moonlight
Registered User
Here's a facelift A3 Saloon with GB plates (honestjohn review), looks silver to me! I've ordered an A3 Saloon in this colour so I'm hoping mine looks the same!
Hmm. That colour looks stunning. ....aaaaaargh.
Facelift THE NEW AUDI A3 (2016 FACELIFT) – STILL AHEAD OF THE CURVE
- Thread starter Sandra
- Start date
Hmm. That colour looks stunning. ....aaaaaargh.
moonlight
Registered User
Yup! That's the exact picture I saw yesterday, then called Audi to change my colour from Daytona Grey to Tango Red. Confirmation came through this morning.
Don't be fooled by industry press photography Tango red is a extremely dark red,do you remember seeing the old Toyota Prius on the road when it first appeared well...? think...tango,if that's your thing fair play
I'd be amazed if they've "just guessed" these figures, given the $50bn costs they face from diesel-gate.
Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk
Yeah I know, I popped into Audi yesterday and saw the A4 in Tango Red out in the rain, looked nice enough in British overcast skies so I figured it would be a good choice. I love Daytona grey but I feel I should hold onto my youth a little longer with flashy red! Has the swatches for Tango Red and misano red, Tango is definitely a little darker but seems to have more speckle, considering its a metallic colour vs a pearlescent.
I'd be amazed if they had any relevance at all to real life. $50bn costs or otherwise, this is the automotive sector we're talking about, historically lying ******** to a man, with morals lower than a snakes naughty bits. Diesel-gate is just the latest scandal in a history littered with deception.
I know everyone's keen to explore the minutia of the latest car, but the published figures from Audi are of almost no use in doing it.
The numbers they post are not comparable to real life. They are, in short, ********, and any conclusion you draw using them will also therefore be riddled with untruth and irrelevance.
moonlight
Registered User
Indeed when I had my red head on I looked at a tango tt Looked a tad cherry red ..and it didn't bowl me over ! I d have chosen tango on these pics but not after seeing the tt.... All subjective I know and it is still a great red if it's red that you are after .... I may regret not ever owning a red car ...some red cars look wow some look meh and the meh has always irked me This pic is not a true representation of tango ... If only it was
Anyone considered taking the facelift S3 on lease? I do around 6-7k a year and not too fussed on adding any options with the exception of S Tronic and Daytona Grey finish and was given the below quote.
Audi S3 Sportback S Tronic
Metallic/pearl finish
2 years (8000 miles per year)
£976.47 initial payment
£325.49 per month
Works out paying 24% of the OTR to drive the car for 2 years which is probably less than the depreciation. Also includes road fund license for the duration which is another £370 saved.
Audi S3 Sportback S Tronic
Metallic/pearl finish
2 years (8000 miles per year)
£976.47 initial payment
£325.49 per month
Works out paying 24% of the OTR to drive the car for 2 years which is probably less than the depreciation. Also includes road fund license for the duration which is another £370 saved.
That, Sir, is the best post I have read in ages.
My wife and I, are really disappointed that her new A3 1.6L 105PS diesel was supposed to get 70+ mpg according to the official Audi figures and in real life she gets around 50 mpg. My 5 year old (Diesel-gate) Mk6 Golf GTD 2.0L 170PS often gets better fuel economy.
I live in hope (but will likely die in despair) that VAG will clean their act up in the future.
Last edited:
TDI-line
Uber Post Whore
Surely there is enough information out there by now for you to have taken published fuel consumption figures with a 'pinch of salt' and not be taken in. A simple search of the Internet would have revealed what real world mpg you could realistically be expected to see.
I'm not saying the manufactures figures are 'right' and there is certainly a need for a change in how they are calculated, but anyone who is taken in by them must be living in 'la la land'.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I was fully aware that 72mpg (IIRC) was la la land. Though strangely enough my (Diesel-gate) GTD is very close to the manufacturer's figures.
What I did not expect is the real world economy to be so far away from Audi figures. From reading forums - I expected the car to average around 15% lower. We will both be very happy if the car averages 60mpg. But the car was getting low fifties. Close to 30% lower than Audi figures and similar to my performance Golf.
I asked this morning how the fuel economy is now and apparently the car has improved since it's second service and over 40k miles. I checked and the long term average over the last 1.2k miles is 58mpg. So around 20% below Audi figures.
I know there is going to be a new fuel economy testing procedure introduced and a quick search found this - http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-16-168_en.htm
"17. How are CO2 emissions tested and what is the Commission doing to address shortcomings of measuring CO2 emissions?
Currently, CO2 emissions are measured in a laboratory according to the New European Driving Cycle (NEDC). The Commission is aware of the significant divergence between current test cycle measurements and actual emissions in real world driving. These shortcomings will be addressed with the introduction of a new testing procedure, the Worldwide Harmonised Light-Duty Test Procedure (WLTP), as agreed in the framework of UNECE and requested by Regulation 333/2014 on CO2 emissions from cars. The new test procedure should ensure that the measurements better reflect emissions in real driving conditions and that there is less flexibility in carrying out the tests. The Commission is working towards September 2017 as a target date for WLTP to be in place, coinciding with the timing for the entry into force of RDE testing for NOx."
I'm guessing this will only apply to new car models introduced after that date.
New emission standards are due to be introduced around 2020.
Expect to see big changes between now and then.
I wish I could wait to buy a car until 2020. Maybe by then I won't have to guess what the actual fuel economy of a new car might be.
Last edited:
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/official-fuel-consumption-figures.html
"New test procedures based on the WLTC should be in force and applied to new models from 2017."
"New test procedures based on the WLTC should be in force and applied to new models from 2017."
When I use any mpg figures I use a figure suggested many years ago by the sales manager I always deal with at my dealers. I take the 'Combined' figure and take off 20%. In the past this has always worked out much closer to the mpg I normally get from my A3.
Taking the published figures less 20% for various current models they work out as:
2.0 TDI - 184 stronic quattro - 58.9 less 20% = 47.1mpg
2.0 TFSI - 190 s-tronic quattro - 48.7 less 20% = 39.0mpg
1.4 TFSI - 150 s-tronic - 57.6 less 20% = 46.1mpg
S3 2.0 TFSI - 310 stronic quattro - 43.5 less 20% = 34.8mpg
Obviously mpg figures depend on the journey/speed and the driver but I think these figures are closer to what most people will get in normal day-day driving.
Taking the published figures less 20% for various current models they work out as:
2.0 TDI - 184 stronic quattro - 58.9 less 20% = 47.1mpg
2.0 TFSI - 190 s-tronic quattro - 48.7 less 20% = 39.0mpg
1.4 TFSI - 150 s-tronic - 57.6 less 20% = 46.1mpg
S3 2.0 TFSI - 310 stronic quattro - 43.5 less 20% = 34.8mpg
Obviously mpg figures depend on the journey/speed and the driver but I think these figures are closer to what most people will get in normal day-day driving.
You don't have to guess real world mpg at all, what car and honest john both publish figures you can expect to achieve...
Just looking at the Honest John figures their quoted figure for my current A3 2.0TDI-184 s-tronic quattro is 48.4 where as my 20% less works out at 47.1 so quite close.
When my wife and myself were on holiday in Holland in April I had problems with my right leg and could not drive home. My wife, who has never driven in Europe before, had to drive our A3 home. She tends to drive a little (but not much) slower than I do and for the whole 487 mile journey the fuel consumption was 51.9mpg and the average speed was 60mph.
Average MPG on a S3...32mpg..........after 9k miles, prior to this mileage expect low...20's....diesel engines are on there way oot...Hybrid will be the way forward,why derv ever got through the stringent emission EU LAWS was BEYOND ME...but we all know now....derv engines will be filtered down and down....in the next 5 years and about time aswell
MPG is relative to how you drive the car. My wife has a 65 plate 116ps 1.6TDI A1 and I have seen 50-74mpg with a heavy right foot, mainly dependent upon length of journey and traffic density. Took her car for a 96 mile round trip from Newcastle to Barnard Castle for a job interview at GSK and it did 60mpg there, with a whopping 74mpg coming back. I drive her car hard when i'm in it, rather than my Lapiz Golf R. Most of the time I see 55mpg in it for a journey of less than 20 miles, and she sees 50mpg on her 9 mile commute.
I don't personally feel that the 1.6TDI lump is much more economical than the 2.0TDI lump. Before my Golf R, I had a MK7 Golf GTD (184ps) and Newcastle to Leeds, doing 80mph all the way when traffic allowed, that did me 59mpg with the aircon on during the Summer months. I recently took the A1 to York driving it the same way and it achieved 64mpg. An A1 with that GTD engine would be about 12% lighter, and yet there was only 8% between the mpg of the 2 cars - that 1.6 lump is working harder all the time sat at 80mph.
All of the marques make mpg claims that will only be realised if you drive a constant 55mph on uncluttered roads, stop start tech has had the biggest impact on optimistic mpg as it turns the car off for 24% of the test cycle, upping the official figure by 20% vs non-stop-start predecessors, but failing to make much of a difference to real mpg. Definitely not a VAG specific issue.
I see a 33mpg average on my "40mpg" Golf R, which is better than most see on a Golf R/Audi S3, even though i drive it quite hard, mainly due to my commute being uncluttered and 20 miles long, so 3/4 of the drive is on a warm engine, which makes a huge difference to mpg.
MPG depends heavily on:-
1. Length of the journey - cold cars are very thirsty, the longer the journey, the less effect the cold part of it will be.
2. Traffic. If you can average at least 40mph you will get a decent mpg. If it takes you 3/4 of an hour to do 8 miles through a city then your mpg will be rock bottom.
3. Driving style. I get to my desired speed with a heavy right foot, but i'm quite economical when maintaining that speed, preserving my momentum, letting the car decelerate when I can see the traffic ahead slow or when approaching a roundabout etc.
4. Weather - diesel mpg differences between Summer and winter ambient temp is about 10%, petrols are affected far less. Hot and humid is good for the mpg.
5. Transmission - DSG/S-Tronic is around 10% thirstier than Manual in real life driving.
Last edited:
An S3 could well be my next car, i'm in quite a dilemma over it - I love my Golf R - IMO a 5 door Golf looks better externally than a Sportback A3, but the S3 has far better looking seats (I like the R and S3's interior equally in all aspects except the seats, even though they are set out very differently). Can't believe they ditched Sepang on the facelift, Navarra Blue is far too dark for my tastes, I would probably have to go with Daytona Grey or Floret Silver. How inferior is the S3's handling compared to the R? Enough to detect on a daily basis or only noticeable it you ever took it to the track?
I feel a little cheated financially with the Golf R. When I ordered it, it had 60% GFV, then all the cheap lease deals came through and GFV has dropped to about 50%. I bought mine cash, so was only ever looking to GFV as an indicator as to what it would be worth when I get shot of it, and then VW took 8 months to build the ****** thing! At least the S3 still has noticeably better residual.
I feel a little cheated financially with the Golf R. When I ordered it, it had 60% GFV, then all the cheap lease deals came through and GFV has dropped to about 50%. I bought mine cash, so was only ever looking to GFV as an indicator as to what it would be worth when I get shot of it, and then VW took 8 months to build the ****** thing! At least the S3 still has noticeably better residual.
l take it you got your Golf R....EARLY...in its production?...the S3 optioned right has better private sale residuals,Chop into Audi.....no
I think you're the only person in the country to buy an Mk7 R outright!
I went to a VW dealer recently, someone was about to do the same until he heard about discounts and deals so he refused the car as he only just found out when the car was delivered!
I went to a VW dealer recently, someone was about to do the same until he heard about discounts and deals so he refused the car as he only just found out when the car was delivered!
Not that Early...I ordered it in Sept 14 and it finally turned up May 15 - I think that was mainly due to the optioned 19" Pretoria wheels. I wouldn't normally spend £900 for bigger wheels as I found 18" big enough, but the R's standard 18" Caiz wheels are pig ugly. A lot of people who optioned Pretoria wheels had a longer wait. Meanwhile, the lease deals came in and VW were building those within 3 months.
I probably have to keep the R a fair bit longer to get the best price back selling privately, but considering how long delivery of an S3 would take if ordered now-ish, the Golf would be 18 months old on the S3's arrival. I will probably wait until I see a facelifted S3 in the flesh and by that point the Golf will be 2 years old by the time the new S3 would arrive - giving the R enough time to be cheap enough compared to a new one to be attractive to a used buyer.
I got a broker level discount for it - £32.5k car and I paid £28k inc 5 year warranty which should make it appeal in the used market as the new owner will still have a decent wedge of warranty left. Hoping I would get £21k privately at 2 years old. PCP is silly money when 1/3 of your money spent monthly is interest. Would never pay RRP for any car, always looking for a 12-15% discount on any new VAG.
The golf R...Lease madness was only based on very basic cars...ie DSG/3/5 door variants...OR WITH THE BASIC NAV there is buyers out there that will pay more for well optioned cars
mojo555
Registered User
I've just signed for a similar deal, 7k miles basic white sportback s tronic with rear sensors hill hold and acc
I'm swapping from a golf R, having read about the S3 not being as good I'm just hoping it's not noticeable on a daily basis just when really pushing it.
mojo555
Registered User
Please be sure to post back on here once you get the car and have driven it for a few with your experience
Yup, it seems there will come a point in the very very near future, when diesels will be banned. Moves are already afoot across the channel to do just that, and people I know in London are lobbying very hard to remove them from this fine old city too. Paris has just banned any car registered before 1997 from the city between 0800 and 2000 mon to fri. This can be seen as a move to placate the automakers, who will inevitably be rather cross when Paris follows up with a ban on diesel or perhaps even all fossil fuelled vehicles in the next few years. The Supreme Court in Delhi has banned the sale of diesels over 2000cc, the Netherlands wants to get rid of diesel and petrol cars by 2025, and Norway is well advanced to doing exactly that, since a quarter of new cars sold there are now electric. Ironic really, since Norway is one of the principle suppliers of fossil fuels to the uk...
The fossil fuelled car will be a historical anachronism within our lifetime, and diesel will inevitably go first. If you have one when the ban lands, you're going to be very very glad of VWFS' guaranteed final value, since it's going to be worth bigger all on the used market.
I'd consider my R quite basic - Manual, Lapiz blue paint and the 19" Pretoria wheels were my only options - one thing the R does have in spades vs the S3 (pre-facelift) is standard equipment. It'd have cost about £2700 to spec an S3 to the R's level of equipment, but on the other hand, if you rally wanted leather in your R, you'd have paid about £1750 for the hippo hump leather or £2600 for the nappa.
I'm really not a DSG fan, modern cars are pretty sterile and the refinement of the MQB platform has made the Golf and A3 pretty dull, take away my gear changes and i'd be falling asleep at the wheel. The DSG/S-Tronic will do what you want 95% of the time, but that other 5% would annoy me far too often. Having a free-flowing commute helps that decision not to be DSG, if I was crawling in traffic a lot i'd be thankful for having DSG. The DSG does shave a smidge off the official 0-62 times, but that wasn't really a huge plus for me when there's only 0.2s in it IF you use launch control.
The new 7 speed unit on the facelifted S3 makes it a more tempting proposition though with significantly lower CO2 and noticeably better 0-62 times and fuel economy. When the new car tax regime comes in next April, a manual R/S3 will cost £500 showroom tax, the DSG 7 speed will sneak in under the £200 bracket.
When I first got my GTD it felt much slower than the 170TDI Scirocco that came before it, it's amazing what a better ride and more linear development of power can do to the perception. Being utterly bored with it and the mpg not being as good as i'd hoped, I chopped my 48mpg GTD for a 33mpg R.
You can definitely spot the lease Rs a mile off - they're all white or red with the standard (ugly) Cadiz wheels.
... the Golf will have to get this!
I'm expecting to see something from VW at the Frankfurt motor show at the end of September. Less than 3 months. Though I am leaning towards a new A3/S3, but who knows!
Edit: as discussed else where... horses for courses... all great cars... no wrong decision... it's all win win.
Last edited:
What type of engine will they use to power lorries and buses when diesels are banned?
So far no-one has come up with a really suitable alternative but I read at the weekend in the Audi Driver magazine that VAG are committed to the development of battery technology and pointed out that the company will need 150 gigawatt hours of battery capacity by 2025 for its own fleet alone which is a whole lot of electricity. How will this electricity be generated, coal, gas, nuclear, wind. If all the lorries and buses as well as all the cars in the UK alone are powered by electricity where will the electricity come from?
Most new diesel engined Audi cars except the A3 range now use AdBlue which, according to an article in the same magazine, converts the NOx into the natural harmless substances of nitrogen and water vapour. I assume the next A3 will also have this technology fitted. Ad Blue is already used in almost all new diesel engine lorries and buses. Perhaps Audi are adding it to the new A3-TDI-184 engine which is why it is the only one in the facelift range no yet released.
I'm sure all the different technologies will develop further to allow fossil fuels to be used along side electric cars for some time to come especially until we have the capacity to generate enough electricity for all uses.
Daz: Worst thing about performance VWs is the poor choice of tyres. Bridgestones are the bane of the GTD/GTI for lack of initial traction issues causing tramping. Having Bridgestones on my GTD absolutely ruined it, never had any tramping on the Scirocco that came before it. When my R came with Bridgestones, I decided early doors that they had to go. The 4WD system hid a lot of the Bridgestone's flaws, but they were still fidgety and when the car started to slide in Dec with an ambient 9C temp when crawling around a large roundabout I went out and got some Michelin PSS which completely transformed the car and my confidence in it. Really felt aggrieved that you can spend so much on a car then have to spend another £600 because they fitted ***** tyres. No way they got the performance and economy figures on Bridgestones. As far as i'm aware, the S3 has never had Bridgestones - they usually come on Conti 5s in 19" at least.
Saying that, the wife's A1 came on ****** Hankooks.
Saying that, the wife's A1 came on ****** Hankooks.
This is a solid point.. The electric car is only as eco friendly as the fuel used to make its electricity
A diesel with DPF and Adblue is a pretty good compromise - sorting the soot and the NOx. They need people to dump the pre-DPF diesels for starters with some kind of scrappage incentive - when they put their foot down, the amount of soot that belches out the back is huge. Direct injection petrols also generate soot, arguably more hazardous because it is a smaller diameter, travelling further and getting deeper into the lungs when inhaled. My GTD had spotless tailpipes, my R's innermost tailpipes are black with soot.
Well, some buses in London have been using hydrogen fuel cells for a few years, although these are probably not quite so effective as the trolleybuses that worked London from the '30's to the '60's, which drew electricity direct from the grid via overhead wires. Diesel for heavy transport probably has a good few years left in it, but I think it's days are numbered in private cars.
150 GWh of electricity really isn't that much in the grand scheme of things. It's 2 weeks of output from a single gas turbine, and the London array wind farm in the Thames Estuary produced nearly three times that amount in one month. Producing the power centrally does have benefits, since its far more efficient, and with a decent overnight base load it would become even more so since there would be no need to start and stop the plants quite so often. Renewable energy is growing and growing, over the last year wind power has at times provided upwards of a quarter of the UK's power, meaning conventional plants have sat idle, waiting for the days and nights when solar won't work and there's no wind blowing. There's over 8 GW of solar generation on the system now so there's a lot of generator units sitting idle at times that could be doing something more useful instead, staying hot, and powering cars instead, which has got to be better than a nation of car owners carting around thousands upon thousands of gallons of distilled pis5 to squirt into their exhausts.
Good point. The Mk6 had this issue too. I'll have to remember this when making my decision.
I'm going to have to see this colour first hand. My wife has a red A3 and the car really suits that colour.
I'm trying to decide if 'flashy red' is a good or bad thing. Red is going to be less stealthy. Though the daylight running lights are going to alert other drivers. I sometimes notice the effect my silver GTD has on people. They will suddenly close the gap between the car in front of them. Presumably, they are trying to stop me over-taking. If I know the road well enough and it is safe, I have the power to over-take 2 cars.
I actually like this effect and think red would help. Though one lorry driver nearly ran me off the road rather than let me over-take. 
I wish I had a camera fitted as I would have reported him to his employer for dangerous driving!
