is also my kind of thing. So this is a good alternative to the TFSI turbo conversion that I was starting to look as the next step in my evolution process. How are peak EGT with the new hybrid when compared to the old one at the same psi?


PS: Here is a youtube video of my car on the dyno demonstrating the onset surge for the audience. As you can see at the end the untouched power curve is not affected, but it's still a nuisance with the 2283/2380 range compressors wheels.

 

[S3Alex]

Hi Max
Welcome.
The turbo did'nt surge no, which is nice.. .......... My TFSi road car surges like a mofo.. This 7+7 larger comp wheel did'nt at all. Spool and torque onset imrovement seems significant over its previous hybrid. It drives very responsively.. ......

We had serious surge problems with the GT3071 and later GTX3076 on my TFSi,but thankfully cured that with the last set of upgrades and mods.
What is the turbo on your TFSi?

 

[badger5]

Nice, it's definitely nice to not have to deal with the mild onset surge (although I found/tested it not to be detrimental to performance on my setup). I have capped the boost to 27 psi to avoid it. Giving it all 30+ psi the hybrid can push makes more power but does not sound right. The difference in power is there (from 365 WHP at 27 psi to 405 WHP at 30 psi) but I setlle for the 365 WHP because things are not as stressed, more safe, and that's plenty of power for my 1,100 kg TT.

More responsive is also my kind of thing. So this is a good alternative to the TFSI turbo conversion that I was starting to look as the next step in my evolution process. How are peak EGT with the new hybrid when compared to the old one at the same psi?


PS: Here is a youtube video of my car on the dyno demonstrating the onset surge for the audience. As you can see at the end the untouched power curve is not affected, but it's still a nuisance with the 2283/2380 range compressors wheels.

egt's attached of the new hybrid.
http://badger-5.com/bin/k04-hybrid/aet-k04-380/aet-k04-380-egt-402bhp.JPG

 

[badger5]

So I have some prices from AET through for the K04-380 unit.
Its based on exchange unit.
K04-380 Turbo is £895
Gen2 high flow manifold is £330
V2.2 Silicon only bit of my TIP (with hose clips) is £107.50

Prices exclude vat and Delivery

 

[rallye_turbo]

Hello....!

 

[Gops]

Hello....!

Hi!

 

[superkarl]

Hello....!

Hi!

 

[rallye_turbo]

Hello <in relation to Bill's price for turbo>
Sorry for the confusion. And it is nice to know what a friendly bunch of people we are offering greetings!

 

[badger5]

belated "hello"

 

[ProjecTTrack]

Half of what you say is true.. I wont, dont supply the manifolds seperately. I do use them on our own builds.. I would never buy a relentless product for obvious reasons..

However, this new hybrid, needs a high flow reliable manifold of suitable bore, and the mix of the parts to allow the turbo to achieve these levels include a 47mm true outlet collector, port matched turbo to suit, and 80mm TIP to go onto the turbos billet inlet. Its a package for folks who want the same spec as the lupo is running. the manifold is not available separately from me. Its too much of a ball ache to put it bluntly. The casting is from China yes, Its called the Chinafold after all. We have the manifold cnc machined locally and a lot of manual effort porting them to get them how I want them. Its labour intensive, as well as carbide cutter intensive which is costly, so qtys are limited. This is why I stopped selling them. Too much hassle and time we just don't have unfortunately. I wish we could get the foundry to cast them into the right shape, but this has not been possible, hence the post processing required. I wish it was'nt so, and customers did'nt have to use the v4... We know how thats working out.

Hi Bill,
I work with a pattern company who specialise in this sort of thing, when I went in today they were working on a pattern for a 60's ford block, working out shrinkages for casting and then the 2nd stage shrinkages etc. They'd be able to easily boss something like this... Not sure if that would be worth anything to you, to stop with the porting by hand?

 

[badger5]

Hi Bill,
I work with a pattern company who specialise in this sort of thing, when I went in today they were working on a pattern for a 60's ford block, working out shrinkages for casting and then the 2nd stage shrinkages etc. They'd be able to easily boss something like this... Not sure if that would be worth anything to you, to stop with the porting by hand?

I'm all ears for suitable options..
Tel me more dude

 

[ProjecTTrack]

I'm all ears for suitable options..
Tel me more dude

I've dropped you a PM bud

 

[rallye_turbo]

Hi Bill.
At this level, do you recommend some uprated exhaust valves? If so, what other valve train mods should be considered?
Regards, Paul

 

[badger5]

lupo is std but if you are asking me are better valves a good idea? yep for sure

 

[badger5]

AET just updated their Facebook for this unit..

 

[TT Tom TT]

Still super excited for mine to arrive in all its shiny beasty glory!

 

[badger5]

We have other Dyno Tests on the lupo now, Performed at JKM on their Dyno Dynamics dyno and also at Stealth Racing on their MAHA/sport_devices Dyno No change to lupo from the initial tests I have done on my own dyno. As you will notice good old Dyno Lottery applies to the figures, but relative measurements from their dynos to my own dyno show the performance from this Hybrid for what it is.. Exceptional. Comments from both Jim @ JKM and Vince @ Stealth is this is by far the most powerful K04 hybrid they have ever seen, by quite some margin. smile emoticon Tests done were actuator pressure run and on boost on. You will see quite some difference on the JKM dyno Dynamics runs, by changing just the over wishbone straps to looser, which allows some climb up the front roller. (this is their normal dyno day strapping method for the record. Uber strapped he reserves for mapping) - Have a read through JKMs Dyno Tech Description as it explains the strapping difference results compared with other Dyno dynamics dynos. http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/dynotesting.htm

thanks to Jim @ JKM and Vince @ Stealth Racing for their hospitality and impartiality for these tests. Both were impressed by this k04 hybrid and it has surpassed all others they have seen, by quite some margin. Well done AET.. You've made a superb turbo I think.

Measured Results here>>

JKM Dynoday strapped - high boost (blue plot, red plot uberstrapped 388bhp, dyno day strapped 409bhp)

JKM Uberstrapped Actuator boost (14psi)

Stealth Racing - MAHA/Sport_Devices Dyno, high boost

Stealth Racing Actuator Boost

Badger5 high and actuator, ignore the yellow plot as thats higher boost than the JKM/Stealth so not comparitive. The map/hardware on the Lupo is identical to what was run @ JKM/Stealth on the red and blue runs, all I've adjusted out is the overshoot on spool "blip" it had originally.

 

[Prawn]

Well, that's pretty impressive! Not that we doubted the figures from your own dyno, but it's nice to have the 3rd party data as well!

Great stuff Bill. Hope the shafts are holding out!

 

[badger5]

Well, that's pretty impressive! Not that we doubted the figures from your own dyno, but it's nice to have the 3rd party data as well!

Great stuff Bill. Hope the shafts are holding out!

Cheers Nick

The results for me were never in doubt. All those who know me and how I work know I only deal in facts and measurements..

To silence the gobshytes who dont believe and cant believe the results, I did these tests elsewhere.
It also confirms dyno lottery is as usual at play of course - LOL

Results are solid, real, and repeatable and as yet unrivaled. AET have done a good job making this turbo to the spec I asked of them.

AET and my sales are going very well thank you very much

 

[superkarl]

I was looking at my power/torque plots the other night in comparison to this, and whilst it's 20hp shy the area under the curve and plot look very very similar. Impressive

 

[Gops]

Great results bill. It's really impressing and hopefully all the crap talkers will silence now. Hats off to AET for the great turbo!

 

[S3Alex]

Well done.

Results from more than one source always work to silence the haters.

And...I still think that sticking that lot in a Lupo was an act of genius.

 

[badger5]

for those who like atw figures, a quick check of the respective dynos show the following:
Dyno Dynamics (JKM) - 348bhp @ wheels
Maha/sport Devices (Stealth) - 362bhp @ wheels
SunRam/Dastek (Badger5) - 354bhp @ wheels

in a little over 1000kg lupo. (which now has NS2R tyres)

 

[scotty_24]

I've got those NS2R tyres and they were unreal (for my skill level) at the 'Ring

 

[badger5]

I've got those NS2R tyres and they were unreal (for my skill level) at the 'Ring

I will just fear for the lupos CV's and gbox all the more - lol

 

[Jenno007]

I will just fear for the lupos CV's and gbox all the more - lol

02m or 02j

 

[badger5]

02A

 

[bigal 1]

Cheers Nick

The results for me were never in doubt. All those who know me and how I work know I only deal in facts and measurements..

To silence the gobshytes who dont believe and cant believe the results, I did these tests elsewhere.
It also confirms dyno lottery is as usual at play of course - LOL

Results are solid, real, and repeatable and as yet unrivaled. AET have done a good job making this turbo to the spec I asked of them.

AET and my sales are going very well thank you very much

Bill, to anyone on this forum, who knows you, they will know that you ARE the one stop shop. Integrity, honesty, and capability all wrapped up in one . And of course you make statements after the event. NOT before. I like that approach.

 

[TT Tom TT]

My K04-380 has arrived today! It's beautiful !

 

[bigal 1]

Bill, to anyone on this forum, who knows you, they will know that you ARE the one stop shop. Integrity, honesty, and capability all wrapped up in one . And of course you make statements after the event. NOT before. I like that approach.

A little flowery perhaps, but you get my drift. I'm still coming round on Saturday for the money.

 

[Miguel_S#]

Madmax199 what can this setup do with e85!!!!!

 

[badger5]

Badger5 AET/K04-380 Hybrid Turbo Package. Comprises Gen2 Chinafold, AET K04-380 turbo (exchange), Badger5 V2.2 TIP (silicon only as billet is part of turbo) - Note: Manifold is NOT available separately. £1337.50 +vat Package. Non turbo exchange price is +£200+vat

Couple of these going onto builds so quick opportunity for a "kodak" moment.

 

[badger5]

Now uploaded to our webshop to purchase.

http://badger5.biz/epages/3927bc2c-...739-96a5-d6cca869fcd6/Products/K04-380PACKAGE

 

[Alex C]

Badger5 V2.2 TIP (silicon only as billet is part of turbo)

to clarify, the billet piece is physically built into the turbo? ie. no need for silicon sealant to affect a seal?

 

[badger5]

to clarify, the billet piece is physically built into the turbo? ie. no need for silicon sealant to affect a seal?

The billet is indeed part of the turbo.
The webshop has been updated and shows more pictures of the turbo,manifold etc

 

[IPG]

would this be a good match in running this with a large port head?