beanoir
Large Member
Just wondering what the general consensus is on this and what level of support the country does or doesn't have for the strike.
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Nice poll.
I don't support them, and I do work in the public sector, and am being affected as much as anyone. Some people need to be welcomed back into the real world I think. Who's being affected most by this? The parent having to use up their valuable annual leave because the teachers are happy to let down the kids they promised to educate? The patient who's appointment is cancelled (again?), the patient who dies because the paramedics don't reach them in time as their colleagues are on strike. Or the family who've worked hard and saved all year for an annual holiday having it wrecked by airport staff.
Or the government?
You know what, I really get the impression that the only people who want this strike are the militant far left who will do anything to be anti Tory. But hey lets leave the politics for another happier day yes ?
I believe you are right, living in the 70s.
I actually think that even our Tory government are not going far enough with the current austerity measures. The entire public sector needs a BIG shake up and probably about 20% reduction of dead wood. Then keep a better pension and pay deal for those hard workers that are left.
In terms of pensions, yes the goal posts have been moved,,,, but as it's my taxes paying for their pension (as well as my own), I think they should be more F**KING GRATEFUL, bow their heads in shame, go back to work, and remember just how well off they still are.!
Can you explain how your taxes pay for my pension?..
Just plain old..
Yeah I'm serious.. !
Do you pay different taxes to me?!
Can you explain to me how, for example; if the government close the loophole of the rich avoiding paying stamp duty, by purchasing their house with an offshore account... How that will not benefit this country?.. surely you can see that?!
I take your point about the media saying what they believe they want us to hear... but can that not be true of government as well then?! ..
This works perfectly for government, making you believe (private sector) that it's all our fault (public sector) ... deflecting away perfectly from whose fault this mess is...
Just plain old;
But I am a taxpayer myself.. and I make my contributions into a pension fund....?
Yes, and as a taxpayer I also make a contribution to your pension fund,,, but you dont make any contribution to mine....!
Because you'd end up with less of the super rich buying property in this country they'd buy in other countries, or they'd rent or else. The net effect of penalising the super rich is that you ultimately lose them altogether, and the country can't afford to do that. You'll find that that their country of residence is of little bother to most of them, and if ours decides to penalise them they'll take up residence somewhere else, many of them are jet-setting around so much it makes little difference to them.
What would you lose? Well, the super rich are already paying one hell of a lot more tax than you or I do in a life time, and as a group even with their tax avoidance measures they still contribute about 15% of the countries personal tax income, if I was running the country, i'd value that at the moment. I agree they could be forced to pay more, but at what risk, losing the wealthy and ending up with something lower than 15% - just to keep the lower earners and the lefties happy, helps votes but doesn't make for a sensible economic policy.
Absolutely, that why I make my statements from experience (read above), not from reading the papers or listening to politicians.
I'm intrigued to hear who's fault this mess is...?
Beanoir, 15% doesn't seem that much to me..
I read somewhere that the top 5% of earners in this country only contribute the same amount of tax as the lowest 5% of earners in this country... there's something fundamentally wrong there..
Number | 29.5 Million | 4.21 Million | 421,000 | 42,000 |
Entry level for group | £5,093 | £35,345 | £99,727 | £351,137 |
Mean value for group | £24,769 | £49,960 | £155,832 | £780,043 |
Average income tax paid | £4,415 | £10,550 | £49,477 | £274,482 |
Percentage of personal income tax revenue | 27.6% | 8.6% | 4.2% |
It would take a better fiscal mind than mine, to explain who's fault this is, but I guess you want my opinion.. I think there are a number of issues which have contributed, the previous government certainly didn't help, as did the banking crisis, the failure of the Euro.....
Really!? What are you smoking?
Thats about £23 billion of income every year, without it I can assure you your pension forecasts and terms and conditions would be looking a lot more shaky.
you read that somewhere did you...probably the Guardian again i'm guessing. By the way, you only need to be earning about £58,000 a year to be in the top 5% of earners in the UK, that certainly does not clasify a person as super rich.
If you do your homework, these are the facts.
Number
29.5 Million
4.21 Million
421,000
42,000
Entry level for group
£5,093
£35,345
£99,727
£351,137
Mean value for group
£24,769
£49,960
£155,832
£780,043
Average income tax paid
£4,415
£10,550
£49,477
£274,482
Percentage of personal income tax revenue
27.6%
8.6%
4.2%
You'll see from this that the top earners do contribute more than their fair share already. This was produced by the Institue of Fiscal Studies by the way.
And and have you ever looked at the list of Britain's richest people, and how many are of British descent, not many at all I can assure you, and they wouldn't think twice about taking ALL of their wealth elsewhere if we decided to clobber them with stupid high taxes.
No, I didn't want your opinion, I wanted to see if you knew the answer, you clearly don't so I don't think you really have an understanding of the whole thing.
It's very easy to start having a go at the "super rich" as you like to call them, but are they the ones to blame for this mess, no they're not, many have actually been busy as mostly entrepreneurs investing in this country throughout the financial turmoil. Not only are they paying personal tax, but their companies and businesses are employing people, paying corporation tax and contributing to the economy.
Whether you like it or not, they are bailing you out already.
The shocking thing is that public sector pensions are not paid out through and annuity as is the case with a private pension, but they are largely funded through council tax payment. So when you see all these ex-public sector pensioners, many of whom will have retired in their fifties up until recently, they are being kept alive through your council tax. Here is a freedom of information request to a council on the subject which is well worth a read and is actually quite funny: Council tax/pensions - a Freedom of Information request to Falkirk Council - WhatDoTheyKnow.
My biggest disrespect is towards civil servants who take early retirement and then take up another job in the public sector thus doing a younger person out of a job whilst claiming their first pension. I've seen a good few ex-coppers do this for example.
My source for the 5% figure came from the Office of National statistics May 2007; The effects of taxes and benefits on household incomes 2005-6 - table 3... so no, not the Guardian..
And as I said in my post, I didn't know the answer to why we are in this mess.. but it seems you do.. It's just got to be the public sector hasn't it?! It's all our fault.. and you accuse me of being influenced by what I read in the press...
If the public sector has got it so wrong, then why in 2007-08, when public-sector pensions had a net cost to the taxpayer of £4 billion, did private-sector pension relief cost the taxpayer £37.6 billion? ..
Hey Beanoir, if we have it so so good in the public sector, why don't you come over and join us on the bandwagon..? Oh hang on, I know, there's a simple answer isn't there... Money...