Dippy's S5
- Thread starter Dippy
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 2,163
- Reaction score
- 1,432
- Points
- 113
Here's what you get now. There is no dedicated box (yet), but the distributor (TurboZentrum in Berlin) packed the parts well.
The first job was to use the "keys" to unlatch the MMI head unit and then pull it mostly out. I put an old towel over the gear shifter and console to protect them. I didn't know if I needed to remove any cables yet so I didn't.
Now I needed to remove the glovebox. There are 2 screws underneath, 1 behind the fuse panel and 3 at the front on the inside. There are a couple of plastic lugs at the front which just held it in place but with a bit of "wiggling" the unit came free. There is also a piece of plastic trim underneath which covers a gap between the the glovebox and the transmission tunnel. It popped out on its own. I didn't notice it until it came to refit the gearbox but fortunately it is just held on by a single spring clip so was undamaged.
Now I needed to locate the CAN module. The red plug is just visible at the top right of the picture above. Here's a better one.
So I removed that red plug ready to fit the cable adapter/loom (after first fitting the plug just removed into the socket on the adapter). This was a bit tricky because the red plug used on the adapter has an angled cable restraint which makes it ideal for use on a LHD car. But on my RHD car this part of the plug fouls part of the trim when inserting it. I thought I might need to unbolt the CAN module but by being careful I managed to insert it. Once the plug was fully inserted, the angled part is not touching the trim. I then fed the cable which connects to the unit through a lower gap (not the bracket which the head slides on) and into the void behind the head and climate control units.
Now I moved that cable underneath the head unit cables to the other side. Then I connected it to the FIS-Control MMI unit and also connected the other supplied cable to the "headunit" connector.
Then I removed the cable with the grey connector from the head unit and plugged it into the "display" connector on FIS-Control MMI, and plugged the other end of the supplied cable into the now spare connector on the head unit.
All done, so now I needed to get this addition into the void behind the climate control unit and below the head unit. There is plenty of space.
However before doing anything else I decided to check that nothing had gone wrong. I broke out HEX-NET and fired up VCDS. There was a DTC for 5F-Information Electr. (the MMI) for intermittent loss of LVDS (display) but of course that is not surprising. DTC cleared - no return. However there was no DTC for the CAN despite having disconnected the cable. I did an autoscan and all was clear.
However of course I had to switch the car power in to do this and had seen the FIS-Control MMI "boot" screen (a message about connecting with bluetooth) so I knew it was operational. So I decided to go ahead and put the glovebox back and push the head unit back into the console.
Next I followed the instructions for FIS-Control MMI to connect my android tablet and upload the latest firmware, and two graphics files. I had also prepared my first setting file so I uploaded that. The procedure is not entirely simple, but not complicated either and I got used to it quickly.
Anyway when I rebooted to see my successful installation, I was disappointed. No needles on the gauges and no measurements in the list screen.
So time to test the FIS-Control customer support - which was excellent. Stefan explained that some ECUs can only handle a group size of 8, so I had to remove two measurements. A corrected setting file later the measurements appeared and so did the needles. I noticed that the charge pressure values were wrong and that turned out to be a bug, so a short time later and new firmware, that was corrected. The final part - labels on the gauges - was down to me. I needed to modify the supplied background image using an application called PhotoLine (shareware). This took a bit of time to learn and a bit of care to position the labels. Then I converted the image file using Stefan's website and uploaded it. Here's the result.
Undoubtedly I'll need to redo my background if I find that my ranges are wrong, but now that I have done it once it will be quick and easy to change. I'll probably also find that my list of 8 measurements needs to change. For example I wanted to see the supercharger rpm really to find out when the clutch operates (so far I have not seen it open!). However since this is simply nearly 3 x my engine rpm it has no value in the long term (and battery voltage will be a more useful reading to have). I have already suggested to Stefan that a second page of measurements will be useful as a future enhancement.
On that subject it is clear that Stefan already has enhancements in the works. So right now this is all FIS-Control MMI does. Although I am happy with it as it is now, I hope that Stefan continues to develop new features, as he did for the original FIS-Control which uses the DIS on older cars. Hopefully other people will buy FIS-Control MMI in order to keep his development funded!
The first job was to use the "keys" to unlatch the MMI head unit and then pull it mostly out. I put an old towel over the gear shifter and console to protect them. I didn't know if I needed to remove any cables yet so I didn't.
Now I needed to remove the glovebox. There are 2 screws underneath, 1 behind the fuse panel and 3 at the front on the inside. There are a couple of plastic lugs at the front which just held it in place but with a bit of "wiggling" the unit came free. There is also a piece of plastic trim underneath which covers a gap between the the glovebox and the transmission tunnel. It popped out on its own. I didn't notice it until it came to refit the gearbox but fortunately it is just held on by a single spring clip so was undamaged.
Now I needed to locate the CAN module. The red plug is just visible at the top right of the picture above. Here's a better one.
So I removed that red plug ready to fit the cable adapter/loom (after first fitting the plug just removed into the socket on the adapter). This was a bit tricky because the red plug used on the adapter has an angled cable restraint which makes it ideal for use on a LHD car. But on my RHD car this part of the plug fouls part of the trim when inserting it. I thought I might need to unbolt the CAN module but by being careful I managed to insert it. Once the plug was fully inserted, the angled part is not touching the trim. I then fed the cable which connects to the unit through a lower gap (not the bracket which the head slides on) and into the void behind the head and climate control units.
Now I moved that cable underneath the head unit cables to the other side. Then I connected it to the FIS-Control MMI unit and also connected the other supplied cable to the "headunit" connector.
Then I removed the cable with the grey connector from the head unit and plugged it into the "display" connector on FIS-Control MMI, and plugged the other end of the supplied cable into the now spare connector on the head unit.
All done, so now I needed to get this addition into the void behind the climate control unit and below the head unit. There is plenty of space.
However before doing anything else I decided to check that nothing had gone wrong. I broke out HEX-NET and fired up VCDS. There was a DTC for 5F-Information Electr. (the MMI) for intermittent loss of LVDS (display) but of course that is not surprising. DTC cleared - no return. However there was no DTC for the CAN despite having disconnected the cable. I did an autoscan and all was clear.
However of course I had to switch the car power in to do this and had seen the FIS-Control MMI "boot" screen (a message about connecting with bluetooth) so I knew it was operational. So I decided to go ahead and put the glovebox back and push the head unit back into the console.
Next I followed the instructions for FIS-Control MMI to connect my android tablet and upload the latest firmware, and two graphics files. I had also prepared my first setting file so I uploaded that. The procedure is not entirely simple, but not complicated either and I got used to it quickly.
Anyway when I rebooted to see my successful installation, I was disappointed. No needles on the gauges and no measurements in the list screen.
So time to test the FIS-Control customer support - which was excellent. Stefan explained that some ECUs can only handle a group size of 8, so I had to remove two measurements. A corrected setting file later the measurements appeared and so did the needles. I noticed that the charge pressure values were wrong and that turned out to be a bug, so a short time later and new firmware, that was corrected. The final part - labels on the gauges - was down to me. I needed to modify the supplied background image using an application called PhotoLine (shareware). This took a bit of time to learn and a bit of care to position the labels. Then I converted the image file using Stefan's website and uploaded it. Here's the result.
Undoubtedly I'll need to redo my background if I find that my ranges are wrong, but now that I have done it once it will be quick and easy to change. I'll probably also find that my list of 8 measurements needs to change. For example I wanted to see the supercharger rpm really to find out when the clutch operates (so far I have not seen it open!). However since this is simply nearly 3 x my engine rpm it has no value in the long term (and battery voltage will be a more useful reading to have). I have already suggested to Stefan that a second page of measurements will be useful as a future enhancement.
On that subject it is clear that Stefan already has enhancements in the works. So right now this is all FIS-Control MMI does. Although I am happy with it as it is now, I hope that Stefan continues to develop new features, as he did for the original FIS-Control which uses the DIS on older cars. Hopefully other people will buy FIS-Control MMI in order to keep his development funded!
Last edited:
Very comprehensive @Dippy - thanks. It is definitely on my to-do list however, I won't be comfortable doing it all by myself. I might ask Mark if he would be able to look into it for me.
Also, I would think that under 'Car Settings' you now have an option to view this screen?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Very neat install @Dippy, and like @Tashfeen says, a great write-up too.
I suspect this not be something I'll be doing, but I will still be following the story with interest. I do have one question. Bearing in mind observations you've made earlier, is this something that would necessitate notifying your insurer as a modification?
I suspect this not be something I'll be doing, but I will still be following the story with interest. I do have one question. Bearing in mind observations you've made earlier, is this something that would necessitate notifying your insurer as a modification?
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 2,163
- Reaction score
- 1,432
- Points
- 113
Hi @Tashfeen - I'll fit it for you if you want - I don't think you live too far from me.
The screens are enabled/selected with the steering wheel controls. It's not so much integrated into the existing MMI, more like temporarily switched in instead of it.
@jdp1962 - of course it is. I put it on my mods list held by my insurer - no change to premium.
I changed my gauges already. My OCD made me use steps of 0.5 for the boost gauge because I thought it would look better. But it looked wrong for peak boost not being near the gauge maximum, so I now have 0.4 steps - the boost seems to peak at around 1.3 to 1.4 bar above ambient. I'm not sure if I'll keep both the torque and boost gauges because fundamentally they show the same thing (in terms of driving "aid"). However I don't know what I'd have instead. I certainly like having the EGT gauge - the temperature changes much more than I expected, and when using a lot of boost it soon gets to around 950C. Since we know that the cats on these cars are vulnerable, I like to be aware of how much I'm heating them. I may set one gauge to show the sensor which is nearer the cat for a while.
I'm also seeing the supercharger clutch in operation - I had been confused because the revs are never zero, which I guess makes sense as it is a magnetic clutch. During idle and lift-off, the revs fall. A idle it can be down to 200-300 rpm.
I haven't worked out what the bypass valve measurement is showing yet. I have added the one which shows % instead of the driver requested torque so that I can see them side-by-side and try to work it out.
The screens are enabled/selected with the steering wheel controls. It's not so much integrated into the existing MMI, more like temporarily switched in instead of it.
@jdp1962 - of course it is. I put it on my mods list held by my insurer - no change to premium.
I changed my gauges already. My OCD made me use steps of 0.5 for the boost gauge because I thought it would look better. But it looked wrong for peak boost not being near the gauge maximum, so I now have 0.4 steps - the boost seems to peak at around 1.3 to 1.4 bar above ambient. I'm not sure if I'll keep both the torque and boost gauges because fundamentally they show the same thing (in terms of driving "aid"). However I don't know what I'd have instead. I certainly like having the EGT gauge - the temperature changes much more than I expected, and when using a lot of boost it soon gets to around 950C. Since we know that the cats on these cars are vulnerable, I like to be aware of how much I'm heating them. I may set one gauge to show the sensor which is nearer the cat for a while.
I'm also seeing the supercharger clutch in operation - I had been confused because the revs are never zero, which I guess makes sense as it is a magnetic clutch. During idle and lift-off, the revs fall. A idle it can be down to 200-300 rpm.
I haven't worked out what the bypass valve measurement is showing yet. I have added the one which shows % instead of the driver requested torque so that I can see them side-by-side and try to work it out.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 2,163
- Reaction score
- 1,432
- Points
- 113
I also watched my IAT during a long drive last night. Ambient was around 29C and IAT got to about 50C maximum. Of course it would rise quickly with boost, but then fall as the car's speed aided heat transfer out of the rads. I'm on stock cooling and from what I see I would have to be driving hard continually in order for IAT to be a problem. But I'm relying on the "torque limitation due to IAT" measurement to verify - if I don't see it drop below 100% then I think that the stock cooling must be OK for me.
This is very kind of you @Dippy - much appreciated. I will get in touch as soon as I have bought one
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 2,163
- Reaction score
- 1,432
- Points
- 113
Well I did it slowly as it was the first time I did it, and that was about 2 hours. But it can easily be done in less than an hour. Customising the gauges took a bit of time, but again I got quicker the second time. I changed the boost gauge from 0.5 steps to 0.4 steps and the whole process took about 15-20 mins.
Sorry - what more do you need to know other than my step-by-step guide above?
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 2,163
- Reaction score
- 1,432
- Points
- 113
I have been monitoring exhaust temperatures. I set two gauges to bank 1 and bank 2 and also enabled the "temp before cat" measurements for each bank. At first I was surprised at how close the pairs of readings were - typically separated by no more than 1C. But then when I used a lot of boost and the temps got high (over 1000C at one point), I saw a difference - bank 2 was higher than bank 2 by about 30-40C (difficult to be sure whilst driving).
It was interesting to see the difference between the EGT sensors which I assume are on or close to the manifolds, and the ones "before cat" which presumably are on the downpipe. At low temps the difference was around 50C, but at high temps it was up to 120C I think.
It was interesting to see the difference between the EGT sensors which I assume are on or close to the manifolds, and the ones "before cat" which presumably are on the downpipe. At low temps the difference was around 50C, but at high temps it was up to 120C I think.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 2,163
- Reaction score
- 1,432
- Points
- 113
I have been monitoring the supercharger revs for a few days now. It's still not clear to me all the criteria the ECU uses to decide when to open the clutch. Certainly at low engine revs - somewhere less than 1500 - it is open. So in D4 or D5 at 30 mph the clutch will be open. When I accelerate I can clearly see - and feel - when the clutch closes. It somewhat reminds me of turbo lag. I have seen it open when cruising at higher speeds, but I think it depends on load and throttle. In S the clutch seems to be mostly closed, although I have seen it open at low speeds. I think keeping the supercharger revs on one of the gauges is good as it allows me to know at a glance if the clutch is closed and so I'll get that instant acceleration.
So far my peak boost seems to be around 1.25 bar / 18 psi.
So far my peak boost seems to be around 1.25 bar / 18 psi.
I sort of follow what you said here. Before purchasing my S5, most reviews where talking about instantaneous power with no lag unlike turbo cars. However one thing I have noticed is, when in D, no matter what speed I do (30mph +), if I completely floor the throttle, I hear the loud roar from the supercharger and the rev counter jumps up a few 1000 revs. After 1-2 seconds the rev counter comes back down (pedal to the floor still) and then the car launches forward.
I've noticed that this also happens when in S, although much less. The power seems to be there alot quicker when on full throttle, in other words there is much less supercharger lag.
Makes me wonder if those reviews that described the super charger as lag free power, did they even floor the throttle!
Mine does this, however I believe it’s just the gearbox changing the already preselected gear whilst rev matching the gear is going to select.
I’ve found that using the manual mode or kicking the kick down button then letting go straight away and then putting the throttle all the way down immediately this stops the lag feeling
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 2,163
- Reaction score
- 1,432
- Points
- 113
Because its not an on/off clutch, presumably because it is magnetic. When the clutch is open the supercharger is spinning, but at a low rate. When the engine is idle the supercharger spins at around 300 rpm. At higher engine revs it increases a bit, but I haven't paid attention to how much more.
Agreed, don't confuse my description of the supercharger clutch operation with that of the gearbox. D is simply awful on these S-cars. I particularly hate that in D4 at 30 mph, an attempt to accelerate to 50 mph "reasonably" quickly can fail when the 'box immediately switches to D5. However it is clear to me now that the CREC engine does have an additional lag when the clutch needs to close. Instantaneous torque is only available with that clutch already closed, and the best way to be sure that it is closed, is to be in S (and ADS dynamic if applicable).
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 2,163
- Reaction score
- 1,432
- Points
- 113
That's very subjective of course! In some respects it is expensive for what it is, but I am anticipating that over time there will be firmware updates which will extend functionality. It already has the capability of displaying notifications from a paired Android device, but the developer has not had time to provide instructions on how to set this up. Nevertheless for what it does now, it is worth the money to me, for the following reasons, which of course all have an OCD element 
1) I like having a boost gauge. On my B5 S4 I had a genuine reason for this because of the serious consequence of a air leak. There's not such a risk with a supercharger, however I like to have feedback other than seat-of-the-pants acceleration that the engine is performing as it should, and seeing the boost reach its expected peak does that.
2) As you know our cats are weak points, especially on tuned cars. Even though my EGT gauge is based on a calculated value rather than a sensor, it is great to be able to see what temperature they are likely to be running at. This means if I'm driving a but too enthusiastically and the gauge stays high then I can see it and calm down a bit. Otherwise it would be guesswork.
3) Same for the supercharger clutch. Now that I have a supercharger revs gauge I should be able to notice any slip. At least then I'll be able to plan to have to replace it rather than wait until it fails.
4) Since deciding to stay with stock charge cooling, I have always wondered if it is doing enough. Now that I can see IAT and the torque limitation due to high IAT (which has always been 100%), I shall be able to see if my cooling is enough or not.
1) I like having a boost gauge. On my B5 S4 I had a genuine reason for this because of the serious consequence of a air leak. There's not such a risk with a supercharger, however I like to have feedback other than seat-of-the-pants acceleration that the engine is performing as it should, and seeing the boost reach its expected peak does that.
2) As you know our cats are weak points, especially on tuned cars. Even though my EGT gauge is based on a calculated value rather than a sensor, it is great to be able to see what temperature they are likely to be running at. This means if I'm driving a but too enthusiastically and the gauge stays high then I can see it and calm down a bit. Otherwise it would be guesswork.
3) Same for the supercharger clutch. Now that I have a supercharger revs gauge I should be able to notice any slip. At least then I'll be able to plan to have to replace it rather than wait until it fails.
4) Since deciding to stay with stock charge cooling, I have always wondered if it is doing enough. Now that I can see IAT and the torque limitation due to high IAT (which has always been 100%), I shall be able to see if my cooling is enough or not.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 2,163
- Reaction score
- 1,432
- Points
- 113
I have observed that the supercharger revs do vary a lot when the clutch is open. Cruising at 30mph with the lightest of throttle, it is about 400-500rpm, with the engine revs around 1500rpm or a bit lower. Then if I push very lightly on the accelerator the supercharger can reach somewhere around 1200-1500rpm with no perceptible change to engine revs. This would have opened the throttle valve slightly, but I simply can't imagine that the airflow would push the rotors to turn faster? The only other possibility is that the clutch is actually variable - is the ECU actually increasing current to increase the magnetic field in preparation for full "closure" should I accelerate more?
Have to say, the S/C clutch is one of the more interesting ones. Until this part of your thread started, we thought crank
ulley == how fast supercharger span. Would be interesting to see your observations on, say, 5k rpm on the rev. counter and what the S/C said it was spinning at given the pulley ratio. Should be ~15k - right. Is it?
ulley == how fast supercharger span. Would be interesting to see your observations on, say, 5k rpm on the rev. counter and what the S/C said it was spinning at given the pulley ratio. Should be ~15k - right. Is it?
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 2,163
- Reaction score
- 1,432
- Points
- 113
Exactly, although I do have a bit of trouble checking the gauges whilst driving hard. But I have definitely noticed that at 3000 engine rpm the supercharger was at about 9000 rpm.
All pre-CREC engines should always have supercharger revs == drive ratio x engine revs (where drive ratio is crank pulley diameter / supercharger pulley diameter - which is 162 / 63.25 for a stock car)
All pre-CREC engines should always have supercharger revs == drive ratio x engine revs (where drive ratio is crank pulley diameter / supercharger pulley diameter - which is 162 / 63.25 for a stock car)
Back to the gear box... I’ve just had mine serviced and I believe to Audi’s procedure to re adapt the gearbox’s values along with an oil change has significantly reduced lag
Do they do the readaptation as part of the gearbox service or is it that you asked them to. I believe the reduced lag might be either placebo effect or the service has made some difference ...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I believe so (after reading numerous posts) but I asked them to reset it anyway just as a precaution. Its definitely not a placebo effect as I had a Bentley Continental wanting a play and as soon as I hit the kick down the power was ready immediately
Gearbox reset is available via VCDS. Mine needed a reset last year and it helped. It appears (from the terse descriptions in VCDS) that the adaptation is to do with figuring out the bite points of the clutches, so may be worthwhile every 10k or so. It does click and clunk a lot whilst it is doing the adaptation. See rough overview here: http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/7-Speed_S-Tronic_Direct-Shift_Gearbox_(DSG/0B5) and videos on YT.
Know it can be reset via VCDS but I am not sure about resetting it after every 10k miles. Are you constantly making the gearbox learn and as soon as it does you ask it to forget and restart the cycle. From what I gather one shouldn't be doing it on a constant basis??
Can I ask why did you need the reset; was it due to suoer-charger clutch replacement that resulted in reset??
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just wasn't behaving sensibly on hard acceleration. Would pause revs for half a second. Am going to get my gearbox service done in 1-2k (am currently on 25k miles) when the car goes in for its next regular service. I will reset it after that.
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2011
- Messages
- 400
- Reaction score
- 30
- Points
- 28
Dippy,
Have you considered the Carplay retrofit? I ask because I’m very keen on the FIS Control MMI but it looks to me like it will need to daisy chain through the same multiplugs. It’s also controlled via steering wheel controls in the same way so I’m unsure if the two can be installed concurrently.
Have you considered the Carplay retrofit? I ask because I’m very keen on the FIS Control MMI but it looks to me like it will need to daisy chain through the same multiplugs. It’s also controlled via steering wheel controls in the same way so I’m unsure if the two can be installed concurrently.
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2011
- Messages
- 400
- Reaction score
- 30
- Points
- 28
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2011
- Messages
- 400
- Reaction score
- 30
- Points
- 28
Forgot to say yes, it’s for iPhone but also android although reports with android have been questionable.
My concern with the FIS control is not having an android tablet for writing the graphics data to it.
Don’t suppose it can support data logging or digital hold (in the centre of dial) of peak value?
I’d be looking to display engine oil pressure, boost and probably oil temperature for default settings.
Why is nice but primarily for tuning.
If I want a fluid damper for my crank pulley, can someone point me to a compatible charger drive wheel? I think I’m willing to risk higher than 2.99 ratio. Reason I say this is I believe the slip is related to the reaction torque from the compressor more than the speed, which means it will be a function of boost pressure. I’d be happy with the capacity to spin faster but bleed off the boost to the same levels as you have seen.
If the boost pressure is a limitation, I’d also be looking to improve volumetric efficiency possibly at lower boosts, to reduce the strain on the magnetic clutch. Maybe a better charge cooler with reduced back pressure, even something like an eventuri intake to increase the pressure ratio across the compressor.
My concern with the FIS control is not having an android tablet for writing the graphics data to it.
Don’t suppose it can support data logging or digital hold (in the centre of dial) of peak value?
I’d be looking to display engine oil pressure, boost and probably oil temperature for default settings.
Why is nice but primarily for tuning.
If I want a fluid damper for my crank pulley, can someone point me to a compatible charger drive wheel? I think I’m willing to risk higher than 2.99 ratio. Reason I say this is I believe the slip is related to the reaction torque from the compressor more than the speed, which means it will be a function of boost pressure. I’d be happy with the capacity to spin faster but bleed off the boost to the same levels as you have seen.
If the boost pressure is a limitation, I’d also be looking to improve volumetric efficiency possibly at lower boosts, to reduce the strain on the magnetic clutch. Maybe a better charge cooler with reduced back pressure, even something like an eventuri intake to increase the pressure ratio across the compressor.
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2011
- Messages
- 400
- Reaction score
- 30
- Points
- 28
Stefan came back to me and confirmed the answer that there will be no problem.
With that, I’m going to order one.
With that, I’m going to order one.
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2011
- Messages
- 400
- Reaction score
- 30
- Points
- 28
Dippy,
Just reading back over this, and can’t find the answer. What size crank pulley did you go for when choosing your v-damper?
I’m very much thinking of going the same route.
I’m struggling to understand why everyone wouldn’t just go for the largest if the extra boost can be bled off at will and even the max speed remains within normal parameters for the Eaton supercharger.
Also, did you get stung for import duty?
Just reading back over this, and can’t find the answer. What size crank pulley did you go for when choosing your v-damper?
I’m very much thinking of going the same route.
I’m struggling to understand why everyone wouldn’t just go for the largest if the extra boost can be bled off at will and even the max speed remains within normal parameters for the Eaton supercharger.
Also, did you get stung for import duty?
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 2,163
- Reaction score
- 1,432
- Points
- 113
189mm which is the size MRC use for their most popular stage 2.
The general consensus of opinion is that much larger than this will result in a peak boost which will generate heat beyond what the stock charge cooling can cope with. Of course that depends on driving style. I had planned to start with 189mm and see how my typical temperatures fare and the see if I wanted to go any bigger. Now that I have FIS-Control MMI and I monitor temperatures, I think it is possible that the CREC cooling might be able to cope with a bigger pulley. However with the lack of information about exactly what the supercharger clutch can cope with, and the fact that we know that the cats (which are bit too far upstream) can melt (plenty of reports from the US on this), I don't plan to take my mods further, especially as I'm quite happy with what my 189mm gives me.
Yes I had to pay £65 import duty.
The general consensus of opinion is that much larger than this will result in a peak boost which will generate heat beyond what the stock charge cooling can cope with. Of course that depends on driving style. I had planned to start with 189mm and see how my typical temperatures fare and the see if I wanted to go any bigger. Now that I have FIS-Control MMI and I monitor temperatures, I think it is possible that the CREC cooling might be able to cope with a bigger pulley. However with the lack of information about exactly what the supercharger clutch can cope with, and the fact that we know that the cats (which are bit too far upstream) can melt (plenty of reports from the US on this), I don't plan to take my mods further, especially as I'm quite happy with what my 189mm gives me.
Yes I had to pay £65 import duty.
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2011
- Messages
- 400
- Reaction score
- 30
- Points
- 28
Thanks for the info. Very helpful.
Re the cars melting, I’m assuming like the GTR there are four cats, two in the downpipes and two further downstream.
Just wondering other than poor mapping (egts climbing too high due to running too lean) why the cats should be more prone to failure than on other cars.
Re the cars melting, I’m assuming like the GTR there are four cats, two in the downpipes and two further downstream.
Just wondering other than poor mapping (egts climbing too high due to running too lean) why the cats should be more prone to failure than on other cars.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 2,163
- Reaction score
- 1,432
- Points
- 113
You probably know more about it than me. Unfortunately some of the US reports are for stock cars, but of course as with all web forum failure reports, there are not enough of them and the facts are not always clear so it is difficult to reach any conclusions.
Although the EGTs are calculated, the ones for near the cats that I am monitoring can easily get to around 850-900C without particularly hard driving. I can imaging for some of those US owners on the drag strip and definitely those who track their cars could have the cats operating at 1000C or more for extended periods?
Although the EGTs are calculated, the ones for near the cats that I am monitoring can easily get to around 850-900C without particularly hard driving. I can imaging for some of those US owners on the drag strip and definitely those who track their cars could have the cats operating at 1000C or more for extended periods?
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2011
- Messages
- 400
- Reaction score
- 30
- Points
- 28
Cars tend to get much hotter on extended periods of cruising than when running lots of boost. That’s because the task on cruise is efficiency and so running lean is the goal.
On boost fuelling is of course important but you tend towards run on the rich side to give you a safety net. EGTs certainly do climb but a decent map should keep them under control. With turbo charged cars, which are my background, egt have to be kept in check to safeguard that integrity of the turbine although the exhaust valve seat is a typical failure point.
On boost fuelling is of course important but you tend towards run on the rich side to give you a safety net. EGTs certainly do climb but a decent map should keep them under control. With turbo charged cars, which are my background, egt have to be kept in check to safeguard that integrity of the turbine although the exhaust valve seat is a typical failure point.
I'm not sure how I came across it but, it's probably because you're one of the only users of it, on the B8.5 platform in the UK. As such I'm very interested to know how you're getting on with the FIS-Control device?
I had a AutoPolar PolarFIS Advanced on my previous Golf and found it immensely useful. So I'm keen to get something similar for the S4.
Paul
I had a AutoPolar PolarFIS Advanced on my previous Golf and found it immensely useful. So I'm keen to get something similar for the S4.
Paul
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 2,163
- Reaction score
- 1,432
- Points
- 113
Obviously the novelty has worn off a bit, but I'm very happy with it. Although I am hoping that the firmware will be developed in the future to add functionality, I do find the gauges very helpful. Whilst the EGT and boost gauges are primarily for me to monitor the 'health' of the car, the supercharger revs gauge helps in driving. If I'm about to overtake I can glance at it and see if the clutch is engaged or not, and if not blip the throttle to ensure that boost will be available exactly when I need it (of course this is only useful since I have a CREC engine). Other readings such as IAT are useful so that I can monitor if my stock charge cooling is handling the temps (and so far it is). Of course I guess that as time passes I'll find these readings and gauges less useful, but as I mentioned hopefully other toys will be added in firmware updates.
The novelty wearing off is understandable, but it sounds as though it's still useful to you, everytime you use the car.
I found the same thing with the PolarFIS. For 95% of the time, I had one screen that I used with 8 values displayed and of those 8, I used IAT, outside temp and engine oil temp every drive. The two former to monitor heatsoak on a modded airbox and the latter to let me know when I could use the cars performance (I.e. not before it got to 70 degrees C). I miss having the IAT temp on the S4 as I've 'played' with the airbox and boost would be good to see the results of the airbox mods and the supercharger porting I did. I have engine oil temp from the lap timer mod.
The measurement value that really caught my eye is turbine speed. Very geeky! Trasmission oil temp would be a good one too.
I think I'll add it to my list and keep an eye out for any updates that come over the horizon.
Paul
I found the same thing with the PolarFIS. For 95% of the time, I had one screen that I used with 8 values displayed and of those 8, I used IAT, outside temp and engine oil temp every drive. The two former to monitor heatsoak on a modded airbox and the latter to let me know when I could use the cars performance (I.e. not before it got to 70 degrees C). I miss having the IAT temp on the S4 as I've 'played' with the airbox and boost would be good to see the results of the airbox mods and the supercharger porting I did. I have engine oil temp from the lap timer mod.
The measurement value that really caught my eye is turbine speed. Very geeky! Trasmission oil temp would be a good one too.
I think I'll add it to my list and keep an eye out for any updates that come over the horizon.
Paul
